Speaking of Mr. Norm Charger 500's...

[Ghoste]

There is a famous photo of Mr. Norm's dealership taken sometime during the 69 model year and in late fall or early spring guessing by the lack of both leaves and snow.  Parked on the corner is a 69 500 with the Monroney sticker stil in the window.  I am guessing the car is dark green from the pic.
Anybody here know or own the car?

[hemigeno]

Was it this picture?

Looks like a 440 car in B7??   

[Ghoste]

That's the pic and it does look much bluer than the one hanging here on the wall in my office.  Do you know the car?

[69_500]

Does look like a dark blue in that picture. However I'm not sure if I've ever seen a B7 Charger 500. I'd have to look at my papers again, but off the top of my head you have me stumped there. None that I can think of.

I have another photo of Mr. Norms around here somewhere that someone sent me a few years ago that has a C500 in the background, its the front of the car in the picture. I'll see if I can dig that one up.

[hemigeno]

Hey, at least you can chalk another one up in the marker bezels painted body color column, right?

[Ghoste]

Are they?

[hemigeno]

They sure look that way to me.  The lenses themselves are not as big as the rectangular area is proportionally.  Even though the body color (blue?) blends into the red of the lens within the picture's resolution, it really doesn't look like a white band around the marker lens to me.  If the stripe had been black, I'd never make that sort of statement though.

Just one man's opinion though...

[daytonalo]

What would any of us give to be able to go back in time for one day and snoop around !!!! I would give up my bean -bag chair !

Larry

[69bronzeT5]

I would give up my bean -bag chair !

Ive always wanted a bean bag chair

[daytonalo]

Only has one tear !!!

[Ghoste]

I see what you mean about the reflector size Gene.  I have to concur on the bezel.

[daytonalo]

[Ghoste]

The ongoing debate about whether the reflector housings were body color or stripe color. 

[moparchris]

More fuel for the fire on the reflector body color issue.  In the December 1968 issue of Road Test magazine they tested a brand new 69 Super Bee, yellow with black stripe.  A close up ( and I mean CLOSE UP) shot of the rear stripe clearly shows a yellow (body color) bezel surrounded by the black stripe.  I am not reciting this from memory, I'm looking at the article as I write this.
In contrast to this, is the Car Life, November 1969 article on the Daytona in which there is a close up of the stripe and the bezel is clearly stripe color (white).
What does this prove?  The cars were built both ways.  There is no "only one way" when we're dealing with Chrysler Corp. in the late 60s'.  Most of the people who worked on the line didn't give a rats ass as long as they got paid on Friday and they didn't get in trouble for holding up the line they were happy.  Cars were built at different assembly plants at a rapid fire pace.  Sometimes people missed things and sometimes they just threw things together to get the cars done.  In 1969 they were just cars, we've made them legends. 

[Ghoste]

Agreed.  I think a large part of the bezel color issue arose when a certain guru published a version as fact in a magazine.

[hemigeno]

Moparchris, I agree with a lot of what you're saying - especially when it came to MaMopar's employee enthusiasm for detail (or lack thereof).  However, the Aero car marker lens bezel color issue needs to be looked at in two parts - Charger500s separately from the Daytonas.

Both were manufactured at Hamtramck with V88 Stripe-Delete sales codes on the fender tag, meaning the bezels were originally painted body color.  More than just a few C500's and a small #of Daytonas accidentally had R/T badging installed, since that was the normal procedure for a Charger R/T whose order indicated no tailstripe.

Creative Industries was supposed to remove the bezels, paint them to match the "500" or "Daytona" stripe color chosen, and reinstall them.  As Danny (69500) can tell you, this happened on about half of the C500s, and the other half were reinstalled in a color matching the body for whatever reason.  Danny has asked the guy in charge of so-called Quality Control at Creative Industries, and the gentleman indicated that while they may have been supposed to paint the bezels, they just tried to get the cars slapped back together and out the door.

The Daytonas did not seem to follow the C500's pattern at all.  100% of the original cars I've seen (with the caveat that by no means have I seen them all) had their bezels painted the tailstripe color.  I suppose that someone at Chrysler took note of the tailstripe/bezel dichotomy and decided to put their foot down with Creative - requiring them to paint the bezels.  I know on my untouched Daytona they were painted to match the stripe, but peeking through underneath the black is B5 Blue (while my car's body color is R4 Red).  That confirms what has been surmised, where C.I. removed the bezels, and tossed them into a pile.  Any bezels that were painted R4 or X9 could have been reused on another car without repainting, since those colors matched the black- and red-stripe respective color tints.  The rest of the colors (and if they ran out of R4 or X9 bezels) had to be sprayed onto the bezels before being installed.

I'll also throw out that it was at least hypothetically possible for a Daytona to be ordered without a stripe, meaning that such a car's bezels would have obviously been left body color.  There is supposedly at least one car that was painted this way, but I have not seen any documentation to back that up.  There would have to be a dealer's order sheet or something else that would confirm the stripe-delete treatment, since the paperwork that has surfaced so far from Chrysler and Creative Industries does not specify with any degree of certainty/accuracy which cars got which color stripe (or which cars' stripes were eliminated).

What I'm trying to say, is that the breakdown in the marker bezel painting process was Creative Industries' fault, not Chrysler's.  On top of that, the Charger 500's have this quirk, whereas the Daytonas do not appear to follow that same trend at all.

Sorry for the ramble.... 

Geno

[daytonalo]

Thank you for clearing that up CUPCAKE !!!!

[moparchris]

No reason to appologise Geno,  that was good information.  I did not know that one of the supervisors at Creative had been contacted.  That was good to learn.  I've been involved with these cars since 1978 and this proves that there are still things to be learned.  Since this issue about the marker bezels has really snow-balled since Galen handed down the gospil, why don't we (as the aero community) write to Mopar collectors Guide and/or the other mopar mags and inform them of this info, at least as it applies to the 500s and Daytonas.  Maybe other enthusiasts could use this info.  If you want me to I would be happy to write to them.  I have no problem starting a pissing match with Galen.

[hemigeno]

Chris,

To be honest, I glossed over the part in your earlier reply where you referenced that the car in the Road Test magazine article was a '69SuperBee and not a '69 Charger500.  That's what I get for speed-reading and making assumptions....


I'd have thought the vast majority of factory-equipped tailstripe cars would have had their marker lenses painted body color, but I'm sure there are exceptions.  It seems there are ALWAYS exceptions    Wonder what the fender tag reads on that magazine article 'Bee?  Those could have been ordered stripe-delete also, couldn't they?  Might have been a retrofit stripe if that was the case, but that is just a wild guess.

[69_500]

Your right Gene, Superbee's coudl also be ordered stripe delete, and in those cases they received a round Superbee logo on the quarter panel.

As far as old magazine articles go, the old Hot Roda magazine test drive of the 2 HEMI 500's, 1 being a 4 speed car the other an AT. I've seen both cars personally, and both are unrestored, and neither one of them has the bezels painted stripe color. Which is also the case in all of the photographs of the two cars when they are test driving them in 1969. Also the video of Bud Lindeman test driving the HEMI 500 AT car, if you watch that you can clearly see that the bezels on that car are not painted stripe color either, but are also body color.

I agree with Gene though that I have yet to see any Daytona that has the bezels body color, all of the ones I've seen are stripe color. 500's on the other hand are about 50/50 that I've run into. I think the main reason is that unless your looking for it, 90% of people never even notice, or know its not right. Where as on a Dayton if say the car was red, and the stripe was white, and the bezels were left body color, it would stick out like a sore thumb. It would be very noticeable in that large stripe.

[terrible one]

On the red car, what are those eyes? I've seen that decal on lots of older cars, etc. and would like to know where to get some.

[Daytona R/T SE]

On the red car, what are those eyes? I've seen that decal on lots of older cars, etc. and would like to know where to get some.

Those are called "MOONEYES" Do a search on e-bay-there's bunches of 'em



OR:   http://www.mooneyesusa.com/

[Ghoste]

It's the official symbol for Moon Speed equipment, famous makers of such goodies as spun aluminum fuel tanks to fill with nitro and install in the grille of your 65 AFX Coronet. 

[terrible one]

Thanks guys. Wish I could find some of the older eyes that don't say moon across them. Don't know why, but I just like them. 

[daytonalo]

Could someone please taqke a current day photo from same spot ? There has to be a member who lives near there .

Larry