What are the "MUST HAVE" part to order with my stroker kit?

[AKcharger]

There seems to be endless "stuff" to add to an engine build such as super strong forged rods, fluid tampers, "clevite bearings," roller rockers and  "fully tapered flux capacitors" and the list goes on. For the experts that have done this before what do I REALLY need to buy for a good strong street storker (400/470). I have $ to spend but I want to be a wise shopper and not blow it on something I'll never fully use

Inputs?

[mikesbbody]

ron, where are you? 

[Challenger340]

Might be easier to answer, with more info on the parts you are contemplating for your build ?

How much horsepower/rpm are you looking to produce/rev ?

Parts, generally, should be purchased to compliment the targeted application/power, but I understand what you're looking at doing, that is to be a "smart shopper", nothing wrong with that.

It's just that more info, on what you're doing, would be helpful.

Bob out.

[Mike DC]

 
If you're using the motor for anything other than 2000-rpm towing, then you can assume some larger-than-stock cylinder heads are necessary.

 

[AKcharger]

Might be easier to answer, with more info on the parts you are contemplating for your build ?

Bob out.

Ah, good point sir... see below. Options offered are
Clevite 77's top of the line performance chamfered rod bearings and full groove mains. (MS876P and CB743HN)
AND Childs & Albert or Total Seal ductile iron Plasma-Moly File Fit rings. All 3 items (rod bearings, main bearings and ring set) are just: $248!!
Add Clevite's "TRI ARMOR" moly graphite coating to the above rod bearings: $64
Upgrade to I beam rods: $50
...then theres all the super oil pumps, chorme molly push rods ect.

What I'm planning: Street engine in my '72 Charger, 95% street use with 2-3 trips to the strip just to see what it will do. Dependability #1, Ease of use/drivabilty #2 and performance #3

Engine plan:
400 .30 over
- 470 stroker kit from 440 source 9.7:1 compression...balanced
- Stock HP cast iron headers
- 452 heads
- windage tray
- Still not too sure on Cam...I think an Engle K56

The kit I'm looking at:
400 >> 470. (3.915" stroke/6.535" rod)  Approximate Bobweight: 2160
This kit is a great choice for an engine that will see a lot of street use, but still make some serious power. The low deck, 3.915" stroke version of our Platinum Series crank used in this kit has the smaller 2.200" (big block Chevy sized) journals, and the counterweights are finished at the smaller "B" engine size, to ensure they will drop right into the block with no counterweight clearancing issues. Depending on the block used, many of our customers find this kit drops right in with no modifications whatsoever! Please note that Clevite's only main bearings available for 400 engines are the "P" series bearings. These bearings may require slight modification to clear the larger radius on our cranks. Most shops will be able to do this without a problem. See our Bearings page for details. We keep all the kits listed below normally on our our shelf and ready to ship, usually within 24 hours!

Kit options:
Rings and Bearings package deal:
Add Clevite 77's top of the line performance chamfered rod bearings and full groove mains. (MS876P and CB743HN)
AND Childs & Albert or Total Seal ductile iron Plasma-Moly File Fit rings. All 3 items (rod bearings, main bearings and ring set) are just: $248!!

AND, get all these components PRECISION FINAL BALANCED together for just $150 bucks!

For some quick math, that makes the whole stroker kit with premium chamfered rod bearings and rings, all final balanced and ready to go, come to just $1697!! ($1299+$248+$150=$1697!!)

Additional Kit options:
Add Clevite's "TRI ARMOR" moly graphite coating to the above rod bearings: $64
Upgrade to I beam rods: $50

[BLAM]

A couple of general comments I would make / suggest is:  1)  Put the $ in the short block and machine work up front!  The other stuff you can upgrade later if you desire.  2)  An upgrade I think you will want eventually is perhap a nice pair of free flowing aluminum heads.  If this is on your radar for down the road at all, I would suggest you spec your rotating assembly ie. the rods and compression depth of your pistons so that you have the appropriate compression (10.5 to 1) for aluminum heads with a standard .039" head gasket.  If you must stick with the cast heads up front you could just run a thicker head gasket to get your compression down and then the aluminum head upgrade is a snap down the road with no short block mods required.

Andy

[AKcharger]

OOOhhhh good idea! Thanks

[471_Magnum]

Aluminum heads (read Edebrock) are almost mandatory with stroker motors. It is very difficult to achieve a streetable compression ratio with iron heads. I'm not familiar with the offerings from 440Source, but most stroker pistons are designed for zero deck, and that will put you over 10:1 with 88 cc heads.

[srpntlair1]

471 magnum, I must say I disagree with you on the "mandatory" part. I am sure someone will correct me if and when I am wrong, but other than looking good and the ability to handle a bit more comp. I don't see much advantage for the $$. yes I realize the 75 HP bolt on and I know it is true, but with a bit of talent and a steady hand or a good machine shop that extra HP can be found in 452 heads therefore to me the only benefit is weight. Like I said, I am opening this up to all kinds of stuff and I hope I can learn from it like all others and please don't take it like i am offending, all I am trying to do is learn the "why it works and how it works" about everything in a motor I can

[firefighter3931]

The main advantage with a closed chamber head is the ability to build a tight quench motor. An engine built around a zero deck flattop piston and closed chamber head will make more power and be detonation resistant. You can run a true 10.5:1 compression ratio with the aluminum head (tight quench) combo but with an iron head you would want to keep it in the lower 9-9.5:1 range, Max. The aluminum heads also move a lot more air so there's plenty of power potential right there in the heads w/o any porting.


AK, you need a descent oiling system ; 6qt pan, HV pump and windage tray. I would also suggest a hardened tip oil pump drive gear. Summit caries a nice line of budget SFI rated balancers for the internal balance rotating assembly....you will need one of those too.

A good double roller timing chain, the matching valvesprings for your cam as well. I would also use the HD rocker arms from MP with a new set of chromemoly pushrods.



Ron

[471_Magnum]

Ron pretty much sums up the aluminum head issue. It would take a whole lot of time and money invested in a set of 452 castings to match the performance of out of the box E-brocks.

Edit: Here's a good tech article to give some perspective on the Edelbrock vs ported iron cost argument. http://www.moparts.com/Tech/Archive/bb/40.html

Back on topic...

Just for reference, attached is the build sheet for the motor I built for my Charger several years ago. It pretty much includes everything required from pan to carb. The only thing that might be missing are some miscellaneous fasteners.

I was very frugal and had some major scores on parts. I also used a 10% discount code from Summit Racing. Also keep in mind that these are 2002/2003 prices to begin with. You'll be very hard pressed to match it today.

The block was already machined and ready to go. I did spend about $700 having the crank offset ground and balanced.

There were some later upgrades to the ignition system.

I initially ran it backed by an automatic with 2800 stall converter and 3.55 gears. Later it was converted to a five speed and 4.10 gears.

It was hard on tires to say the least.

Not much I would have done different with the parts that were available at the time. Note that the Chinese-forged stroker cranks weren't on the market yet.

[AKcharger]

Thanks magnum, great info that tech article had too many nubers for me to figure out...math wasn't my strong subject

Agree about the Aluminum heads but since it's the original block and all I don't want to go too cosmic, want the stock look with just some more power. I may take the 400 in it now and make that one into an animal if it checks out good

Copy on the part fire fighter...their on my list!

[Challenger340]

Only concern I have, other than whats already been covered, is the armor graphite coatings on the bearings in "kits".
I'm not a fan, unless, the crank is ground specifically for it, prior to the coating procedure.
Too often this doesn't happen on "kit" packages.
And while the "bond" is still good, more to the point, the "sizing" is the main issue, due to the coating adding up to .0005" to the final bearing thickness.
The end result is having to open up the rod big end bores past range(poor crush), to get the desired bearing clearance. Kind of "back-asswards way of doing things IMHO.

Skip the coating IMO, on "kits".

Bob out.

[AKcharger]

I've heard a few people say the same thing on the coatings