New 68 Taillight housing are finally out and on Ebay

[68charger383]

I was waiting for these to finally pop up. Looks like there finally here via P&G parts..buy it now $599 (ouch) its $699 on P&G's website. Hopefully they'll have a complete  housing/bezel/lens assembly package for a discount, otherwise its

$599 for the 2 housings + $235 for the 4 bezels + $155 for the 4 tail light lenses..thats $998 + you'll have to find a reverse lens for a complete light assembly !

Every so often P&G does a regular ebay bid to own auction without the buy it now...but numbnuts still bid the items to $20 or $30 less then the normally listed buy it now price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-68-Mopar-Charger-Taillight-Housing_W0QQitemZ120160561338QQihZ002QQcategoryZ140741QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://moparplus.com/product_info.php?cPath=65&products_id=497

[Brock Samson]

   each!!! 

[68charger383]

$599 for a pair (left side/right side) of the housings. $998 is the complete left/right side minus the reverse light lens.

[The70RT]

Kinda glad I got a 70

[Brock Samson]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

[Charger-Bodie]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

thats why its more expensive, cause its worth it!! 68s rule

[bull]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

thats why its more expensive, cause its worth it!! 68s rule

I don't know about it being worth it. No offense to the BEAParts guy or PG Classic but this part is geared toward the Hemi car, Barrett-Jackson, white-collar, flipper-type guys who never drive their cars but are pulling down a few hundred thousand a year. I'm not going to hand over a mortgage payment for new taillight assemblies anytime soon, I'll just have to make due with the ones I have. It would take me a good month and a half of working overtime to come up with that sort of expendable cash.

[Sinister68]

...this part is geared toward the Hemi car, Barrett-Jackson, white-collar, flipper-type guys who never drive their cars but are pulling down a few
hundred thousand a year.

...Or the single mid-30's guys like myself who don't have a family to feed (and can't find a high quality used pair)!   

I just got mine from PG Classic this past week and they look worlds better than my old pair that I spent an entire weekend on. 

[472 R/T SE]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

thats why its more expensive, cause its worth it!! 68s rule

Everybody knows, when it comes to second generation they saved the best for last. 

[The70RT]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

thats why its more expensive, cause its worth it!! 68s rule

Everybody knows, when it comes to second generation they saved the best for last. 

You got that right. Plus everyone is less likely to make it a GL. In a front end fender bender the big loop bumper takes the brunt more

[suntech]

I think the taillight assembly is a fair deal ! ofcause it is alot ot money, but go to an Audi or Merceders dealer, and ask the price on a set of taillight assemblies for them.
I guess you would be in chock!!! At least here in Norway, something like that would be 2-3 K usd!! But i guess you guys are spoiled, with prices, and we in Europe are stupid, accepting our prices!! BTW we pay app. 8 bucks a gallom for gas!!!!

[TUFCAT]

There are a lot of really nicely restored cars that need these, and owners willing to pay the price for these just to be competitive with other high-caliber restorations. Of course, if your car is a driver, racer, or occasional lawn show participant this may be too much money.  I always appreciate when owners take the extra time and expense with exterior trim and other fine details found on such "stand-out" cars, and these bezels are no exception.     

[Charger-Bodie]

yeah too bad it ain't a '69.. 

thats why its more expensive, cause its worth it!! 68s rule

Everybody knows, when it comes to second generation they saved the best for last. 

You got that right. Plus everyone is less likely to make it a GL. In a front end fender bender the big loop bumper takes the brunt more

they should have used 70s for the generall lee ......IT ALREADY HAS A PUSH BUMPER.

[tommymac]

After everthing else Mabey later,,,,much later.

[bull]

There are a lot of really nicely restored cars that need these, and owners willing to pay the price for these just to be competitive with other high-caliber restorations. Of course, if your car is a driver, racer, or occasional lawn show participant this may be too much money.  I always appreciate when owners take the extra time and expense with exterior trim and other fine details found on such "stand-out" cars, and these bezels are no exception.     

Sure, if they've got that kind of expendable money. But there are also some guys I know with very nice cars who've had them for years, have only spent a few thousand on the resoration and don't see the value in spending 1/5 of their resto cost on just taillights. These taillight assemblies definitely sound like a trailer queen item to me. At any rate, I can bet you that at a price of 'one large' everyone is going to stop and think about it for a while. There won't be too many people sending in a $1,000 check without a little reflection on the matter.

[Khyron]

I'm going to my garage and kissing my 69's tail lights 

[bull]

I'm going to my garage and kissing my 69's tail lights 

Right. Meanwhile, you guys are always griping about bent up I-pieces.

[Charger-Bodie]

There are a lot of really nicely restored cars that need these, and owners willing to pay the price for these just to be competitive with other high-caliber restorations. Of course, if your car is a driver, racer, or occasional lawn show participant this may be too much money.  I always appreciate when owners take the extra time and expense with exterior trim and other fine details found on such "stand-out" cars, and these bezels are no exception.     

Sure, if they've got that kind of expendable money. But there are also some guys I know with very nice cars who've had them for years, have only spent a few thousand on the resoration and don't see the value in spending 1/5 of their resto cost on just taillights. These taillight assemblies definitely sound like a trailer queen item to me. At any rate, I can bet you that at a price of 'one large' everyone is going to stop and think about it for a while. There won't be too many people sending in a $1,000 check without a little reflection on the matter.

GEEZ Bull to be that tight and have a charger is not a very good combo! WE ALL GET IT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BUY THESE !! enuf is enuf !! why is it youre personal mission to be the new tail light vidulanty ? some of us will buy some wont , leave it at that.

[Charger-Bodie]

PG Classic & B/E & A work together making their restoration parts.  It is my understanding that there are 2 runs of each part, one with the Penta Star and one without, B/E & A does all the licensed parts with all the markings.  The licensed parts do cost a little more because of the licensing fees they have to pay.  PG is in Canada and B/E & A is here in the US, both companies are quality and the parts are made from the same tools.  Call Mike at B/E & A if you need any additional info, he loves talking Mopar since he is a Mopar guy like us.

B/E & A has started a thread for a group buy for the 68 charger tail light assemblies and im also going to post this to the group buy thread too.

i just wanted to post this to clear up the confusion about BE/A and pgclassics!!

[TUFCAT]

Both companies are making some very professional looking authentic restoration parts    - probably the two best in the industry!! 

[bull]

There are a lot of really nicely restored cars that need these, and owners willing to pay the price for these just to be competitive with other high-caliber restorations. Of course, if your car is a driver, racer, or occasional lawn show participant this may be too much money.  I always appreciate when owners take the extra time and expense with exterior trim and other fine details found on such "stand-out" cars, and these bezels are no exception.     

Sure, if they've got that kind of expendable money. But there are also some guys I know with very nice cars who've had them for years, have only spent a few thousand on the resoration and don't see the value in spending 1/5 of their resto cost on just taillights. These taillight assemblies definitely sound like a trailer queen item to me. At any rate, I can bet you that at a price of 'one large' everyone is going to stop and think about it for a while. There won't be too many people sending in a $1,000 check without a little reflection on the matter.

GEEZ Bull to be that tight and have a charger is not a very good combo! WE ALL GET IT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BUY THESE !! enuf is enuf !! why is it youre personal mission to be the new tail light vidulanty ? some of us will buy some wont , leave it at that.

GEEZ 1hot68 to be that tight with these parts guys makes me wonder if you're in with them somehow. WE ALL GET IT YOU ARE DOING ADS FOR THEM ON THIS SITE !! enuf is enuf !! why is it your personal mission to be the new PG Classic spokesman ? some of us think we're getting gouged by parts reproducers some dont , leave it at that.

Listen, If I think something is priced too high I'm going to talk about it. This is not a format for PG Classic to advertise (free I might add) and expect no rebuttals, this is a discussion format. I have as much right to post three times about how these parts are too expensive as you or any other guy has to post three times about how they're awesome and priced just right. And to say "being tight and owning a Charger is not a very good combo" certainly proves my point, don't you think? It's just too bad that you guys feel you have to join the gouge-fest and do what seems a lot like taking advantage of people. By the way, I don't equate 'being tight' with being smart with my money. That's a little bit like telling the US Army it's being too tight because it doesn't want to pay $3,000 for toilet seats any more. But hey, this is America. If you guys want to charge twice as much and sell half as many that's your business. If I were you guys maybe I'd do the same but I'm not, so I'm on the side of the not-so-rich guys who just want to drive their dream cars because I'm one of them.

[TUFCAT]

Its okay Bull, just realize that some people are more picky (and willing to allocate more money) to their pride and joy. 

[bull]

Its okay Bull, just realize that some people are more picky (and willing to allocate more money) to their pride and joy. 

I think you mean able to allocate more money. Willing has nothing to do with it in my case. And I'm willing to bet I'm a lot more picky than you could imagine.

[TUFCAT]

I think you mean able to allocate more money.

That's exactly what I meant - well put.   

[Charger-Bodie]

There are a lot of really nicely restored cars that need these, and owners willing to pay the price for these just to be competitive with other high-caliber restorations. Of course, if your car is a driver, racer, or occasional lawn show participant this may be too much money.  I always appreciate when owners take the extra time and expense with exterior trim and other fine details found on such "stand-out" cars, and these bezels are no exception.     

Sure, if they've got that kind of expendable money. But there are also some guys I know with very nice cars who've had them for years, have only spent a few thousand on the resoration and don't see the value in spending 1/5 of their resto cost on just taillights. These taillight assemblies definitely sound like a trailer queen item to me. At any rate, I can bet you that at a price of 'one large' everyone is going to stop and think about it for a while. There won't be too many people sending in a $1,000 check without a little reflection on the matter.

GEEZ Bull to be that tight and have a charger is not a very good combo! WE ALL GET IT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BUY THESE !! enuf is enuf !! why is it youre personal mission to be the new tail light vidulanty ? some of us will buy some wont , leave it at that.

GEEZ 1hot68 to be that tight with these parts guys makes me wonder if you're in with them somehow. WE ALL GET IT YOU ARE DOING ADS FOR THEM ON THIS SITE !! enuf is enuf !! why is it your personal mission to be the new PG Classic spokesman ? some of us think we're getting gouged by parts reproducers some dont , leave it at that.

Listen, If I think something is priced too high I'm going to talk about it. This is not a format for PG Classic to advertise (free I might add) and expect no rebuttals, this is a discussion format. I have as much right to post three times about how these parts are too expensive as you or any other guy has to post three times about how they're awesome and priced just right. And to say "being tight and owning a Charger is not a very good combo" certainly proves my point, don't you think? It's just too bad that you guys feel you have to join the gouge-fest and do what seems a lot like taking advantage of people. By the way, I don't equate 'being tight' with being smart with my money. That's a little bit like telling the US Army it's being too tight because it doesn't want to pay $3,000 for toilet seats any more. But hey, this is America. If you guys want to charge twice as much and sell half as many that's your business. If I were you guys maybe I'd do the same but I'm not, so I'm on the side of the not-so-rich guys who just want to drive their dream cars because I'm one of them.

Bull I do not work for pg or BE/A  BUT ive been in this hobby for a long time and for the longest part of that time NOBODY repoped ANY decent parts for mopar and i for one am just glad that someone finally is making VERY  high quality parts for OUR cars not just for rustangs and chovels . and i for one would like them to survive and keep bringing out more parts for the best Muscle cars ever!! PERIOD

[bull]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

[Charger-Bodie]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

the simple fact is that if the parts manufaturer doesnt make a profit the part will not continue to be produced , and i know the otherside of this arguement is that if they priced them cheaper tey would make more money by volume but i think if that were posible they would sell them for less to make the part successfull but some parts are just expensive to produce.

[BEAPARTS]

I agree. I am very happy our demands are being met in the parts dept. Now I wish our demands would be met in the price dept.

I'm not sure I should step in here, I'll try and hopefully not get tromped on.  The reason why a lot of the parts from some of the other vender's is of low quality is the way they are made.  Many of those parts are hand made or spun casted in someones garage because the process of reproducing those parts correctly is very expensive.  The metals they use are very soft because they can be melted at a much lower temperature.  Potmetal and acrylics are difficult to work unless it's done at high tempatures and under pressure. Potmetal takes to the chroming process very well. 

For instance, the process for making the 68 charger tail light bezels:

1. We have a company that specializes in lazar scanning an original part and from that a 3D parametric solid model is developed.
2. From the solid model the machine drawing for the tool is developed with calculation of shrinkage based on the material and weight, in this case it's pot metal.
3.  Each bezel, do to the size of the piece, will have its own casting tool. (2-3,000 LB. tool each)
4. Once the tool is machined and all the casting ports are calculated for flow and put in, the tool is proto-typed.
5. The tool is put into a casting machine and a very small run of the part is made for test fitting.
6. If the tool needs modified, many sometimes they do, it will be fixed and the testing process continues until a good part.
7. Once the part is verified as a good part, the polishing of the tool begins which could take several weeks (acrylic lens tools are longer).
8. The tool is then put back in the machine for a production run.
9. Once the castings are made they are inspected and the bad ones are remelted, then the flashing is removed and the casting is hand polished getting ready for chrome.
10. After chromed the part goes to detailing which is when mounting holes are tapped and all the paint detail is completed and the part is ready to ship.

That's the simplified explanation of the process in a nut shell.

It is very expensive to reproduce the parts the same way they did back in the day.  Back then they ran thousands of the same part without removing the tool from the machine, we are doing several hundred (maybe).  Sure, if the market was there to sell the Comaro type volumes the price would be much lower but that's not realistic.  We are all living and breathing the dream and we own the best and lowest production muscle on the planet and I wouldn't have it any other way.   It's a struggle restoring these cars and finding quality parts.  I do all my own cars and I know the drama that we all face.

As far as gouging, I challenge anyone to go through the correct "process", without compromise, making these parts and selling the small mopar volumes at Comaro prices.

I'm not in this whole deal for the money, I have other companies that make that for me, don't get me wrong we will make a profit.

I'm a mopar knuckle head as bad as they get. I start the day here at B/E & A around 2am (working on my personal junk) until 8am then go to the other company till noon then I'm back here until at least 5pm Monday thru Friday. Saturday & Sunday it's 2am until 7am so I can get home and make breakfest for the family and do the kids football and soccer thing.  Ten year old tackle football is a riot, that's for another forum.

Anyone can call me at anytime for information or anything you may want to talk about, good or bad (love talking mopar).

Go easy on me guys, I usually don't post other than new product related and I'm very careful what is said as to not open the door to a public bashing which I'm afraid I have done.

Respectfully,

Michael C. Ross - OWNER
B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc.
www.beaparts.com
330-725-3990

[bull]

My purpose was not to bash anyone, my purpose was to make a point about the cost of these parts and how it makes it no easier for the average guy to finish his car whereas the rich guy just writes a check and is done with it.

Let me ask you this, is it not possible in your line of reasoning that instead of making a few hundred parts at $600 a pair you could make 2000 parts at $300 a pair and still come out ahead? I appreciate the work that goes into the initial casting work (because I have some experience with it) but once the castings are made and perfected that portion of the project no longer costs money. From that point on you are trying to make enough to break even, pay for all the startup costs and then start making a profit. What I'm getting at is why is your target production only a few hundred parts instead of a few thousand? Because I'm willing to bet that you make a helluva lot more sales at half the price and still maintain a similar or higher profit.

I'm not tryiing to tell you how to run your business. It's a question of genuine curiosity.

[BEAPARTS]

My purpose was not to bash anyone, my purpose was to make a point about the cost of these parts and how it makes it no easier for the average guy to finish his car whereas the rich guy just writes a check and is done with it.

Let me ask you this, is it not possible in your line of reasoning that instead of making a few hundred parts at $600 a pair you could make 2000 parts at $300 a pair and still come out ahead? I appreciate the work that goes into the initial casting work (because I have some experience with it) but once the castings are made and perfected that portion of the project no longer costs money. From that point on you are trying to make enough to break even, pay for all the startup costs and then start making a profit. What I'm getting at is why is your target production only a few hundred parts instead of aI'm not tryiing to tell you how to run your business. It's a question of genuine curiosity. few thousand? Because I'm willing to bet that you make a helluva lot more sales at half the price and still maintain a similar or higher profit.

Selling 2,000 of any reproduction part for a mopar is totally unrealistic, we are not going to make that many of any part and sit on 90% of them to get the cost down.  You might as well through them in the trash.  If you think that 2,000 is a realistic number, I'll sell that many to you at a 40% discount then you can sell them and make all the profits.  I would be more than happy to make exclusive parts for you just like we do for the Kramer Autos, Tonys Parts & all the clips for R/T Specialities and Finelines no problem. 

We have a pretty good feel for the reproduction parts market and the 68 Charger bezels were a stretch for us because it was very border line, at best, to sell enough volume for the available cars that needed them.  And your right, the parts we reproduce are geared to the most discriminating customers that want the absolute best part and that's what they are.  If, at the end of the day, price is the only issue with no complaints about quality we hit the mark.  All of us in this hobby have had enough of "it almost fits" on the few parts that are available.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good suppliers with quality parts and they typically cost more, there's a reason for that.  If you would like to go into detail of the "process" and the reproduction parts business plz call me, I would love to talk to you.

[TUFCAT]

I'm very impressed with that tactful explanation.  How many other companies are willing to share that much detailed information about their business plan with others.  Without a doubt, BEA parts is a class act.

[68charger383]

We all appreciate the efforts you make to repop these parts. Its just hard to throw down big money for the parts. We forget that after we pay you $2K-$3K for your parts, our cars are worth an extra $5K-$10K. In addition, the people who posted about the restoration of these parts stated that they were paying about the same price PG/BEA are charging to have their housings and bezels rechromed.

I also own a 68 Cougar and they do not repop very many parts for the car. A few are the same as a Mustang, but not very many. Its like the old days with that car, buying a crappy part for big money (now on ebay) because my part is a 4 and theirs is a 7...but still not a new part, just a little better than mine. I agree with the price complaints, but I'm just glad I have the option to buy it or not to if I want to.

I'm not trying to join in, just having that cougar makes me appreciate any part I have the option to buy.

[The70RT]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

[Charger-Bodie]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

maybe i missed something but were did you come up with 300 sets?

[The70RT]

Lets see........300 sets at 900 bucks is like a quarter million dollars 

maybe i missed something but were did you come up with 300 sets?

I seen where bull was saying why make a few hundered so I was thinkin 300? Then the part maker said he don't want to sit on 90% of the ones they make. So he was quoting that on what bull said that he should make a couple thousand sets.....so 90% of 2K leaves 200....so maybe only 200 then?

[JR]

I know it's expensive to reproduce any piece from scratch.

I'm just glad there are companies here that are doing it. Just 5 years ago we didn't have near as many parts repoped and had to find 40 year old originals that weren't destroyed. I won't complain one bit about being able to pick up a catalog and order them now.

In this game you just have to pay to play. I'm a month behind in all my other bills, but my Charger finally drives again after 4 years. You just have to prioritize.

[68charger383]

There's some truth to what Bull is saying:

For example you can buy repops of the armrest bases for $30-$40 a pair and PG/BEA charges $99. Galen Glovier probably could not tell them apart when they are on the car and they appear to be similar in quality etc. So why are they charging two/three times as much? Especially when there is competition selling it for 1/3 their price? So they make $59/$69 over what some other guy is selling these for at a profit. I guess its like the beer guy at the stadium, either pay the $7 bucks for the beer  or stay sober, their the only game in town!

But unlike my Cougar, its nice to be able to buy the repopped part. On the Couagr Board they have a similar discussion, but its about the lack of parts and how they would pay anything for them. Here you go BEA, an untapped market!

[Charger-Bodie]

I know it's expensive to reproduce any piece from scratch.

I'm just glad there are companies here that are doing it. Just 5 years ago we didn't have near as many parts repoped and had to find 40 year old originals that weren't destroyed. I won't complain one bit about being able to pick up a catalog and order them now.

In this game you just have to pay to play. I'm a month behind in all my other bills, but my Charger finally drives again after 4 years. You just have to prioritize.

that a boy!!! thats the way it seems for alot of us in this hobby aka addiction self included !!!

[suntech]

There are a few things in this thread i just dont get!!! We agree on the fact that 1000 usd is a lot of money to normal working guys. (i am that too) !!                                            Somebody come up with a calculation that insinuate that somebody will be rich out of a couple of hundred taillights, not having a clue of what it actually cost to get them made.
Somebody think a set like that is just for "trailer queens", and a driver should be happy with a set restored ones, and so on!!
Nobody can make a living out of working for free!! I thought everybody knew that!!
Let us be happy that somebody is making parts. Nobody is forsing us to buy anything!! We can choose for ourselves!!!

My choice is to sell the parts i think will bee to much work to get up to the standard i want, and put in overtime, to pay the balance between them and the new ones!!

Just a couple of questions: Has anybody here on the forum sendt a set off for recroming?? I have no idea, but it will give us a indication of the price level, compared to bezels, WITHOUT lenses.

I called a well known recroming shop a few days ago, and ordered recroming for my bumpers. That will run in the ballpark of 1500 usd, for both. Does that mean that everybody that does that are stupid, since we can get aftermarket ones for app 700 usd a set!! If you want quality, it will always have a higher pricetag!!

[Judhudson]

I think the main question here is that.......

anybody plan to repro bezels for 69-70 taillights, and what would be a good price?

[Joshua]

I'll never be able to afford to buy these new bezels.....that kind of scratch will go to other things more important to me......I can't justify it for a car I "abuse"......
BUT, I think many guys with really nice cars will get these to make their car that much better.....any MAYBE, sell their old bezels on E-Bay, etc.....or.....to me.....

[suntech]

No problem Joshua! Make me an offer on my semidecent driver taillight assemblies!! you know the price i have to pay for the new ones!!

[Troy]

I have a great idea: pick any buy reproduction part made by more than one manufacturer and do an in depth comparison. This comparison should include the quality of materials used in construction, the construction process, fit and finish, price, and customer service from the manufacturer. You cannot compare strictly on price or you end up with a pile of parts that peel, flake, warp, and fit poorly - but it won't cost as much. I'd rather pay for a quality part that will last several years under normal use than get a deal on something that breaks during installation.

I just finished fighting with repro parts on the Barracuda and I can't say that I was real impressed. I'm not building a concourse car but I spent way too much effort trying to make parts fit they way the factory stuff did. Three out of four window cranks had holes that were oblong and too small for the supplied screws OR the hole was drilled in the wrong place. These were basically unusable so I put the old crusty ones back on. Also, the rubber knob was cheap, flimsy plastic that felt more like silly putty than hard rubber. I purchased the "good" door panels and they required several hours of modification to fit and the mold was poor so there are a lot of imperfections. Only about half of the holes lined up with the factory locations and I had to make new holes in my original metal to compensate. The rears were worse than the fronts and nearly half of the supplied screws were too short. I'm fairly certain that the screws aren't correct replacements any way but they looked better than my old rusty ones.  The armrest pads were oddly shaped, had flaws in the foam and covering, and were a different color than the door panels. I didn't even bother to install the dash cap. My "new" bumpers already started to discolor and the chrome was wavy to begin with. The headlight bezels had poor chrome and even worse masking of the black paint. The holes almost lined up but that might have something to do with my original grill not being perfect so I let it slide. The carpet fit but wasn't molded very closely so there seemed to be more wrinkles/bulges than necessary. There also wasn't nearly as much padding as the original. The headliner was flat (not molded) and nearly impossible to install without wrinkles. The seat hinge covers were obviously the wrong color although they fit just fine. My seat covers were pretty good but under close inspection had some cut/scraped vinyl and some seams that were crooked. My heater control cable was approximately an inch too long but the housing wasn't so it took a lot of adjustment before it worked and it's still difficult. The console woodgrain decal isn't quite the right shape but it's close enough and looks much better then a torn/worn one. I went through an entire box of marker lenses at the Mopar Nationals and couldn't find *any* nice enough to spend my money on. Not a big fan of the rear package tray. In total, I probably have just over $2,300 in reproduction/replacement parts on the car and the only thing that looks great and fit on the first try was the auto pistol grip handle which isn't stock to begin with.

The car definitely looks better but I'd have willingly spent another $1,000 for higher quality parts. I'll have the opportunity to compare some parts that are duplicated through multiple manufacturers over the winter and I'd like to hash them out before spending loads of cash on the Charger. Sadly, many parts are only made by one manufacturer so you have to take what you can get - or try to find usable originals. It makes sense to support companies willing to make things "right" but I know many people only shop based on what's affordable. As long as that's the case, there will be companies that are happy with "close enough" reproductions.

I'm not singling out any companies in particular here - just posting my thoughts based on my experiences. In the end, buy whatever works with your project but be able to live with the decision.

Troy

[TUFCAT]

Troy Quote:

In the end, buy whatever works with your project but be able to live with the decision.

Finally!!!  Thanks Troy,  I was waiting (and hoping) for one of your well phrased, well thought out comments. You put this into perspective better than I could've ever said it!  I would only add to that... the increased resale value and show appeal. 

[Troy]

I'd have to disagree a bit: if you want increased value buy NOS (and keep it in a box until you want to sell the car). If you drive then who cares about show appeal or value because stuff will get beat up. People have a hard time picking my car apart while it's rolling and even when I'm stopped I'm usually the one pointing out the deficiencies.

Troy

[BrianShaughnessy]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

[The70RT]

I guess time will tell. No one will know how good any newly repopped part will hold up. I just hope for that much cash everyone gets what they paid for. If I had a near show 68 I may go for it......but if I didn't need them now and I was in the restoring process I would wait to see how everyone likes them later down the road. If I had just a driver I would just get a driver set. 

[Charger-Bodie]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

[BrianShaughnessy]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

[Charger-Bodie]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

EASY THUNDER!!!

exactlly

[bull]

Selling 2,000 of any reproduction part for a mopar is totally unrealistic, we are not going to make that many of any part and sit on 90% of them to get the cost down.  You might as well through them in the trash.  If you think that 2,000 is a realistic number, I'll sell that many to you at a 40% discount then you can sell them and make all the profits.  I would be more than happy to make exclusive parts for you just like we do for the Kramer Autos, Tonys Parts & all the clips for R/T Specialities and Finelines no problem. 

We have a pretty good feel for the reproduction parts market and the 68 Charger bezels were a stretch for us because it was very border line, at best, to sell enough volume for the available cars that needed them.  And your right, the parts we reproduce are geared to the most discriminating customers that want the absolute best part and that's what they are.  If, at the end of the day, price is the only issue with no complaints about quality we hit the mark.  All of us in this hobby have had enough of "it almost fits" on the few parts that are available.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good suppliers with quality parts and they typically cost more, there's a reason for that.  If you would like to go into detail of the "process" and the reproduction parts business plz call me, I would love to talk to you.

I just picked a random number but please tell me why 2,000 is too many? There were 74,886 Chargers made in 1968 and you're saying making this part for roughly 3% of them is totally unrealistic? You're saying that less than 1% is what you're looking at for production? Can you understand why that number seems small to me? And how much does it cost you to reproduce one of these taillight bezels? $50, $100, $200? I'm willing to bet it's less than $50.

Oh well. I'm tired of arguing about it. Sorry I'm not one of these people who just automatically heaps praise upon every manufacturer of reproduction Charger parts and as usual it seems most of the others who are posting about are happy as hell to pay too much for something new and shiney that fits a Charger.

[TUFCAT]

   I think we got your point..... You're not going to buy these.  Let's move on.

[Troy]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

Yeah, but not everyone with an opinion posts which makes it hard to get a real feel for the market. We only had a couple of people respond about the 69 grill trim but over 30 sets sold in the group buy. After the group buy only two people responded so I'm assuming there were no problems. It was almost the same deal with the vacuum hoses if I remember correctly.

One other thing to note: nothing against the members here but most of the guys with unlimited funds don't hang out on internet forums (except maybe that Viper one  ). That means our members are usually budget constrained and do have to make informed decisions. Nothing sucks worse than spending most - if not all - of your budget on a substandard part. If money is not an issue then I don't imagine there's much to cry about except the loss of a few points during judging (if the car ever leaves the garage).

Troy

[Charger-Bodie]

After reading all this nonsense      it makes perfect sense for me that PG/BEA worries about making 69 taillight bezels and stops work on 68 only parts   

Yeah, but not everyone with an opinion posts which makes it hard to get a real feel for the market. We only had a couple of people respond about the 69 grill trim but over 30 sets sold in the group buy. After the group buy only two people responded so I'm assuming there were no problems. It was almost the same deal with the vacuum hoses if I remember correctly.

One other thing to note: nothing against the members here but most of the guys with unlimited funds don't hang out on internet forums (except maybe that Viper one  ). That means our members are usually budget constrained and do have to make informed decisions. Nothing sucks worse than spending most - if not all - of your budget on a substandard part. If money is not an issue then I don't imagine there's much to cry about except the loss of a few points during judging (if the car ever leaves the garage).

Troy

i agree with most of that BUT my car will have these lights and it is rotiserie restored , but i drive the hell out of it ! i put over 1000 miles on it this summer and hope for another 500 miles yet this fall. im not rich like most of us here but i have 1 hobby and its my  ONE charger and i want it to be the best it possibly can be and and when i take it to a show and beat trailered in cars ( twice this summer out of three all mopar shows i got 1st place) and then drive past them while there loading up there queens. .........point is save youre pennies and buy the best parts available and you will be happier with the end result and most likely wont have to do it twice. and if you are happy with what you have then thats great too .

PS i myself have a advatage over some of the people here that allows me to spend more on parts etc. because i own my own resto shop and dont have to hire the body or mechanical work out and as we all know that takes a big chunk of ging.

[The70RT]

Yep... you pretty much summed it up.

[Charger-Bodie]

Yep... you pretty much summed it up.

who are you refering to and what summed it up?

[The70RT]

What I meant was you was pretty much dead on about the whole deal. In other words "you make sense"

[Charger-Bodie]

What I meant was you was pretty much dead on about the whole deal. In other words "you make sense"

gotcha thanks.

[HeavyFuel]

There are a few things in this thread i just dont get!!! We agree on the fact that 1000 usd is a lot of money to normal working guys. (i am that too) !!                                            Somebody come up with a calculation that insinuate that somebody will be rich out of a couple of hundred taillights, not having a clue of what it actually cost to get them made.
Somebody think a set like that is just for "trailer queens", and a driver should be happy with a set restored ones, and so on!!
Nobody can make a living out of working for free!! I thought everybody knew that!!
Let us be happy that somebody is making parts. Nobody is forsing us to buy anything!! We can choose for ourselves!!!

My choice is to sell the parts i think will bee to much work to get up to the standard i want, and put in overtime, to pay the balance between them and the new ones!!

Just a couple of questions: Has anybody here on the forum sendt a set off for recroming?? I have no idea, but it will give us a indication of the price level, compared to bezels, WITHOUT lenses.

I called a well known recroming shop a few days ago, and ordered recroming for my bumpers. That will run in the ballpark of 1500 usd, for both. Does that mean that everybody that does that are stupid, since we can get aftermarket ones for app 700 usd a set!! If you want quality, it will always have a higher pricetag!!

I sent mine off for re-chroming in June 05, to Jon Wright's Custom Chrome Plating. 

6 pieces (two housings, 4 round parts) = $600.00. (plus shipping) 

The chrome is "holy crap" super nice, but not included is the flat black paint details, or the silvery argent type stuff; I get to put that on myself.  My bumpers got new show chrome for $600, plus $75 each for the guards. (Fargo Bumper, who send them off to Brienard, MN I believe)= $900

But how many options does a guy really have?  After the car gets a 7-8 grand paint job, be dammed if I'm going to put tired old chrome on.
Thank God my mirrors, trim and side markers are nice.

I priced put new headlight lenses  for my '98 Grand Caravan.  About $250 for a set.  And they aren't shiney.

[bull]

  I think we got your point..... You're not going to buy these.  Let's move on.

That's not my point, Tufcat, and that's what's a little annoying about this thread. You and a few others apparently think my goal is just to be a pain in the ass but what I'm trying to do is question the maker of this part (how often do you have that chance) and maybe lobby for a lower price or at least find out why it costs what it does. I'm pretty sure it's a futile effort but I'm not one to just lay down and accept whatever I'm told if it sounds off kilter. If you're the type who just accepts everything at face value that's fine but there are people in the world who don't operate that way. And sometimes people like you have them to thank for lower prices.

Maybe I will buy these housings, I don't know yet. My point is that I think it's foolish for people to just accept whatever price is put on their parts without so much as asking what goes into that decision, especially when we have this kind of opportunity to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.

[TUFCAT]

I'm cool with that.... and just for the record, I don't want anyone to think we are arguing, we're just having a spirited dabate   The was no mud slinging here - just a group of guys with different opinions    

[bull]

I'm cool with that.... and just for the record, I don't want anyone to think we are arguing, we're just having a spirited dabate   The was no mud slinging here - just a group of guys with different opinions    

Right. And after a couple PMs to Mike at BE&A I think I finally figured out what is going on in my head with all the reproduction stuff. In a nutshell, I'm afraid it's going to go away once those who reproduce the stuff have decided they've made the bulk of the money they're going to make off it. I don't know for sure but it sounds as if Mike is saying that these housings are going to be a limited-run item, meaning PG Classic will produce a certain number (say 500 for example) and then assume that's about as many as they can safely make to turn a profit before the orders drop to a trickle. It's the same concern I  have with pretty much all the good parts I see hitting the market right now from PG Classic and other producers/vendors, will the parts be there when myself and a whole bunch of other guys finally get to the point where we can afford them? I've saved about half the money I need to paint my car but do I use that money now to buy a console kit, taillight housings and the reproduction dash plastic because it's not going to be available two years from now? I just don't know. Does anyone know? Will we all be fighting over what's left of PG Classic's reproduction taillight housings, console lids and top plates on Ebay in 2010? I just have to wonder if this stuff is going to be around after all the rich trailer queen owners are done writing checks.

[BEAPARTS]

It's nothing more than economics, like I explained in the PM to you Bull, money cost money.  If you have an investment cost, which equates to purely cash out, and that amount of money sits idol past the profitable investment time period based on selling price then that part either isn't made again or the retail price goes up to cover that cost of money.  Odds are, the price won't go up and the part won't be made again. 

If you have a company that made widgets and the lowest production number of parts you could run was 100 and you offered that wedget in 3 different colors (say red, white and blue) and 90% of the sales were the blue and white ones would you still offer the red ones?  Would you concentrate your monies on the ones that sell so you can reinvest your profits to make additional wedgets that will sell?

And your probably right, the parts that do get discontinued surely will show up on ebay.  I can see it now, "here is a pair of B/E & A 68 charger tail light bezels the best on the planet and last set anywhere" BUY IT NOW for $1,000,000 (lenses and cans not included).  Case in point, the 70 cuda grille mounted light lenses are one of those super kinky parts made of unubtanium until we made them, you know the ones that sold on ebay for as much as $2,000 a pair? Guess what, I guarantee you will be seeing those on ebay in the next 12 months as discontinued.  They are so good, OE cudas have been judged with them and no one was the wiser.

Bull, I can appreciate your pain trying to get a car done on a budget, I've been there.  All of us that have mopars made a conscious decision when we get into this mess and I'm sure all of us realized the drama that is involved messing with mopars.

As a company, we can not and will not compromise quality for price.  Remember the old saying? "Low price is long forgotten with poor quality". 

[bull]

Well I can easily loosen up $600 fror the chance to make $1 million later on Ebay. That's a helluva deal. 

Anyway, I think you have illustrated my fears by saying these housings are going to be a limited-run item. You know that feeling you sometimes get when a great opportunity is staring you in the face and you can't or shouldn't really do anything about it? That mixture of excitement and frustration or joy and anger? Oh well, I guess I need to go out and stare at my original housings for a while... I have a tough decision to make. So do a lot of other guys.

I hope the part kicks ass and you are able to make 5k of them but I won't hold my breath.

[Joshua]

I have a tough decision to make. So do a lot of other guys.

My housings are slightly pitted, but otherwise are in decent shape, and if I want better, I'll have THEM redone.......original parts redone will ALWAYS be better than REPOPS!
These new housings are $$$$, but I feel are worth the price for the guy who has very bad ones......or none at all.....

[TUFCAT]

.......original parts redone will ALWAYS be better than REPOPS!

I hope you're kidding!!  Without getting into a debate about which re-chroming shops are the best - - rechroming is NOT ALWAYS the best answer on highly detailed chrome parts - - and will not return 100% perfect results from "most" chrome plating houses. 

The re-chroming process involves grinding and almost always softens the sharp edges, and sometimes creates a shallow line where its should have been a deep indentation - unless they take the time properly rebuild the area like they do with pits.  I 've been down that road before with a part I took to a chrome shop last year. It was a nice original part (nobody reproduced)....and I ended up selling it on ebay because it wasn't as crisp as it should be.  Unless you're taking your stuff to a very expensive rechroming shop like Paul's Plating in PA, ....naw,  at that point, you'll be better off buying the (high quality) reproductions.   I WILL AGREE that not all reproductions are high quality.  

I'm not saying a perfect rechroming job isn't attainable - -  its very costly.  On the other paw, ....getting the originals rechromed may be cheaper alternative than buying the reproduction housings.... if that's what you prefer

[Joshua]

I'm NOT kidding..... it's a matter of FIT......original parts always FIT better than repops....... Regardless of quality....repops are repops......

BTW...I'll never rechrome mine anyway.........they look fine at 70mph.......

[bull]

So Tufcat, are you getting in on that $900 group buy or just the $600 housing set?

[TUFCAT]

I definately would..... if I needed them.