Next HURRICANE 3rd largest ever recorded...life will drastically change.

[ChargerBill]

After watching the coverage of this next hurricane and the damage it may cause I'll admit I'm more than a little unnerved. I have friends that are evacuating right now, and the Red Cross is ready and waiting. it seems like we will avoid the horrible body count caused by Katrina to a large extent...thank God, but many still won't evacuate and unless martial law is declared they cannot make anyone leave against their will.

Here is what we as a nation have to look forward to IF this things hits with the intensity they are predicting:

Nearly a million and a half people will be displaced between both hurricanes.
MANY billion$ in damage will be incured, and SOMEONE (you and me) will have to absorb that cost.
Gas will likely hit $4/gal and possibly $5/gal.
Energy bills this winter could double and even triple.
Groceries and most other comodities will increase in price.
National security will be at it's most vulnerable
etc, etc, etc...

Look guys, I am not a doomsday kind of person - optimism is something I am always trying to employ, it's just that this doesn't look good at all. Best case scenario gas ONLY hits $3.50 to $4.00, only HALF a million people are affected, only a few refineries (as opposed to the possible 12) are incapacitated, energy bills ONLY go up 50%, and so on...you get the picture. Worse case...I don't even want to think about it - do you? I mean, WHO can afford to spend $100 to fill their gas tank? Who can afford $7.00/gal milk or $5.00/lb ground beef? Where are all these people going to live...NOW and a year from now? How long will it take to rehabilitate Houston, New Orleans, etc....? How thin can we spread our National Gaurds and reserves before we are sitting ducks?

My deal is this: If gas does go over $4.00/gal I will have no choice but to sell my project Charger, sell my Silverado (IF possible) and buy some obscure POS 1980's commuter Honda and/or a motorcycle. In fact, I went and priced Honda Cycles today at the local dealership...figure that I'll probably finace one for $100/month and drive it exclusively unless there's snow on the ground or maybe even sell my Charger to buy a motorcycle outright. It's getting to the point where if all hell breaks loose (and it very well could) it becomes a matter of surviving...luxuries and hobbies go out the window. I don't want to sound paranoid or like an alarmist, but I'm concerned...can you tell? I barely make the bills and keep food on the table as it is (like many of you paycheck to paycheck guys out there)...gas prices would make it impossible for me to conduct business, get to the grocery store or go pretty much anywhere. I get 14 mpg and I'm 6 miles out of town...12 miles round trip and that is ONLY to the grocery store and gas station and back. I drive an average of 30 miles per day and sometimes as much as 50...which could potentially cost $75 to $125 per week in gas alone....$300 to $500 in gas a month!

Shoot, I thought this would help but I'm even scaring myself. I'll let someone else vent...I just don't know what else to say....

[bull]

It doesn't matter how many people die, how many small businesses go under, how many families go broke, how many homes are washed away, how many dream cars are sacrificed, so long as Exxon is able to maintain its 7+ billion dollar profits. Right guys?

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Yep, we need to stop Exxon from causing all these hurricanes.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Alright, check it out, since it's about time to get realistic about the whole corporate bashing thing: prices are not the economy.  Prices are signals about the economy.  Read up.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1569

Here's a summary:

Governments from the Gulf Coast to California are urging investigations of 'price-gouging,' but gas, hotel, water, and other price increases after Katrina are not a moral failing by companies. They are an economic necessity," write Independent Institute Research Fellow Benjamin Powell and Adjunct Fellow Art Carden in a new op-ed.

Powell and Carden explain that although 23 states have enacted "anti-gouging" laws, these laws are counterproductive because they discourage merchants from keeping their stores open in the aftermath of natural disasters and from shipping "groceries, water, and emergency supplies to where they are most urgently needed."

Higher prices on commodities in short supply also encourage consumers to purchase only the quantities  necessary to satisfy their most urgently felt needs. Thus, encouraging people to report to the government any instances of "price gouging" -- or worse, having the government prosecute the sellers -- harms the disaster survivors by making goods even more scarce than they already are.

"Similarly, in Texas, according to a spokesman for the state attorney general, they were investigating 'low-end' motels that doubled prices in response to increased demand from Louisiana refugees," Powell and Carden continue. "But these higher hotel prices encourage families to rent one room where they might have rented two, leaving more rooms for other hurricane victims. Letting prices increase is the most effective way to encourage people to conserve the resources that have become scarce because of Katrina.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

By the way, I feel for your situation, ChargerBill.  I guess most people don't get that impression, but I actually work for a living too - I pay my way through (a too-expensive) college, and I haven't taken money from my parents for a few years now (I'm 22).  But you know what they say, "and this too shall pass."

[bull]

Alright, check it out, since it's about time to get realistic about the whole corporate bashing thing: prices are not the economy.   Prices are signals about the economy.   Read up.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1569

Yea, I understand you like to quote opinions from The Independent Institute, however, none of those 'facts' help me stay on top of my bills 2000 miles from the nearest hurricane. I don't live in a bubble. Honestly, don't you think maybe Exxon could stay afloat if they only made, say $3 billion in profits instead of $7.6 billion while the nation gets beyond the current crisis? We are still talking Billions with a 'B' mind you.

Since you're a self-proclaimed libertarian I must assume you follow the libertarian line of keeping govt. out of our lives as much as possible. Since the US govt. is trillions of dollars in debt and should stay out of our lives I think the libertarian party should call for the large private sector businesses (like Exxon) to bail Texas and Louisiana out rather than the taxpayers. They can start by freezing the price of regular unleaded at $2/gal. until the nation gets back on its feet.

[bull]

By the way, I feel for your situation, ChargerBill.   I guess most people don't get that impression, but I actually work for a living too - I pay my way through (a too-expensive) college, and I haven't taken money from my parents for a few years now (I'm 22).   But you know what they say, "and this too shall pass."

I also find it interesting how you attack my ideals and opinions but then immediately start butt-kissing someone who's voicing similar concerns about this nation. It happens fairly often when you and I debate this stuff and I find it rather odd. Are you and your split personality playing good cop/bad cop or what?

[dads_69]

It doesn't matter how many people die, how many small businesses go under, how many families go broke, how many homes are washed away, how many dream cars are sacrificed, so long as Exxon is able to maintain its 7+ billion dollar profits. Right guys?

Holy crap Bull, we finailly come to an agreement somewhere in here. Politics suck no matter how a person looks at them, but I'm agreeing with you on this subject. I live here in Alaska, we get a dividend every October here. Average payout varies. This year its around $840. bucks. I own a house,I have two kids, wife, new truck, a few toys, 20% owner of a bodyshop plus I work a normal 9 to 6 job and a hunger for the big payoff. I'm 37 years old, and wanting my own bodyshop again someday within the next 5 years, I hope I can *afford* it then! Bull, you should read more info. about our Gov. here. Trust me, he won't be re-elected. www.adn.con or www.ktuu.com
Mark

[Afflyer]

I wish Florida would pay me $840 a year.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

By the way, I feel for your situation, ChargerBill.   I guess most people don't get that impression, but I actually work for a living too - I pay my way through (a too-expensive) college, and I haven't taken money from my parents for a few years now (I'm 22).   But you know what they say, "and this too shall pass."

I also find it interesting how you attack my ideals and opinions but then immediately start butt-kissing someone who's voicing similar concerns about this nation. It happens fairly often when you and I debate this stuff and I find it rather odd. Are you and your split personality playing good cop/bad cop or what?

I think you're imagining things.   ChargerBill never said anything about Exxon either; he was talking about hurricanes taking out our overstressed refineries.   And if you had voiced similar concerns about putting food on the table and maybe having to sell your Charger, I'd feel for you too.   Anyhow, the idea that Exxon - which seems to be your whipping boy - and other companies should contribute to the relief effort, even lead it, is just fine by me, and you can voice your concerns in that frame all you want without an argument from my side.   But when you suggest that these companies owe us something for our using their product, or that the government should step in to regulate them, I will disagree.   That's the way it is because those are my stances on the issues.   And they have nothing to do with you.   If I get exasperated and snippy, well, maybe that's my fault, but I don't conscioiusly direct any more to you than others.

Honestly, I'm not seeing the same pattern that you are; the only time I remember you and I disagreeing (aside from the very childish bashing of me you've done in certain threads regarding tomatoes, etc. - to which I have not responded, by the way) was on the Exxon thing, and for the reasons stated above.

I think maybe it's time for you and me to bury whatever hatchet we seem to have, regardless of whether or not we see it the same way.   After all, sooner or later, I will be on "your side" of another controversial issue.

[4402tuff4u]

ChargerBill, you have very legitimate concerns, however we should all take a deep breath and see what this storm will actually do. Things sometimes look bleak and worse than they really are. I agree with your point of view that if the oil companies were to lower their profit margin down to 20% for the good of the country, it would benefit everyone and they would still make money. The truth of the matter is that stock holders will not go for that. Just hang in there and remember that we are not in control of our lives. The big boss upstairs is in charge and he will take care of things.

[Troy]

I am continually amazed that people are whining about Exxon when there are other people in this nation who've been displaced (literally ripped out of their surroundings) twice in the last month due to hurricanes. I paid $2.43 for gas most of this week - only three weeks from the last doomsday reports. So what if gas hits $5.00 for a few weeks, at least the land you live on wasn't totally obliterated along with your cars, house, all of your personal belongings and possibly some family members. At least when you wake up in the morning you'll probably still have a job to go to. Remember that there are people in Florida who are still rebuilding from last year's hurricanes. This is much more than a temporary nuisance in their lives but I guess it's easier to be selfish and take the opportunity to place blame on some imaginary foe. The areas affected by these storms are some of the poorest in the nation so if you think gas and grocery prices going up puts a dent in your budget then try being out of work for a year or so while getting carted around the country in a bus and living in makeshift shelters at sports arenas and churches.

I think Bill is also pointing out that the cost of everything is going up but, again, it's temporary due to the fact that there was just a MAJOR natural disaster and we are staring right into a second one. Blaming corporations for actually staying in business is absolutely rediculous and it's obvious that anything I've written on the subject has been completely ignored. I guess next quarter the "bad guys" will be Home Depot and Lowes for actually making a profit. Bull, those Exxon profit numbers were for the second quarter which ended in June and my guess is that you haven't bothered to see what any of these companies have done since then (or how much, if any, they are contributing to any relief efforts). There was a nice article last week about Saudi Arabia leading OPEC in increasing oil output and even the guys responsible said it will do nothing to help prices since refineries are already maxed out. The oil will just sit in tanks until there is a way to process it.

I'm with Bill on the idea that we are going to be stretched thin. However, we have to do whatever is necessary in times of emergency so it's better to actually do something to make the situation better than to sit around worrying about it. There isn't any amount of planning that could prepare people for what is going on or to find homes and/or shelter for a couple of million people all at once. The nation will be paying for all this and it will take a long time. It's a sad situation but one that we're going to have to deal with in some way or another even if it is difficult.

FYI - the company I'm working for is *doubling* any contribution that we make to the Red Cross (meaning if I donate $10 they'll pitch in $20 for a total donation of $30). If anyone has anything similar I'd like to know.

Troy

[Shakey]

Hey ChargerBill, we haven't heard from you since August 31st, how are things going in TN?

[derailed]

Bill i agree with your concerns about fuel prices but I dont think its going to take this hurricane to raise fuel prices. I think they would have done that on their own in the next couple of years anyways and no i dont call it price gauging. Hell maybe there is a shortage that they have been predicting for the last 20 or so years. And anyways buying a cheap little Honda or Toyota is a great idea, something that maybe you should have thought about a couple of years ago and could have been saving yourself a boat load of money in gas.

[bull]

Screw it. Since the oil companies are run by such saints I will just add a few dollars per gallon to the price of gas and call it a donation. And Vain, stop acting like a poor little rich kid and read the last thread where we got into it over this BS. If you can't see where I'm concerned about my own family well-being and that of my fellow Americans I will rewrite so it's more clear. I understand you feel the need to justify six long years of economics education but your textbook BS doesn't fly with people on the brink of disaster -- people scraping by on $40k a year while CEOs make millions. If Rita does the damage they've predicted in the computer models this nation will be another $10 billion in the hole, or more and the jobless rate will shoot up again. But who cares, right? Those people can take the bus to all those job interviews.

Here's some info that's not in your text book: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P116243.asp

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Or you and this "poor little rich kid" (dunno where you got that) could just NOT bury the hatchet.   Whatever you want.

I just fail to understand how you see my divergent views as tantamount to "not caring" about anything like gas shortages or damage or unemployment, etc.   Up is not down and black is not white; you don't have to explain to anyone, including me, that these are problems.   Where I differ from you is that I believe that the free market devises its own solutions to problems - economies have been literally killed by the "kindness" of government meddling in order to "fix" things (see, Great Depression, modern France, etc.).   Like I said, if I've been exasperated and snippy, I'll try to work on that if you care to meet me halfway and not accuse me baselessly of being an uncaring, spoiled little prick.   'Cuz frankly, I'm not.

I suppose it should make no difference to me, especially if you'll just discount everything in textbooks as automatic BS and resort to whining whenever you sense things aren't going your way.   You may be older than me (a fact which you readily pointed out), but I'm not seeing the maturity.   Feel free to surprise me.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

And as regards your link, dividends from stock and capital reinvestment are certainly in textbooks, which hopefully doesn't make them BS.

The thing is, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say by including the link.  Are you saying that the owners of the company shouldn't get a share of the profits?  That they should get more?  That you deserve some?

[Ponch ®]

  But who cares, right? Those people can take the bus to all those job interviews.

here in L.A. they just finished a kick ass express busline that runs from one end of the Valley to the other on its own "busway".

I'll try to work on that if you care to meet me halfway and not accuse me baselessly of being an uncaring, spoiled little prick.   'Cuz frankly, I'm not.

I can vouch for that. Vainglory is not a spoiled little prick. He's just a plain ol' prick.  

[Todd Wilson]

Everybody is gonna DIE! Its the end of the world. I am going to go out now and bust the windows out of my 71 Charger and get ready to play road warrior!



Todd

[Ponch ®]

Everybody is gonna DIE! Its the end of the world. I am going to go out now and bust the windows out of my 71 Charger and get ready to play road warrior!



Todd

have fun with that. Me? I'm gonna bang every whore i can find.

[derailed]

have fun with that. Me? I'm gonna bang every whore i can find.

thought you had already done that

[Ponch ®]

have fun with that. Me? I'm gonna bang every whore i can find.

thought you had already done that

im going for a second helping....

[ChargerBill]

Well sheesh...where did THIS thread go wrong? I'm not bashing corporate America, I believe in free enterprise! I don't think the world is coming to an end, but ironically the sky IS actually falling in Texas. Look, this is a desperate situation and I'm feeling it (we all are), and many of us (myself included) aren't even in the path of the hurricane or remotely close to it. Many people will die, MILLIONS will be (have been) torn from their homes, children have lost their parents, parents have lost their children, folks in rest homes and those under urgent care are in jeopardy and many have already died in the aftermath of Katrina. The fact that prices will go up is not debateable...it's just a matter of how much. Many people living on the financial edge will be affected by all of this as the cost of living increases. Of course I'm concerned about my immediate needs (as everyone rightfully is) but I am also concerned about what this will do to the economy, national security, our infrastructure, everything... Also, I've been trying to figure out how I can afford to relocate closer to the disaster and volunteer for a couple of weeks. You see, I'm majorly torn over this...I'm realizing that I may not be able to drive half as much as I am used to due to gas prices and I will have to be more selective at the grocery store, but the flip side is that I want to go volunteer and help...it makes very little sense - I just feel like I need to contribute somehow.I can't even bear to see the empty and desperate expressions on the faces of those who lost everything, their stories are heart breaking, their lives are upside down. Gas will hurt me, but it won't kill me, or take away my home or lively-hood. The hurricane victims aren't even thinking about gas...they're thinking about their missing child, how they will eat, where they will lay their head for the night...which puts it all into perspective for me.





BTW: I use my truck to gather firewood, tow a trailer, go camping about 10 times a year, haul our mtn. bikes when we go somewhere for a ride, go to the dumps, haul yard waste....there's a truck in my driveway for a reason. If I were to get rid of it I'd have to have the firewood delivered, sell the trailer, probably go camping a lot less, get a bike rack, subscribe to weekly garbage pick-up and use someone else's truck for yard waste.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Well sheesh...where did THIS thread go wrong?

Did you really think it wouldnt?

[Ponch ®]

Well sheesh...where did THIS thread go wrong?

Did you really think it wouldnt?

2 years ago it was the war.
Last year it was the election.
This year it's the gas prices.

Im as giddy as a schoolgirl to know what people will be fighting about next year. 

[Charger_Fan]

Well sheesh...where did THIS thread go wrong?

Did you really think it wouldnt?

2 years ago it was the war.
Last year it was the election.
This year it's the gas prices.

Im as giddy as a schoolgirl to know what people will be fighting about next year.  

I'm thinking by next year we'll be onto the high price of un-stained underwear.

[Old Moparz]

Well sheesh...where did THIS thread go wrong?

Did you really think it wouldnt?

2 years ago it was the war.
Last year it was the election.
This year it's the gas prices.

Im as giddy as a schoolgirl to know what people will be fighting about next year.  

I'm thinking by next year we'll be onto the high price of un-stained underwear.

Maybe, but I think the used ones will always cost more.

[Ponch ®]

Maybe, but I think the used ones will always cost more.

the government should step in. Anyone with me for a boycott of "Fruit of the loom"?

[volk68]

I, too am worried about the potential effects of these hurricanes.  That may seem insensitive for some, but I think it is perfectly reasonable.  I feel for those who have lost everything in Katrina and those who may lose everything in Rita, but their suffering doesn't deligitimize the suffering of others. 

In my area, gas is still above 3$ a gallon.  The economy here is tourist based (rafting in the summer, skiing in the winter), and that has taken a steady hit since the fires of 2002 ravaged Colorado.  The only growth here has been from retirees and trust funders which have artificially raised housing costs well beyond the average wage rates.  More and more people have moved outside of the community itself and have a substantial commute into work because housing is completely out of reach with local employment. 

What all that means is that I commute 70 miles a day to get to work.  I have held my job for 8 years, and have lived reasonable well until this year.  Overall cost of living has almost doubled with the gas hikes...but the economic depression on our local economy has frozen wages since 2002.  My expenses have doubled, but I haven't earned a single cent more, and won't until the general economy improves in the area.  I can't afford to move closer to work because of local housing costs, and changing my job would require a substantial move, which would require the sale of my existing property which has been in my family forever.  That's just my situation, but there are scores of others in similar positions.

I am not being alarmist, just stating that the current situation is a little tenuous already...a major gas hike to $4-$5 a gallon with any longevity might just do a lot of folks in.  I am hoping this hurricane fizzles out before it can do this kind of damage and I am not really worried about the scenario above too much, but if the worse were to happen, my life and many others will take a dramatic change, and it isn't going to be good.

[Charger_Fan]

Maybe, but I think the used ones will always cost more.

the government should step in. Anyone with me for a boycott of "Fruit of the loom"?

Sure, why not? Their commercials have gotten kinda lame anyway...they have obviously been hoarding profits for themselves instead of putting it back into quality advertising.

[volk68]

Maybe, but I think the used ones will always cost more.

the government should step in. Anyone with me for a boycott of "Fruit of the loom"?

Sure, why not? Their commercials have gotten kinda lame anyway...they have obviously been hoarding profits for themselves instead of putting it back into quality advertising.

[NHCharger]

According to the local news channel this morning the economy in New Hampshire has already taken a hit because of the high gas prices. Lottery ticket sales are down 4.1%, it's the beginning of the end i tell you. People can't afford to gamble. What's next, cut back on cigarettes, illegal drugs, alcohol.

[Steve P.]

I'm one of the guys that USES a big, gas guzzling truck.. I've owned this truck for only about 6 months and have put over 18,000 miles on it. It's been cross country three times picking up old mopars and a trip up North for a funeral. In the past few weeks I have hauled 7 cars to the junk yard with it and pulled 3 of them out of the woods..

I gassed up today and figured out that all this yanking cars through the woods has taken my milage down to 9.94 mpg.. This makes me sick.. Over the road towing a total of about 5000 pounds, I have done as well as 13mpg. Just the family going over the road we got around 14.6 at best.. (I had a duelly like that too)..    I can tell you that I have been looking for a Dodge w/cummins. I also plan to burn veggie oil.. It'll cost me next to nothing and be better on the environment..

Maybe a Megggggga cab..........

[Badbob]

It just ain't the same without TK73.

More will die in the traffic jam than from the hurricane.

[Brock Samson]

 Seems to me we could all volunteer locally,.. Senior centers, battered women shelters... (Many "tastless"Jokes to follow I'm sure..  ya bastards!  ),
maybe even help the homeless, lots of single women with children and older disabled Vets living waaaaaay below the poverty line. I'm sure your local church has something productive you ca do.. without a magor shift in lifestyle, or outpouring of funds.
  Personally I have faith that the Lord will see us trough, as a species, and individualy. 
  but that's me. 

Bill,..  what's up with those awsome Graphics you was workin on?. 

[bull]

Or you and this "poor little rich kid" (dunno where you got that) could just NOT bury the hatchet.   Whatever you want.

I just fail to understand how you see my divergent views as tantamount to "not caring" about anything like gas shortages or damage or unemployment, etc.   Up is not down and black is not white; you don't have to explain to anyone, including me, that these are problems.   Where I differ from you is that I believe that the free market devises its own solutions to problems - economies have been literally killed by the "kindness" of government meddling in order to "fix" things (see, Great Depression, modern France, etc.).   Like I said, if I've been exasperated and snippy, I'll try to work on that if you care to meet me halfway and not accuse me baselessly of being an uncaring, spoiled little prick.   'Cuz frankly, I'm not.

I suppose it should make no difference to me, especially if you'll just discount everything in textbooks as automatic BS and resort to whining whenever you sense things aren't going your way.   You may be older than me (a fact which you readily pointed out), but I'm not seeing the maturity.   Feel free to surprise me.

Your divergent views are not what I'm basing my opinion on. It's the phony empathy in your 3rd post here in response to Bill's concerns that's so disingenuous it's almost laughable. You've worked a 'few years' and now you seem to claim you understand the plight of the common worker. Give me a break. You have no idea what it means to have to support a family, and given the way you brag about the meaning behind your user name from time to time I doubt you ever will have the guts to put someone else's needs before your own. It's apparent to me that most of your ideals have been plagiarized right out of the latest economics textbook because the only part of life you seem to have experienced thus far is one of ease and privilege. How does one afford to restore a classic car, pay for six years at USC and do nothing but fart around and chase skirts the rest of the time if they don't have lots of cash flowing in from dad? I don't need or want you regurgitating the info from your latest class onto people who routinely experience more of real life in one week than you have in 20+ years. The reason I occasionally attempt to put you in your place is because I do not like arrogant, 22-year-old know-it-alls, who've done almost nothing to contribute to society, tell those who have contributed their entire lives that they just need to suck it up and pay more because that's just the way it is. Basically, I find you clueless and annoying and I've grown tired of trying to penetrate your Kevlar-coated noggin with the facts of life, so I'll stop trying. Have a nice day.

BTW, here's a little psyc to go with the econ: http://www.ptypes.com/narcissisticpd.html

[ChargerBill]

I see a few blown fuses over this topic...so I guess I'm not alone. As of this afternoon I have made a deal to get rid of my truck. I will take a hit on it in the short run (slightly upside down), but will make out in saved gas $$$ in the long run. I found a 1996 Intrepid for real cheap and in great shape...sure it has 150,000 miles, but those V6's are supposed to last a while. Even if I only get 2 years out of it I STILL will be WAY ahead. I also decided to go get my '56 pick-up from my moms yard and get it running again so that I have a truck to use when needed. I also went to the Honda dealership today and found a 2002 CRX 400 for $1,800 and a '98 CBR 600 for $3,800. I would rather have the street bike but $1,800 would allow me to keep my Charger....besides, when i mentioned to the salesman (also the dealership owner) that I was considering selling my Charger he nearly had a heart attack. He said he would help me find a decent bike that would allow me to keep my car...very cool guy.

OK, my disclaimer on the next statement is that it is NOT meant to bash anyone...period. It is only PERSONAL observation. When I was 5 I needed mom and dad to wipe my nose and make my plate at dinner time. When I was 12 yo I knew still needed them but didn't want them to know it. When I was 20 yo I thought I knew more than I really did and I was only worried about getting some, drinking beer and graduating college. When I was 24 I had a daughter as a single parent - sole custody even, and I was still self centered, thought I knew everything and had an answer for everything that I really knew very little about. At about 25 or 26 I realized that I was a self centered idiot and changed my ways...my perspective as a parent trying to make ends meet and care for a child made me realize how much I really didn't know after all - the FIRST time I ever realized this (in my experience most under 25 still need to come to this realization). It put me in touch with the reality of those who had been struggling while I was a simple and immature self centered "young adult". At about 30 I realized that I was STILL learning about life (man, I thought I was done learning...LOL), and about myself and my short comings, and how to deal with others and disappointment and strife and reality...reality actually DID bite at times...I finally understood what that meant. I also realized that   I was the only one who was going to look out for me and my daughter...period. At about 34 or so I came to understand what true compassion meant...and what empathy REALLY felt like. That life ISN'T cut and dry...everyone has a story, a hardship, anxiety, insecurities, shattered dreams, a need for friendship, understanding, love and compassion. Compassion took on a new meaning...it didn't mean "I will solve your problem"...it meant "I'm here for you bud, I can't fix this or even completely understand it, but I care about you and will do anything I can"....and a real man stands by that promise..to help, to be there, to give what they are able to help someone in need. And THAT is how you grow as a person...you become selfless in a sense...you recognize that you are a blip, not even a footnote...and that all you contribute in this world is what you give of yourself to others. You realize that scholars, professionals, encyclopedias, text books, pundits and pontificators don't know everything...and sometimes know nothing of reality...or the plight of the real man. You realize that love is the single most sincere and unselfish emotion...it is the only pure feeling we as humans are capable of, and love in the form of compassion is about as selfless as it gets. The catch is that you don't learn these things until you have experienced certain things in life...not so much as a result of duration, education or age, but a result of heartache, of being broken down and coming back stronger for it, of losing everything and starting over, of experiencing disappointment at the deepest level, of seeing strife first hand, of feeling pain so deep you cannot even utter a sound....and screaming isn't even possible. It is also a result of seeing triumph that is inexplicable...triumph of the heart in the face of insurmountable odds, a result of seeing joy in the face of doom, a result of seeing real life miracles happen...miracles that go beyond explanation by experts, scientists and scholars, a result of climbing out of the pit of despair and reaching the next mountain top once again. And it is my sincerest belief that while most are capable of coming to this point in life, many will not simply because they choose to suffocate the God given spirit within that will allow them to feel...and possibly feel too much..sadly they want to avoid the pain so they then also miss all the joy. They bury their heads in books and facts and equations and try to solve the problems of the world in some board room or on some laptop instead of actually going out and seeing the world for what it is with their own eyes, and lending a hand...their own hand. They wall themselves off from the suffering of people at the most primitive and true level..the level at which they ALSO will suffer, bleed, sweat and cry...both tears of joy and tears of sorrow. Until you do that, until you feel the pains of life, the sadness of friends, the fear of losing the roof over your head or the burning gut from hunger...until you cry with a friend over THEIR loss, until you hug that lonely parentless child or look into the eyes of a sad and frightened rest home resident, until you grab that stranger laying on the ground needing a sandwich and a blanket and help them to their feet...until you experience any, many or even all of these you will not experience life. For once you know these things the triumphs will also take on a new meaning. They are sweeter, brighter, more joyous, more triumphant...the shadows prove the sunlight.

Yes, I am a Christian...at 25 I renewed my commitment to the Lord. I made many mistakes before then, I have made a few too many mistakes since then, and I will unfortunately make many mistakes in the years to come. But you see, I don't have to be perfect... I am a work in progress and the good Lord loves me despite it...and probably even for it. Being a Christian doesn't mean that God shelters you from pain and strife, but it does mean that when these adversities come you will know that there is more...a bigger picture, a greater purpose to it all. I am definitely a better person now than I was then, and hopefully by the grace of God I will be a better person tomorrow and in the years to come.

[Steve P.]

   In a nutshell life is shit. Until you've walked for miles in life's shit, you don't know SHIT........

[Mopar440+6]

Well said Bill! 

I too share the sentiments of Bill, Volk and Strat. Although I do not have a family to care for I do pay my own bills. I am living on my own at 19 years old. Its hard enough to start out on your own while working a full time job. It is harder yet to be living on your own, working only part time, and trying to go to and pay for college. With the current spike in the prices of EVERYTHING, I honestly don't know how I'm going to make ends meet. I'm not an alarmist but this is getting a little scary. A large spike in prices might just put alot of the little guys under...

Steve P.- I'm with ya on looking for the Ram Cummins and VO

AllBlue- Around here the majority DOES use their truck. Granted I live in PA but if you buy a truck here its most likely going to be used and used hard. My dad just bought a brand new F-250 about a week before Katrina hit and it gets used everyday out of necessity. There is no unscratched paint left on the inside of the bed.

Todd- I'm with you on the roadwarrior thing 

[derailed]

Steve, i wish i had known you were looking for one, my friend just sold his 96 extended cab 8 ft, cummins in real nice shape pretty cheap, he just got laid off.

[Ponch ®]

. How does one afford to restore a classic car, pay for six years at USC and do nothing but fart around and chase skirts the rest of the time if they don't have lots of cash flowing in from dad? 

dont forget that he also affords to work out with AC Slater from Saved by The Bell.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

bull, you say that I have a lot to learn, but you pass all these judgments on me without having taken any time to learn about me yourself.   Your judgments aren't correct, but they're also not productive to the thread.   You're obviously not willing to move beyond ad hominem bashing of me, and I'm not willing to continue responding to mostly false accusations.   So I'll stop here.   You can continue bashing me if you like.   Have fun, and have a nice day.

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

[NHCharger]

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do,

I've heard you make all your money by pimping mojo out to fat bored house wives.

[RD]

bull, you say that I have a lot to learn, but you pass all these judgments on me without having taken any time to learn about me yourself.   Your judgments aren't correct, but they're also not productive to the thread.   You're obviously not willing to move beyond ad hominem bashing of me, and I'm not willing to continue responding to mostly false accusations.   So I'll stop here.   You can continue bashing me if you like.   Have fun, and have a nice day.

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

i would pm to ask you, but you blocked me matter of fact i believe your words were "your a nutcase"

[Vainglory, Esq.]

actually, it was wacko - I didn't take too well to proselityzing.

[RD]

actually, it was wacko - I didn't take too well to proselityzing.

i dont take well to those who have to be constantly told their right in order to stroke their ego's. especially when their vanity blinds them from the truth.

but.... that is all i will say on that matter.  dont need to hijack this thread anymore than what it is.

[Shakey]

. How does one afford to restore a classic car, pay for six years at USC and do nothing but fart around and chase skirts the rest of the time if they don't have lots of cash flowing in from dad?  

dont forget that he also affords to work out with AC Slater from Saved by The Bell.

[Shakey]

bull, you say that I have a lot to learn, but you pass all these judgments on me without having taken any time to learn about me yourself.   Your judgments aren't correct, but they're also not productive to the thread.   You're obviously not willing to move beyond ad hominem bashing of me, and I'm not willing to continue responding to mostly false accusations.   So I'll stop here.   You can continue bashing me if you like.   Have fun, and have a nice day.

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

Hey bull, maybe you should read his blog about an "American in Paris", I am sure it won't read like a Doris Day movie script, or maybe it will.

Lighten up boys, we're here for some fun aren't we?

My  22 is still very young, lots to learn yet!

[Steve P.]

Hey Drailed,, Thanks for the thoughts. I hope your buddy gets back to work very soon.. I hate being out of work.. People tell me all the time, (I wish I could stay home, do nothing and collect a paycheck).. I want to kick their asses!! Some people just have NO IDEA what they say or what they are even saying.. An yes, their is a heartless, brainless asshole here on this very thread that thinks he is paying all his tax dollars for me to just sit home and collect ALL HIS MONEY!!!   


Did I just rant off to another subject??   So sorry....

I'll find the right truck eventually.. I'm gonna find one for Bull too.. We can start a revolution from one corner of the States to another. Hahaha.......

[Plumcrazy]

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

Why not enlighten us all?

[Steve P.]

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

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Why not enlighten us all?

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[Vainglory, Esq.]

here's a sampling:
USC tuition covered by a full academic scholarship
miscellaneous living expenses covered by two years of working 2 to 3 jobs at a time while out of school roughly 3 years ago
upkeep maintained by the continued holding of part time work while taking more than a full load of classes completing two majors
wise investments over the past few years, including stock ownership that paid off in dividends and subsequent sales of certain shares
etc.

are we happy now?

[Vainglory, Esq.]

just so you know, I will stop short of posting tax-related documentation.

[Plumcrazy]

People tell me all the time, (I wish I could stay home, do nothing and collect a paycheck).. I want to kick their asses!! Some people just have NO IDEA what they say or what they are even saying

\

I use to say that. But as I've matured and learned more about life than I ever thought existed, I have actually started thinking about what the hell I will do when I retire

[Steve P.]

You're on the right track Plum.. Your thoughts are forward and you have a fine hobby.. Just keep putting what you can away for that rainnnnny dammmmn day...

I DID have the world by the nads by age 37.. I couldn't ask for a better job. Made plenty of money. Had a ton of toys for me and the family to enjoy. I even had a pretty big chunk of change set aside.. No mater how good you think you are doing it can all change in a heartbeat.. It did for my wife in 91' and me in 97'... Double whammy............   

[Plumcrazy]

here's a sampling:
USC tuition covered by a full academic scholarship
miscellaneous living expenses covered by two years of working 2 to 3 jobs at a time while out of school roughly 3 years ago
upkeep maintained by the continued holding of part time work while taking more than a full load of classes completing two majors
wise investments over the past few years, including stock ownership that paid off in dividends and subsequent sales of certain shares
etc.

are we happy now?

Seriously, sounds like you have potential.    After you have raised children (I admit I haven't) paid off a 25 year mortage in 20 years. Saved for your retirement and become financially sound, then you will know what we are talking about.

[Plumcrazy]

I DID have the world by the nads by age 37.. I couldn't ask for a better job. Made plenty of money. Had a ton of toys for me and the family to enjoy. I even had a pretty big chunk of change set aside.. No mater how good you think you are doing it can all change in a heartbeat.. It did for my wife in 91' and me in 97'... Double whammy............     

What you just said is a perfect example of what life teaches you.   

[Troy]

Who says you can't be financially sound and have retirement covered before raising kids and paying off a rediculously long mortgage?

Troy

[Steve P.]

Who says you can't be financially sound and have retirement covered before raising kids and paying off a rediculously long mortgage?

Troy

Hahahahahahaha.................  Troy knows the use of a rubber!!  Hehehe..........

[Silver R/T]

ya this shit is bad... I dont know how people working on minimum wage are making it. This shit is bad and someone has to come  up with the plan how to manage all this crap so hard working class wouldnt pay for all these hurricane bills.

[Plumcrazy]

Who says you can't be financially sound and have retirement covered before raising kids and paying off a rediculously long mortgage?

Troy

Here's a little life lesson for Vainglory (I'm not picking on you).
I bought my house in 1984, what i paid for it seems cheap nowdays but believe me I thought I had a boat anchor around my neck at the time.
I went to the bank to make my first payment as a new homeowner, a whopping $13 came off the principal.  I almost cried walking out of the bank wondering what the hell I had gotten myself into.  Now that I can look back on that day with some perspective I can laugh at it.

[derailed]

Thats exactly how i felt when i made my first payment. I think i started out with 7.75% 30 year loan. Luckly i jumped in on the bandwagon about 4 years ago and refinanced at 5.35% 15 year and my payments only went up $90 a month. I felt like theres a light at the end of the tunnel. I figured i saved over $100,000

[bull]

bull, you say that I have a lot to learn, but you pass all these judgments on me without having taken any time to learn about me yourself.   Your judgments aren't correct, but they're also not productive to the thread.   You're obviously not willing to move beyond ad hominem bashing of me, and I'm not willing to continue responding to mostly false accusations.   So I'll stop here.   You can continue bashing me if you like.   Have fun, and have a nice day.

BTW, if you ever feel like learning how I afford what I do, and what experiences I base my actions on, feel free to PM me.

I know what I need to know. You're a 22-year-old college student and as such there's no statistical, logical, conceivable way you can know as much about life as you might think, thus my "judgements" are undoubtedly correct. If you can assume I don't understand you, even though I and most of the other people here have been where you are and gone, then why can't I assume you you don't understand the everyday goings on of any given man nearly twice your age with kids, a mortgage, two jobs and a whole other boatload of responsibilities that would make most people your age puke out of stress? Every time you write a sentence about your life experience I see nothing but arrogant assumption because you haven't been there. You're in college. Think about it for a minute and then honestly tell me you can relate to a man who's lucky if he has six hours a week to do something he doesn't have to do. Is every minute of your every day spent taking care of something or someone? If you think I'm bashing you so be it but I'd like to think you simply need the written equivalent of a smack on the head to wake you up to reality. You simply do not know what it's like to literally be responsible for the lives of people do you? All you have to worry about is Vainglory so instead of trying to advise everyone on the ins and outs of life, try waiting until you've walked in their shoes before you pass judgement.

So yea, I'm angry about gas prices because that means those six hours I mentioned above are now spent trying to make more money. And it's not just fuel, it's everything else because of fuel. I just read I'm going to get a 15% hike on natural gas which heats my home and my water. So when I hear some smug kid preaching to me about cause and effect or supply and demand it only exacerbates my frustration. I already know all that crap but it doesn't keep me from being upset about the fact I have to work harder for less.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Despite what you may think, what you know about me wouldn't fill a shot glass.  And remember, I didn't claim to know anything about you.  You go on thinking that I'm selfish and irresponsible without taking the time to find out whether or not I have had responsibility for someone other than myself.  You go on thinking that you know how I spend my time without taking the time to find out how much free time I have between my responsibilities.  You go on thinking that you've been in my shoes when you don't even know what my shoes look like - you've never asked.  After all, I can see you're not the type to listen.  Nevertheless, I think that if you did take the time to find out, you might be surprised.

[bull]

Your life experience wouldn't fill a shot glass either.

[Troy]

Does this really need to be discussed here? People sure do make a lot of assumptions on this board but noe of them really need to be public. Try a PM...

Troy