Everyone's buying Toyota's

[TUFCAT]

I throw rocks at Japenese cars.  Hate me if you want......BUT

YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BUY AMERICAN CARS IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A STRONGER AMERICA!!!.....IF NOT, DON'T BITCH ABOUT YOUR SHITTY JOB, BAD ECONOMY, OR DECREASING QUALITY OF LIFE.

There, I said it- - and if you disagree....Go F-Yourself.     

By the way, the Canadians are included.  Canada has strong ties to the US Economy through Ford, GM and Chrysler.

[69charger2002]

 

i love america.. freedom of choice. freedom of speech

[Mean 318]

if that is the case dont buy gas unless it is american gas! Dont buy TVs, Computers, Phones.... and well most everything else! There are american flags made in china! If that is your theory then you better make it eveerything, not just cars!

[TUFCAT]

i love america.. freedom of choice. freedom of speech

You can LOVE it all you want - - as I'm sure you do  - just don't bitch about the economy if you're not supporting our industries (whenever you can). 

[69charger2002]

i'm not bitchin. get your facts straight. i don't have a honda, yota or any other foreign crap in my driveway.

[TUFCAT]

Everyone's buying Toyota's

I'm not.

me neither.

Sorry, 69charger2002.....I should have looked at your previous post.  : 

[69charger2002]

that's what i THOUGHT!     
trav

[Khyron]

Yeah good point..... I mean who wants things like reliability, strong resale value, good gas mileage, low maintainence costs.  I mean I should buy from the Big 3 with their stellar products, customer sevice and unmatched reliability right? Do my part to support the UAW. Yeah.........of course I should.

Thanks, you just described by GTP Perfectly, glad to see your comming around 

*EDIT* and to add, I guess you just described your Charger in that as well, so now you fall back to the whole "I don't depend on it as a daily driver" still sounds very hypocritical to me. My Jeep had strong resale value. My GTP had great mileage if I don't beat the shit out of it. 25.5 miles to the gallon on a supercharged V6. Now comes the fit and fitness issues, hmm, my GTP has leather, power everything, heads up display, sunroof, no leaks, no squeaks, no problems.

I wouldn't generalize all Domestics so fast. I don't remember bashing the Import, just putting a joke out there. <you have seen my past posts right?> but of course, you need to go right after the Domestics. Did it make you feel better? will you sleep well at night knowing you put a American car owner guy in his place?

I've owned over 50 cars, ALL domestics. I'm bought, driven, fixed and sold. I've never lost money. So there goes the resale again.

go hug your Toyota while you're all pumped up from "Pwning" me.

[69DodgeCharger]

"I throw rocks at Japenese cars."...........Yeah right. When was the last time you threw a rock at any car.


"You can LOVE it all you want - - as I'm sure you do    - just don't bitch about the economy if you're not supporting our industries (whenever you can)."   

Oh....must be the same industries that outsource our jobs to foreign contries, manipulate our energy prices, are locked at the hip with the Federal Govt, cut insurance benefits and pass them on to the employees who can least afford it. The same industries that take your money out of your check for a pension and squander it and then file bankruptcy so they don't have to  pay it back. The same industries that continue to cut corners in safety and quality every chance they get in the name of the almighty dollar?. And let's not forget the Banking and Medical/Pharmaceutical industries. Or the Insurance industry.......Those industries? Yeah I'm real inclined to support them.

I got a better idea. Instead I'll just play the game the same way they do....Who's giving me the best bang for my buck? I don't care where it's made, or who suffers in the meanwhile. Just give me more for less just like the "industries" want. When it all goes belly up I'll just get it fromt he next cheapest source....Just like they do.

Nice patriotic speech there but it doesn't mean squat in todays world. It would be nice if it did but that's not reality anymore. For instance my company can buy machined to spec parts from India and China cheaper than they can buy the raw castings from Wisconsin just across the lake. Now what do you think they decided to do? Lost about 20-25 positions out of that one. So should I continue to support that industry the same way they have supported us? I don't think so. And before you spout off about the inferior quality of the imported product in our case it has less defects and tighter tolerances than we could make in house because the company refuses to upgrade their equipment. Instead they try to scrape by with 20-25 year old machinery patched together any way they can just to "get through the shift" So I don't know where you come from but that basically is the big FU to me. So that is the same thing I am saying to them.

By the way Good Luck even finding American made products anymore

[Khyron]

one more thing. I don't throw rocks and I don't give love it or leave it speech's. Domestic or not, someone throws a rock at my car..... will have a very bad day.

[pettyfan43]

I've never owned a "foreign" car and don't plan to, I have owned 6 Dodge trucks including TWO Dakotas, a 91 and a 94 (Never ANY front end shake by the way) and 4 full sized, The American company that doesn't build cars here anymore built my current 04 Ram 1500 in St Louis right along side Route 66 And 80 % or better of my truck was sourced in the USA, Doesn't get much more American than that. BUT my 94 and 97 Ram trucks were both built in Mexico, they were BOTH great trucks without any problems.

My wife has a 99 Taurus Wagon that was built in Kentucky that has 155k on it and is still a great car, I would put that car's service record up against anything!

No not EVERYBODY is buying toyotas and nissans, but that is what makes America great, we all have the CHOICE to own and enjoy what we want, if someone buys a new Tundra (God knows why, it is the ugliest truck I have EVER seen) the truck is built here and the engines are built in the plant about 10 miles from my house.
There are an awful lot of AMERICANS employed building those "foreign" cars, Selling those cars and servicing/repairing those cars.

By the way, that Tundra has a nasty habit of eating the camshaft and which requires the engine be replaced! YEP that is reliability! That new truck and new engine smell!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The chink in Toyota's armor is getting larger.

But as I said, I won't buy one, but as Americans, people have DIED to make sure we have the right to own what we like. Now when cars start coming from CHINA, THEN you will see a true POS! They can't even make kids toys that are safe!

[68chrgrwife]

Hey just a thought, but foriegn cars are pretty cheaply made and break down quiet a bit thus making us americans go to a dealership or other repair shop here in america to get it fixed...I contribute to the economy in that sense......I own a Honda Civic (for daily driving, gas is cheaper for us that way) and it breaks down and I have to get it fixed!

[Purple440]

Oh....must be the same industries that outsource our jobs to foreign contries,

Exactly, loyalty needs to go both ways IMO. 

[69DodgeCharger]

Yeah good point..... I mean who wants things like reliability, strong resale value, good gas mileage, low maintainence costs.  I mean I should buy from the Big 3 with their stellar products, customer sevice and unmatched reliability right? Do my part to support the UAW. Yeah.........of course I should.

Thanks, you just described by GTP Perfectly, glad to see your comming around 

*EDIT* and to add, I guess you just described your Charger in that as well, so now you fall back to the whole "I don't depend on it as a daily driver" still sounds very hypocritical to me. My Jeep had strong resale value. My GTP had great mileage if I don't beat the shit out of it. 25.5 miles to the gallon on a supercharged V6. Now comes the fit and fitness issues, hmm, my GTP has leather, power everything, heads up display, sunroof, no leaks, no squeaks, no problems.

I wouldn't generalize all Domestics so fast. I don't remember bashing the Import, just putting a joke out there. <you have seen my past posts right?> but of course, you need to go right after the Domestics. Did it make you feel better? will you sleep well at night knowing you put a American car owner guy in his place?

I've owned over 50 cars, ALL domestics. I'm bought, driven, fixed and sold. I've never lost money. So there goes the resale again.

go hug your Toyota while you're all pumped up from "Pwning" me.

88 Dakota bought brand new the first 60,000 miles I had to replace the brakes 3 times the transmission/transfer case and rearend. The driveline vibrated forever and never could be cured although the engine was awesome 225k on  it when I sold it. The dealer was a total prick on every warranty issue I ever had with it.

97 Ram 1500 extended cab 52,000 miles leaking fluid from both axles, transmission, transfer case and steering gear box...not to mention eating a battery and alternator during that time. Dealer response "normal seepage" and I must have drained the battery dead or done something to fry the alternator.

2000 Dakota Sport 4x4....A total piece of shit 12 miles a gallon, shook so bad at highway speeds it was frightening used oil bad and that was all by 33,000 miles Again no help from the dealer service dept. or Company reps on any of these isssues.....Just a bunch of bullshit excuses.

92 Toyota Tercel...$200... M.P.G. 35... 27,400 miles since purchase....Total repair cost.....$0 uses a quart of oil about every 1,500-1,800 miles, no fluid leaks, excellent brakes (something my Dodges and my current Ford Ranger have never had) Miles on Said vehicle 179,000+  So you tell me why I should go with a domestic? I never beat on my vehicles (except the Toyota, it is the only one that can handle it) I don't "4 wheel" with them, I don't overload or try to tow to heavy a load with them, but they have all been miserable failures for the cost incurred. I have yet to hear a Toyota or Honda owner make similar complaints. So I'm sticking with what's good. Next truck will be a Tacoma.


As far as the Charger I consider it a toy, that may or may not ever get put together if I can ever get the bills paid down enough to do so. So it doesn't compare to the argument here. Maybe you don't like what I say but I'm not lying. So how would you feel? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you continue to be such a "strong supporter" of American Industry? Because they certainly won't support you.

[Chatt69chgr]

I almost have to laugh about this thread.  In 1994, I ordered a new Taurus.  It's a good thing we bought the 6 year 75,000 mile warranty with it (Ford Warranty).  At 25k, I started smelling antifreeze.  No leaks.  Dealer says they all smell like that--no problem.  We kept taking it in.  By 55,000, the heads had been pulled three times and 2 weeks after the last time, the head gaskets failed again and let antifreeze into the oil system destroying the engine.  Ford's answer, a "new" engine.  I thought, well, I guess that would be an OK solution.  But--------it's a part.  So warranty---12 mo or 12k miles.  And there are no "new" engines.  They are all rebuilt.   They put it in and the Manager of the Service dept told me I should be satisfied with what they were doing.  I wanted my original 3 yr or 36k mile warranty on the "new" engine.  He said no.  I have to thank the really nice girl who was our service advisor.  She secretly told us about a extended warranty we could buy from Ford for the long block for $350 (they got rid of those 6 months later).  Service Manager had never mentioned it.  Now here's the interesting part.  I asked to talk to the Ford district rep.  They said fine and would call me.  They never called.  But I kept checking and found out when he was going to be there and just showed up.  I wanted them to give me my $350 back.  His response.  NO.  I said I would like to take it to the next level and could I just get his boss's name and phone number.  NOBODY at the dealership including him would tell it to me.  And that wasn't all the problems we had with the car.  Four spedometers failed; the radiator failed; the rear window motor failed; the ac failed; and the Range sensor in the transmission failed---twice.  I had owned a Ford truck that I bought new in 1973 and kept 29 years.  But I can't see myself buying another Ford product.  Not after the way we were treated.  So I went out in 2002 and bought my wife a new Toyota Camry.  We have it today.  It gets 34 mpg on the Interstate and the only thing we have put on it is tires, gas, oil, and filters.  That's why people buy Toyotas.  I think we will always have to have a little grocery getter like that around with the gas being the price it is now.  But I still have my 2005 Dodge Quad Cab Hemi and I absolutely love it.  I am working on my 69 Charger which will have a 440/4sp.  And I do plan on buying a new Challenger when the dust settles and you can get a reasonable deal.  I figure that will be probably a year after they come out next April.  So I still love American cars but didn't have much choice when it came down to a reliable daily driver for my wife.

I think my story pretty well exemplifies the problems (and successes) of the American Automotive industry.  They intentionally chose to build a inferior product and got caught with their pants down.  And people got sick and tired of their cars constantly needing repairs and spending more time in the shop than on the road-----not to mention the money involved.  So they go looking for something that is reliable and gets good gas milage for a daily driver.  And they buy a Toyota or Honda.

There is a lot of things we could do to live in a stronger America but propping up poorly managed car companies is not one of them.  The reason we have shitty jobs, a bad economy, and decreasing quality of life is simply that a small percentage of the people in this country have managed to get ALL of the money.  I read that 1% of the people in this country have 90% or the money and that 5% of the people in this country have 95% of all the money.  So we are all just field hands working for the man up in the big house.  They have used the political system, via lobbyists, to skew the laws and the whole system so they can line their pockets at everyone's expense.  They are the one's that own the companies that are shipping all of our work overseas because they can get someone in China to do it for a bowl of rice a day and a fish head.  Or to Mexico for a couple of taco's.  We are not competitive because our kids don't want to study in school.  Or they go to college and get a degree in underwater basket weaving and then lamet the fact that they can't find a job.  We have 50 million folks with no health care because the lobbyists for the insurance companies and doctors do not want the current system changed----they are making a killing off of us (no pun intended).   We are currently in the middle of the second golden age where a few robber barons have all the money.  The last one was in the 1920's.  And you remember what happened to end that one.  We can live in a stronger America by not electing the scoundrels that have been raping us and by insisting that our schools be strengthened by putting the troublemakers in troublemaker school thus allowing the rest to get a decent education.  At the same time, we will randomly test every schoolkid for drugs eliminating the drug problem there.  That same thing could be extended to the workplace.  It works.  We have the straightest bunch of workers you ever saw at our nuclear plants because the get randomly tested for drugs.

But I don't want to hear about how buying a Toyota is going to be the end of America.  The percentage of American made parts in the Camry is higher than any other car sold in the US.  I will say this:  I really don't think you will find anyone restoring Toyota Camrys in 30 years.  They are like transistor radios.  You buy it, use it, and then recycle it.  It's just a commodity.  They sure don't generate any excitement with me.

OK, I've had my rant.  I feel better now.   

[dpm68]

Toyota 4Xs are hard to beat. I have one of the best, a 1985 4-Runner. Last year for the solid front axle and the first for fuel injection. I have driven that beast through most of what Colorado has to offer and it has no complaints. But it stays outside and the Charger stays in the garage...

[71bee]

I'm a MoPar or no car kinda guy. I have had my '96 Ram 2500 CTD for years with NO problems whatsoever. 21 MPG and all the torque I will ever need for ANYTHING. can't say that with your Toyo's. it has 201,000k on the clock and I just barely had new hub assemblies installed ($850.00).

sorry, I just can't see myself ever switching over to the rice rockets. besides, lets see what Ceberus has in store for Chrysler. they may take the Duetsch out of MOPAR (I can only hope.)

I only paid $200 for the Tercel (Guy needed some weed I guess) and  have put almost 30,000 miles on it with the only costs being gas, oil, plates and insurance.....excluding the gas costs that is still under the $850 for just your hubs. now I know you can't compare my buggy to a truck but......

your time will come. and yes, it will cost you.
also, I can't see your Turdcel pulling my 21 ft. boat, with a camper on the back, out to the lake....not even with yer sweet assed Tundra!
BTW, when your car gets over 201k on the clock, let me know how your repair bill adds up.  (now I'm jus' playin' witcha, don't be hatin'! 

as far as re-sale? the wife bought a '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport for $8,400 4 years ago. it was a great lil' SUV. the day after it was paid off (last January) it got totaled in a 45 MPH t-bone accident. I was sitting passenger and I tell you, that thing held up SUPERBLY! the guy that hit her was driving an Isuzu Trooper. he, and his SUV were a mess! unfortunately, they called both vehicles a total loss. his insurance sent my wife a check for $9,500. which vehicle do you think held it's value the best??  hint: not the saki burner!

This thread has become WAAAAAAYYY too political. everyone has an opinion, and as so frequently stated in this argument, "isn't it just freakin' awesome that we have the right to choose whether or not we wanna purchase a solid, well built American car, or a piece of shit foreign headache?" I love it!     

[Khyron]

*snip* i won't quote all that *snip*

As far as the Charger I consider it a toy, that may or may not ever get put together if I can ever get the bills paid down enough to do so. So it doesn't compare to the argument here. Maybe you don't like what I say but I'm not lying. So how would you feel? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you continue to be such a "strong supporter" of American Industry? Because they certainly won't support you.

Well, *I* haven't had that experience, though compairing 4x4 trucks to a tercel is a bit ridiculous to me personall when talking about mileage. I'm also sure that I could give you the same story with the opposite spin on it about friends that had nightmare problems with their imports. I for one haven't owned one to tell a horor story about.

I'm sure we will have both sides talking here as well. Basiclly my point is this, and you can continue to say what you want but my point will remain valid.

Don't ever expect that when you make a generalized statement people are just going to let it slide. There are always exceptions on both sides. I keep an open mind, my question is will you?

I would say no, all Import owners are stubborn.

so tell me, can you argue that generalized statement? just because you know people that own an import that aren't stubborn doesn't reflect my experiences. So the argument is useless and makes generalized statements appear to be biased and kinda moroninc doesn't it?

need I keep making this point?

[69DodgeCharger]

I almost have to laugh about this thread.  In 1994, I ordered a new Taurus.  It's a good thing we bought the 6 year 75,000 mile warranty with it (Ford Warranty).  At 25k, I started smelling antifreeze.  No leaks.  Dealer says they all smell like that--no problem.  We kept taking it in.  By 55,000, the heads had been pulled three times and 2 weeks after the last time, the head gaskets failed again and let antifreeze into the oil system destroying the engine.  Ford's answer, a "new" engine.  I thought, well, I guess that would be an OK solution.  But--------it's a part.  So warranty---12 mo or 12k miles.  And there are no "new" engines.  They are all rebuilt.   They put it in and the Manager of the Service dept told me I should be satisfied with what they were doing.  I wanted my original 3 yr or 36k mile warranty on the "new" engine.  He said no.  I have to thank the really nice girl who was our service advisor.  She secretly told us about a extended warranty we could buy from Ford for the long block for $350 (they got rid of those 6 months later).  Service Manager had never mentioned it.  Now here's the interesting part.  I asked to talk to the Ford district rep.  They said fine and would call me.  They never called.  But I kept checking and found out when he was going to be there and just showed up.  I wanted them to give me my $350 back.  His response.  NO.  I said I would like to take it to the next level and could I just get his boss's name and phone number.  NOBODY at the dealership including him would tell it to me.  And that wasn't all the problems we had with the car.  Four spedometers failed; the radiator failed; the rear window motor failed; the ac failed; and the Range sensor in the transmission failed---twice.  I had owned a Ford truck that I bought new in 1973 and kept 29 years.  But I can't see myself buying another Ford product.  Not after the way we were treated.  So I went out in 2002 and bought my wife a new Toyota Camry.  We have it today.  It gets 34 mpg on the Interstate and the only thing we have put on it is tires, gas, oil, and filters.  That's why people buy Toyotas.  I think we will always have to have a little grocery getter like that around with the gas being the price it is now.  But I still have my 2005 Dodge Quad Cab Hemi and I absolutely love it.  I am working on my 69 Charger which will have a 440/4sp.  And I do plan on buying a new Challenger when the dust settles and you can get a reasonable deal.  I figure that will be probably a year after they come out next April.  So I still love American cars but didn't have much choice when it came down to a reliable daily driver for my wife.

I think my story pretty well exemplifies the problems (and successes) of the American Automotive industry.  They intentionally chose to build a inferior product and got caught with their pants down.  And people got sick and tired of their cars constantly needing repairs and spending more time in the shop than on the road-----not to mention the money involved.  So they go looking for something that is reliable and gets good gas milage for a daily driver.  And they buy a Toyota or Honda.

There is a lot of things we could do to live in a stronger America but propping up poorly managed car companies is not one of them.  The reason we have shitty jobs, a bad economy, and decreasing quality of life is simply that a small percentage of the people in this country have managed to get ALL of the money.  I read that 1% of the people in this country have 90% or the money and that 5% of the people in this country have 95% of all the money.  So we are all just field hands working for the man up in the big house.  They have used the political system, via lobbyists, to skew the laws and the whole system so they can line their pockets at everyone's expense.  They are the one's that own the companies that are shipping all of our work overseas because they can get someone in China to do it for a bowl of rice a day and a fish head.  Or to Mexico for a couple of taco's.  We are not competitive because our kids don't want to study in school.  Or they go to college and get a degree in underwater basket weaving and then lamet the fact that they can't find a job.  We have 50 million folks with no health care because the lobbyists for the insurance companies and doctors do not want the current system changed----they are making a killing off of us (no pun intended).   We are currently in the middle of the second golden age where a few robber barons have all the money.  The last one was in the 1920's.  And you remember what happened to end that one.  We can live in a stronger America by not electing the scoundrels that have been raping us and by insisting that our schools be strengthened by putting the troublemakers in troublemaker school thus allowing the rest to get a decent education.  At the same time, we will randomly test every schoolkid for drugs eliminating the drug problem there.  That same thing could be extended to the workplace.  It works.  We have the straightest bunch of workers you ever saw at our nuclear plants because the get randomly tested for drugs.

But I don't want to hear about how buying a Toyota is going to be the end of America.  The percentage of American made parts in the Camry is higher than any other car sold in the US.  I will say this:  I really don't think you will find anyone restoring Toyota Camrys in 30 years.  They are like transistor radios.  You buy it, use it, and then recycle it.  It's just a commodity.  They sure don't generate any excitement with me.

OK, I've had my rant.  I feel better now.   

Yep....What he said.

[Todd Wilson]

I've got a Honda that is 21 years old. Its been a good car but when things do break down they cost a lot to fix. The car is falling apart every which way.

As for the resale value or they hold their value speechs  makes me laugh. If you got a good vehicle why do you want to sell it later? Theres a lot of Dodges on this forum that have tremendous resale value right now. More so then any Toyota or Honda will ever have!


Todd

[RangerDan440]

20 years ago, Toyota and Honda built better cars-thats not the case anymore. 

But the the US companies have got to get it together and build a decent, small, economical car that can compete with in the Civic class-thats something we've never been able to do.  We got the trucks and big V8 sedans down, now we need somthing smaller or we're in real trouble.

[Mike DC]

 
I agree with the assertions that Asian cars break down less often but they cost more when it does happen.  Replacement parts for those things are obscene.

And comparing Japanese cars to American cars is too much of a catch-all.  There are crappy Asian cars and there are great American cars.

 

[69DodgeCharger]

*snip* i won't quote all that *snip*

As far as the Charger I consider it a toy, that may or may not ever get put together if I can ever get the bills paid down enough to do so. So it doesn't compare to the argument here. Maybe you don't like what I say but I'm not lying. So how would you feel? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you continue to be such a "strong supporter" of American Industry? Because they certainly won't support you.

Well, *I* haven't had that experience, though compairing 4x4 trucks to a tercel is a bit ridiculous to me personall when talking about mileage. I'm also sure that I could give you the same story with the opposite spin on it about friends that had nightmare problems with their imports. I for one haven't owned one to tell a horor story about.

I'm sure we will have both sides talking here as well. Basiclly my point is this, and you can continue to say what you want but my point will remain valid.

Don't ever expect that when you make a generalized statement people are just going to let it slide. There are always exceptions on both sides. I keep an open mind, my question is will you?

I would say no, all Import owners are stubborn.

so tell me, can you argue that generalized statement? just because you know people that own an import that aren't stubborn doesn't reflect my experiences. So the argument is useless and makes generalized statements appear to be biased and kinda moroninc doesn't it?

need I keep making this point?

"your time will come. and yes, it will cost you.".....For $200 I can just throw it away and not be out anything!

Fair enough..........All vehicles break. I accept that. But when the company refuses to stand behind their product repeatedly and use every lame excuse in the book including outright lies to duck their responsibility for it, well that's when I draw the line. And yeah the Tercel is no comparison to a truck, or even a 2000 and up passenger car probably. But it has treated me better for less than the cost of  2 payments on my first new truck then any of my domestics ever have. So I'm sold. I bought the Ranger thinking maybe it would be different. Nope same old piece of crap as the Dodges. No power, terrible brakes, leaks fluids, eats tires, I'm not gonna bother trying a Gm..I've had enough. So it is what it is. 3 strikes and you're out....well four if you count the Ford.

[Purple440]

I almost have to laugh about this thread.  In 1994, I ordered a new Taurus.  It's a good thing we bought the 6 year 75,000 mile warranty with it (Ford Warranty).  At 25k, I started smelling antifreeze.  No leaks.  Dealer says they all smell like that--no problem.  We kept taking it in.  By 55,000, the heads had been pulled three times and 2 weeks after the last time, the head gaskets failed again and let antifreeze into the oil system destroying the engine.  Ford's answer, a "new" engine.  I thought, well, I guess that would be an OK solution.  But--------it's a part.  So warranty---12 mo or 12k miles.  And there are no "new" engines.  They are all rebuilt.   They put it in and the Manager of the Service dept told me I should be satisfied with what they were doing.  I wanted my original 3 yr or 36k mile warranty on the "new" engine.  He said no.  I have to thank the really nice girl who was our service advisor.  She secretly told us about a extended warranty we could buy from Ford for the long block for $350 (they got rid of those 6 months later).  Service Manager had never mentioned it.  Now here's the interesting part.  I asked to talk to the Ford district rep.  They said fine and would call me.  They never called.  But I kept checking and found out when he was going to be there and just showed up.  I wanted them to give me my $350 back.  His response.  NO.  I said I would like to take it to the next level and could I just get his boss's name and phone number.  NOBODY at the dealership including him would tell it to me.  And that wasn't all the problems we had with the car.  Four spedometers failed; the radiator failed; the rear window motor failed; the ac failed; and the Range sensor in the transmission failed---twice.  I had owned a Ford truck that I bought new in 1973 and kept 29 years.  But I can't see myself buying another Ford product.  Not after the way we were treated.  So I went out in 2002 and bought my wife a new Toyota Camry.  We have it today.  It gets 34 mpg on the Interstate and the only thing we have put on it is tires, gas, oil, and filters.  That's why people buy Toyotas.  I think we will always have to have a little grocery getter like that around with the gas being the price it is now.  But I still have my 2005 Dodge Quad Cab Hemi and I absolutely love it.  I am working on my 69 Charger which will have a 440/4sp.  And I do plan on buying a new Challenger when the dust settles and you can get a reasonable deal.  I figure that will be probably a year after they come out next April.  So I still love American cars but didn't have much choice when it came down to a reliable daily driver for my wife.

I think my story pretty well exemplifies the problems (and successes) of the American Automotive industry.  They intentionally chose to build a inferior product and got caught with their pants down.  And people got sick and tired of their cars constantly needing repairs and spending more time in the shop than on the road-----not to mention the money involved.  So they go looking for something that is reliable and gets good gas milage for a daily driver.  And they buy a Toyota or Honda.

There is a lot of things we could do to live in a stronger America but propping up poorly managed car companies is not one of them.  The reason we have shitty jobs, a bad economy, and decreasing quality of life is simply that a small percentage of the people in this country have managed to get ALL of the money.  I read that 1% of the people in this country have 90% or the money and that 5% of the people in this country have 95% of all the money.  So we are all just field hands working for the man up in the big house.  They have used the political system, via lobbyists, to skew the laws and the whole system so they can line their pockets at everyone's expense.  They are the one's that own the companies that are shipping all of our work overseas because they can get someone in China to do it for a bowl of rice a day and a fish head.  Or to Mexico for a couple of taco's.  We are not competitive because our kids don't want to study in school.  Or they go to college and get a degree in underwater basket weaving and then lamet the fact that they can't find a job.  We have 50 million folks with no health care because the lobbyists for the insurance companies and doctors do not want the current system changed----they are making a killing off of us (no pun intended).   We are currently in the middle of the second golden age where a few robber barons have all the money.  The last one was in the 1920's.  And you remember what happened to end that one.  We can live in a stronger America by not electing the scoundrels that have been raping us and by insisting that our schools be strengthened by putting the troublemakers in troublemaker school thus allowing the rest to get a decent education.  At the same time, we will randomly test every schoolkid for drugs eliminating the drug problem there.  That same thing could be extended to the workplace.  It works.  We have the straightest bunch of workers you ever saw at our nuclear plants because the get randomly tested for drugs.

But I don't want to hear about how buying a Toyota is going to be the end of America.  The percentage of American made parts in the Camry is higher than any other car sold in the US.  I will say this:  I really don't think you will find anyone restoring Toyota Camrys in 30 years.  They are like transistor radios.  You buy it, use it, and then recycle it.  It's just a commodity.  They sure don't generate any excitement with me.

OK, I've had my rant.  I feel better now.   

Very well said and I couldn't agree more.

[Todd Wilson]

[

Nope same old piece of crap as the Dodges. No power, terrible brakes, leaks fluids, eats tires, I'm not gonna bother trying a Gm..I've had enough. So it is what it is. 3 strikes and you're out....well four if you count the Ford.

I 've had 3 different small Dodge cars and 2 of them would run circles around my Honda. The 3rd is a bigger car and does fairly well power wise.


Todd