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general starter troubleshooting question

Started by 89MOPAR, July 22, 2007, 08:21:09 PM

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89MOPAR

 
Got a question about troubleshooting a starter. In the past if the wiring was questionable I have been able to directly wire 12V power to the main starter lug and a "remote starter" trigger to 12V  to jump the starter directly.  This was with a basic 2 lug starter, non GM.  Ford or Chrysler type.
 
  I have a starter for my Noble M400 that is a Ford european starter. It fits a european only tranny [ It's a transaxle ]. Starter is pricy and cannot be sourced locally.
It has a main large gage wire lug for main 12 V power. [ 13 mm nut ]
It has a small gage wire lug for 12V switched power [ 10 mm nut]

  Getting the starter out will be a big PITA , tight confines.  The car turned over the other day. Then I swapped a fuel relay that wasn't working right, and the starter quit about the same time.  Now the fuel relay and pump works fine but starter doesn't turn.
  When I turn the key to start I can hear and feel the engine compartment starter solenoid [ near firewall - 4 post Ford style] engage / clickover.
  I don't see any voltage on any of the 4 posts on the solenoid except the post where the battery hooks up [ no voltage on "I" or "S" small terminals, or main output ]

So I  disconnected the car battery completely.....
Then hooked up a second new battery by itself , near the starter.....
Negative wire attached from battery negative to the frame. 
  [Starter should be grounded to frame since it is bolted to tranny, tranny has a separate ground to frame to ground whole engine.]

Battery positive lug 12V attached to starter big lug.
Remote starter trigger attached to battery postive and starter small lug.

When I depress the remote trigger I can hear the switch inside the starter clickover.  So I have 12V at both starter lugs, independent of any car wiring .  But the starter is not turning over. ?????    :brickwall: :brickwall:

Am I missing something obvious ?   Shouldn't this turn the starter over ?
  And If I pull it out and bring it to the auto parts store will their test be any different ?
   The Firewall 4 lug starter solenoid I can get cheaply , but I think this hookup I described takes that piece out of the equation...
Thanks !!

 
 
77 Ram-Charger SE factory 440 'Macho' package
03 Ram Hemi 4x4 Pickup
Noble M400
72 Satellite Sebring Plus +

89MOPAR

 
Pulled the starter. Had 2 auto parts stores test it. they got nothing. Probable bad Bendix spring and main contacts. Both gears were on the same plane when I pullled it. One of the gears should be retracted when not actively turning over. Need new starter.
77 Ram-Charger SE factory 440 'Macho' package
03 Ram Hemi 4x4 Pickup
Noble M400
72 Satellite Sebring Plus +