(IT'S OK) What the heck did I do?

[Bob]

Ok, I know it was dumb but hear me out. I was at a flea market today and got an old set of dixie horns. Looks like original ones from 30 years ago. It was only 3 bucks. On a jump pack they worked about 80%. Oiled the motor and cleaned them up. Mounted in the car. I mounted the horns and compressor. Ran a wire from ground side to ground on battery. Hooked the other wire to my horn wire at the horn. Blew the horn on the steering wheel enough for it to run through the tones. Tried again and only got one tone. Here is the problem. Disconected all the dixie stuff, started car and now it won't charge. Switch off, 12.4 volts. Engine running 12.2 volts. What the heck did I do?

Bob

[moparguy01]

if its only getting 12.2 volts running your alternator is done.

Your car is probably just rebelling against having a dixie horn in it.

[Bob]

I knew that was coming
Anyway, you think it overloaded and burnt a diode?

[moparguy01]

well im glad I didn't disappoint you 

ya I think the addition of that horn might have been just enough to cause a problem.

[69bronzeT5]

Your car is probably just rebelling against having a dixie horn in it.

[Bob]

Ok, here is what I checked and replaced.

First, replaced alternator, voltage regulator and ballast. Fusable link fine.
Here is the funny thing. When the engine is off and the switch is off, the 4 ways and lights work fine. When I start the car the signals do not work and the headlights drain the heck out of the battery. Again, switch off 12.5 volts, start up 12.2.
When I disconect the positive battery cable and check between the positive terminal on the battery and the disconected cable I get 12.5 volts.
Could there be a short in the lighting system? Oh by the way the horn system is working fine. Dixie horns in the garbage.

Something else I did. I initialy had the horn wire hooked to the ground on the compressor and the hot to the battery. Could this have back fed through my ignition switch when I pushed the horn button? Nothing happened when I had it hooked this way and thats when I switched them around and it blew once.

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm reading and thinking and still dunno what the hell happened

[Bob]

You got me to Nacho . I also checked for reverse polarity in the battery and it is fine.

[Bob]

$10 Reward for the cause.

[Nacho-RT74]

Here is the diagram Bob... really sorry the size buit since I have 17" lcd monitor is hard try to fit diagrams on normal size.

I can make it MORE DETAILED including every wire and bulkhead cavity. Let me know if you need more than this.

Is the same to any year with 4 double ballast, elect ign and elect reg, just the reset button is different ( unexistant on earliers than 74 )

[Bob]

Thats perfect Nacho. I knew you had one. Now the trailing begins.
Thanks a million. If I find it you got $10

Bob

[Nacho-RT74]

I didn't had one, I made it

[alfanta]

checked your alternator gague in the dash?

[Bob]

I used a high speed digital voltmeter on the bat, alt, fields and regulator. Nothing yet. I told him to just sit there with his volt gage between his tail pipes.

[darkfiire5000]

Sounds like you might have a parasitice drain on your electrical system i would check for amperage at the battery with the negative cable off and see if you have any thing above .01 amps.

[Bob]

Well went out tonight and fired him up. Voltage while running, at the alternator, main wire, was 22.2 volts. What the heck?

[Nacho-RT74]

I got that once and was alt shorted, rotor as far I remember

[Bob]

I guess I better get another alternator. I think it may have been a coincident with the horns.

[Nacho-RT74]

short could it be anywhere on alternator... maybe in fact just broken brush insulators

[Bob]

At the batt it's still 12.3. Do think the voltage reg is fried to?

[Nacho-RT74]

maybe

but maybe you are still without output from alt.

check if you have 12 volts between brushes wires with key in run position ( not necesarilly engine running )

[Bob]

Will do.

[71_deputy]

check the bulkhead connections!!!!!!!!

[Bob]

I'll check that to. Thanks

[Todd Wilson]

check the bulkhead connections!!!!!!!!

Thats a good idea! On my 71 When I first had the car I kept bumping the inside of the bulkhead/fuse box with my left toe/foot and knocked it loose and the car continued to run fine it just wasnt charging.


I wouldnt be surprised if your new reman alternator is a POS also.  You can have them tested at a good parts store.There are 2 voltage regulators. The 15$ crap ones and the 40$ good ones. I just had to replace one in my 74 truck.  My 71 Charger has the dim headlights at the stop light problem and was really bad a few weeks ago when I had to drive in rain. Headlights,wipers and defrost running.  I have bought a new good regulator and gonna install it today and see if that fixes the problem. Last time I put a reg on my 71 had to have been about 1988 or 89 and I didnt have any money then so I know I bought the cheapo unit.

Its either the alt. or reg.   or you got something draining your juice. If you remove the + cable from the battery and get a small spark removing it or putting it back on you have something draining current. From there you can pull fuses and determine which circuit is the problem and go from there.  Bad diodes will back drain a battery in no time with the car sitting shut off.  Cheap part store reman alternators are famous for giving out as they use cheap repair parts and dummys remaning the units.   I usually try to take my starters and alts. to a real rebuild shop and spend the extra 50$ to have it done right.



Todd

[Bob]

Ok gave up on the cat and went to start the car and now it's dead. I am charging the battery now with it in the car and decided to do some of the recomended checks. Everything seemed ok until I disconected the main alternator wire and checked for voltage with the switch off and the keys in my pocket. 12.2 volts on the alternator wire. Ignition switch maybe?

[Bob]

Anyone? ........................pretty please.........................

[Bob]

This is to me Alternators should have power at the main. DUH Bob. I can't beleive myself sometime. Ive always disconected the battery before changing a alternator. Doh.

[Bob]

Before I laid out more cash I took 2 alternators and 2 voltage regulators to an electrical shop to have them tested. Should know this week as to there status.

[Bob]

Well, the electrical shop called and stated the alternators and voltage regulators are working properly. The hunt continues.

[Nacho-RT74]

I'm pretty lost on your problem

[Bob]

As with most electrical problems it will be something obvious or just plain simple.

[Bob]

When I installed the alt and volt reg I ran a ground wire from the volt  reg mounting bot to the engine ground strap on the firewall and low and behold it charges. I think the neighbors heard me holler. I think it was always a ground problem and the dixie horns was coincidental.
Thanks All

[Nacho-RT74]

GREAT!!! as you stated, pretty simple

[Bob]

Went out for a Christmas spin and before I got home. NO CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here I go again.

[charger Downunder]

Undo and clean the two plastic wire conectors that come down from the steering column , the big wide flat ones,They build up resistance over the years and need to be cleaned, and cause all sorts of strange electrical problems,if you see some browning at the conection,that will more than likely be your problem source.

[Bob]

Will do.
Thanks

[Nacho-RT74]

mmm... good to check there since is true get loose and dirty, but really there is not the problem. If engine runs, and being true that engine is getting power from ignition column plug, then that plug is working. Probably cleaning will work better and save from some heating but still should charge.


as some earliers threads I posted check on both plugs ( green and blue ) on brushes... clean adn tight. Check for good ground on voltage regulator.

If you want to know if regulator is working or not, make this... unplug regulator plug and ground the green wire. Make sure you are at iddle not fast idling while warming engine because you will get max juice. If you get charge, then regulator went bad.

another points to check... ammeter studs, alt stud, starter relay stud... everyone clean and tight.

For manteniance, I would check bulkhead conectors too. Is time to do it!!!!

If ANYTHING did work, then alt went bad ( diodes and rotor are mostly the reasons. )

[NMike]

with the alt output of 22 volts, the alt is at 100% output. while the engine is running (leave a battery with jumper cables on it) have the black connector on the NEGATIVE battery post.

quick check to see what the battery voltage is at the battery terminals while running. if around 12 you have no charging, battery may be junk, but still no charging.

now touch the CLAMP of the Negative terminal to see a voltage drop. (leave it on DC voltage test) you want to see 0volts. that means there is no resistance. do the same for the positive. this checks that the terminals are clean on the inside with good continuity.

now leave the black lead from the Digtal Volt Meter (DVOM) on the negative post. check with the red lead to the grounding location on the block, chassis, alternator and regulator(if the two wire system) all should be 0. if there is a voltage reading you have a problem there.

now switch the BLACK DVOM lead to the POSITIVE terminal. check with  the red lead at the starter relay, positive side of the voltage regulator and the back of the alt. you said that the back of the ALT had 22 volts before. i am suspecting that he charging cable from the ALT is not reaching its final destination of the battery terminal. just follow along and see where the voltage changes.

[Nacho-RT74]

whoooaaaat ?

I have to read SLOOOOWLY that

[Bob]

I wil let everyone know what I find out.
Thanks

[Bob]

Well, Saturday while I was changing the plugs and oil I decided to push on a few wires here and there. The bulk head connector and the alt wires. After everything was done I fired him up and everything is working. Went out for a 40 minute ride and it kept charging. Hopefully it's all over. I believe the bulk head connector may have been the problem. I thought I heard a slight "click" when I pushed on it. That would have meant it was not locked.

Bob

[1969chargerrtse]

You made that?    Dang there's a lot of talent on this site.