Price reliability

[kmbro73charger]

HI all.  Question for those out there with a good handle on value.  I am in the market for a second generation charger and am trying to develop a sound method of understanding exactly what a fair price is for certain models and, perhaps more importantly, their condition.  First, ive spent a few months scouring the internet via ebay, craigslist and others for what people are asking for various chargers, and what they are getting, etc.  Seems like a decent way to keep my thumb on the current market pulse.  Secondly, I have a 2008 Collector Car Price Guide for reference.  (Ive found this to appear to be much more accurate than any online guide like NADA.)  Without any mopar friends, i really have to rely on my own research though. 

An example problem is with a 69 charger im looking at.  78k original miles, matching numbers, runs nice, original 383,  needs paint for sure, has a little rust.  I think it's probably between '3' and '4' on a condition scale...well, according to my 2008 price guide, that means its worth between 7,600 and 17,100. Big Spread.  Now, i realize that price is subjective, and certain conditions add and certain conditions reduce the value... He's asking 20k.  Each situation has its own set of variables, and for someone like me, who likes rationality...its frustrating.

Without posting every car that peaks my interest on this board for your 'expert' reviews and opinions, what else can a novice like me do to better assure that I am getting a fair deal for a certain charger in a  certain condition?? or what I  should offer as a counter offer???  Does anyone have much confidence in the price guide i mentioned? 

Thanks for your help and input!

[Mike DC]

     
The majority of the time, anything in a booked-up form and touting itself as an "official price guide" won't be accurate.  I dunno why that is, but it seems to be the case in the old-car hobby.

Ebay has become a pretty reliable way to get an handle on what the prices are for whole cars, if not for the parts.  The Ebay prices are definitely at the very highest end of the "normal" margin, but they're typically not gonna be way off the map when taken as an average over time. 

The various Mopar shows around the country are also high-end-of-normal prices for the most part. 
But the couple of huge shows (like the Mopar Nationals) are really ripoffs.  Especially for parts.

There's still A LOT of these cars changing hands w/o ever being advertised.  Friends, relatives, etc.  Even in this day & age of the internet & big-screen TVs, you'd be absolutely amazed at what a high percentage of sales aren't in a paper of Ebay ad.  There's really no way to get in on this action unless you're "in on" the Mopar hobby in general, or you live around dozens of old cars in your local area.  The average old-car guy still beats the bushes & pursues local leads to a huge degree.  (These efforts are probably disproportionate to the gains from it when you count the hours of our lives that we're investing in it, but the "thrill of the chase" is a powerful force.)

   
And it's been said a zillion times before, but don't ever buy a car w/o seeing it in person. 

 

[41husk]

I think 20k is a little high for a small block with some rust.  I am sure you could find a big block nice driver for 20k.

[skip68]

I've hunted cars for a long time and can tell you that I don't think there is a standard ballpark price sight unscene unless it's a solid roller, or a finished car.   Every car has a different state of rust or repairs needed  I've got a guy that has a 69 R/T that will run and drive for 10k but it needs quarters, rear panel work and new interior and some other odds & ends.  My advice to you is to get the most clean solid and complete car you can.  When I look for car I don't care if it has a motor/tranny or not because I can get those cheap compaired to the cost of bodywork.  I'll probably get the R/T guy's mad at me for saying this but an R/T is just a trim & suspenssion package and not special like a 6pk or Hemi. I think it's funny everytime I see an add that says R/T clone, or can be made into an R/T clone.  It's overated.  Make sure you look in the trunks (if it has one)     and under the cars at the frames.    Ive seen real shiny cars that were bondo buckets or had rotting frame rails. Also, if you find a car that you are real serious about make sure you post it and the guy's here will help you out.  A picture's worth a thousand words.  Good luck.    Chuck..........

[triple_green]

THe NADA is useless. I stopped getting the old car collector guide because they never updated the prices and the conditions they used were vague and hard to match to.

I know people are going to hate this, but I look at Ebay completed auctions. At least you know this is a completed sale, not just someone's asking price.

A couple of things going on right now that are effecting price. One is that there is a slight seasonal discount, becuase it is fall and the prices drop slightly because people don't want to hold or finance a car over the winter.

Two, there is definately a little drop in the collector car market in general, probably tied to drop in Real Estate prices and shakey stock market. This tends to effect the higher dollar cars more than the lower dollar ones.

The truth is the not that many Chargers come for sale in any one local market.

I look at what it would cost to get the car to a #2 car, nice driver. For instance, If it needs bodywork and paint, that is huge. Engine rebuild is also big, for instance.

Obviously R/T  and rare option packages(6-pack, hemi) get more money. Big blocks more desirable than small. Also it is rare to find an original 4-speed car.

The other biggie's are matching numbers and either a build sheet or fender tag, for authentification.

If you told us the general trim level and price range you are thinking about it would help too!

lastly, I would buy a car with as much restoration already done, as you can afford. (assuming it is good quality work).

Mark

[68charger383]

I agree with above, try and buy a car as far along as the wallet allows. Ebay is tough because the car is usually across the country and your forced to buy it sight unseen. Plus you do not know if the bidding is rigged or the actual condition of the car. Plus..take your time...wait for the right car at the right price..you'll fall in love with one this week and then next week another will pop up and you won't even remember the prior one etc. etc.

Here is a great Ebay page you can use to view all of the ending charger auctions on ebay to see how high an item was bid or sold for. This way you can gauge the prices quickly and try and compare apples to apples if your thinking of bidding for a current auction. Under the Keyword box, check the "completed listings" box.
http://motors.search.ebay.com/ws/search/RefineSearch?fcl=3&from=R12&fsoo=1&fsop=9&sacat=6339&sofindtype=1

I would also keep an eye on Moparts, more than likely it would be a car from this site, but you never know!
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=B

Hemmings is kind of a dinosaur right now for buying cars compared to the old days, but there might be an old timer only selling the car in that magazine.

Go on Craiglist, its free to post and some people will only use that...just have to check every local they have individually!

[89MOPAR]

 1st thing - secure your funds $$$ up front.  Make sure you either have the cash, or have a pre-approved loan.  Otherwise you'll just be kidding yourself and wasting the sellers time.    No sense in dreaming about a 30K car if you can only realistically afford 3K.


Watch Collectorcartraderonline.com   - it is basically the auto trader magazine site for old cars.  A guy can run an advert forever for $50 if he just keeps renewing it. This way you will see which cars sell or disappear and which ones stay there for months and years [ those would be the overpriced ones]

  Hemmings.com  also 

Be prepared to travel, like Mark said, the local market will usually tend to be thin. In this day and age I think you really have to consider crossing state lines to get what you want, so figure in travel or transport costs as well.

A fair deal will differ between buyers.  What is a good deal for a guy making 50$ / hr   may not be a good deal to the guy making 6$ / hr......

[TUFCAT]

This is probably one of the most confusing areas of the hobby - what to pay for it/what's it worth..... Once we get this problem solved, we need to  figure out that age-old problem of understanding women!

Seriously, the only help I can provide you -  get to know which individual parts and pieces are the most desireable, and hardest to find. 

If you can actually price the car out individually sort of speak, ....then it can help you figure out the price of the whole car (and what it will take to make it nicer).

Most guys in the hobby will know some of our favorite Mopar makes and models more intimately than others.... because either they have owned, or currently own them. 

Ask a guy who currently has the car you are looking to buy.  My best advise is to buy the most complete, most done car you can find, and always see the car in person before you buy it.

Then.......cover ALL the details twice, walk away, then come back.  You find lots more stuff the second walk-around!

[suntech]

Hi!
I followed a bunch of ebay auctions over a few months, to see what i could get for a given amount of money. In that way i could see what actually got sold, and for how much. Then i found a car, close to where a friend of mine was living, and he went to see it for me. I am happy the way it ended up for me!!
The value of a car is the amount of money somebody will pay for it!! Happy hunting!!!!

[Joshua]

You can find R/T's ever so often on CL at 'reasonable' prices..... http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/car/417255516.html

Most of the R/T "clones" are not done correctly.....just "look" like an R/T, but don't have the heavier duty suspension......

R/T's over rated???......maybe.......

[triple_green]

I want to make sure you know while I suggested Ebay as a price check, I did not intend to suggest you buy your car off of Ebay.

I agree wholeheartedly with what has been said here. NEVER BUY A CAR WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT IN PERSON !!

I had one very bad experience with this already..but more importantly, people have very different ideas about what is good and even excellent condition. You need to judge it for yourself in person.

Also don't be fooled by 20 foot pictures, almost anything can be made to look good at 20 ft.

Be careful of cars with a good looking paintjob, but that no other restoration has been done on. Little stuff can nickel and dime you to death in both money and time.

BTW, good luck on your hunt for a second gen. !!

3X

[eSJayDee]

I'm assuming the basic question is should you be paying $17k for this car, or $8k.
I think the answer lies in 2 things:
1) what is a/the car worth to you.  Obviously, if you can't comfortably afford a car or if you don't particularly fancy it, it ain't worth what someone is asking
2) Relative to what you want, how does one car at $X, compare to another at $Y.  In evaluating this potential buy, you can't really tell how much it's worth w/o some legitimate reference points.  What's a typical roughly $17k car like; an $8K & a $12k.  Where does this car fall?  I don't think anyone can really put a value on it w/o some basic 1sthand reference.
Good luck.