440 Build for my 68

[sixty8charger]

New Member! and I need some help!

My first Mopar, 68 Charger. Originally it had a 318. Swapped in a 440 from a mild driven 76 NewYorker with about 150,000miles...maybe even 100k.. mostly freeway miles between Portland and Seattle..
I have the 727, got a nice shift kit installed and a stock converter. Body needs a little bit of work.. minor holes in the trunk bed...  horrible instal on the vinyl top and there is rust bumps forming on the top!
and i have a few rust bubbles forming on the rear quarter panels.. under the paint...

The only thing i have done to the engine is: EDEL Performer RPM ALUM Intak, EDEL 750 ELEC CARB, PETRONIX ELEC Distributor, MSD 6AL Ignition box, and a pair of Doug Thorley Headers (1 3/4primarys), and i have a 2.5" H-pipe exhaust system with Flowmaster 50 Series mufflers. For suspension, i replaced the old leafs and got some HD ones. and put some shocks all around (white ones, forgot the brand. . KBSomething)  i have manual drums all around, 741 case on the 8 3/4 non suregrip...  power steering, and stock everything else.

The car sits in a garage and hasn't been driven much. I  Took it out 2 years ago when i was back at home for Christmasl, started it up (right away! with a few shots of Starting Spray, god i love Mopar!), drove it around town for a little bit, stepped on it a few times, but it is not very responsive.. sounds nice though..   it started knocking bad when i got it home..oil pressure was dropping... knocking increased..  assume the oil pump went out.  No major oil drips on the deck ... except from the old seals..and yes there was oil in her before i took it out.

But that is how it sits right now.

I would like to get the most i can without wasting what i already have purchased. Want her to be a dependable cruiser with respectable MOPAR Power!

Ideally i want it to have 500HP/TQ. I would love put some ALUM EDEL Heads to go with the rest of the EDEL intake..for that advertised power. As for budget, basically, as long as i have a pulse, i will use what i can from this Military salary and put it in there, i have $2000 right now (my wife so graciously allows).

Any recomendations on how i can get the performance i want out of her?  I am looking for a list of everything, so i can start my shopping list.. and get started!

Thanks, and keep with the postings!  Lots of great info on here!

[Purple440]

500hp sounds like a rebuild to me 

Those add-ons look good to me and would be nice on a refreshed motor, so no money wasted there. 

G/L

[sixty8charger]

Thanks Purple440 for the response.

Any recommendations if i should do the 500 Stroke option?  or should i just use the stock crank and bore it .030.. maybe rebuild the stock (76') heads.... and add some new dishes and maybe the Comp cam FireFighter talks about?

I am liking the 440Source Alum heads in development.. those will definately be in the future for this engine.. so i am going to keep those in mind when i do the rotating assy.

[Steve P.]

I would have to say to keep on saving. 500 HP is very doable, but it takes some money in other departments besides the motor. You will need to build a strong tranny and buy a good stall converter and gears to make it all come together.

Firefighter posted VegasMikes dyno results from his 440 build that is well over 500 HP and has proven itself to be very reliable and a ton of fun. Try doing a search on Vegasmike and read up on the build. Mike, Ron and I will all agree that Mike's 68 Charger kicks azz....   

I was reading up on 440 Source's soon to be released aluminum heads also. Sounds good, but I'll wait and see how they do in the real world first. The "E" heads have proven themselves to be just what the doctor ordered.

Good luck and keep saving..   

[Purple440]

If it were me I'd definitely do a stroker.  I didn't do it and I'm regretting it as my 440 is currently running in my Charger.  On the other hand you can do fine with a non-stroked 440, it's up to you.  Again if it were me, stroker or not, I'd use the Eddy heads and not have iron heads machined.  The eddy's are supposed to have the right chamber shape along with good flow.

There is a ton of stroker info in this site so I'd start by searching on that.  Firefighter and Chryco can help you with the specifics on the motor.  But you have a good start so keep your parts.  Go with the aluminum heads and an Engle or Voodoo cam and you'll be happy based on previous posts here.

Oh yeah, welcome to the site!  You'll enjoy it here!

Good luck 

[firefighter3931]

Welcome to the site.  500hp doesen't come easy and isn't cheap so like Steve says ; keep saving your $$ and we can cook up a recipe for the engine when the time comes. A stroker will hit that target easier but a std stroke 440 can also get there with the right parts and still be very streetable. 


Here are a few 500hp builds with 440 based engine specs :


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,28602.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,6000.0.html



Ron

[sixty8charger]

Ron,
Looking at the build for 70Sixpkrt i think that is going to be along the lines of what i am wanting..
so this is what i am starting with:
EDL Performer RPM INTAKE,
EDL 750 ELEC CARB,
PETRONIX ELEC Distributor,
MSD 6AL Ignition box,
Doug Headers (1 3/4primarys) to a 2.5" H-pipe exhaust system with Flowmaster 50 Series mufflers

...now the new additions... this is tentative.....  suggestions appreciated...
bore .030 over, with 440Source Platinum pistons -4(FT) Dish. Compression height 2.067  Distance below deck=(-.018"), CompRatio 9.90 ?? (website product info) or 9.57 with Stock 76 heads (88-92CC.....??
EDL Performer RPM HEADS 84CC
440Source Platinum I Rods 6.760 .990 pin...
Stock 3.750 Crank.
Comp XS282S Cam.
...
TF 727 Trans with shiftkit.... 3000 Stall?
3.91 gears? SureGrip..
...
would like to have  fat grips in the back, fill up the wheel well a little..  295.. or so, but i would like a  18X10 rear 17X9 "MrAngry"Profile....... right now i have the stock looking 14" Cragers...

so what does this sound like?

i am getting my list together..  and then i will start the purchasing..

One question though.. Lets say i do the majority of the engine as stated.. minus the Eddy heads, and use the Stock heads until i can purchase the Eddys...  would it still be driveable or would it be best to do the engine all at ouce. I see a lot of the threads saying start with the Rotating Assy and then add on as needed...?

Just want to know, eager to drive her again!

[firefighter3931]

68,

I reread your original message and realized that your 440 has a cast crank. They're OK for a mild build but i would prefer a forged crank for a hot street type build. If you have to buy a new crank, you might as well go the stroker route and build a torque monster.  The 440 source 3.75 and 4.25 stroker cranks cost the same. 

You wouldn't have to go too wild with the cam to make an easy 500+hp and close to 600 ftlbs of torque. The E-heads with a good valve job would be fine as would your Performer RPM manifold and ignition setup. The D-152's are a little small for this type of build but won't hold you back too much...if you allready have them then it's workable.


The key component will be the camshaft selection which is dependant on what you want to use this car for. The 282s on a 112* lsa would sound "mildish".... idle well yet still make excellent power with the 500 cubes. It would be easy to tune and dial in. If you have power brakes it will make enough vacuum to run your booster. A set of iron adjustable rockers is all you need....these are bulletproof & perfect for street builds with less than .600 valve lift and won't break the bank.


Based on your comments i'm thinking you want to build a power cruiser type of car that is easy to tune, maintain and be reliable. 



Ron

[sixty8charger]

Yes, A Power Cruiser that is easy to tune, maintain and be reliable is what i want!  with the ocasional trip to the local strip.

So looks like the 440 Source  [440 >> 512. (4.250" stroke/7.100" rod)] kit..
(would it be worth the money to get the premium chamfered rod & main bearings and rings, all final balanced option for the extra $400?) For my type of build?

4.350                                                                                         OR    4.350
(.030 over) -17(Dish) 1.480" comp height...-.015"DBD  10.05 C/R              (.030 over) -27 (Dish) 1.485 C/H.......-.010" DBD  9.43 C/R

I will keep the D-152s, spent so much on them early back..  havn't been used much maybe an hour or 2 worth of operation total!...  Nickel plated too! Glad they will work.. 

As for the Comp 282s ... how Mildish. ..  will it give me the signature BIGBLOCK rumpty rump idle?  because that is what i want... not too aggressive.. but noticeable....feel it in the steering wheel a little.. sitting at the light  rocking the idle while some annoying buzz of a ricer rolls up next...

For the EDDY 84CCs.. 

and as for the IRON Adjustable rockers.. should i just use the kit that is matched to the 282s? on the Comp Catolog? or the 440 Source kit...

i am starting to get this all pictured! (new at this)  just need to finalize my list and and set up the funds!

what about reccomendations on the stall?  should i just use the stock one until i get the Diff Gears and Wheel/Tire combo?   

Jayson (thanks again for all the assistance)

[firefighter3931]

The 512 kit would be fine and yes, balancing is a good option. I would order the rings and bearing from them as well while you're at it.

The Crane iron ductile rockers are all you need but if you feel like spending extra $$ the Comp Pro Magnum rollers will work fine but there won't be any improvement in performance. They will however look nicer when you pull the valvecovers for valve adjustments. 

The xs282s has some lope to it but it will be less noticable in a stroker due to the increased displacement. No one will mistake it for stock if that's what you're worried about. 

A stall in the 2800-3000 range would be fine. PTC makes a very nice 11in converter that would match up well with this build.


You'll need a bunch of other stuff as well : oil pan and pickup, stroker windage tray, oil pump and drive, timing chain, pushrods etc....all the small parts add up. 



Ron

[sixty8charger]

Was doing some research and got this quote from Percision Engines...  is it worth it?
I would still be able to use the EDL PERF.RPM INTAKE/750 CARB/MSD/and Doug Headers..  but would it be a good match?
the price for this including 500 core charge and 300 shipping is $5000.

440/500 STROKER
-440 CI block bored, honed, decked and align honed
Speedpro® performance camshaft:
230/230 @ .050   480 lift  109 lobe center
New Durabond® cam bearings
Balanced rotating assembly
New 4.15" stroke crankshaft
New H-beam rods with Hardened rod bolts
New King® performance bearings
Speedpro® Forged  pistons with Molly® rings
10 to 1 compression ratio
New Melling® double roller timing set
New Melling® high volume oil pump
Cylinder heads  2.14"/1.74" steel valves
120 lbs valve springs
ARP Head bolts
3 angle seats
bronze guides
positive seals
New push rods and stamped rockers
New Felpro® gasket set
Painted Mopar Hemi red
Stage 2 porting intake and exhaust.

any recomendations on "use this part instead"?
any idea of the est. HP/TQ?

thanks,
Jayson