cam brake - in

[tan top]

hi guys ,  the new cam i am going  to put into my  440 to make it more sreetable , it says don't brake the cam in with a windage tray fitted , , its a hydraulic flat tappet from comp cams , any ideas , don't tell me i have to remove the tray & put it back in after

[aifilaw]

Leave the windage tray in, just make sure you do the proper oil changing and breakin procedures, if you need those, say so and I'll post em.

[Challenger340]

I don't understand that one ?   Why would the windage tray in a 440 affect Cam oiling ?
The windage tray is on the bottom, the Cam gets oil "throw-off" from the TOP of the Rotating assembly.

Just my opinion, maybe I dunno nothing, we're always learning it seems, but, I'd just make sure to have a real good Extreme Pressure type Oil Additive in the Oil on start up, (comp cams), etc., and do the Cam run-in procedure as normal. 20-30 minutes at 1800-2200 rpm.

We usually vary the rpm periodically to get Oil "throw-off" from the crank hitting the Cam in different places. 5 mins @ 1800, 5 mins @ 2200, 5 mins @ 1900, etc., etc.

Maybe removing your inner Valve Springs is a good idea, especially if your seat installed pressure is at/above 120 lbs. Those you'll have to put back in later after break-in, but far better than a dead cam.

Just my thoughts, Bob out.

[firefighter3931]

I don't understand that one ?   Why would the windage tray in a 440 affect Cam oiling ?
The windage tray is on the bottom, the Cam gets oil "throw-off" from the TOP of the Rotating assembly.

Just my opinion, maybe I dunno nothing, we're always learning it seems, but, I'd just make sure to have a real good Extreme Pressure type Oil Additive in the Oil on start up, (comp cams), etc., and do the Cam run-in procedure as normal. 20-30 minutes at 1800-2200 rpm.

I'm with Bob on this one....the cam is "splash" lubed off the rotating assembly so the windage tray would have little effect on lubrication during breakin. Perhaps whoever advised this is wanting the engine to pull oil from the pan (windage) to allow for increased volume which is really unnessessary when using the proper breakin procedure. At 2000+ rpm there is plenty of "splash" oil. 



Ron

[Charger-Bodie]

it probley isnt nessesary but i did mine without the windage tray , but i broke my gine in on the run stand so droping the pan to stick the tray in after wasnt a big deal comp says the rotating assy splashes the cam more if its out ........ but anyway if it were in the car i surely wouldnt have taken it out.

[tan top]

thanks for the feed back & info guys  , it has been appreciated ........................

[Steve P.]

Let a little air out of the spare tire too...   

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Just to offer an explanation to those that don't understand why the recommendation is to break in the cam without the windage tray, it's because the oil squirter's that existed in all stock rods have been eliminated in all aftermarket rods, and even if using stock rods, the bearings available for the last several years don't have the provision for the oil squirter's.

The squirter's were designed to squirt oil on the cam and inside the cylinders for longevity and cooling. Years ago, adding a windage tray was common to increase max RPM power by reducing oil windage, but the cam was assured adequate oil through the squirter's.

Keep in mind that the cam turns at half the crank speed and only delivers oil to the heads/rockers for a moment every other rotaion of the crank. This is plenty for the rockers and valves, but to expect this minimal amount of oil to supply the cam without other oiling is impossible.

Once you figure in modern oils with reduced anti-scuff additives, no oil squirter's, and add a windage tray to help stop windage oiling on top of all that, you can see why cam failures are becoming more and more common.

Modern engines have enclosed cam tunnels to keep the cam and "roller" lifters submerged in oil, and dedicated "squirter" systems to keep the pistons and cylinders cool and oiled. It's obvious that the factories don't think that the minimal oiling that our engines see is adequate, and is evidenced by the increasingly common cam failure rates that occur now days.

Personally, I quit using windage trays several years ago as the few HP gain was not worth the wear to me, but to each his own. To me, it is silly to use a windage tray on anything but a full out race car due to the fact that a street car spends 99.999 percent of its time at less than max RPM so the potential increase in power is totally irrelevant, but the constant decrease in cam/lifter oiling can be catastrophic.

Do what you want. I just post this to explain the reasoning for those that didn't know why.

[Challenger340]

GREAT EXPLANATION  is_it_EVER_done  !   Thanks very much.  Like I said, "we're always learning".

I always thought, the 20* cut on the cap of a LY 440 rod was angled "strictly" to provide Pin lubrication, on it's running mate Piston/Rod assembly, due to it's position on the Crank Oil hole being @ 90 dgrees to the load.
Whenever I tried lining up the squirter, with the Crank journal pressure hole, to see "where" the squirt was going, all that I imprinted at the time, was "pin oiling". Too low for Cam.

Makes sense that it could also provide a Camshaft "squirt" to aid oiling thereabouts !

However, I'm still skeptical, that removing the windage tray for break-in, would suffice as an adequate windage enhancement for Camshaft lubrication, at RPM or otherwise.

I'm more a fan, of "setting", actual Connecting Rod side clrc., in pairs on the throw, as means of predetermining Oil throw-off, FOR a set Rod Brg.Clrc., and provide adequate bearing cooling @ RPM, which is Rod Side clrc.'s secondary function, and often forgotten cause of Rod Brg. failure @ RPM.
Especially with "hotrod" stuff.

As for the power increase with a Mopar windage tray, I ain't found it either. Too far away.

But I do still use them as a means of air-ation reduction, by allowing it to "condense" somewhere other than the Oil reservoir in the pan, then run down into the reservoir, sans the bubbles. Bubbles are bad !

Great discussion.
I wonder if anybody's ever developed an actual "scraper" style tray for a BB Mopar, or if the scraper could be designed to enhance Cam Oiling ?

Any thoughts ?
Bob out.

[firefighter3931]

Another function of the windage tray (more importantly) is to keep the oil in the pan's sump...where it belongs. On a stock style pan with a shallow sump this is a benefit. I'd rather have the pickup submerged in Oil than have the crank creating windage and uncovering it. On a high capacity pan with a deep sump where the oil is far away from the crank this isn't so much of an issue.

The majority of cam failures are due to oil quality problems...NOT oil volume. This has been discussed ad nauseum here and on other websites....use a good oil and an extreme pressure additive and you will be fine. 


Ron

[Challenger340]

Another function of the windage tray (more importantly) is to keep the oil in the pan's sump...where it belongs. On a stock style pan with a shallow sump this is a benefit. I'd rather have the pickup submerged in Oil than have the crank creating windage and uncovering it. On a high capacity pan with a deep sump where the oil is far away from the crank this isn't so much of an issue.

The majority of cam failures are due to oil quality problems...NOT oil volume. This has been discussed ad nauseum here and on other websites....use a good oil and an extreme pressure additive and you will be fine. 


Ron

Your absolutely right Ron, I couldn't agree more !
Bob