So who is ready for another Draft?

[70charger_boy]

oh Yeah
IN BEFO DA LOCK

[Arthu®]

Hey what's that, you can't agree with me. You must say something now that I find utterly stupid so that I can irritate myself again!

[Mike DC]

   
Unfortunately, the current shortage of troops is just one more (very predicable) outcome of the Iraq invasion.  Waging the Afghanistan campaign alone for the last several years would not have put us in a position anywhere near this.  We never have enlistment problems when we're in conflicts that most of the populace (and the world) agrees we should be in.

But of course the anger/frustration will often get directed at the non-enlisters, rather than at those leaders who chose to over-extend our resources in the first place with horrendously-bad planning.  I've never understood that.

 

[Arthu®]

But of course the anger/frustration will often get directed at the non-enlisters, rather than at those leaders who chose to over-extend our resources in the first place with horrendously-bad planning.  I've never understood that.

Very good point!

[TK73]

   
Unfortunately, the current shortage of troops is just one more (very predicable) outcome of the Iraq invasion.  Waging the Afghanistan campaign alone for the last several years would not have put us in a position anywhere near this.  We never have enlistment problems when we're in conflicts that most of the populace (and the world) agrees we should be in.

But of course the anger/frustration will often get directed at the non-enlisters, rather than at those leaders who chose to over-extend our resources in the first place with horrendously-bad planning.  I've never understood that.

 

Yep...

Damn glad I'm too old to get drafted to the sandbox.

[PocketThunder]

   
Unfortunately, the current shortage of troops is just one more (very predicable) outcome of the Iraq invasion.  Waging the Afghanistan campaign alone for the last several years would not have put us in a position anywhere near this.  We never have enlistment problems when we're in conflicts that most of the populace (and the world) agrees we should be in.

But of course the anger/frustration will often get directed at the non-enlisters, rather than at those leaders who chose to over-extend our resources in the first place with horrendously-bad planning.  I've never understood that.

 

Yep...

Damn glad I'm too old to get drafted to the sandbox.

How old is too old?  I'm 32 and i would imagine i'm still eligible.  Maybe i'll google it and report back..

[PocketThunder]

It looks like ages 18~25 get drafted.  http://www.sss.gov/seq.htm

[hutch]

We need a draft right out of high school and none of this school or work deferment stuff like we had back in Nam.  And I think only Vets should be able to vote.

[Charger_Fan]

We need a draft right out of high school and none of this school or work deferment stuff like we had back in Nam.  And I think only Vets should be able to vote.

I think that for a lot of guys of HS graduation age, that's not a bad idea. It will help them grow up & learn that life is more than just 'them & their little world'...wouldn't work for everyone, though.

I think voters should have to pass a test first, before being allowed to vote...some of them don't even know who they are voting for, they just check off a familiar name.


IBL!

[PocketThunder]

We need a draft right out of high school and none of this school or work deferment stuff like we had back in Nam.  And I think only Vets should be able to vote.

I think that for a lot of guys of HS graduation age, that's not a bad idea. It will help them grow up & learn that life is more than just 'them & their little world'...wouldn't work for everyone, though.

I think voters should have to pass a test first, before being allowed to vote...some of them don't even know who they are voting for, they just check off a familiar name.


IBL!

Or who's in the sack with a hot intern!   

[Back N Black]

You are a douche bag and a coward! Go to Canada and take silver with you!! You can both run away from your duty as an American citizen!

Mean 318
What are you waiting for? sign up now,don't wait for a draft! Talk is cheap.

[Brock Samson]

a couple things:

First of all i avoided this thread as soon as i saw the title...

Maybe we need to DRAFT some question marks?..

Has anyone here ever read 1984?.. (ya' know the book?..)

My suggestion is just to nuke any place we think might post a thread,.. sorry I mean,.. Pose a threat... 

[69DodgeCharger]

   
Unfortunately, the current shortage of troops is just one more (very predicable) outcome of the Iraq invasion.  Waging the Afghanistan campaign alone for the last several years would not have put us in a position anywhere near this.  We never have enlistment problems when we're in conflicts that most of the populace (and the world) agrees we should be in.

But of course the anger/frustration will often get directed at the non-enlisters, rather than at those leaders who chose to over-extend our resources in the first place with horrendously-bad planning.  I've never understood that.

 

Yep...

Damn glad I'm too old to get drafted to the sandbox.

Yep same here......

So Mean318 you are saying it's my duty as an American to fight for the (proven) lies behind the invasion of Iraq. I'm guessing you ran right down to the local recruiters office to join up, they just haven't called you yet right? Let us know when you ship out we'll give you a hero's send off, and a hero's return when you come back in a stainlesss steel box, or missing some of your limbs.

[Ponch ®]

Would I want to go? No

Would I go? Absolutely. Even if I didn't agree with whatever war I'm being sent to...who am I to say that I'm better or superior in any way shape or form than someone who is already there and might also disagree with the reasons for fighting? If they have to go...why not me?

Having said that, a draft might not be such a bad thing at all. Seems to me like the generations that built this country into what is is now were shaped by their experience in the military. Nowadays, the typical 18-20 year old spends his time going to class late, wearing silly trucker hats, smoking weed, and playing XBOX...and that's supposed to be our future. Would it really be so bad if everyone - unless you're blind, paralyzed, or retarded - had to at least serve a year or two, even as reserves? It just might instill all the discipline, values, and direction that most young people today lack...

[Todd Wilson]

Would I want to go? No

Would I go? Absolutely. Even if I didn't agree with whatever war I'm being sent to...who am I to say that I'm better or superior in any way shape or form than someone who is already there and might also disagree with the reasons for fighting? If they have to go...why not me?

Having said that, a draft might not be such a bad thing at all. Seems to me like the generations that built this country into what is is now were shaped by their experience in the military. Nowadays, the typical 18-20 year old spends his time going to class late, wearing silly trucker hats, smoking weed, and playing XBOX...and that's supposed to be our future. Would it really be so bad if everyone - unless you're blind, paralyzed, or retarded - had to at least serve a year or two, even as reserves? It just might instill all the discipline, values, and direction that most young people today lack...

YUP!  You are exactly right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I agree 1000%!!!!



Todd

[last426]

We need a draft right out of high school and none of this school or work deferment stuff like we had back in Nam.  And I think only Vets should be able to vote.

Just so you know, they did away with the work and school deferment stuff around 1968 or so.  When I turned 18 in 71 I was part of the lottery system and got 153.  What really sealed the end of Viet Nam was when the general populace was at risk, as I said above.  When everyone is at risk of going to war, suddenly the thought of war becomes real and unless there is a real and palpable reason to engage, people won't. 

[69DodgeCharger]

Would I want to go? No

Would I go? Absolutely. Even if I didn't agree with whatever war I'm being sent to...who am I to say that I'm better or superior in any way shape or form than someone who is already there and might also disagree with the reasons for fighting? If they have to go...why not me?

Having said that, a draft might not be such a bad thing at all. Seems to me like the generations that built this country into what is is now were shaped by their experience in the military. Nowadays, the typical 18-20 year old spends his time going to class late, wearing silly trucker hats, smoking weed, and playing XBOX...and that's supposed to be our future. Would it really be so bad if everyone - unless you're blind, paralyzed, or retarded - had to at least serve a year or two, even as reserves? It just might instill all the discipline, values, and direction that most young people today lack...

You know what? That's a great idea the mandatory service thing. And I think we should start it out with the children of the politicians that so firmly believe in this cause, followed up with the children of Americans who also believe in it. And then followed up by the rest of the general populace. By the way, nice stereotyping of the "average 18-20 year old" but it's California, no need to expand on that.

  It's not the Governments job to instil discipline, values and direction. That duty belongs to family and community. Would you really go if you disagreed? That talk is great but when your getting on that bus, plane or ship knowing you may never come back, or when you do some of you will be missing how will you feel?

As far as the people that are already there, they volunteered. They knew the risks when they signed up and decided it was a chance they would take. Draftees don't get to make that choice, and I'm guessing they wouldn't be elegible for some of the same benefits  the volunteers receive.

Here's a thought... Sure make all young people do two years, with the stipulation they can not be called to active duty during that time or for two years immediately afterwards. That's fair and besides we still have the volunteer military at our disposal.

[69DodgeCharger]

"And I think only Vets should be able to vote."


That is truly one of the stupidest things I have read in some time.

[70charger_boy]

Would I want to go? No

Would I go? Absolutely. Even if I didn't agree with whatever war I'm being sent to...who am I to say that I'm better or superior in any way shape or form than someone who is already there and might also disagree with the reasons for fighting? If they have to go...why not me?

Having said that, a draft might not be such a bad thing at all. Seems to me like the generations that built this country into what is is now were shaped by their experience in the military. Nowadays, the typical 18-20 year old spends his time going to class late, wearing silly trucker hats, smoking weed, and playing XBOX...and that's supposed to be our future. Would it really be so bad if everyone - unless you're blind, paralyzed, or retarded - had to at least serve a year or two, even as reserves? It just might instill all the discipline, values, and direction that most young people today lack...

You know what? That's a great idea the mandatory service thing. And I think we should start it out with the children of the politicians that so firmly believe in this cause, followed up with the children of Americans who also believe in it. And then followed up by the rest of the general populace. By the way, nice stereotyping of the "average 18-20 year old" but it's California, no need to expand on that.

  It's not the Governments job to instil discipline, values and direction. That duty belongs to family and community. Would you really go if you disagreed? That talk is great but when your getting on that bus, plane or ship knowing you may never come back, or when you do some of you will be missing how will you feel?

As far as the people that are already there, they volunteered. They knew the risks when they signed up and decided it was a chance they would take. Draftees don't get to make that choice, and I'm guessing they wouldn't be elegible for some of the same benefits  the volunteers receive.

Here's a thought... Sure make all young people do two years, with the stipulation they can not be called to active duty during that time or for two years immediately afterwards. That's fair and besides we still have the volunteer military at our disposal.

Bravo!!!!  I agree

[Mike DC]

 
I'd be in favor of some sort of civil service at age 18 for a couple of years.  IN THEORY.
But in practice, I can't imagine it would end up being a fair system whatsoever.


You know what would happen.  They'd quickly find some way to start controlling who gets sent to do what.
("We need to test everyone for various aptitudes, to better place them according to their various skill sets.")

They'd justify some system where the rich/powerful kids are deemed more "suited" or "capable of performing" service positions that happen to be easier/more pleasant, not to mention helping them get a better start on their careers.  And of course the ghetto kids would test-out as being much more "suited" and "capable" of doing civil-service jobs that involve cleaning toilets & being put in harm's way.

   

[TheGhost]

All I can say is if my country needed me, I'd go! I have the utmost respect for ANYBODY who serves in the military! For those who serve, THANK YOU! If you VOLUNTARILY went into the military and thought you could never be put on the line in military action, you are sadly delusional. If you VOLUNTEER for the military you have to know this is ALWAYS a possibility.

If you are gonna go to a foreign country just to get out of serving your country, you are sad and pathetic. 

Oh please.  Have you even read the book by Robert McNamara where he admits that both he and LBJ lied to the American public while 56,000 American men and women were slaughtered for no good reason.  The heroes of that war were the thousands who went to Canada, protested on campuses, and were even killed by our own National Guard (Kent State).  What makes a hero is not walking in lock step over the cliff like a lemming but rather considering what he is asked to do, considering the ramifications, and making a choice, as hard as that may seem.  You can post all of the flag waving, tear jerking youtube videos that you want but believe this: if there ever is a draft the tragedy that is Iraq will stop immediately because Americans will not stomach their children being forced to leave home in a plane only to return in a box.  Our treasure and our kids cannot be wasted so that someone in a sovereign country can paint their fingers purple -- the American public will not stand for it. Kim

You were one of those guys that would spit on Vietnam vets as they were returning home from the war, weren't you?


This threads gonna get ugly...

[Ponch ®]

Would I want to go? No

Would I go? Absolutely. Even if I didn't agree with whatever war I'm being sent to...who am I to say that I'm better or superior in any way shape or form than someone who is already there and might also disagree with the reasons for fighting? If they have to go...why not me?

Having said that, a draft might not be such a bad thing at all. Seems to me like the generations that built this country into what is is now were shaped by their experience in the military. Nowadays, the typical 18-20 year old spends his time going to class late, wearing silly trucker hats, smoking weed, and playing XBOX...and that's supposed to be our future. Would it really be so bad if everyone - unless you're blind, paralyzed, or retarded - had to at least serve a year or two, even as reserves? It just might instill all the discipline, values, and direction that most young people today lack...

You know what? That's a great idea the mandatory service thing. And I think we should start it out with the children of the politicians that so firmly believe in this cause, followed up with the children of Americans who also believe in it. And then followed up by the rest of the general populace. By the way, nice stereotyping of the "average 18-20 year old" but it's California, no need to expand on that.

  It's not the Governments job to instil discipline, values and direction. That duty belongs to family and community. Would you really go if you disagreed? That talk is great but when your getting on that bus, plane or ship knowing you may never come back, or when you do some of you will be missing how will you feel?

As far as the people that are already there, they volunteered. They knew the risks when they signed up and decided it was a chance they would take. Draftees don't get to make that choice, and I'm guessing they wouldn't be elegible for some of the same benefits  the volunteers receive.

Here's a thought... Sure make all young people do two years, with the stipulation they can not be called to active duty during that time or for two years immediately afterwards. That's fair and besides we still have the volunteer military at our disposal.

You make some good point and I can certainly respect them. However, from my perspective you're basing your opinion on the current political currents. I was speaking in a more general sense, regardless of whether there is a war going on or not. You are correct, it is not the government's job to instill discipline and values - and I don't think it does. I do think however, that the experience can build character and bring out the inner qualities (or faults) of people, and in turn those qualities trickle onto the communities once they return to "civilian" life.

[Brock Samson]

 what about using the guys filling the prisons as cannon fodder?

like the bad assed gang guys who like to shoot up their fellow dropouts out on the streets...

could be an interesting alturnitive to housing, feeding, clothing these convicted crimminals who's parents didn't step up...

infact, let's include their dead beat dads they could partner in the lead hummer doing Recon and lets also include the moms who flush their newborns down the toilet and then claim they didn't know they were preggo... or lock their kids in hot cars while they're in the crack house... or abuse their kids in any form....

anyone with me on this?... 

[69DodgeCharger]

All I am saying Ponch is that the current Govt. in this country is so corrupt and drunk on power and money from Big Business and special interests that they can't be entrusted to make the right call on anything, let alone peoples lives. The system is so far gone it needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Term limits for Congress is a good start. Stripping the President of most of his ability to appoint who he chooses to further his agenda is another. Limiting the Commander in Chief's blanket authority over the military should be looked at too. As far as the mandatory civil service, it sounds good to me and it shouldn't be limited to just younger people fresh out of school. But the draft option must absolutely be off the table when  the kind of idiots we currently have in power, including those at the State and local levels are making the calls that decide who is worth "keeping around" and who isn't. Otherwise it will be the same old, same old.....Rich white kids get protected, everybody else is cannon fodder.

[69DodgeCharger]

what about using the guys filling the prisons as cannon fodder?

like the bad assed gang guys who like to shoot up their fellow dropouts out on the streets...

could be an interesting alturnitive to housing, feeding, clothing these convicted crimminals who's parents didn't step up...

infact, let's include their dead beat dads they could partner in the lead hummer doing Recon and lets also include the moms who flush their newborns down the toilet and then claim they didn't know they were preggo... or lock their kids in hot cars while they're in the crack house... or abuse their kids in any form....

anyone with me on this?... 

I am, as long as they never get to come back and use their military skills on the general public. You can take the kid out of the ghetto, but very rarely can you take the ghetto out of the kid......Leopards don't change their spots, they just hide them better. I'd be more inclined to send all the illegal immigrants off to war to let them earn their citizenship. And I'm guessing many of them would.