Fast 1/4 mile car

[Moparer]

I own a 71 charger 500 with a 383 and since owning it I have put on a fair amount of performance parts and my best 1/4 mile time is 15.9 @ 85 mph. I have a so called "friend" with a GMC cyclone that he claims runs 12's in the 1/4 and he assurers me there is no possible way my car could ever beat his and I would love to prove him wrong. I plan on completely rebuilding the motor over the winter and am open to ANY suggestions that will help me beat him. I also am planning on puttint  390 gears in the rear end to help me get down the track better.

[Mefirst]

I think the best bang for the dollar is to build a 440 stroker with Edelbrock heads, mek. camshaft, etc... There are a couple of guys here who built 496cid strokers and those engines produce quite easily such an amount of power that you'll blow the doors of your buddys GMC...

Then again you also have to do some work on the car suspension if you want to get the car to haul ass down the track.. High engine power alone does not make a fast car...

-It also comes down to how fast do you want to go and how much money are you willing to spend on your car???

/Tom

[Ghoste]

Never mind what the magazine tests report, I'm also curious to know if your friend has any real timeslips to show that HIS Cyclone with HIM driving has achieved 12's?

[70charger_boy]

The fastest time I've seen on a cyclone is 13.349 sec at 96 mph
http://www.dragtimes.com/GMC-Syclone-Timeslip-6427.html

[Moparer]

I'm sorry I forgot to say that my charger has a 383, are there stroker kits available for it still and what kind of suspension mods would you recommend? No my friend has never been to the track in his truck, all he does is talk about all the cars he has raced on the street on beat so bad. I really don't believe him but either way I still want to know that my car will hand him his ass when we get to the track in the spring.

[moparguy01]

if he's never raced his truck he wont hit 12's. maybe high 13s or low 14s. thats pretty easy to do with a streetable charger.

get it up around 9.5-10:1 compression with a good cam, you have to match the cam to the converter and everything else. but you could pretty easily make that time.

[Ghoste]

Yes, there are stroker kits for the 383.  Also, before the big day comes be sure you go to the dragstrip and practice.  Go on a tune and test day and just make run after run to get used to what's going on and how the lights work.  It isn't as easy as a lot of people think and guys like your buddy usually discover the hard way that women are the only greater ego crushers than a dragstrip. 

[Moparer]

Yes I will defiantly be going to at least one test & tune to make sure I can nail the lights and get the car set up. Do you know what company makes a stroker kit for a 383 and also what kind of heads, pistons, and crank do you recommend?

[aifilaw]

www.440source.com

has kits for the 383 and they come highly recommended around here.
Until some new ones come out I believe the list as far as performance vs price in order of the best to worst is as follows from what people run with the rest of the setup being in stock locations.

Edelbrock performer heads
indy EZ heads


spend your money on the heads, that's where the power is made, choose your cam wisely and keep the rest of it in mind and what you want to do with it, run that whole scenario out in the form of a question in detail and you can get a lot of answers here.

[Moparer]

I put a purple stripe cam in the motor when I changed the intake manifold and went to a all MSD ignition, should I stick with it or change it? With the edelbrock heads is there anything I should change or just leave them the way they are? What kind of suspension modifications do you recommend?

[aifilaw]

to start off with, there is pretty much a better cam out there from any other vendor besides the mopar purple lineup, their grinds are extremely outdated, and make good power but only if you design the head flow around them, which never happens. depends on the intake. edelbrock heads can have the valves widened, and a lot of porting done, but they don't yield more than about 10% greater power potential with even the most extreme porting, so they are fairly maxed out... unless something has changed in the past couple years since I looked at them.

Suspension depends on how you drive, but I certainly suggest a much larger torsion bar, front and rear sways, and complete set of much better shocks to start, unless your dragging, in which case upgrade the rear leafs, put in ladder bars and a pinion snubber and your done.

[Moparer]

First off I want to thank everyone for all the great advice, I know its really going to pay off at the track !! Also should I change to roller rockers or some other kind off better preforming rocker and I am currently running a edelbrock dual plane intake manifold with a Holley 750 double pumper should I stick with those or should I upgrade to something else?

[Ghoste]

If you are going to stroke, then the upgrade to a roller rocker is a "might as well, you've gone this far" decision.  Which Eddy manifold is it?  Some are good, some are less than good.  The carb is a good choice.

[Moparer]

Its the dual plane preformer

[Moparer]

I am also wondering if the trany will be sufficient to handle all the new power I have 727 torque flight with new TCI performance clutches, a 2800 stall converter and a B&M shift kit its only got 5000 miles on it. If its not going to be able to handle the power what should I change?

[Ghoste]

The Performer is junk.  The Performer RPM is a good intake.  Your 727 should be able to handle it but of course it depends how far you go.

[Mean 318]

The Performer is junk.  The Performer RPM is a good intake.  Your 727 should be able to handle it but of course it depends how far you go.

You are better off keeping the stock cast then going with the performer... junk! The RPM is the best bet, got it on the 440.

[aifilaw]

the performer is a design based on a chevy engine and modified to fit a mopart, and poorly designed at that. Enough said. I agree with the others

[firefighter3931]

The Performer is suited to a very mild build. The small runner design will make lots of torque but it will choke the engine down up high. The 440 performer is notoriously poor allthough the 383 manifold isn't that  bad. A 1in open spacer between the manifold and carb would help it make more top end power yet still maintain good torque due to the dual plane design. Short stroke 383's need all the help they can get so a dual plane isn't allways the wrong choice....especially in a heavy car.

Headers, a good cam and some solid engine tuning would really wake it up. The 3.91 gears would be a huge bonus....that would be my first upgrade. 



Ron

[firefighter3931]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ; Here's a good thread to read for head to head comparisons of several manifolds on a mild 383. Basicly a stock type build with unported heads but a healthy solid cam.....this is a race grind that would not be considered very street friendly. The Comp MM lobes are super agressive and not typical of what most of us would run on a street/strip type build. There will be an article coming out soon in Hot Rod, complete with dyno results ! 


http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3734062&page=0&vc=1


Here's a cut and paste from that thread with some of the more popular manifolds listed :

Street Dominator
3,000: 381, 217
4,000: 449, 342
6,000: 395, 452

Torker
3,000: 395, 225
4,000: 455, 356
6,000: 397, 454

Perf RPM
3,000: 408, 233
4,000: 457, 348
6,000: 392, 448

DP4B
3,000: 419, 239
4,000: 454, 346
6,000: 387, 442

Performer
3,000: 418, 238
4,000: 452, 344
6,000: 382, 436

Six Pack
3,000: 413, 236
4,000: 459, 350
6,000: 391, 447



The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 

Look at those TQ #'s at 3000 rpm....the Performer is kicking azz compared to the single plane SD & Torker.




Ron

[Moparer]

WOW thank you all so much for all this great feed back so far I cant tell you how much I appreciate it! So after re viewing everything I have heard and seen so far I believe that I'm going to go with the 383 to 496 stroker kit, edelbrock heads, roller rockers, the performer intake with my Holley 750 double pumper, track bars and 3:91 gears for the rear end. What kind of pistons should I get with the stroker kit to get the most compression and complement all the other parts in the motor and what cam do you recommend and is there anything else that it sounds like I might be forgeting?

[R2]

I would follow along with Ron's (firefighter) advice,,,,he is pretty sharp on nailing a combo the first time around,,,,and with motor upgrades,,,nothing is cheap,,,so its good to get great advice up front,,,,to avoid the headaches later........... RON = 

In my Charger,,,,i have a 496 stroker in a 440 block,,,ported Edelbrock heads,,,M1 intake,,,holley 850 DP,,,,solid cam,,,compression is 10.75:1,,,,,dana,,,410 rear,,,,with super stock springs,,,,,, runs on PUMP gas only,,,,,and runs in the 11.50 range at 119 MPH with "lots" of slippage off the line,,,,,,, "your results may vary".....
Good luck with your car............
Doug

[firefighter3931]

WOW thank you all so much for all this great feed back so far I cant tell you how much I appreciate it! So after re viewing everything I have heard and seen so far I believe that I'm going to go with the 383 to 496 stroker kit, edelbrock heads, roller rockers, the performer intake with my Holley 750 double pumper, track bars and 3:91 gears for the rear end. What kind of pistons should I get with the stroker kit to get the most compression and complement all the other parts in the motor and what cam do you recommend and is there anything else that it sounds like I might be forgeting?

Moparer, The performer would be fine on a mild 383 but it would be inadequate for a 496ci type build. I assumed you were asking about performance for your current build and not a stroker application. 

Based on the latest info you would definately want a better intake....something along the lines of an Edelbrock TM6 with an 850cfm double pumper to feed all those cubes. 


Ron

[Moparer]

Yea sorry about that I meant to say the performer RPM but if you think the TM6 is a better choice then I will defiantly go with it, but other then that do you think I have included everything else? The only thing I'm still not sure about is the cam, should I get one from 440 source with the stroker kit and have them match it or does someone make something better that I should use.

[firefighter3931]

Yea sorry about that I meant to say the performer RPM but if you think the TM6 is a better choice then I will defiantly go with it, but other then that do you think I have included everything else? The only thing I'm still not sure about is the cam, should I get one from 440 source with the stroker kit and have them match it or does someone make something better that I should use.

Personally, if i was building a 500 cubic inch street motor it would be based on a talldeck 440 block. There are numerous reasons why this is a better choice ;

(1) better rod ratio
(2) less side loading of the cylinder walls
(3) taller pistons will be more stable in the cylinder
(4) the engine will last much longer


A 4.25 crank in a lowdeck (383-400) block is primarily a race motor....not the best choice for a street type build, inmo. 



Ron

[Moparer]

Yea I do agree with having the bigger block and I think whats probably going happen is I will build this motor just for the spring/summer of 08' and then buy a 440 block and build another motor thats designed to last longer over the winter next year. I know its kinda pricey but my car is my baby and I love wrenchin on it.

[firefighter3931]

In that case, why not just spruce up the 383 assuming it's in good shape ? A cam swap, headers, 4 bbl, mild converter and 3.91's would really wake it up. There's lots of power to be found with simple tuning and the right combination of parts.

I would run a compression and leakdown test on your 383 to see what you've got to work with. 



Ron

[Moparer]

Again Ron your absolutely right I could do that. I had planned on getting my 383 block machined and worked over and ready for all the new goodies, so I know that either way I have a fair amount of work ahead of me. I just really would like to put some kind of stroker kit in it, so do maybe recommend the smaller 438 kit to make it last a little long and make it more streetable. You also mentioned headers, what kind would you recommend? I currently have a pair of hooker sc headers is there another kind you would recommend. I also have to thank you again for SOOO much wonderful advice about where to go with my project. My main concern for this comming year is getting down to 12's so I know I beat my friend and have something I can drive for a while until I can get the 440 block and build that.

Shawn

[aifilaw]

the 3.75" crank in the 383 and 400 is what I recommend, I don't like going bigger than that for the very reasons ron already posted.
There are two ways of going about it, the cheaper better way (and by cheap I'm assuming you can pick up a 440 steel crank for less than $100, and then machine the blocks journals to fit it. This makes for a stronger overall build. Option B is have a 440 size crank turned down to 383 size and just drop right in.
There is a header made by someone else apparently that is exactly like the TTI but much cheaper, do a search and you may come across it. Anything else and you will end up dimpling tubes, burning plug boots, and bending pipes to get them to fit properly.

My most recent old build that went in the charger personally was a 383 block opened to accept a 440 crank that had the counterweights turned down and balanced to domed pistons and 452 heads with an ending static CR of 13.5:1 and an ending dynamic CR of 12.5:1 with the cam. Full forged internals, a holley 870 avenger vac sec. carb and standard hooker headers. It ran a 12.29 best in the 1/4 on BFG drag radials. But this is not something I recommend anymore, because I ran a minimum of 25% 100LL avgas mix in my fuel to keep out of detonation unless I did some tuning on the carb and lost power.

[firefighter3931]

Again Ron your absolutely right I could do that. I had planned on getting my 383 block machined and worked over and ready for all the new goodies, so I know that either way I have a fair amount of work ahead of me. I just really would like to put some kind of stroker kit in it, so do maybe recommend the smaller 438 kit to make it last a little long and make it more streetable. You also mentioned headers, what kind would you recommend? I currently have a pair of hooker sc headers is there another kind you would recommend. I also have to thank you again for SOOO much wonderful advice about where to go with my project. My main concern for this comming year is getting down to 12's so I know I beat my friend and have something I can drive for a while until I can get the 440 block and build that.

Shawn

Shawn, the 438 kit would be more street friendly and be reliable. If you keep your current heads with maybe a little valvework and mild porting it will run very strong. The MP porting templates are great and easy to use. Seeing as you like to wrench....this is a worthwhile upgrade and all you need is some time, patience and a die grinder. There's an easy 30-50hp  right there. 

The SC headers will be fine as well and the car is allready set up for them.  If you go to an angled plug head then you're looking at new headers which adds cost to the project.

The 438 will want a better intake manifold....the performer RPM would be my choice with a 750dp carb.

With the right parts selection, gearing and stall speed a 12 sec time slip is very achievable. Heck a 383 can run those numbers but it would be a little more high strung and not as pleasant to drive. Just depends on what you want or need. 


Ron

[Moparer]

Ron, I still think that I would like to put the edelbrock heads on it because I'm not sure I'm quite ready to do the work on my heads just yet. I will definitely save them and do some work on them when I learn a little more about how to work on them. So let me give you the run down of what I think I want to do & you can tell me what you think. I'll do the 438 stroker, change to roller rockers, change the cam (any ideas for what kind I should use?) get the edelbrock heads, RPM performer manifold with my Holley 750 dp, stick with my hooker headers, change to 3:91 rears in the rear end, and use some track bars to help me plant the power. My current tranny is a 727 torque flight with a 2800 stall converter and TCI performance clutches and a B&M shift kit that I rebuilt last winter. Is there anything I'm forgeting or should add to my list-o-parts?
          Shawn

[Runner]

didint read the other posts but theres a couple ways you can beat him even if hes running 12s. the easiest would be a stroker.  if i really wanted to pound him and keep my car somewhat mellow, id find a 400 block and biuld something like a 470 and i might spend a few hunded extra dollars and put indy ez heads on it.  however an iron headed 383 can get the job done also,  the combo just wont be a mild.

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I still think that I would like to put the edelbrock heads on it because I'm not sure I'm quite ready to do the work on my heads just yet. I will definitely save them and do some work on them when I learn a little more about how to work on them. So let me give you the run down of what I think I want to do & you can tell me what you think. I'll do the 438 stroker, change to roller rockers, change the cam (any ideas for what kind I should use?) get the edelbrock heads, RPM performer manifold with my Holley 750 dp, stick with my hooker headers, change to 3:91 rears in the rear end, and use some track bars to help me plant the power. My current tranny is a 727 torque flight with a 2800 stall converter and TCI performance clutches and a B&M shift kit that I rebuilt last winter. Is there anything I'm forgeting or should add to my list-o-parts?
          Shawn

Shawn, if you go to the E-heads you will be looking at a new set of headers. That is why i suggested using the stock heads for now until you build the big motor you're planning on. You don't have to port the iron heads...a good 3 angle valve job would be fine. The home porting was a suggestion that was cheap and easy to do.  I'm just approaching this from a maximum bang for the buck perspective.

No need for roller rockers at this point and you could even get away with HD non adjustables if you were going with a hydraulic cam. Seeing as this is a transition build, i wouldn't be spending big bucks on it and maybe save for the next build. 

A hydraulic cammed 438 with iron heads and the right parts will beat up on your buddy's truck....it's all in the combination. 


The poster above me (Runner) knows how to make a 383 run....his old combo ran mid 12's with a hydraulic cammed 383. 



Ron

[Ghoste]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

[Moparer]

Thanks Ghoste and Runner its good to hear that with less money then I had originally thought I will still be able to get down to 12's. Ron, should I replace the valves and springs in the heads then while I'm working on them?  I really appreciate all the advice so I can save my money for the new engine that will really help in the long run. I'm still unsure as to what cam to run, any ideas?

[firefighter3931]

The machinist can decide if the valves are servicable when the heads are disassembled. If the valves are not too bad then have them touched up when the seats are being machined for the valve job.

The valvesprings will need to be swapped out and matched to the cam. For this combo the voodoo 268 grind would be awesome. 



Ron

[Moparer]

I really can wait to get started here in the next couple of weeks! Ron and everyone else thanks a ton for all the info I know that I 'm going to bring something to the track that will show that stupid typhoon what a REAL car is and what it can do! If there is any thing that you think I'm leaving out or forget please let me know or if you have any more suggestions I'm all ears

[Ghoste]

I will add one more.  Never, ever underestimate your opponent.  (like he's doing to you )  Don't defeat yourself mentally either by building their reputation up too much, but don't underestimate.  Simple but true.

[Moparer]

Defiantly, the track is the prove all say all place. It really doesn't matter who says their faster, the times don't lie and I will absolutely get to a test and tune be for I run him so I know exactly what I have and how to drive it down the track as fast as possible, thanks Ghoste

[Runner]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

  i wouldnt bother swapping if it was me ghoste.         just because an intake is the hot ticket for one combo, doesnt mean its the answer for another.  i do hower think the rpm intake is hard to beat for flexibility.   

  my old 383 in my roadrunner started life with a old dp4b intake. ( i personally think its a good intake now and wish i would have never sold it) i swaped it out for a torker intake, and i gained about a tenth in et. i then swapped it out a few years later for a tm6 intake and didint gain any et at all, then later swaped that out for a brand new shinny rpm intake. i only raced the car once in that form but the car slwed slightly, however i think the cam was going south during that race as it was gone a week later.   i always liked the look of the tm6 intake so when i put the 452 together i put it back on and then put the rpm on my 68 satellite ( replacing the old torker that had been on my roadrunner) the satellite never really ran any faster with the rpm intake, but i think its slightly more driver friendly for a 3.23 geared smallish cammed motor.

    the rpm intake does have a couple small  downfalls over the other intakes,  expect to buy or do alot of modifications to you current throttle bracket and kickdown linkage. it also has hood clearance issues with some cars.   im not sure if its a better intake for your combo than the street dominator,  but you might end up with a lighter wallet and little to no performance gain.   but there really is only one way to find out.

[firefighter3931]

Further to the 383 intake manifold question ;

The Performer held it's own and i'd be willing to bet an open spacer would have helped the power numbers up top. 
Ron

There are some extremely interesting numbers there to say the least, aren't there.  I do have to add that my experience with the Performer was not a happy one and I found it to be no better (maybe a little worse) than the stock intake.   The Performer RPM numbers are sure making me rethink my SD though.  I know you'd like to see change cam and or converter, but that intake still looks like it should have been the choice.

With 4.10 gears and a 484 cam the SD is a good match....i wouldn't be going out and buying a Performer Rpm looking for a majic bullet. Now if the car had 3.23 gears and a mild cam that would be a different story. When you were looking to upgrade the rear end gearing was an influence on the SD selection....at least as far as i was concerned. One thing you can try to give it more off idle snap is a 4 hole spacer. Those really boost the signal to the venturies and sharpen up the throttle response. 


Ron

[Ghoste]

I didn't mean to thread hijack but since we're there...  I have a 1 inch four hole spacer, what I really need is a cam swap and/or a converter change.  I wasn't so much looking at a magic bullet as looking at those manifold comparisons and wondering if the current intake was just hampering an already less than ideal situation.  But, facts is facts and it looks like the facts is that my combo needs to be allowed to function in the rpm range where it wants.


BTW, Ron how in the hell do you memorize everybody's engine combinations like that?

[firefighter3931]

BTW, Ron how in the hell do you memorize everybody's engine combinations like that?

Funny the things that stick in our mind....most days i can't remember what i ate for my last meal, but car stuff just stays permenantly implanted. 

There was a lot of discussion on yours so it just stayed programmed in the hard drive ! 


A converter swap would be a huge improvement if you plan on keeping that cam. Another thing that would help would be to advance the cam timing and bring the powerband in sooner.




Ron

[Ghoste]

Converter and cam will both go at some point.  I plan to bolt-on band-aid it for another year or two and then start over.

[Challenger340]

This is a little "off-topic",
but,
found this old Picture of my BB DART, on it's way to another 10.20/138 mph run, back in "the Day" on a foot launch.

Remember, this was on a 4500 ft elevation day, the car has dipped well into 9's at Mission(sea level) since these days.

Had alot of fun with that car, used to drive it to the track, win alot, then re-cork the headers and drive home.
The odd Friday nite cruises were always eventful as well, so many bikes, so little time !

A- Body was 3370 W/driver and full tank of fuel.
499 inch based/400 block
INDY SR heads
Solid Flat-tappet Cam
TORKER 383 Intake
850 cfm list#8162 carb
727 W/4200 stall
4.10:1 gear , 8 3/4
29.5/11.5 M/T (sun stretched @ 40 psi to around 30.5")
Leafs W/floater/ladder bars

[/img]

[Ghoste]

That's a serious looking "launch face" you have there. 

[Moparer]

Thats quite  a screamer!!! I wish I only had 3300 pounds to take down the track and I live in Denver so I will always have altitude issues to over come but I bet that car is a blast to drive !!!!!

[Challenger340]

Waaayyyy to intense in those days !   LMAO !

Takes concentration to cut .500 lights on a "foot launch" !

[Ghoste]

Takes concentration to do it on a transbrake too (for me anyway  ).

[Steve P.]

Forgive me for sticking my foot in your spokes, but,,, it seems to me that you are doing just about everything to the 383 that you will be saving to do on a 440.. Unless you just don't plan any machine work on the bottom end.To me, this is a waste of time and money. 

Let me put this another way.

You COULD put your hands on a 440 block. Get the stroker kit of choice. Pay for all the machining ONE time. Buy ONE cam. ONE manifold. You are all set on buying a set of E heads.  I would defffffinitely  suggest a larger oil pan and pick up. A windage tray would not hurt. Not to leave out a good spark system.

OK, here's the big point I'm trying to make.  All this can be done without touching YOUR CAR. You can still drive it while ordering parts, waiting for stuff and the motor work is being done. Having a motor built and ready to go in cannot be beat. Besides all else, you could have the engine shop set up your motor on the dyno and you could yank your carb. Bring it in and have the entire deal broke in (PROFESSIONALLY) and tuned.  Once the engine is dyno'd it is ready to go into the car. Pulling the 383 and replacing it with a 440 is an afternoon job for most of us.

All in all you will be saving money. Doing the job once and right and down time for the car will be minimal..

This, of course, is just my 2 cents....   

[Runner]

You are all set on buying a set of E heads.  I would defffffinitely  suggest a larger oil pan and pick up. A windage tray would not hurt. Not to leave out a good spark system.

   i had that choice also,  i love my e heads  lol     good stock electronic igntion is just as fast as a aftermarket box, as long as your not running alot of compresion or you current igntion is in bad shape.

[Challenger340]

Forgive me for sticking my foot in your spokes, but,,, it seems to me that you are doing just about everything to the 383 that you will be saving to do on a 440.. Unless you just don't plan any machine work on the bottom end.To me, this is a waste of time and money.

Let me put this another way.

You COULD put your hands on a 440 block. Get the stroker kit of choice. Pay for all the machining ONE time. Buy ONE cam. ONE manifold. You are all set on buying a set of E heads. I would defffffinitely suggest a larger oil pan and pick up. A windage tray would not hurt. Not to leave out a good spark system.

OK, here's the big point I'm trying to make. All this can be done without touching YOUR CAR. You can still drive it while ordering parts, waiting for stuff and the motor work is being done. Having a motor built and ready to go in cannot be beat. Besides all else, you could have the engine shop set up your motor on the dyno and you
could yank your carb. Bring it in and have the entire deal broke in (PROFESSIONALLY) and tuned. Once the engine is dyno'd it is ready to go into the car. Pulling the 383 and replacing it with a 440 is an afternoon job for most of us.

All in all you will be saving money. Doing the job once and right and down time for the car will be minimal..

This, of course, is just my 2 cents....

Steve P. has some good points here.

What do you ULTIMATELY want down the road ? 438 ?, or 499 W/440 block ?

Costs are gonna be very similar, less acquiring a 440 block.

Keep driving the car while you're building what you want, then just swap over ?

[Moparer]

So after a long hard fought "conversation" with the girlfriend I was able to work out approx. how much a 440/499 build is going to cost over the next 7 months and convince her that it will save me money in the long run to only build one motor instead of 2.  So I'm happy to say that I will be building a 440/499 block for my Charger. I really cant wait to see what kind of 1/4 mile times I will be able to run, not to mention beat the pants off my friends typhoon

[Steve P.]

Now your talkin...     Just don't forget to take a night or two off and take her to the movies or something she likes...

[Moparer]

Yea defiantly, I might even have to let her drive it down the track once when its finished.