Everyone's buying Toyota's

[Brock Samson]

i like what Troy said about buying a lease return, that's what I did i waited two years for a 300 M with the PHP (Performance Handeling Package) to come off lease and got one in a color combo i liked. I only paid $15K with a 5 yr. drive train warranty, and i havent needed it, i have had some problem with the too brittle plastics, but zero mechanical problems... The M listed for nearly $32K new.
  That's while I'll wait two years after intro to buy my next vehicle.
  i understand there are particualr drivetrain combos that are problematic for every make so i research and stay away from them.
Toyota engine sludge problems are well documented and the Prius MPG isn't as advertised, besides it's an awfully bad handeling car.
  but it just kills me that we as a united nation spent considerable effort to beat the Germans and Japanese at their own game, not once but twice, but those Vet's grandkids are turning their backs on the very industries that whupped both the Zeros and the ME 109...
And now "only  jews only drive Nissans and Hummers, ah yes Hummers"...

(thanks to mustanghater for that enlightening  fact. Who knew?)   

   
So go buy your Lexus or BMW or whatever it's a free country.
I'll find a well designed mopar with a proven drivetrain.
i'm gonna finish this rant with the e-mail forworded to me from Dave the Man behind ALLPAR.com



"First - Chrysler Group is dead. Long live Chrysler LLC.

We have suffered under Daimler for nine years, watching market share spiral
downwards, the lead in minivans disappearing (so that the minivan of first
choice for most buyers has become the Odyssey), the entire small-car segment
abandoned, the B-vans abandoned, Plymouth abandoned, and the PT Cruiser
abandoned; product introductions dragged out by years, so that the LX cars
appeared, according to some accounts, three years late; and fervent cost-cutting
that was obvious to customers. Chrysler Corporation had astounding profits and
increases in both customer loyalty and new customer attraction in 1996, 1997,
and 1998; and losses just about every year after being acquired. Many excellent
people retired or moved to other companies, benefitting Toyota, Ford, and
others.

But those times are, hopefully, over.

Chrysler has introduced a new lifetime powertrain warranty, and we can answer
some of your questions about it.

The Caliber SRT-4 is coming, and we have details on the hopped-up wagon as well.


For those who prefer to read about the old times, when Chrysler was an
industrial empire with might across segments and continents, we have an article
on the American heavy duty commercial trucks produced by Chrysler Corporation -
the Dodge tractor-trailer trucks, box trucks, and more.

Finally, we have solutions for truck owners with the New Venture Gear manual
transmissions, who are looking for less expensive replacement oil.

Next week, which is to say late Monday, we will have new features - a tech
article, more from the "prime times," a muscle truck, and more on a
fleet-vehicle segment. Was that a good teaser? Find out next week, when we will
feature three brand new pages and one serious update."

http://www.allpar.com/

 

[69DodgeCharger]

" but those Vet's grandkids are turning their backs on the very industries that whupped both the Zeros and the ME 109"


Wrong.....Those industries with the tacit approval of our Govt. turned their back on them. As long as big business is in bed with the Govt. it will always be that way. Greed is a very powerful force that very few can resist for very long.

[Brock Samson]

Does that include the "Industrial Military Complex"? 

[Mike DC]

For years, Detroit didn't make any cool/fast/fun cars that kids could afford, and they didn't make any cheap/practical/affordable cars that were as good as the Japanese sedans (which the kids first inherited as teenagers FROM THEIR PARENTS).  And now people blame the kids for defecting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry that Toyota is selling Camrys to a market that used to buy Mopar A-bodies, but that's nobody's fault but Detroit's. 
Detroit ignored the quality gap for decades after consumers started noticing it during the '70s gas crunch. 

Maybe they've worked to close it in recent years but right now it's too little too late.  Changing a perception like that takes a long time, and I don't think Detriot even got even with Japan's quality until the late 1990s.  Detriot hasn't been serious about quality for nearly long enough yet.

 

[69DodgeCharger]

Does that include the "Industrial Military Complex"? 

It especially includes them and all the Contractors they use. Trust me, my company makes parts for the Military Hummers and well.....Lets just say the Military isn't getting what they are paying for. So in essence you and me as taxpayers are not getting what we pay for. I just happen to get a little slice back because I work for them.

[wetfeetmi]

 Has anyone seen "Who Killed the Electric Car"?  I know it is slanted to the left, but it gives us a little insight into exactly what 69 said

Those industries with the tacit approval of our Govt. turned their back on them. As long as big business is in bed with the Govt. it will always be that way. Greed is a very powerful force that very few can resist for very long

about industry and govt. in bed with each other is right on. The industry has slit it's own throat and the self serving, short sighted administration that has been "in control" is to blame.

[dpm68]

If Toyota's so great, why do they have, and need a Service Department.  BTW they are always full of broken down Toyota's when I glance in there.
Maybe they aren't broken down? My dealership was offering lifetime oil changes. Plus some people always have the dealership do maintenance. I can drive by nearly every dealership (any brand) that I know and see a full service department which only points out that every piece of machinery requires maintenance.

If anyone can tell me a better motor for longevity and service other than the Toyota 22-RE, I will buy it. Carry on...

[Brock Samson]

i dunno,..  the slant 6 or 318?.. 

[dpm68]

Aaah yes, Chrysler's great leaning tower of power...I'll give you that one Brock.

[71ChallengeHer]

i dunno,..  the slant 6 or 318?.. 

[pettyfan43]

Everybody has an opinion about what they like and what they choose to own.

The political jabs are ridiculous because the same thing has been going on since the early 90s and we all know slick willy was in charge then.  It's just political hay to be made because they have no other logical argument to make their point.

I own Mopars because my Dodge trucks have all given outstanding service, but I'm funny, I actually MAINTAIN my vehicles. Getting ready to do a transmission and diff service on my 04 Hemi 1500 right now.

Everybody has strong opinions on what they feel is the best vehicle, I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT own a Japanese car, not gonna happen, save your breath!

I worked in the car business for ten years. Foreign and domestic, I've seen Infiniti (Overpriced Nissan) Lexus (overpriced toyota) and Mitsubishi vehicles with the engines apart with internal problems, just like I have seen Dodges,  I have also seen all of these with 350k on them and they are still going like a swiss watch. The difference? Usually OWNER MAINTAINENCE! The common thread? They are ALL MECHANICAL DEVICES!!!!!!!!! They ARE GOING to break, there is no getting around that! NO MECHANICAL DEVICE goes forever. It is that simple.

Guess what? You WILL SEE more Dodges in the shop with problems because THERE ARE MORE on the road than Lexus and Infiniti!

People get so worked up and get so anti this and anti that. I've been in the business, and I have seen it first hand! Know why I won't own Japanese cars? My Mother worked at the Chrysler Electronics plant in Huntsville Alabama for 27 years. AMERICAN cars paid the bills and kept a roof over our heads.

My Grandfather fought in the Army, he lost his left eye and was left for dead on the beach at Normandy. He Survived, and lived about 25 more years. HE fought for this country, earned TWO purple hearts and he didn't do that to help the Japanese, that is just MY take on it and I will keep driving my AMERICAN IRON and be happy. They have not given me a REASON to change vehicles, and to be blunt, I have a buddy with a 2002 Honda Accord, I rode in the car up to a model show i Nashville TN, It was uncomfortable, tinny and he drives like a madman so the WHOLE DAMN WAY the seat belts kept getting tighter and tighter!

My truck and really most everything else I have had are a LOT more comfortable! Had another buddy that bought a new Tacoma when they came out, Rode in that thing about 2.5 hours to a show, I had a 94 Ram 1500 at the time. My truck was solid and felt good, The Tacoma was like a tin can! Last time I saw him, he was driving an F-150.  This is personal REAL WORLD experience.

I'll keep my Dodge.

[Silver R/T]

if that is the case dont buy gas unless it is american gas! Dont buy TVs, Computers, Phones.... and well most everything else! There are american flags made in china! If that is your theory then you better make it eveerything, not just cars!

Exactly, Im sure last burger you ate was from Chinese cow lol. America relies on other countries for products more than any other country. US imports more than exports so until that changes there's not going to be a strong economy. As far as toyotas they will run forever as long as you maintain them properly. We have 96 Lexus ES300, while it runs fine it still is expensive to fix things that break on 11 yr old car.

[TUFCAT]

I'll TRY  to say this nicely:

EVERYBODY should put American cars back on their shopping list. Test and compare.  You will find the quality, innovation, luxury and fuel economy you may have only thought was found with imports.

If you think Toyoya is trouble free - - -  In January, Toyota settled a class-action lawsuit involving 3.5 million cars that may have been damaged by engine oil sludge problems, including Lexus vehicles.

The American auto industry directly and indirectly provides income to millions. Even when import manufacturers build facilities in the U.S., it impacts only thousands of American workers.   Japanese automakers employ only 3,600 American workers in research and development, while 65,000 Americans are employed in automotive-related jobs in Michigan alone.

[Mike DC]

I agree about the researchers. 

Assembling cars in the U.S. makes a big perception dent, but in reality it's only something like 10% of the total money spent on each vehicle. 
More like 2/3 of the investment is done on the drawing board, and that's still Japanese money for Toyota and American money for Detriot.

   

[Troy]

Japanese automakers employ only 3,600 American workers in research and development, while 65,000 Americans are employed in automotive-related jobs in Michigan alone.

You need to compare the same numbers - not R&D vs "automotive-related" jobs. Toyota has 6,900 employees at Georgetown, KY alone (the city only has around 20,000 residents). I think the last count was over 38,000 directly employed by Toyota in North America (4,230 in Ontario with another new plant on the way and 150 in Mexico). How many *were* employed by US automakers in Michigan before they exported the jobs or cut them outright? How is Detroit's economy going? With the American manufacturers stumbling we should actually be happy that someone can step in and fill the gap or we'd just have a lot more unemployed people and dying cities.

From WikiPedia:
Toyota directly employs around 38,340 people in North America. It has made around $16.8 billion in direct investments in North America. It has in total produced 14.8 million vehicles, 2.5 million vehicles sales (2005), 39.2 million total vehicles sales, and purchased $26.1 billion worth of "parts, materials and components" as of December 2005 in North America. It has 1,745 North American dealers and has given around $301 million as philanthropy to the United States between 1991 and 2005.

Last Friday Ford recalled 3.6 million vehicles due to faulty cruise control switches which may catch fire. In May, Chrysler recalled 400,000 mini vans due to airbags that may not deploy. In March, Chrysler recalled 500,000 Durangos and Liberties due to fire problems. Earlier 438,000 Liberties were recalled due to front suspension problems. In December, Chrysler recalled 62,400 vehicles to fix brakes that "may fail to work". Last May Chrysler recalled 40,000 cars with the 2.7 because leaky brakes could cause an engine fire. In 2005, Chrysler recalled 600,000 Durangos and Dakotas because the wheels could fall off when the front suspension collapses. Honestly, I'd rather deal with sludge. There are many, many web sites devoted to exposing the quality problems (and refusal to fix them) with American cars. Yes, they are getting better (as I've said before) but they still have a long way to go. It's interesting to note that Toyota's quality suffered once they started making cars here. Coincidence?

If you look hard enough you can find flaws in anything - especially when you are talking about millions of products manufactured at high rates. There was an interesting point in one article that even with 99.7% perfection you still have over five cars per day with something wrong (assuming 2,000 cars per day at a single plant). If every part in the vehicle had that same error margin then the issues grow exponentially. No one is perfect - but some are certainly better than others.

With any business, you have to make what people want to buy or you won't be in business long. If car companies made what people wanted and gave them a good value for their hard-earned money they'd never worry about sales/profits. Let the American companies make a car that appeals to me and has some value to me and I'll buy it. However, I won't be buying just to help a charity case.

Troy

[Brock Samson]

" It's interesting to note that Toyota's quality suffered once they started making cars here. Coincidence?"


  i'm suprised and shocked you'd say this... so that's why you wanna buy a scion?. 

[TUFCAT]

With the American manufacturers stumbling we should actually be happy that someone can step in and fill the gap or we'd just have a lot more unemployed people and dying cities.

I ceratinly don't want to start a fight with Troy (our administator and site owner) because I usually agree   with him  - - - BUT!!  

Troy, with all due respect, go back and re-read your statement on  "......unemployed people and dying cities"....!!!  You infer we should be glad for Toyota and their divine benevolence for coming in and "filling the gaps" for the loss of American jobs due to forgein competition?  Let's get this straight!!!  NO jobs are being created, they are just being transfered... Yes, in fact, our Michigan cities are dying due to the growth of Japenese industry and construction of US based plants. Still, there are people like you (and the media) who have the balls to actually "Thank" them for coming in like hero's and saving the workforce they are responsible for displacing.  Come on Troy, you're a smart guy...... do better than that     

[Ponch ®]

YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BUY AMERICAN CARS IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A STRONGER AMERICA!!!.....IF NOT, DON'T BITCH ABOUT YOUR SHITTY JOB, BAD ECONOMY, OR DECREASING QUALITY OF LIFE.

Oh ok..I don't bitch about any of those things. BTW - I drive a good old "American" 2006 Dodge Charger...built in Canada. A buddy of mine drives a RAM truck...built in Mexico. My mom's Toyota was built in good old Kentucky.

[TUFCAT]

Ponch.....first of all, thank you for your commitment to US automakers.    Secondly,  the profits from the Dodges (built outside of US) went back INTO the US - - instead of Japan.  When profits go to Japan,  they can continue to get stronger, and kick our asses harder.

[Troy]

I forgot to mention that Chrysler has been a German company for what, 10 years now? Their profits aren't staying in Detroit either. Under their new American ownership they are cutting another 13,000 American jobs, shutting down at least one plant, and reducing shifts at others. Toyota is building plants and hiring people as fast as they can but they're the bad guys?

Troy

[Troy]

" It's interesting to note that Toyota's quality suffered once they started making cars here. Coincidence?"


  i'm suprised and shocked you'd say this... so that's why you wanna buy a scion?. 

Scion's are 100% made in Japan. Look it up.

Troy

[bull]

The only thing I have to say about this thread is that there should not be an apostrophe in the word "Toyotas" in the title. The apostrophe placed between the a and the s designates singular possessive when the word is supposed to be plural. However, the apostrophe in "Everyone's" is correct because it's a conjunction of "everyone is" and not possessive in this case (although it's difficult to prove the author knew this when he/she wrote it).

[69DodgeCharger]

With the American manufacturers stumbling we should actually be happy that someone can step in and fill the gap or we'd just have a lot more unemployed people and dying cities.

I ceratinly don't want to start a fight with Troy (our administator and site owner) because I usually agree   with him  - - - BUT!!  

Troy, with all due respect, go back and re-read your statement on  "......unemployed people and dying cities"....!!!  You infer we should be glad for Toyota and their divine benevolence for coming in and "filling the gaps" for the loss of American jobs due to forgein competition?  Let's get this straight!!!  NO jobs are being created, they are just being transfered... Yes, in fact, our Michigan cities are dying due to the growth of Japenese industry amd construction of US based plants. Still, there are people like you (and the media) who have the balls to actually be "Thanking" them for coming in like hero's and saving the workforce they are responsible for displacing.  Come on Troy, you're a smart guy...... do better than that     

No Jobs are being created?.....Well who's building these products then? Somebody must be and I bet those people are very happy to be working for Toyota and Honda.

"Our Michigan cities are dying to the expansion and growth of Japanese auto plants in the U.S.".....Any data to back that up? Or could it be that the us Auto industry has whored out every component aspect of their manufacturing to the lowest bidder. Like all American industry does these days.

Then there is the UAW. I liken this organizaton to a giant fat parasite that feeds both from the company and their members. They have lost touch with the realities of the new "Manufacturing World" and are in for a very rude awakening.

Hmmmm a new American vehicle....let me reflect back on the customer service and reliability I received with my 3 previous ones......That didn't take long No thanks. I don't buy products from people that won't stand behind them and use every excuse known to man including lying and outright fabrication to avoid their responsibility in the matter.

The Japanese aren't the ones killing the Big 3. they have been slitting their own throat for many, many years and now the damage is done. Perception is 90% of reality.  If you were to take a random poll on the street and ask people what kind of customer service they had received from their dealer/manufacturer when it came time to address an issue you would probably find it very dissapointing. I'm going with whoever is giving me the best value for my dollar. I will never, ever again a new vehicle from the big 3, been burned 3 times in a row. I'll stick with my used rice grinders and pocket the extra money I save.

[Troy]

With the American manufacturers stumbling we should actually be happy that someone can step in and fill the gap or we'd just have a lot more unemployed people and dying cities.

I ceratinly don't want to start a fight with Troy (our administator and site owner) because I usually agree   with him  - - - BUT!!  

Troy, with all due respect, go back and re-read your statement on  "......unemployed people and dying cities"....!!!  You infer we should be glad for Toyota and their divine benevolence for coming in and "filling the gaps" for the loss of American jobs due to forgein competition?  Let's get this straight!!!  NO jobs are being created, they are just being transfered... Yes, in fact, our Michigan cities are dying due to the growth of Japenese industry amd construction of US based plants. Still, there are people like you (and the media) who have the balls to actually be "Thanking" them for coming in like hero's and saving the workforce they are responsible for displacing.  Come on Troy, you're a smart guy...... do better than that     

People can have discussions without fighting. I have my *opinions* and other people have theirs. I'm not saying that any are wrong but I don't change my opinions without a lot of convincing and I'm sure most others are the same.

I don't care if it's Toyota or someone else but, when everyone is leaving you hope someone can take up the slack. The alternative to having foreign car companies move here is that everyone moves out so then where are you? I take what I can get. I'm by no means praising anyone - just pointing out the obvious (a job is better than no job).

Staying on my stating-the-obvious track, business is a competition. To be the best requires continuous hard work and dedication. Somewhere along the line the American car companies lost sight of that. This is what allowed others to move in - not the other way around. If you want to be the heavyweight champion of the world then you have to constantly train to beat all challengers. If you get lazy, slow, and fat you'll get crushed. Propping up a company with inferior products/services because of their name/history only makes the situation worse and allows it to drag on until it's too late. I understand some amount of loyalty to a company that has treated you right in the past but there has to be a limit. In the case of established businesses you have to also cater to the next generation (while, hopefully, not alienating your existing customers). I'm sure it's not easy and I don't have all the answers. I'm tired of hearing how the US can't compete though.

Troy

[Brock Samson]

" It's interesting to note that Toyota's quality suffered once they started making cars here. Coincidence?"


  i'm suprised and shocked you'd say this... so that's why you wanna buy a scion?. 

Scion's are 100% made in Japan. Look it up.

Troy

  i know/knew that, that's why i said it..

so scions have no defects cause they are built by japanese workers and imported here, so that was my point...
BTW: there are loads of scions here in san fran... three on my block, but of course there are a dozen accords another six or so civics and several camerys.
one ' 05 chrysler 300, besides mine... and one dodge minivan...