New 68 Taillight housing are finally out and on Ebay

[bull]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

[Charger-Bodie]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

the simple fact is that if the parts manufaturer doesnt make a profit the part will not continue to be produced , and i know the otherside of this arguement is that if they priced them cheaper tey would make more money by volume but i think if that were posible they would sell them for less to make the part successfull but some parts are just expensive to produce.

[BEAPARTS]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

I'm not sure I should step in here, I'll try and hopefully not get tromped on.  The reason why a lot of the parts from some of the other vender's is of low quality is the way they are made.  Many of those parts are hand made or spun casted in someones garage because the process of reproducing those parts correctly is very expensive.  The metals they use are very soft because they can be melted at a much lower temperature.  Potmetal and acrylics are difficult to work unless it's done at high tempatures and under pressure. Potmetal takes to the chroming process very well. 

For instance, the process for making the 68 charger tail light bezels:

1. We have a company that specializes in lazar scanning an original part and from that a 3D parametric solid model is developed.
2. From the solid model the machine drawing for the tool is developed with calculation of shrinkage based on the material and weight, in this case it's pot metal.
3.  Each bezel, do to the size of the piece, will have its own casting tool. (2-3,000 LB. tool each)
4. Once the tool is machined and all the casting ports are calculated for flow and put in, the tool is proto-typed.
5. The tool is put into a casting machine and a very small run of the part is made for test fitting.
6. If the tool needs modified, many sometimes they do, it will be fixed and the testing process continues until a good part.
7. Once the part is verified as a good part, the polishing of the tool begins which could take several weeks (acrylic lens tools are longer).
8. The tool is then put back in the machine for a production run.
9. Once the castings are made they are inspected and the bad ones are remelted, then the flashing is removed and the casting is hand polished getting ready for chrome.
10. After chromed the part goes to detailing which is when mounting holes are tapped and all the paint detail is completed and the part is ready to ship.

That's the simplified explanation of the process in a nut shell.

It is very expensive to reproduce the parts the same way they did back in the day.  Back then they ran thousands of the same part without removing the tool from the machine, we are doing several hundred (maybe).  Sure, if the market was there to sell the Comaro type volumes the price would be much lower but that's not realistic.  We are all living and breathing the dream and we own the best and lowest production muscle on the planet and I wouldn't have it any other way.   It's a struggle restoring these cars and finding quality parts.  I do all my own cars and I know the drama that we all face.

As far as gouging, I challenge anyone to go through the correct "process", without compromise, making these parts and selling the small mopar volumes at Comaro prices.

I'm not in this whole deal for the money, I have other companies that make that for me, don't get me wrong we will make a profit.

I'm a mopar knuckle head as bad as they get. I start the day here at B/E & A around 2am (working on my personal junk) until 8am then go to the other company till noon then I'm back here until at least 5pm Monday thru Friday. Saturday & Sunday it's 2am until 7am so I can get home and make breakfest for the family and do the kids football and soccer thing.  Ten year old tackle football is a riot, that's for another forum.

Anyone can call me at anytime for information or anything you may want to talk about, good or bad (love talking mopar).

Go easy on me guys, I usually don't post other than new product related and I'm very careful what is said as to not open the door to a public bashing which I'm afraid I have done.

Respectfully,

Michael C. Ross - OWNER
B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc.
www.beaparts.com
330-725-3990

[bull]

My purpose was not to bash anyone, my purpose was to make a point about the cost of these parts and how it makes it no easier for the average guy to finish his car whereas the rich guy just writes a check and is done with it.

Let me ask you this, is it not possible in your line of reasoning that instead of making a few hundred parts at $600 a pair you could make 2000 parts at $300 a pair and still come out ahead? I appreciate the work that goes into the initial casting work (because I have some experience with it) but once the castings are made and perfected that portion of the project no longer costs money. From that point on you are trying to make enough to break even, pay for all the startup costs and then start making a profit. What I'm getting at is why is your target production only a few hundred parts instead of a few thousand? Because I'm willing to bet that you make a helluva lot more sales at half the price and still maintain a similar or higher profit.

I'm not tryiing to tell you how to run your business. It's a question of genuine curiosity.

[BEAPARTS]

My purpose was not to bash anyone, my purpose was to make a point about the cost of these parts and how it makes it no easier for the average guy to finish his car whereas the rich guy just writes a check and is done with it.

Let me ask you this, is it not possible in your line of reasoning that instead of making a few hundred parts at $600 a pair you could make 2000 parts at $300 a pair and still come out ahead? I appreciate the work that goes into the initial casting work (because I have some experience with it) but once the castings are made and perfected that portion of the project no longer costs money. From that point on you are trying to make enough to break even, pay for all the startup costs and then start making a profit. What I'm getting at is why is your target production only a few hundred parts instead of aI'm not tryiing to tell you how to run your business. It's a question of genuine curiosity. few thousand? Because I'm willing to bet that you make a helluva lot more sales at half the price and still maintain a similar or higher profit.

Selling 2,000 of any reproduction part for a mopar is totally unrealistic, we are not going to make that many of any part and sit on 90% of them to get the cost down.  You might as well through them in the trash.  If you think that 2,000 is a realistic number, I'll sell that many to you at a 40% discount then you can sell them and make all the profits.  I would be more than happy to make exclusive parts for you just like we do for the Kramer Autos, Tonys Parts & all the clips for R/T Specialities and Finelines no problem. 

We have a pretty good feel for the reproduction parts market and the 68 Charger bezels were a stretch for us because it was very border line, at best, to sell enough volume for the available cars that needed them.  And your right, the parts we reproduce are geared to the most discriminating customers that want the absolute best part and that's what they are.  If, at the end of the day, price is the only issue with no complaints about quality we hit the mark.  All of us in this hobby have had enough of "it almost fits" on the few parts that are available.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good suppliers with quality parts and they typically cost more, there's a reason for that.  If you would like to go into detail of the "process" and the reproduction parts business plz call me, I would love to talk to you.

[TUFCAT]

I'm very impressed with that tactful explanation.  How many other companies are willing to share that much detailed information about their business plan with others.  Without a doubt, BEA parts is a class act.

[68charger383]

We all appreciate the efforts you make to repop these parts. Its just hard to throw down big money for the parts. We forget that after we pay you $2K-$3K for your parts, our cars are worth an extra $5K-$10K. In addition, the people who posted about the restoration of these parts stated that they were paying about the same price PG/BEA are charging to have their housings and bezels rechromed.

I also own a 68 Cougar and they do not repop very many parts for the car. A few are the same as a Mustang, but not very many. Its like the old days with that car, buying a crappy part for big money (now on ebay) because my part is a 4 and theirs is a 7...but still not a new part, just a little better than mine. I agree with the price complaints, but I'm just glad I have the option to buy it or not to if I want to.

I'm not trying to join in, just having that cougar makes me appreciate any part I have the option to buy.

[The70RT]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

[Charger-Bodie]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

maybe i missed something but were did you come up with 300 sets?

[The70RT]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

maybe i missed something but were did you come up with 300 sets?

I seen where bull was saying why make a few hundered so I was thinkin 300? Then the part maker said he don't want to sit on 90% of the ones they make. So he was quoting that on what bull said that he should make a couple thousand sets.....so 90% of 2K leaves 200....so maybe only 200 then?

[JR]

I know it's expensive to reproduce any piece from scratch.

I'm just glad there are companies here that are doing it. Just 5 years ago we didn't have near as many parts repoped and had to find 40 year old originals that weren't destroyed. I won't complain one bit about being able to pick up a catalog and order them now.

In this game you just have to pay to play. I'm a month behind in all my other bills, but my Charger finally drives again after 4 years. You just have to prioritize.

[68charger383]

There's some truth to what Bull is saying:

For example you can buy repops of the armrest bases for $30-$40 a pair and PG/BEA charges $99. Galen Glovier probably could not tell them apart when they are on the car and they appear to be similar in quality etc. So why are they charging two/three times as much? Especially when there is competition selling it for 1/3 their price? So they make $59/$69 over what some other guy is selling these for at a profit. I guess its like the beer guy at the stadium, either pay the $7 bucks for the beer  or stay sober, their the only game in town!

But unlike my Cougar, its nice to be able to buy the repopped part. On the Couagr Board they have a similar discussion, but its about the lack of parts and how they would pay anything for them. Here you go BEA, an untapped market!

[Charger-Bodie]

I know it's expensive to reproduce any piece from scratch.

I'm just glad there are companies here that are doing it. Just 5 years ago we didn't have near as many parts repoped and had to find 40 year old originals that weren't destroyed. I won't complain one bit about being able to pick up a catalog and order them now.

In this game you just have to pay to play. I'm a month behind in all my other bills, but my Charger finally drives again after 4 years. You just have to prioritize.

that a boy!!! thats the way it seems for alot of us in this hobby aka addiction self included !!!

[suntech]

There are a few things in this thread i just dont get!!! We agree on the fact that 1000 usd is a lot of money to normal working guys. (i am that too) !!                                            Somebody come up with a calculation that insinuate that somebody will be rich out of a couple of hundred taillights, not having a clue of what it actually cost to get them made.
Somebody think a set like that is just for "trailer queens", and a driver should be happy with a set restored ones, and so on!!
Nobody can make a living out of working for free!! I thought everybody knew that!!
Let us be happy that somebody is making parts. Nobody is forsing us to buy anything!! We can choose for ourselves!!!

My choice is to sell the parts i think will bee to much work to get up to the standard i want, and put in overtime, to pay the balance between them and the new ones!!

Just a couple of questions: Has anybody here on the forum sendt a set off for recroming?? I have no idea, but it will give us a indication of the price level, compared to bezels, WITHOUT lenses.

I called a well known recroming shop a few days ago, and ordered recroming for my bumpers. That will run in the ballpark of 1500 usd, for both. Does that mean that everybody that does that are stupid, since we can get aftermarket ones for app 700 usd a set!! If you want quality, it will always have a higher pricetag!!

[Judhudson]

I think the main question here is that.......

anybody plan to repro bezels for 69-70 taillights, and what would be a good price?

[Joshua]

I'll never be able to afford to buy these new bezels.....that kind of scratch will go to other things more important to me......I can't justify it for a car I "abuse"......
BUT, I think many guys with really nice cars will get these to make their car that much better.....any MAYBE, sell their old bezels on E-Bay, etc.....or.....to me.....

[suntech]

No problem Joshua! Make me an offer on my semidecent driver taillight assemblies!! you know the price i have to pay for the new ones!!

[Troy]

I have a great idea: pick any buy reproduction part made by more than one manufacturer and do an in depth comparison. This comparison should include the quality of materials used in construction, the construction process, fit and finish, price, and customer service from the manufacturer. You cannot compare strictly on price or you end up with a pile of parts that peel, flake, warp, and fit poorly - but it won't cost as much. I'd rather pay for a quality part that will last several years under normal use than get a deal on something that breaks during installation.

I just finished fighting with repro parts on the Barracuda and I can't say that I was real impressed. I'm not building a concourse car but I spent way too much effort trying to make parts fit they way the factory stuff did. Three out of four window cranks had holes that were oblong and too small for the supplied screws OR the hole was drilled in the wrong place. These were basically unusable so I put the old crusty ones back on. Also, the rubber knob was cheap, flimsy plastic that felt more like silly putty than hard rubber. I purchased the "good" door panels and they required several hours of modification to fit and the mold was poor so there are a lot of imperfections. Only about half of the holes lined up with the factory locations and I had to make new holes in my original metal to compensate. The rears were worse than the fronts and nearly half of the supplied screws were too short. I'm fairly certain that the screws aren't correct replacements any way but they looked better than my old rusty ones.  The armrest pads were oddly shaped, had flaws in the foam and covering, and were a different color than the door panels. I didn't even bother to install the dash cap. My "new" bumpers already started to discolor and the chrome was wavy to begin with. The headlight bezels had poor chrome and even worse masking of the black paint. The holes almost lined up but that might have something to do with my original grill not being perfect so I let it slide. The carpet fit but wasn't molded very closely so there seemed to be more wrinkles/bulges than necessary. There also wasn't nearly as much padding as the original. The headliner was flat (not molded) and nearly impossible to install without wrinkles. The seat hinge covers were obviously the wrong color although they fit just fine. My seat covers were pretty good but under close inspection had some cut/scraped vinyl and some seams that were crooked. My heater control cable was approximately an inch too long but the housing wasn't so it took a lot of adjustment before it worked and it's still difficult. The console woodgrain decal isn't quite the right shape but it's close enough and looks much better then a torn/worn one. I went through an entire box of marker lenses at the Mopar Nationals and couldn't find *any* nice enough to spend my money on. Not a big fan of the rear package tray. In total, I probably have just over $2,300 in reproduction/replacement parts on the car and the only thing that looks great and fit on the first try was the auto pistol grip handle which isn't stock to begin with.

The car definitely looks better but I'd have willingly spent another $1,000 for higher quality parts. I'll have the opportunity to compare some parts that are duplicated through multiple manufacturers over the winter and I'd like to hash them out before spending loads of cash on the Charger. Sadly, many parts are only made by one manufacturer so you have to take what you can get - or try to find usable originals. It makes sense to support companies willing to make things "right" but I know many people only shop based on what's affordable. As long as that's the case, there will be companies that are happy with "close enough" reproductions.

I'm not singling out any companies in particular here - just posting my thoughts based on my experiences. In the end, buy whatever works with your project but be able to live with the decision.

Troy

[TUFCAT]

Troy Quote:

In the end, buy whatever works with your project but be able to live with the decision.

Finally!!!  Thanks Troy,  I was waiting (and hoping) for one of your well phrased, well thought out comments. You put this into perspective better than I could've ever said it!  I would only add to that... the increased resale value and show appeal. 

[Troy]

I'd have to disagree a bit: if you want increased value buy NOS (and keep it in a box until you want to sell the car). If you drive then who cares about show appeal or value because stuff will get beat up. People have a hard time picking my car apart while it's rolling and even when I'm stopped I'm usually the one pointing out the deficiencies.

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

[The70RT]

I guess time will tell. No one will know how good any newly repopped part will hold up. I just hope for that much cash everyone gets what they paid for. If I had a near show 68 I may go for it......but if I didn't need them now and I was in the restoring process I would wait to see how everyone likes them later down the road. If I had just a driver I would just get a driver set. 

[Charger-Bodie]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

[BrianShaughnessy]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

[Charger-Bodie]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

exactlly