Reproduction VIN Plates?

[BobH1968]

It has been a long time since I posted anything, basically because it took me a long time to find this website after the other one went down.  I remember about a year or so ago somebody posted their is a place that will make a new vin plate for your car if your old one is way to rusted to read.  For somereason I think someone said its in Alabama?  I don't recall where it is, but if anyone has any information on this please let me know because I would like to look into possibly having one reproduced.

Thanks,
Bob

[jaak]

I think that is illegal, I know if you leave your vin on an e body dash and send it to just dashes, they will not send it back, thats what they claim.
Now Galen at GTS will make you a fender tag if you got.... a build sheet, original invoice, title, valid drivers license,social security number, marriage certificate, birth cerificate, registration to vote, and what ever else that a-hole wants to make you an overpriced piece of tin with numbers on it. But I have never heard of any one repoping vin tags (I could be wrong though) what kinda car you got?

[Khyron]

I have one i'll sell you cheap...






KIDDING! I'M KIDDING PEOPLE!


seriously. I don't think it's leagal as well, i'm interested in what the correct answer is.

[Chargerguy74]

I'm sure it's illegal. But hope that one day they could be reproduced with proof of fender tag VIN, body stamped numbers, etc. That way no one can have a tag reproduced for a rebodied car.

[BobH1968]

Mine isn't rusted too badly, but it would be nice to have a real good looking one.  I really think I remember people discussing it before.  But I don't remember that is the problem.  If you look at alot of those resotred cars the vin plates look great.   Who makes the new fender tags?  A nice clean looking one of those would be nice too.  Yeah that would suck having people tag a rebodied car, but that is why whoever would do it should have proof of title and old tags etc.  Maybe there would be a way to do it through the state.  Where is the body stamped on a charger?  I know the vin plate and fender tags, but is it stamped somewhere else?

Bob

[Blown70]

They have several more stampings... Trunk on drivers side.   Rad support, maybe even the cowl

[Troy]

You can actually get a new VIN number from the state - which will come with it's own tag. I'd rather have the rusty original. I do remember some place that "recreated" tags but I don't know if they did VINs. I'll see if I can find something in the archives.

Troy

[KMPX2]

Repo vin tags will land you in jail real quick. Chrysler has stated that if it did become legal they will never give permission for anyone to do it

[Recharger]

I remember reading on 69Hemi's site that you can order a reproduction of the pentastar graphic from Performance Car Graphics if you supply them with copies of the fender tag, titile, and bill of sale I believe.   You can then clean the rust off of your existing tag, repaint it black and put the new decal on it to make it as clean and shiny as the rest of the resto.

[Chargerguy74]

Repo vin tags will land you in jail real quick. Chrysler has stated that if it did become legal they will never give permission for anyone to do it

Just curious, when and where did they state this?

[FastbackJon]

Sad that people can easily take already created VINs from cars and swap them onto other cars, getting rid of the latter car's original VIN tag, but when an honest person buys one of those cars with a swapped vin plate, and discovers the fact, they are threatened with major barriers including jail time if they seek to put the original VIN of the vehicle back on it.

[Chargerguy74]

Sad that people can easily take already created VINs from cars and swap them onto other cars, getting rid of the latter car's original VIN tag, but when an honest person buys one of those cars with a swapped vin plate, and discovers the fact, they are threatened with major barriers including jail time if they seek to put the original VIN of the vehicle back on it.

that's true? I never heard of anything so stupid.

[Troy]

Geez, I just did all the research on the laws before the old site disappeared. Anyone can look them up but I don't have the time right now. It is illegal everywhere that I checked. If you can find out where it *is* legal then let me know. I asked for the same information before and got zero responses. Apparently it is ok with some people to have a fender tag produced (notice I didn't say "reproduced") but VIN numbers are pretty well regulated. As I stated above, the state can issue you a new one but it generally is obvious that it's not original. According to the laws I just mentioned, tampering with the VIN can get you landed in jail even if you're putting the original back on. You are not to touch the VIN in most states without an "officer of the state" present (or at least they have to be aware before you do it).

Troy

[hotrod98]

Here's my opinion.
As long as you are not changing the vin number,  I don't think there is a court in the land that will pursue criminal charges. The courts are clogged with cases as it is. I can just hear the judge's reaction now.
This is a situation, where the old adage "don't ask...don't tell" applies. If you can find someone to make a vin plate that is identical to the original, just buy it and install it using the rosette rivets and forget about it. Just don't change anything. That would be a criminal act.
When you try to be honest, you get screwed.

[Old Moparz]

Troy covered this quite well, it's simply illegal. Yes, there are lots of honest people who just want to restore a car & have a nice, shiny, new tag, but that's not the way it works. Try to restore the tag you have the best you can & avoid the headaches & gray area you'll put yourself in. The laws are there for a reason, & in my opinion, should stay there at all costs. How many stolen cars do you think there would be if it were simple to get a new VIN? This is not so much for classics, but mostly new cars. I think there would also be a huge increase in Hemi ragtops & other rare vehicles if new tags were allowed. There's already the "rebody" argument, which there is no such thing since it's really "SWAPPING VIN TAGS" & nothing more.

You can read an eBay ad on any given day, for any part or car, & see so many sellers trying to scam someone by being less than honest in a description. They get away with it by taking photos from 20 feet away, taking them from the good side, not saying the item is a rusted & useless POS, just that it's "restorable" or "rare" or some other vague adjective. If these kind of sellers exist, what would happen if they had access to new VIN tags & a backyard full of rotted 318 cars?

[BobH1968]

I was just saying reproducing the original numbers, making an exact copy of the current vin, that wouldn't be changing the numbers.  yeah there would be people trying to get new numbers made for a car, but that is why u would have to be careful and make sure that there was proof of existing numbers. 

[miamivice]

well what happens to those cars that are missing the vin for some reason but are still licenced w/ the state.   i mean someone had a car that was titled/licenced in a state and the vin number on the title was the same as on all the body stampings on the car, but just missing the dash vin.   

what would they have to do?   assuming one did not want to have the state put a new vin number/tag on.

[Troy]

well what happens to those cars that are missing the vin for some reason but are still licenced w/ the state. i mean someone had a car that was titled/licenced in a state and the vin number on the title was the same as on all the body stampings on the car, but just missing the dash vin.

what would they have to do? assuming one did not want to have the state put a new vin number/tag on.

Contact the state DMV. The laws for practically every state are online if you don't want to tip them off but sometimes the exact part you need is hard to find.

Troy

[Chris G.]

Mine isn't rusted too badly, but it would be nice to have a real good looking one.  Bob

Bob, post a pic of your VIN tag. I haven't seen too many rusted out VIN tags. Let us see what all the fuss is about.  

[hotrod98]

Chrysler, in their infinite wisdom, attached the all important vin plate to a removable item instead of the shell. What in the hell were they thinking?   For instance, I bought a 71 challenger convertible a few years ago and the guy had switched the dashes out because he found one that was nicer. He never even thought about the vin plates. He then sold the other car and lost track of it. I paid $500 for an otherwise restorable convert and promptly stripped it and crushed the shell.   The car had to be destroyed according to law. I had no choice. Of course I sold the parts for ten times that much, but I still would have loved to have restored that car.   I even had a clear title and the data plate.
I blame Chrysler for that blunder. I mean, it was bound to happen. It's a shame that Chrysler did something that stupid. But then again, the ignorant far outnumbered the informed at Chrysler. Thanks to their blunders, I now own a lot of Mopars that a few years ago no one wanted.

I still say that replacing a rusted or damaged or well documented missing vin plate should be legal as long as the same vin is used that the car came with originally. DMV could control the issuance and charge a nice price for doing so. If you damage or lose your license plate, won't DMV gladly sell you a replacement?

[Chris G.]

Hotrod98, If you think Chrysler was bad, see how GM and Ford did it back then. IMO, Chrysler was leaps and bounds above the other big two. 

[hotrod98]

I've owned over 250 cars since the age of 16. I'm almost 50 now. I've restored about half of those cars and a great many of them were Fords and GM's, mostly GM's. They all have their faults, but I don't remember any of them having their vin plates attached to a bolt in item. I may be wrong, my memory isn't what it once was. As for leaps and bounds...I don't think so. While I was driving my Chevelles and Camaros, my buddies were working on their mopars. They will tell you stories today about how frustrating it was to not be able to get performance parts even in the 70's. Parts were so expensive that their cars sat in the driveway and they rode around with me.
I had one friend that bought every Charger in town, almost lterally. He must have had 40 or 50 of them sitting around, 440's, six packs, hemis and all of the rest. They just rusted away silently because no one wanted them. He eventually pulled the better motors and had them all crushed. The town was only around 80,000 people back then. Don't get me wrong. I love all of my cars. Right now, I'm down to 13 Mopars, but I love them all and drive about half of them weekly. Some of them I will never sell. My Trans Ams and firebirds go undriven for the most part and I've sold all of my Chevelles and Camaros in the last couple of years.
As for quality, remember, I was buying musclecars brand new in the early 70's. The only reason that I have had as many mopars as what I have is because nobody around here wanted them...period. Now they do though, but it's too late. They're all bought up now. I love them enough to live with their faults. But I don't deny that they have them.

[Chris G.]

I've owned over 250 cars since the age of 16. I'm almost 50 now.

Well, then you should know that a Chevelle SS or Camaro SS can very easily be faked. Unless you have some serious paperwork on those cars, they have red flags all over them. It's not easy to fake a Hemi car nowadays. Most "In The Know" Mopar people know a rebody or fake when they see it. Whether or not they divulge on it, is a different story. It's all up to who's buying, and if they have any sense .Chrysler at least had a fender tag, and the VIN stamped on the rad support and rear trunk area.

I can't understand your whole rant about Mopars not being popular back then? It has nothing to do with this topic.  

[hotrod98]

Think about it and you'll figure it out. I have faith in you.

[Chris G.]

I have faith in you.

I'm glad someone does.

[hotrod98]

Hey, I'm just jerking your chain a little. Makes people think.

[dkn1997]

Chrysler, in their infinite wisdom, attached the all important vin plate to a removable item instead of the shell. What in the hell were they thinking?

Chrysler, GM, and Ford probably thought what everybody thought:  these cars will live for thier 80-100k mile and end up in a junk yard somewhere.  I doubt they considered that these cars would actually appreciate in value, thus creating a situation where people would be motivated to swap vin's etc.....

[hotrod98]

I've thought the same thing. When I was in high school, I had a new 69 Chevelle SS396. As soon as I got it home, I started tearing stuff out and either threw it away or sold it cheap. My dad thought I was crazy. In 1976 I took the original 375 horse 396 out and put in a 454. We never dreamed that these cars would be around for the next 30 or 40 years. My buddy that crushed all of the Chargers cries himself to sleep almost every night. 

[KMPX2]

Repo vin tags will land you in jail real quick. Chrysler has stated that if it did become legal they will never give permission for anyone to do it

Just curious, when and where did they state this?

It was in one of the Mopar magazines some time ago. They did a story about a fake car & contacted DCX on there stand on the issue.

[KMPX2]

By law you may not remove a vin tag for any reason! I held a used car dealers license for some time. If found with a loose vin tag or the means to put it back on can mean jail time. Now we all know it is done all the time. It is hard to pick up a magazine & not find a car that did not have it done. But do you want to be the one that gets caught? You say it's my car & it's no big deal. Some day you will see that car & that person may find something wrong with the car and turn you in years later.

[hotrod98]

So let me get this straight.
It is illegal for anyone, anywhere to send a dash panel to be recovered if the vin plate is attached to it. The act of simply removing the dash from the car during restoration is in itself illegal since it entails the removal of the vin from the car and the subsequent replacement of the vin by reinstalling the dash. According to you we should all be in prison doing hard time. Next, you will tell me that we have all sinned and are doomed to automotive hell for eternity.

OMG, I just realized...who's going to tell the folks at Just Dashes that they're corrupting us all. Where does it all end?

[Troy]

The act of simply removing the dash from the car during restoration is in itself illegal since it entails the removal of the vin from the car and the subsequent replacement of the vin by reinstalling the dash.

Tampering with the VIN itself is illegal everywhere that I've researched. I am not sure about how the law deals with removing the entire dash but, as I said before, check your local laws if you really want to know. It is entirely up to the state to prosecute someone so if they have no problem with it then you're safe I suppose. Opinions really don't count for much when facing jail time though...

Troy

[Nupe]

It is illegal to remove them much less reproduce them!  

That is the double edged sword with repro parts:   on one hand it is nice for the honest people who need replacements or want to make a clone, but the repro parts make fakes and scamming that much easier.    

[BigBlockSam]

and don't steal cable either.   

[hotrod98]

Damn cloners.

[andy74]

ah fuck- lets just all remove our vins,and go to jail!

[hotrod98]

Except for the Texans...death row there has an express lane.