727 TF q's..... Here we go again......

[Hot_Rodder]

Yep,  , here we go again. CRT, Chrycho, and maybe a few others may remember me asking this same question back on the old dodge-charger.com site. But there's a difference this time, it's my '72, not my '69 R/T..... Anyhow, for a refresher course, I decided to use CRT's tran's rebuild kit (Koleen steels, Kevlar bands, Allomatic red racing clutches, Mopar Performance 5.0 shift lever, and a bunch of other items to make the tran's better), plus a B&M stage 2 shift kit, plus an 11" torque converter from P.T.C. in Alabama. This son was there to say the very least. If I left the shifter alone, and let it go on it's own, it was very nice, VERY FIRM, shift, however, what's the fun in that? I couldn't leave that shifter feeling lonely, shifted it myself, and wham, what an EXTREME shift.... I was better off letting it do it's own thing, lol. Anyway, I'm not sure if I want that harsh of a tran's for my '72 or not, but while thinking about it this previous night, I was feeling just a lil bit "jumpy" about it, and said, he** yeah I want that tran's back. I had it built to what I wanted, and enjoyed it, as long as it wasn't being shifted by me, lol..... Anyhow, this question is back on the market. The R/T is unfortanatly gone, so no diagnosing that "slamming into gear" that it was doing, but about the only complaint the guy who bought it had to say, was that the transmission was shifting to hard for his preference,  . I only had the problem with the "slamming into gear" part of it. I'm wondering if that might have been because I wasn't shifting at a right RPM, or was something out of adjustment (I remember the guy who I had rebuild it for me localy say that the shifter needed to be adjusted some, but was fairly close, but this wouldn't make the internal parts of the tran's slam like that?),  or what? Anyone got a clue ? If something might not have been done right, then I'll consider going back to the same build for this tran's, but if it was something else, then that will have an effect on how I decide to build this tran's. Oh yeah, Chryco... I hope you read this. Despite all the talks about what to do with the 383 in this car, I'm still undecided. Being this car is soooooo heavy (door Tag says 5000 plus total GVWR ) I think I need some more torque. Longer stroke usualy = more torque, right? So I'm thinking of maybe something like a 451 Stroker motor, but like I said, I don't know. This car will be a street only car, but I don't want it getting left behind by a few thing on the road.... So, I was thinking about a 400 - 450 horse motor, and 450 - 500 ft/lbs torque, these are estimated #'s of course, but anyway, the tran's needs to handle whatever I do with this car, and I know that one that was in that R/T would handle that and more... So... Any questions?

PS, when I bought this car, I was told the tran's is shot, that it quit pulling, so I'm under the assumption that it needs to be rebuilt anyway based on what I've been told.... Oh yeah, I also finaly got the car running, well, sorta.... If you take your foot off it, it shuts off, lol. Sounds like a massive cam in it, but the previous owner must not have had it long while running, because he couldn't remember how it sounded while running, so... And it smokes, bad. Ok, that's enough for now.

[John_Kunkel]

When you say "B&M stage 2 shift kit", do you mean the B&M Transpack or the B&M Shift Improver Kit?

[Hot_Rodder]

My bad, forgot to specify, it was the tran's pack, b/c CRT had mentioned to get that kit.

[Hot_Rodder]

Anyone got an idea of why it might have been slamming into gear like it did when shifted manualy? I'm trying to start pricing things out, but got to figure out what route I'm going to go with this tran's....

[aifilaw]

I'm wondering if that might have been because I wasn't shifting at a right RPM, or was something out of adjustment (I remember the guy who I had rebuild it for me localy say that the shifter needed to be adjusted some, but was fairly close, but this wouldn't make the internal parts of the tran's slam like that?),  or what? Anyone got a clue ?

It was really hard figuring out where the questions were in this thread....
The trans, "slamming" is actually a "firm" shift. And contrary to popular belief/logic, the harder it is, the better it is for the transmissions longevity... and the faster 1/4 time you'll get. This is a direct result of a few things.
The torque converter's STR (multipler) (higher = better)
the torque converter's slippage (lower = better)
the valve body (shift kit) (bored out more = better/firmer/faster)
the pump (higher volume and pressure = firmer)
the tightness of the band for the gear you are going into
and of course the setting (on a 727 its done with the kickdown linkage) for how much fluid pressure to apply at that current rpm/throttle position

Just make sure you have a pump that can supply the fluid... a tranny cooler that will not let the fluid break down on you and overheat/burn, and a 2-4 band that can take the beating without wearing out.

[Hot_Rodder]

The slamming that I was talking about, didn't seem normal, during certain RPM's (sorry, no tach in the car, so I can't list RPM's), when I shifted from say first to second, when it shifted, it would slam into the gear, in that it let a loud bang, and shook the car. When I left it alone, or shifted at different RPM's (having to go by the sound of the motor), it was a nice firm shift, and was there all the way. What I can remember putting into the tran's, is listed above. Just that "slamming" into gear like that, didn't seem right. I wouldn't want this transmission I'm looking to build do the same thing . As I said, the firm shift, that would make you sit back in the seat hard, I liked, but that slamming and not having that feeling, something was, needless to say, feeling wrong. The guy who got the car, said he didn't like the transmission b/c it shifted to hard for him , I told him that I tried to explain to him what it was, guess he didn't get the point,  , other than that little problem, I didn't see a problem with it .

[John_Kunkel]

By "Stage 2" in the Transpack can I assume you mean the street version of the mods?

If the car seems to slam harder into gear during a manual 1-2 upshift than it does during an automatic 1-2 upshift you are experiencing a case of severe overlap. Overlap amounts to being is two gears at once and the seat-of-the-pants feel is like a harsh shift.

There is always some overlap on a manual 1-2 shift because the rear band applies in manual 1st gear but not in automatic 1st gear. When manually upshifting the band has to release quickly to avoid excessive overlap. The Transpack provides two mods to make the band release more quickly, a heavier spring for the rear servo and a spacer to solidify the servo piston. Were those mods done?

[Hot_Rodder]

If memory serves me right.... The transpack that I got, did have a bunch of parts on it, including the drill bit (which is what made me change my mind from doing the work myself). I remember there being a new spring, that was put in the tran's, amoung a bunch of other parts, this I remember because I put everything in a big box , and put it in the trunk for the guy who built the tran's to have to hold the parts until they were ready to go in. However, at this time, I can't tell you every single thing that went in . Like I had said though, CRT supplied there rebuild/modify kit, which had the new bands, clutches, steels, snap ring, 5.0 shift lever, and more. I got the B&M Transpack to finish up the rest. Once the guy went into the tran's, he found a couple other things that were broke, and ordered those parts, and put all that in also.... Had to get another flexplate, b/c the old 12" converter was taken off for 2 reasons (one I needed one with a little more stall, two the ring gear was messed up), and replaced with a PTC 11" converter. I think, but have nothing to prove this, that with the tran's hitting like it did those times, it tore the carrier up in my rear axle.... Had to repalce it, a friend of mine happened to have the exact same setup as mine, but in good shape, so I changed them out..... So, might have something not have been adjusted right in the tran's, or something not added that was supposed to, or not setup right? It doesn't matter much now with that tran's since it's gone, but I'm gonna go ahead and have my current one built similar to that one, but I'd like to try and avoid that feeling of "ummmm, is the tran's gonna fall out, or what?" kind of feeling...... Also, a high flow brass filter was added, but the existing pan was used, I'm considering using a deep pan on this tran's in my '72.