Last thread. Opinions and poll. What camshaft? ... now about torque converter

[Nacho-RT74]

Yes I'm again with the same but this will be the last.

Specs:
4452783     268/284dur 46o/lap 450/458lift idle-5800 rpm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=DCC-4452783&N=700%200&Ntt=DCC~4452993%20or%20DCC~5007697%20or%20DCC~4452783%20or%20DCC~4286677%20or%20DCC~4286675%20or%20DCC~4120235&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

4286675    260/260dur 34o/lap 430/430lift 1000-5300rpm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=DCC-4286675&N=700%200&Ntt=DCC~4452993%20or%20DCC~5007697%20or%20DCC~4452783%20or%20DCC~4286677%20or%20DCC~4286675%20or%20DCC~4120235&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

4248677    272/272dur 48o/lap 455/455lift 1300/5700rpm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=DCC-4286677&N=700%200&Ntt=DCC~4452993%20or%20DCC~5007697%20or%20DCC~4452783%20or%20DCC~4286677%20or%20DCC~4286675%20or%20DCC~4120235&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

4452993    280/280dur 60o/lap 474/474lift 2000/5900rpm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=DCC-4452993&N=700%200&Ntt=DCC~4452993%20or%20DCC~5007697%20or%20DCC~4452783%20or%20DCC~4286677%20or%20DCC~4286675%20or%20DCC~4120235&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

5007697    284/284dur 56o/lap 484/484lift 2200/5900rpm
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?CP=1&part=DCC-5007697&N=700%200&Ntt=DCC~4452993%20or%20DCC~5007697%20or%20DCC~4452783%20or%20DCC~4286677%20or%20DCC~4286675%20or%20DCC~4120235&Ntk=&rsview=sku&Ns=

drivetrain specs:
850cfm TQ carb
Stock spreadbore intake
KB240 Pistons
metallic gasket
452 heads ( slightly milled down )
Stock HP exhaust
Stock mufflers but I can change for some performance ones soon
Stock torque converter
727
3:23, but probably will change of mind to 3:55... suregrip ( soon )
255/60-15

thinking on 451 to next year keeping same camshaft I choose now.

Use: street with some ricers being kicked on traffic lights.

HPs I wish ? 340-380... more if posible, but more less that. Just want to make a 400 like an earlier BB or a little bit more.

what do you think I'll get with every camshaft on list ?

[Nacho-RT74]

Oh great then by now 1 vote each cam LOL... not too much votes and everybody has a very different opinion ( I just added one to the 993 to make some "difference" )

[Ghoste]

I think in truth Nacho, most of us don't have a strong feeling in favor of any of the MP grinds today.  There are better cams available.

[Nacho-RT74]

ok, but the vote is limited to those, LOL... Also there is better ppl to vote for a President  but those do not enter on polls hahaha.

There is a reason to choose MP that I'll not touch right now

[firefighter3931]

I think in truth Nacho, most of us don't have a strong feeling in favor of any of the MP grinds today.  There are better cams available.

I agree ! 

The correct answer to your question is ; none of the above 



Ron

[Nacho-RT74]

HAHAHA!!! aren't you able to choose the best of the less bads posted ? LOL

[Ghoste]

Well, throwing all science and common logic out the window, I will tell you that I voted for the 993.  My only reason for doing so was that I have 697 in my car and it isn't really the right choice for my 383.  I picked a lesser cam for the setup you have now with an eye to giving you some grunt for a proposed 451.
Note, my opinion is based ONLY on the statements given and on no other experience or facts whatsoever.  Wish I could be of more help my friend.

[firefighter3931]

HAHAHA!!! aren't you able to choose the best of the less bads posted ? LOL

Sure i can pick one but i'm not happy about it 

The 440 HP cam # 783 would be my choice from that sorry bunch.   


This one would be a much better choice, inmo :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60302&autoview=sku




Ron

[Nacho-RT74]

HAHAHA!!! aren't you able to choose the best of the less bads posted ? LOL

Sure i can pick one but i'm not happy about it 

The 440 HP cam # 783 would be my choice from that sorry bunch.   


This one would be a much better choice, inmo :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60302&autoview=sku




Ron

yes I did now your choice LOL... but I already have the single bolt Timing chain set in my hands down here and that's three bolts.

783 ? hhhmmmm

Could you confirm this PN sequence about same camshaft ?
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,31575.0.html

If that number sequence is true then I already have that camshaft down here, and PROBABLY is the one already in my car, so the 993 what is the one that makes my eyes shine could be like an experiment.

[moparguy01]

HAHAHA!!! aren't you able to choose the best of the less bads posted ? LOL

Sure i can pick one but i'm not happy about it 

The 440 HP cam # 783 would be my choice from that sorry bunch.   


This one would be a much better choice, inmo :

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN%2D60302&autoview=sku




Ron

I agree with Ron

[firefighter3931]

yes I did now your choice LOL... but I already have the single bolt Timing chain set in my hands down here and that's three bolts.

783 ? hhhmmmm

Could you confirm this PN sequence about same camshaft ?
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,31575.0.html

If that number sequence is true then I already have that camshaft down here, and PROBABLY is the one already in my car, so the 993 what is the one that makes my eyes shine could be like an experiment.

Assuming that the sequence numbers are correct then just keep using that cam. Going to a cam with more duration would be a step in the wrong direction....what you need is a cam with shorter timing to help the engine develop low rpm cylinder pressure....especially with a short stroke low compression engine in a heavy car with a stock converter and mild gearing. The cam will make or break the engine combo...very critical with the current limitations. 


Ron

[Nacho-RT74]

so, does look 993 cam was the winner

[firefighter3931]

so, does look 993 cam was the winner

Winner of what ? The poll ? Or did you buy it ?



Ron


Ps. I fixed the poll so you don't have to buy that cam if you don't want too. 

[Nacho-RT74]

hahahahahahaha

Weren't you one of the Florida Votes counter ?

yeah, I bought 993. Supposing the secuences number correct, then I already have that 783 here that also will buy at $115 ( more less ). If I don't start to experiment then never will learn.

just would need to proove the lighningjar numbers link. Rest are prooved by dealers or techs

BTW the original votes stated 993 as favourite ( almost 40% )

[firefighter3931]

hahahahahahaha

Weren't you one of the Florida Votes counter ?

Yep, that was me.....LOL ! 

If I don't start to experiment then never will learn.

Experimenting is good....i've done a lot of that myself over the years. I can pretty much tell you how it will perform before it's installed. If you're really set on using the 993 cam then start sourcing some other parts you'll need to make it run right :

(1) Performer RPM dual plane or CH4b dual plane
(2) 750 cfm double pumper
(3) 3500 stall converter
(4) 3.91+ gears


A 238@.050 cam is healthy in a 440......in a low compression 400 it's gonna have a high powerband and feel pretty soft below 3000 rpm. 

You won't be able to spin the tires unless you're in a pool of water or sitting on an oil slick. 


On the other hand ; that 933 would be OK in a 451 with good compression and the right parts. 



Ron

[kamkuda]

Experimenting is good....i've done a lot of that myself over the years. I can pretty much tell you how it will perform before it's installed. If you're really set on using the 993 cam then start sourcing some other parts you'll need to make it run right :

(1) Performer RPM dual plane or CH4b dual plane
(2) 750 cfm double pumper
(3) 3500 stall converter
(4) 3.91+ gears


A 238@.050 cam is healthy in a 440......in a low compression 400 it's gonna have a high powerband and feel pretty soft below 3000 rpm. 

You won't be able to spin the tires unless you're in a pool of water or sitting on an oil slick. 


On the other hand ; that 933 would be OK in a 451 with good compression and the right parts. 



Ron

I have been there with a similar combo,  440, maybe more compression than you have
Comp 292 cam with 240 at 050.  It had a Stock converter and 3.55 gears in a Cuda
 
It was an absolute DOG out of the hole.  Seriously embarrassing off the line, Mind you it sounded great at idle

I have that same 440 engine combo ready for my Road Runner, same cam, same heads, torker intake, etc.  BUT with 4.10 gears and a 3500 stall converter.

It took some time learning and some good friends guidance  .. but it is all in the combo.  You either need the smaller cam or a different combo of parts.
Trying them both will be fun too.  It will give you some experience on the difference it makes.  It is remarkable. 
Good Luck

Rob

[Nacho-RT74]

A 238@.050 cam is healthy in a 440......in a low compression 400 it's gonna have a high powerband and feel pretty soft below 3000 rpm. 

Well, remember I'm also increasing compression with KB240s, using metalic head gasket and milling down the heads. Maybe around 020. so probably I'll get around 9.3/9.5:1 compression what is more than 1 point on compression than stock. So around same compression that earliers BB including 440. Probably will also enlarge heads bows.

On the other hand ; that 933 would be OK in a 451 with good compression and the right parts. 

Ok, that's good. I'll have to work on torque converter though. Was talking with moparguy01 and told me the MP non favourite stuff coming from you guys is more about quality than specs itself.

[Ghoste]

It's quality in some cases but I disagree on camshafts.  They haven't updated their cam specs in years and while MP has rested on the laurels of the old Direct Connection days and Larry Shepherd, some of the other cam makers have passed them by. 

[Nacho-RT74]

Experimenting is good....i've done a lot of that myself over the years. I can pretty much tell you how it will perform before it's installed. If you're really set on using the 993 cam then start sourcing some other parts you'll need to make it run right :

(1) Performer RPM dual plane or CH4b dual plane
(2) 750 cfm double pumper
(3) 3500 stall converter
(4) 3.91+ gears


A 238@.050 cam is healthy in a 440......in a low compression 400 it's gonna have a high powerband and feel pretty soft below 3000 rpm. 

You won't be able to spin the tires unless you're in a pool of water or sitting on an oil slick. 


On the other hand ; that 933 would be OK in a 451 with good compression and the right parts. 



Ron

What about 3:55 and 2400-2800 torque converter ? from 3:23 and stock converter that I don't know whats the specs for that. I would modify the stock torque converter down here.

Could It be my stock converters locked up kind ? advantage ?

I'm still learning about whats the "stall" torque converter spec. I have understand about kinda is the internals parts are coupling to give the complete transfer between engine and tranny. Kinda the clutch on manual transmision point where engine is able to move the car without "stall" ?

[kamkuda]

Here is some good torque converter explainations http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm

The phsyical size of the converter, the stator and the angle or the fins are adjusted to acheive the stall the converter give

note this is coupled with the torque a given engine would produce.

[Nacho-RT74]

I already went to howstuffworks works LOL... just wanted another way to explain it LOL.