Big Block Heads, Hyperlink included

[Hot_Rodder]

Here's what I have on my mind: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/aecairhe.html. I'm planning on going through Mancini Racing for most of the parts, motor wise, for my Charger. I've already got this oil pan: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mi7qtboilpan.html along with the 1/2" matching pick up, and the windage tray on that page. Anyway, the motor is a 383, and, unfortanatly, I'm assuming it's a fairly stock motor on the inside.... Or so I hope . Anyway, I've been thinking of this kit: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/inba.html. This car is, obviously, a heavy car. So, I'm wanting to go ahead and go to a stroker because of the added torque from the longer stroke. I'm not sure what my current heads are, but being a 383, I know it's going to be limited, I don't even know for sure what year 383 it is right now.... I am however wanting to stick with the cast iron heads rather than aluminum b/c one, $$$$, two what happens if the motor accidentaly overheats? Don't look too great for those alluminum heads... Anyway, out of those abvoe on the poll, which are pictured with descriptions on the first URL, which would you choose, or would you go with something different? This will be a street only car.

[firefighter3931]

The later open chamber heads are your best option : 346 or 452 castings. These have the hardened exhaust seats for unleaded fuel. 


Ron

[Chatt69chgr]

I have read that all of the open chambered heads flow about the same.  The major difference is that the 452's have induction hardened valve seats.  The 452's are pretty easy to score for about $100 a set at junkyards.  Same heads were used on 400's and 440's from I believe 76-78.  Lot of c-barges have the 400.  You might be able to work up a set for less than Aerohead but by the time you pay for your gas you probably wouldn't save much.   I think the 452's offered by Aerohead had the bigger than stock valves.  I wonder if when installing these, you end up machining out the induction hardened seat area?  And if so, do they replace it with a hardened valve seat (which can sometimes come out) destroying the engine.  Will the valve springs in the Aerohead heads be correct for use with the cam you will be using.  Seems like it's best to use the valve springs the cam manufacturer recommends for their cam. 

[Hot_Rodder]

I'm leaning toward the 452's. I would try and go to a junk yard around here to find a set, but... Two things come to mind, first, the yards around here don't have any old Mopar, and they can't hang on to them, two, factor in money to buy them, money for parts, and money for machine work, plus cost of gas going from yard to yard, add all that up and any other thing, then compare the difference. Not sure which one will be better, but after all that, it seems like getting a set from here might be better..... As far as listed heads, I know they already come with all new valve train, but I would assume, and hope, that since they were right there at the valve seats, if they were hardened seats, that they would put a set in it, so based on that, I would assume  that all these heads would have the hardened seats, but then again.... . Anyway, I've been doing some thinking about cam selection, if I run a vacuum reservior, then I will go with a bigger cam for potentialy better power, afterall, this car is gonna need some torque at a listed GVWR of 5000 + . But there is hope for it, listed axle ratio is 3.55 SG, so maybe. Anyway, if the open chamber heads do flow about the same, say the ones mentioned on the site all flow about the same, then I will probably look into the 452's more... But as for the springs, I'm pretty sure the listed "509 springs" probably want work, but I'm sure, if Mancini stocks these heads, rather than "shipped straight from the factory" kind of deal, that they'd be willing to change the springs to ones that I would need. But for how much, I don't know. If "shipped from the factory" kind of setup, well.... I'll have to go from there. But I still don't know what kind of cam setup I'm gonna go with. I've been thinking, depending on price, I'm planning onlooking into the hydraulic roller setup, and run, maybe, the Comp Cams Pro Magnum rocker arms. I have made up my mind to run a complete TTI system with X pipe crossover, and probably the Dynomax Ultra Flow (or perhaps the Magnaflow) mufflers.... But anyway, that's othe topic, for another time.......

[471_Magnum]

I just bought a set of 452's from Indy/Arrowhead at Mopar Nationals. Really can's beat the price at $499 complete with 2.14/1.81 valves installed along with 509 lift springs. I'm going to disassemble them and verify the valve guide clearances. Then I'll gasket match them and bolt them onto my 440 rebuild.

If you're going to be a MMW, you can probably pick-up a set for yourself at their show pricing, and save on shipping to boot.

I too question how much induction hardening remains after machining for the bigger valves.

[firefighter3931]

There are a couple of issues to consider when doing the big valve upgrade on OEM heads ;

(1) the induction hardening on the ex side is petty much gone by the time the seats are machined for the larger valves.

(2) The larger valves alone will not increase flow much at all. You really need to bowl port the heads to realize the benefit of the larger valve. A quick and easy way to this is to have a 75* throat cut machined into the bowls while the heads are apart or being reconditioned then blend the cut into the bowl. When this is done the low (.200-.500) and mid lift numbers "perk up" significantly.

*To get the big high lift numbers requires more intricate work to the guide bosses, short turn and pushrod pinch.



Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

Hey Ron, here's a question for ya. What all kind of work you do again?

I ask b/c I wonder if you'd mind setting me up with some heads? Or could at least point me in the right direction. Down here where I'm at, there are cylinder head shops, but I don't know what kind of performance they do, if any. Everything that I've seen them do is factory stuff, maybe repair on alluminum heads that ran hot, and other stuff like that. I don't think they do much port/bowl work, so I'm a bit uneven about letting them do this kind of work.....

[firefighter3931]

Hey Ron, here's a question for ya. What all kind of work you do again?

HotRodder,

My username denotes my profession....i put the wet stuff on the red stuff 

Or could at least point me in the right direction.

The machinework is pretty basic for the big valve upgrade....any shop that cuts valve seats would be able to perform the work. The blend part you could do yourself with a die grinder or have them do it while the heads are apart. Once the throats are cut all that needs to be done is to have the bottom of the cut blended into the bowl....very simple...even the Geico caveman could do it ! 

Another option is to purchase the MP porting templates and do it yourself....but it takes lots of hours to grind the bowls down. The throat cut is by far the quickest route and it won't cost much extra if the heads are apart and having the valvejob done. 


I've done them both ways....templates and machine shop throat cut. If i ever do another set of iron heads it will get the throat cut because i don't have 30hrs to waste with a die grinder. 




Ron

[Challenger340]

I don't sweat the induction seat hardening, or what remains of it, when seats are enlarged for big Valves.
Just add a few tablespoons of top end oil, to each tank of gas, and you'll be fine.

My vote is for the 346/452 castings for Rebuild W/Big Valves, and "entry" level port job/ Throat Cut(way better), for street/strip type engines.

Although, If I was going RACING, and absolutely HAD to use an IRON head, money was no object, I digress to a preference for the 906/915 Casting Intake Port configuration.
I have my own reasons, too involved to get into here.

Bob out.

[Hot_Rodder]

Challenger 340, Although, If I was going RACING, and absolutely HAD to use an IRON head, money was no object,

If this were the case, I wouldn't even be bothering about these heads, I'd be on the phone with Indy ordering a set . I wish money was no object, man oh man the possibilites would be endless

firefighter3931,
my previous used screen names brought a lot of people asking questions, and people trying to buy/sell things... Needless to say, I like my Hot Rodder name.... If i used something like "officer" or something like that (being I'm currently a correction officer), well, I'd imagine some would shy away from me.... Don't know why though . Anyway, as far as the machine work, I have cut valve seats before a while back, but that was at a shop with the "right stuff" and I no longer have access to that equipment. So, what ever machine work that will/could get done, would have to be done at a machine shop, and may, just maybe, I could talk a freind of mine into to using his Dremel and port the stuff (only problem, I'd have to pay him to do the work, because no one uses his tools).... He ported a set of factory aluminum heads on my brothers Formula Firebird, and had great results..... My old 440 that I had, I was gonna get him to gasket match the heads, and to some bowl work, course I ended up selling the car for specific reasons .

[Hot_Rodder]

Lemme through this in the mix to see what happens....
http://www.hughesengines.com/partDetail.asp?partID=11337&eTypeID=14

[firefighter3931]

Lemme through this in the mix to see what happens....
http://www.hughesengines.com/partDetail.asp?partID=11337&eTypeID=14

I like this option a LOT better ;

http://www.440source.com/newproducts.htm


By the time you machine the iron heads and install new valves, springs, retainers & locks you will be close if not more than a set of closed chamber aluminum heads that will flow waaaay more than a bowl ported stock head. With the low cost of aluminum heads that flow so well and have a quench type closed chamber it's pretty much a no-brainer. I would be waiting for Brandon's new alum head instead of dumping money into a 30 yr old casting. 

The added bonus with the 440 source heads is the strait plug arrangement which means you can bolt any header onto it w/o sparkplug interferance. 



Ron

[Hot_Rodder]

I'm pretty sure you mean the heads listed on the bottom? Because the heads at the top (I know, only two different ones listed), are rated for 1500 - 2000 horse power.... then again, sounds good enough for my Duster What you think

But I do like the heads that are listed as the "440 Source Aluminum Cylinder Heads" they seem like they'd be worth the cost, and fully assembled pair under $1k.... Or is that just one?