Everyone's buying Toyota's

[Purple440]

Ponch.....first of all, thank you for your commitment to US automakers.    Secondly,  the profits from the Dodges (built outside of US) when back INTO the US - - instead of Japan.  When profits go to Japan,  they can continue to get stronger, and kick our asses harder.

What about all the stuff we sell to other countries?  What if they have your attitude, and stopped buying American imported products because the 3M plant in Japan that employs Japanese workers sends it's profits back to Minnesota?  Think about it.

If the US automakers didn't spend all their time making gas guzzling SUV's, mini vans, and trucks maybe they wouldn't have lost their way.  It's their fault, not ours the consumer.  I have no sympathy for them and I'll drive my Nissan Maxima with a big @#$'en American flag posted on the bumper.  At what point did the American public become indebted to the Big 3 automakers?  They are corporations just like any other and must make products that satisfy the consumer.  There is NO OBLIGATION to buy from these guys.  Plus the interior on most of these cars sucks ass compared to the Nissans I've seen.....my neighbor just got a '08 Altima and man is it a sweet car...keyless entry and start...xm radio...totaly sweet. 

[bull]

What? No one wants to discuss my punctuation observations?

[Troy]

What? No one wants to discuss my punctuation observations?

No, but I think you have issues with your grammar in that last sentence...

Troy

[TUFCAT]

I like all you guys, but I'm really dissapointed in this thread    [BUY AMERICAN]..... now, I'll shut up    

[69DodgeCharger]

I like all you guys, but I'm really dissapointed in this thread  . BUY AMERICAN..... now, I'll shut up    

I wish I could but I don't support industries that don't support me and other working class people. Unfortuanetly I don't see any change on the horizon anytime soon. Not voluntary change at least.

[Khyron]

this thread is still going? I gave up on it.


http://www.spot98.net/htdocs/humour.html

[Brock Samson]

Ya' know I had often wondered why folks drive import cars with American flags on them but now after reading this thread i understand it,..  finally!

[Mike DC]

If the US automakers didn't spend all their time making gas guzzling SUV's, mini vans, and trucks maybe they wouldn't have lost their way.  It's their fault, not ours the consumer.

I agree completely.


Detroit would have been bankrupt by the mid/late 1990s if the SUV boom hadn't bailed them out with a source of easy cash from product lines they'd already developed & perfected long ago.  All they had to do was just dump some luxury options onto their existing truck lines, raise the sticker price 30%, and rake in the money.  Japan had no comparable models to compete with, and the trucks were still "cooler" when they were American-made.  That economic windfall was a total accident in the big scheme of things.  Detroit was 100% reactive in the whole thing and it was not a sign of them being any healthier than before.

That bought Detroit time. A lot of it; maybe even 10-15 more years.  But the core problems never went anywhere.  They could not go head-to-head with Japanese sedans and win the market even at home.

Detroit could have taken that fresh truck/SUV cash flow, buckled down, and invested that money into taking back some territory on the car front.  But did they?  No-o-o.  They just congratulated themselves for being back in black ink since America had come to its senses & starting buying a fresh wave of bloated impractical vehicles like it was 1971 again.  Who needs to fix the core problems with the success of the car lines when you can just overcharge for trucks from now on? 

After all, it's not like the truck/SUV boom is ever gonna END, is it?  Half of America buying 11mpg trucks for $42K seems perfectly sustainable to me, what do you think?  And it's not like America would ever switch to Japanese SUVs & trucks if they ever started making them, right?

[Rolling_Thunder]

YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BUY AMERICAN CARS IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A STRONGER AMERICA!!!.....IF NOT, DON'T BITCH ABOUT YOUR SHITTY JOB, BAD ECONOMY, OR DECREASING QUALITY OF LIFE.

There, I said it- - and if you disagree....Go F-Yourself.     

Why should I buy American ?  they are all made in Mexico or Canada now...    thank you NAFTA - its not like you are taking a job away from an american....    hell americans build toyotas...    mexicans and canadians build domestics....       

My shitty job is restoring muscle cars...   made in Detroit and Hamtrack...    but those are days gone by....   today no "american" car is made in America...       

stronger America ? how is that...   NAFTA means the imports and exports (ie. car parts being shipped to mexico for assembly and cars returning assembled) are not taxed...    so how is it improving America ?  we get no money from it, and the jobs aren't here in the states...     it is a simple greed that the big 3 have - making them see mexican labor is way cheaper...    and now quality is sorely lacking in domestic cars, and customers are sick of it...    so they buy small, economical, and reliable cars for transportation...     I can't blame them...     I personally drive a 1988 Toyota pickup...    little 22R engine with a 5-speed manual...     278,000 miles and here is the maintinance i have done:

1. replace rear end fluid and tranns fluid at 150,000 miles
2. New cap and rotor at 150,000 miles
3. New sets of tires at 137,000 and again at 210,000 miles
4. pulled radiator and had it boiled out at 150,000 miles
5. replaced starter at approx 190,000 miles

That is it...     I havent even changed the damn clutch yet...    278,000 miles....   

compare this to my parent's 1991 GMC Suburban - i'll make a condensed list of the MAJOR issues...

1. went through 11 master cylinders (not exaggerating)
2. fuel pump took a shit at about 80,000 miles
3. transmission went at 73,000 miles
4. went through brake pads about every 12,000 miles
5. got shitty service at local dealerships
6. went through 7 starters
7. and my personal favorite....       ENGINE REBUILD AT 83,000 miles

Sold the thing with 91,000 miles on it...   

So dude - tell me again why I should EVER buy domestic ?

[Troy]

I was actually going to bring the truck market up earlier and decided against it. Oh well. I read that three out of four vehicles that Chrysler sells these days is a light truck. They had it good for several years (late 90s through early 2000s) but then Chevy and Ford redesigned their trucks and the Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra got in the mix. Since then Dodge has been losing market share and the market is shrinking at the same time. The Ford F-series pickup was the best selling vehicle in the US for 24 years and best selling truck for 29 years. The Chevy Silverado was second last year with Dodge Ram in fourth and the Toyota Camry in between in third place. I believe that Camry is now sitting at #1. If you count GMC trucks then GM has combined sales higher than than Ford. The Honda Accord and Civic filled out the top six. Chevy has the first American car at number seven with the Impala (not quite 2/3rds of Camry sales) and the Cobalt at number ten. At eight and nine are two more imports (cars), the Toyota Corolla and Nissan Altima. If the truck market continues to decline then who is going to step up? Who will replace the share of 1.8 million vehicles (more if including the GMC trucks)? The Impala had sales less than 290,000 - which is 289,900 more than they should have sold in my opinion. What a hideous looking car! Not to be left out, Dodge Caravan got bumped from the top ten but still sits at number eleven. SUVs are in free-fall mode so maybe people will just switch to something slightly smaller? Unfortunately, that's where foreign cars have made greater strides than in the truck/large SUV market so competition is much tougher.

Troy

[TUFCAT]

   I love a good debate......but I said (in my earlier post) that I would shut up!    Oh well,  At least you guys know I keep my promises

[bull]

What? No one wants to discuss my punctuation observations?

No, but I think you have issues with your grammar in that last sentence...

Troy

I agree it doesn't exactly flow very well but there's nothing technically wrong with it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

  I love a good debate......but I said (in my earlier post) that I would shut up!    Oh well,  At least you guys know I keep my promises

i totally agree - debates are great - as long as there are no personal attacks made i find them educational.   

[The70RT]

I guess I am lucky so far. My wife's 02 Buick had an intake leak at 60,000 miles. Extended warranty covered that. Nothing else has been done except regular maintenance and is just over 70,000 now. My 01 Ram SLT is at 45,000 now and had a solenoid in the tranny go out at 30,000 and was covered by warranty but. Nothing else besides regular maintenance.  Before my wife had a Lincoln....biggist POS I ever had besides a Honda my son had.....lost thousands on both 

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Personally I LOVE threads like these. It's great to see what others think about globalization and politics without having the thread locked or disappear like they do on Moparts. I've been wanting to jump in on this, but since it has bounced around all over the place (which is great), it has been hard to pick a point to jump in.

However it is clear that many don't really understand the arguments they make regarding "Foreign vs. Domestic" companies, and profits. ... In other words, what makes a company American vs. Foreign".

Since every company that has been brought up is a publicly traded corporation, the stock owners are the recipients of the profits. In other words if you own stock in a company, then that's where the profits go. If you live in the U.S.A. then they come back here. If you live in China or any other location, then they go there!

Toyota is traded on at least three stock exchanges (Japan, U.S. and London), and is nearly 80% owned by non Japanese! The majority is U.S. owned and the rest is split between Europe and Japan (with the rest of the world thrown in)! In other words, Toyota is a U.S. company if majority ownership is what constitutes a U.S. company.

This is the same for MOST corporations. This means that the majority of profits come back here. The BIG effect comes from U.S. jobs! Those that won't buy a Toyota instead of a Chrysler for example, can actually be considered Un-American if U.S. jobs are important to you. To buy an (American) car that is built in Mexico or other non U.S. location instead of a Toyota, which is far more American worker built/produced (and more of the profit going back to the U.S.), is about as Un-American as you can get!

What I find disgusting is the overt attempt by our (so called American companies), with the full (bought and paid for) support of our political machine to bring in as many illegal aliens as possible to displace the few jobs remaining in our country! All so that profits go up by declaring a product as U.S. made instead of (fill in the blank) country made! The fact that this ploy, as well as using an American corporate name, fools some of you is the most destructive factor our country faces! WAKE UP!

There is nothing wrong with globalization. It nearly eliminates the possibility of war as we knew it in the past as globalization introduces mutually beneficial partnerships, but the forced introduction of foreign workers to eliminate U.S. jobs can have no other effect than to turn us into a third world country over time.

Buy a Chrysler product if you want, but at least TRY to understand how destructive that decision is over buying a Toyota!

[moparjohn]

In my opinion I'll stay with the older US cars and maybe a new Ram when the one I have is 15 years old or so.  Also, as far as I'm concerned all new cars are: too small, too many nonsense options, NO CHROME! , and are pains to do even routine maintance on.  I also don't care about where it's made/ who made it, I will however continue to buy Dodge in the future, so far they have been good to me.  John

[twilt]

I guess I am lucky so far. My wife's 02 Buick had an intake leak at 60,000 miles. Extended warranty covered that. Nothing else has been done except regular maintenance and is just over 70,000 now. My 01 Ram SLT is at 45,000 now and had a solenoid in the tranny go out at 30,000 and was covered by warranty but. Nothing else besides regular maintenance.  Before my wife had a Lincoln....biggist POS I ever had besides a Honda my son had.....lost thousands on both 

The sad part of that is that the intakes have been leaking prematurely for 15 years now. My dads 95 Grand Prix was leaking at 30k miles. Even sadder is that they replace it with the same defective part that failed. On the other hand, Fel-pro has a redesigned gasket used by the aftermarket that seems to hold up well.

I really should not bash domestic auto manufacturers. Keep making the junk, my paycheck depends on it. I have a 10 hour job on a Durango waiting for me in the morning, a 14 hour job on a Cadillac, and another GM fuel pump on a Safari van.  The Durango has a leaking heater core. In 10 years, I have probably  replaced 100 or more heater cores. Many are big jobs requiring dash removal. Out of that approx 100, exactly 1 was on an import. A Geo Prizm.  As not to be biased, I must admit that I worked on a "broken" Camry yesterday. The radiator fan switch went bad at 321k miles.

[69DodgeCharger]

Been following this for a while and I have yet to see any accounts of a domestic that can match the reliability of the imports so far? Just a lot of people saying I should buy American because my job depends on it. Well my job doesn't depend on it.....yet. But my company is guilty of cutting corners, reducing quality and workforce and sending bad product to their customers regardless of the opinions of us hourly workers. I'm just trying to make the most of it while it lasts.

[The70RT]

I guess I am lucky so far. My wife's 02 Buick had an intake leak at 60,000 miles. Extended warranty covered that. Nothing else has been done except regular maintenance and is just over 70,000 now. My 01 Ram SLT is at 45,000 now and had a solenoid in the tranny go out at 30,000 and was covered by warranty but. Nothing else besides regular maintenance.  Before my wife had a Lincoln....biggist POS I ever had besides a Honda my son had.....lost thousands on both 

The sad part of that is that the intakes have been leaking prematurely for 15 years now. My dads 95 Grand Prix was leaking at 30k miles. Even sadder is that they replace it with the same defective part that failed. On the other hand, Fel-pro has a redesigned gasket used by the aftermarket that seems to hold up well.

I really should not bash domestic auto manufacturers. Keep making the junk, my paycheck depends on it. I have a 10 hour job on a Durango waiting for me in the morning, a 14 hour job on a Cadillac, and another GM fuel pump on a Safari van.  The Durango has a leaking heater core. In 10 years, I have probably  replaced 100 or more heater cores. Many are big jobs requiring dash removal. Out of that approx 100, exactly 1 was on an import. A Geo Prizm.  As not to be biased, I must admit that I worked on a "broken" Camry yesterday. The radiator fan switch went bad at 321k miles.

I did see one olds go 200k on the original intake (plastic) gasket. That's why I got the car it finally went. Yeah the Felpro rubber metal ones are the norm for a replacement. I have did a few there kinda fun. I hope they put the good ones on the ole ladys car.

[Mike DC]

 
If they ever reproduce Charger unibodies (or even just enough of the big sections of it that you can replace almost anything), I'm gonna start to wonder about the true economics of just building myself a decent 2nd-gen with a EFI/OD 318 and literally using it for daily transportation most of the time. 

It would initially cost a ton, but so does any modern brand-new car and you're pissing it away with those.  At least I would be in a car that I liked most of the time.  And I would actually WANT to get it fixed when the Charger breaks down.  And I already know everything about doing it.  And the parts aren't all plastic sh*t right from the design stage.  And everything isn't jammed into an engine bay that's too small to swing a wrench . . . 

   

[Brock Samson]

one reason for all the "trucks" in the line up is that the manufacturers get a CAFE break as trucks are exempt from the MPG quotas...
like the PT Cruiser and the caliber and the magnum... a flat load floor make the vehicle classification a truck... 
it all has to do with fleet averages...
i know it's weird but that's our Govt. Regs for ya'..

[Mike DC]

Yeah, very true.

A wise industry would realize that the MPG thing is a loophole that won't stay oven forever, and the more money they make on it the more likely it is to get clamped-down upon.  So of course their long-term survival still depends on winning back the car market from Japan, and the extra SUV money is a great chance to get started on it.


But that's not how Detroit thinks.  It makes too much sense. 

When the SUV/truck thing inevitably starts to really die down, Detroit is gonna be stuck trying to stay in black ink based on the car market (which they haven't seriously tried to win back from Japan since the 1970s).  They'll be totally shocked/unprepared and they'll lose big-time.  Then they'll all declare bankruptcy & get massive gov't bailouts & avoid paying out their legacy costs.  It's all been obviously coming for years.