Hey Body Guys........

[69chargerboy]

The guy I have doing the body work on my Charger tells me that he needs to put the engine/trans in the car to hang the doors and front fenders to line everything up together. He tells me by having the weight in the car he could be more accurate with the body lines and gaps. Is there any truth to this? I smell Bull$hit.....  

[MichaelRW]

Never heard of that before. My car was not done that way and everything lines up great.

[Charger-Bodie]

it makes perfect sense in theory but ive never had any trouble with not having the gine in first

[hemi-hampton]

I agree with this & like to do it this way but 9 out of 10 you will not be able to do it this way because of circumstances out of your control. Most people do not do it this way even though I think it should be done this way. 9 out of 10 you wont have a problem. LEON.

[Sweet T]

To be bang on you should have the car on the ground with the motor and tranny in...but like most say you'll be close enough.  Just try opening your doors when it's on a hoist and you'll tell it's just slightly out of wack (with the motor in)...or maybe it was just all the rust on mine.   Im doing mine in epoxy, and primer, bringing it home, dumping the motor and everything else in and then bringing it back for final fit and spray.

[berna4406]

 Yes should have motor and trans in car and car on the ground.Especially if replacing body panel with different pieces.Most of the times the panels don't fit perfectly anyways.If the car has been in a wreck and had frame work done then really look over the body lines and take notes on how the line up.then rip the car apart and start the work.
                                                                         Sam

[69chargerboy]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the feedback.....

[BlueSS454]

I hung all the sheetmetal on my 69 while it was on the rotisserie, no engine/trans in it.  Once I was done with the metal work, I painted the bottom and inside cab area, inside trunk area and cut in the back of the doors and fenders, then did the final bodywork with the car assembled no engine/trans installed.  If quarters need to be hung, make sure the door hinges are rebuilt and the doors properly aligned with the quarters before cutting the old ones off.

[Supercharged Riot]

it's bullshit..really man

[hemi-hampton]

Like I said, 9 out of 10 dont/wont do it that way & 9 out of 10 you wont have a problem if you dont. But, I've sure seen some screwed up looking gaps at car shows, I wonder why? Hmmmm LEON.

[bill440rt]

If your body gaps change when you take the engine in/out, you have a MUCH bigger problem than just bad gaps. 

There shouldn't be THAT much flex in these cars. I've done my last projects as rolling shells, the gaps didn't change a bit when I put the engine back in the car.

[hemi-hampton]

Bill, Was the car sitting on the ground on all 4 wheels? There's been many times I've seen people jack up a car, Weld on a 1/4 panel, Then let off jack & say OH MY GOD, What happened to my door gap Also have seen people do this, I laugh to myself    & when they let down nothing changes    Sometimes it works, sometimes it dont   A car sitting on all 4 & no motor & trans you probably wont have a problem, I just dont liked them on a rotisserie trying to line up. But, Just my opinion, Better safe then sorry. LEON.

[bill440rt]

Bill, Was the car sitting on the ground on all 4 wheels? There's been many times I've seen people jack up a car, Weld on a 1/4 panel, Then let off jack & say OH MY GOD, What happened to my door gap Also have seen people do this, I laugh to myself    & when they let down nothing changes    Sometimes it works, sometimes it dont   A car sitting on all 4 & no motor & trans you probably wont have a problem, I just dont liked them on a rotisserie trying to line up. But, Just my opinion, Better safe then sorry. LEON.

Absolutely, Leon. The car SHOULD be on the ground when lining up 1/4 panels, doors, etc.
But, his original question had to do with whether or not the ENGINE had to be in the car. There shouldn't be that much flex in these cars where panel gaps change when you take the engine out. You'd have a real flimsy, rot box on your hands if the fenders no longer line up when the engine comes out.
I had my '70 on a rotisserie. I didn't want it on there for too long, just made me nervous with the amount of stress that's placed on the unibody. These cars weren't designed to be supported by the frame rail ends, just dangling there. If you need to put your car on one of those, get it on & off again as quick as possible. Get it back on the ground resting on the suspension to hang the rest of the sheetmetal.

[hemi-hampton]

I had to go back & reread his original Question to refresh my Memmory, I keep picturing a worse case scenario with the car all stripped & half assembled & cut up on jacks or rotisserie I like my cars sitting on all 4 & the suspension. With Motor Installed if Possible but 9 out of 10 not possible. In the collision repair Manual & one of the Questions on the Michigan certification test is a term they call LOADED. A Loaded measurement means the Measurement should be taken with Engine & suspension in Vehicle. I would guess that as long as a car sitting on all 4 should not be much of a Problem but just my opinion. LEON.

[dads_69]

I call  . Its a suspension issue, not an issue with lining up body panels not having motor/trani' installed. I can't tell you how many cars I've worked on in the last 15 years alone that were uni-body and restoring a car like so. Not having motor/trani' installed being an issue is just whacked. I wouldn't take my car back to that shop if I was in your shoes, but that just my two cents. Its your car.
Mark

[hemi68charger]

I don't recall the factory installing the drivetrain, installing the sheetmetal, aligning everything, removing the drvetrain, dipping the car and then painting.. Whew !!!  now, we have to put the drivetrain BACK in !!

In all seriousness, you shouldn't have to do that. The only thing I can think about is "MAYBE" your door being ever so higher in the rear where it sits near the quarter. The only reason I say this is, if all your window hardware is out, is your door may "sag" ever so much once you put the regulator, etc. back in the foor... The door should line up once it latches the striker anyways......

Troy

[hemi-hampton]

When I worked at Masco-Tech (a.k.a. creative industries, a.k.a. msx) in Detroit we did brand new zero miles straight from the factory bare shells for the Detroit Auto show. So new the vin tag hanged on a wire not even installed yet. To get the body lines to line up they were sent with sand bags in the bottom of the doors. Why you ask? Since the glass & regulators, ect, was missing from the doors when delivered they needed to make up for this missing weight with sand bags. These sand bags came in different sizes & weights. For example, if the front door weight was 80 pounds assemebled but 40 pounds empty it would have 40 pounds of sand bags in bottom of door. If the back door weight was 60 pounds assebled but 30 empty it got 30 pounds of sand bags to make up the differance. Thats the way the Professionals do it, Now tell me how many Body shops or Restorers do it this way?   Didn't think so? LEON.

[hemi68charger]

When I worked at Masco-Tech (a.k.a. creative industries, a.k.a. msx) in Detroit we did brand new zero miles straight from the factory bare shells for the Detroit Auto show. So new the vin tag hanged on a wire not even installed yet. To get the body lines to line up they were sent with sand bags in the bottom of the doors. Why you ask? Since the glass & regulators, ect, was missing from the doors when delivered they needed to make up for this missing weight with sand bags. These sand bags came in different sizes & weights. For example, if the front door weight was 80 pounds assemebled but 40 pounds empty it would have 40 pounds of sand bags in bottom of door. If the back door weight was 60 pounds assebled but 30 empty it got 30 pounds of sand bags to make up the differance. Thats the way the Professionals do it, Now tell me how many Body shops or Restorers do it this way?   Didn't think so? LEON.

In a round about way we do per my previous reply..... Except, we don't adjust the door body line perfect without the door/window hardware installed. We're taking into consideration the weight and it's effect with gravity on the door's "sag".....  Point for me !!!!!! or, at least a half a point..