Fast 1/4 mile car

[Moparer]

Yea I do agree with having the bigger block and I think whats probably going happen is I will build this motor just for the spring/summer of 08' and then buy a 440 block and build another motor thats designed to last longer over the winter next year. I know its kinda pricey but my car is my baby and I love wrenchin on it.

[firefighter3931]

In that case, why not just spruce up the 383 assuming it's in good shape ? A cam swap, headers, 4 bbl, mild converter and 3.91's would really wake it up. There's lots of power to be found with simple tuning and the right combination of parts.

I would run a compression and leakdown test on your 383 to see what you've got to work with. 



Ron

[Moparer]

Again Ron your absolutely right I could do that. I had planned on getting my 383 block machined and worked over and ready for all the new goodies, so I know that either way I have a fair amount of work ahead of me. I just really would like to put some kind of stroker kit in it, so do maybe recommend the smaller 438 kit to make it last a little long and make it more streetable. You also mentioned headers, what kind would you recommend? I currently have a pair of hooker sc headers is there another kind you would recommend. I also have to thank you again for SOOO much wonderful advice about where to go with my project. My main concern for this comming year is getting down to 12's so I know I beat my friend and have something I can drive for a while until I can get the 440 block and build that.

Shawn

[aifilaw]

the 3.75" crank in the 383 and 400 is what I recommend, I don't like going bigger than that for the very reasons ron already posted.
There are two ways of going about it, the cheaper better way (and by cheap I'm assuming you can pick up a 440 steel crank for less than $100, and then machine the blocks journals to fit it. This makes for a stronger overall build. Option B is have a 440 size crank turned down to 383 size and just drop right in.
There is a header made by someone else apparently that is exactly like the TTI but much cheaper, do a search and you may come across it. Anything else and you will end up dimpling tubes, burning plug boots, and bending pipes to get them to fit properly.

My most recent old build that went in the charger personally was a 383 block opened to accept a 440 crank that had the counterweights turned down and balanced to domed pistons and 452 heads with an ending static CR of 13.5:1 and an ending dynamic CR of 12.5:1 with the cam. Full forged internals, a holley 870 avenger vac sec. carb and standard hooker headers. It ran a 12.29 best in the 1/4 on BFG drag radials. But this is not something I recommend anymore, because I ran a minimum of 25% 100LL avgas mix in my fuel to keep out of detonation unless I did some tuning on the carb and lost power.

[firefighter3931]

Again Ron your absolutely right I could do that. I had planned on getting my 383 block machined and worked over and ready for all the new goodies, so I know that either way I have a fair amount of work ahead of me. I just really would like to put some kind of stroker kit in it, so do maybe recommend the smaller 438 kit to make it last a little long and make it more streetable. You also mentioned headers, what kind would you recommend? I currently have a pair of hooker sc headers is there another kind you would recommend. I also have to thank you again for SOOO much wonderful advice about where to go with my project. My main concern for this comming year is getting down to 12's so I know I beat my friend and have something I can drive for a while until I can get the 440 block and build that.

Shawn

Shawn, the 438 kit would be more street friendly and be reliable. If you keep your current heads with maybe a little valvework and mild porting it will run very strong. The MP porting templates are great and easy to use. Seeing as you like to wrench....this is a worthwhile upgrade and all you need is some time, patience and a die grinder. There's an easy 30-50hp  right there. 

The SC headers will be fine as well and the car is allready set up for them.  If you go to an angled plug head then you're looking at new headers which adds cost to the project.

The 438 will want a better intake manifold....the performer RPM would be my choice with a 750dp carb.

With the right parts selection, gearing and stall speed a 12 sec time slip is very achievable. Heck a 383 can run those numbers but it would be a little more high strung and not as pleasant to drive. Just depends on what you want or need. 


Ron

[Moparer]

Ron, I still think that I would like to put the edelbrock heads on it because I'm not sure I'm quite ready to do the work on my heads just yet. I will definitely save them and do some work on them when I learn a little more about how to work on them. So let me give you the run down of what I think I want to do & you can tell me what you think. I'll do the 438 stroker, change to roller rockers, change the cam (any ideas for what kind I should use?) get the edelbrock heads, RPM performer manifold with my Holley 750 dp, stick with my hooker headers, change to 3:91 rears in the rear end, and use some track bars to help me plant the power. My current tranny is a 727 torque flight with a 2800 stall converter and TCI performance clutches and a B&M shift kit that I rebuilt last winter. Is there anything I'm forgeting or should add to my list-o-parts?
          Shawn

[Runner]

didint read the other posts but theres a couple ways you can beat him even if hes running 12s. the easiest would be a stroker.  if i really wanted to pound him and keep my car somewhat mellow, id find a 400 block and biuld something like a 470 and i might spend a few hunded extra dollars and put indy ez heads on it.  however an iron headed 383 can get the job done also,  the combo just wont be a mild.

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I still think that I would like to put the edelbrock heads on it because I'm not sure I'm quite ready to do the work on my heads just yet. I will definitely save them and do some work on them when I learn a little more about how to work on them. So let me give you the run down of what I think I want to do & you can tell me what you think. I'll do the 438 stroker, change to roller rockers, change the cam (any ideas for what kind I should use?) get the edelbrock heads, RPM performer manifold with my Holley 750 dp, stick with my hooker headers, change to 3:91 rears in the rear end, and use some track bars to help me plant the power. My current tranny is a 727 torque flight with a 2800 stall converter and TCI performance clutches and a B&M shift kit that I rebuilt last winter. Is there anything I'm forgeting or should add to my list-o-parts?
          Shawn

Shawn, if you go to the E-heads you will be looking at a new set of headers. That is why i suggested using the stock heads for now until you build the big motor you're planning on. You don't have to port the iron heads...a good 3 angle valve job would be fine. The home porting was a suggestion that was cheap and easy to do.  I'm just approaching this from a maximum bang for the buck perspective.

No need for roller rockers at this point and you could even get away with HD non adjustables if you were going with a hydraulic cam. Seeing as this is a transition build, i wouldn't be spending big bucks on it and maybe save for the next build. 

A hydraulic cammed 438 with iron heads and the right parts will beat up on your buddy's truck....it's all in the combination. 


The poster above me (Runner) knows how to make a 383 run....his old combo ran mid 12's with a hydraulic cammed 383. 



Ron

[Ghoste]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

[Moparer]

Thanks Ghoste and Runner its good to hear that with less money then I had originally thought I will still be able to get down to 12's. Ron, should I replace the valves and springs in the heads then while I'm working on them?  I really appreciate all the advice so I can save my money for the new engine that will really help in the long run. I'm still unsure as to what cam to run, any ideas?

[firefighter3931]

The machinist can decide if the valves are servicable when the heads are disassembled. If the valves are not too bad then have them touched up when the seats are being machined for the valve job.

The valvesprings will need to be swapped out and matched to the cam. For this combo the voodoo 268 grind would be awesome. 



Ron

[Moparer]

I really can wait to get started here in the next couple of weeks! Ron and everyone else thanks a ton for all the info I know that I 'm going to bring something to the track that will show that stupid typhoon what a REAL car is and what it can do! If there is any thing that you think I'm leaving out or forget please let me know or if you have any more suggestions I'm all ears

[Ghoste]

I will add one more.  Never, ever underestimate your opponent.  (like he's doing to you )  Don't defeat yourself mentally either by building their reputation up too much, but don't underestimate.  Simple but true.

[Moparer]

Defiantly, the track is the prove all say all place. It really doesn't matter who says their faster, the times don't lie and I will absolutely get to a test and tune be for I run him so I know exactly what I have and how to drive it down the track as fast as possible, thanks Ghoste

[Runner]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

  i wouldnt bother swapping if it was me ghoste.         just because an intake is the hot ticket for one combo, doesnt mean its the answer for another.  i do hower think the rpm intake is hard to beat for flexibility.   

  my old 383 in my roadrunner started life with a old dp4b intake. ( i personally think its a good intake now and wish i would have never sold it) i swaped it out for a torker intake, and i gained about a tenth in et. i then swapped it out a few years later for a tm6 intake and didint gain any et at all, then later swaped that out for a brand new shinny rpm intake. i only raced the car once in that form but the car slwed slightly, however i think the cam was going south during that race as it was gone a week later.   i always liked the look of the tm6 intake so when i put the 452 together i put it back on and then put the rpm on my 68 satellite ( replacing the old torker that had been on my roadrunner) the satellite never really ran any faster with the rpm intake, but i think its slightly more driver friendly for a 3.23 geared smallish cammed motor.

    the rpm intake does have a couple small  downfalls over the other intakes,  expect to buy or do alot of modifications to you current throttle bracket and kickdown linkage. it also has hood clearance issues with some cars.   im not sure if its a better intake for your combo than the street dominator,  but you might end up with a lighter wallet and little to no performance gain.   but there really is only one way to find out.

[firefighter3931]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

With 4.10 gears and a 484 cam the SD is a good match....i wouldn't be going out and buying a Performer Rpm looking for a majic bullet. Now if the car had 3.23 gears and a mild cam that would be a different story. When you were looking to upgrade the rear end gearing was an influence on the SD selection....at least as far as i was concerned. One thing you can try to give it more off idle snap is a 4 hole spacer. Those really boost the signal to the venturies and sharpen up the throttle response. 


Ron

[Ghoste]

I didn't mean to thread hijack but since we're there...  I have a 1 inch four hole spacer, what I really need is a cam swap and/or a converter change.  I wasn't so much looking at a magic bullet as looking at those manifold comparisons and wondering if the current intake was just hampering an already less than ideal situation.  But, facts is facts and it looks like the facts is that my combo needs to be allowed to function in the rpm range where it wants.


BTW, Ron how in the hell do you memorize everybody's engine combinations like that?

[firefighter3931]

BTW, Ron how in the hell do you memorize everybody's engine combinations like that?

Funny the things that stick in our mind....most days i can't remember what i ate for my last meal, but car stuff just stays permenantly implanted. 

There was a lot of discussion on yours so it just stayed programmed in the hard drive ! 


A converter swap would be a huge improvement if you plan on keeping that cam. Another thing that would help would be to advance the cam timing and bring the powerband in sooner.




Ron

[Ghoste]

Converter and cam will both go at some point.  I plan to bolt-on band-aid it for another year or two and then start over.

[Challenger340]

This is a little "off-topic",
but,
found this old Picture of my BB DART, on it's way to another 10.20/138 mph run, back in "the Day" on a foot launch.

Remember, this was on a 4500 ft elevation day, the car has dipped well into 9's at Mission(sea level) since these days.

Had alot of fun with that car, used to drive it to the track, win alot, then re-cork the headers and drive home.
The odd Friday nite cruises were always eventful as well, so many bikes, so little time !

A- Body was 3370 W/driver and full tank of fuel.
499 inch based/400 block
INDY SR heads
Solid Flat-tappet Cam
TORKER 383 Intake
850 cfm list#8162 carb
727 W/4200 stall
4.10:1 gear , 8 3/4
29.5/11.5 M/T (sun stretched @ 40 psi to around 30.5")
Leafs W/floater/ladder bars

[/img]

[Ghoste]

That's a serious looking "launch face" you have there. 

[Moparer]

Thats quite  a screamer!!! I wish I only had 3300 pounds to take down the track and I live in Denver so I will always have altitude issues to over come but I bet that car is a blast to drive !!!!!

[Challenger340]

Waaayyyy to intense in those days !   LMAO !

Takes concentration to cut .500 lights on a "foot launch" !

[Ghoste]

Takes concentration to do it on a transbrake too (for me anyway  ).

[Steve P.]

Forgive me for sticking my foot in your spokes, but,,, it seems to me that you are doing just about everything to the 383 that you will be saving to do on a 440.. Unless you just don't plan any machine work on the bottom end.To me, this is a waste of time and money. 

Let me put this another way.

You COULD put your hands on a 440 block. Get the stroker kit of choice. Pay for all the machining ONE time. Buy ONE cam. ONE manifold. You are all set on buying a set of E heads.  I would defffffinitely  suggest a larger oil pan and pick up. A windage tray would not hurt. Not to leave out a good spark system.

OK, here's the big point I'm trying to make.  All this can be done without touching YOUR CAR. You can still drive it while ordering parts, waiting for stuff and the motor work is being done. Having a motor built and ready to go in cannot be beat. Besides all else, you could have the engine shop set up your motor on the dyno and you could yank your carb. Bring it in and have the entire deal broke in (PROFESSIONALLY) and tuned.  Once the engine is dyno'd it is ready to go into the car. Pulling the 383 and replacing it with a 440 is an afternoon job for most of us.

All in all you will be saving money. Doing the job once and right and down time for the car will be minimal..

This, of course, is just my 2 cents....