Hardcore Racing - Were they at Carlylse??

Dodge Don · July 09, 2007, 02:56:08 PM

Was Hardcore Racing at Carlysle showing their full quarters?

Anyone have any legit info on them?

Spike · July 09, 2007, 02:57:41 PM

Never seen them if they were there Don.

Just 6T9 CHGR · July 09, 2007, 03:13:23 PM

They weren't there but Auto Metal Direct was....their stuff looked & felt real nice.....I hope their prices are the same way!

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,30067.0.html

Old Moparz · July 09, 2007, 03:20:32 PM

I didn't see them either, but AMD (Auto Metal Direct) was there with a lot of their prototype sheet metal on display. They had the '68 to '69 hood, full floors, L & R fenders, (Inner bracing was in yet) tail panel, & more. No pricing yet, but seeing the items on display is very promising. They didn't look too shabby, but without the inner bracing on the fenders, they felt flimsy & hard to tell just yet. The guy I spoke to said "SOON" for the availabilty.

They even had a '69 Road Runner hood with the cut outs for the air grabber inlets. I've been wanting one for my satellite & keep seeing expensive, rusty ones, but this may mean a brands new hood for my car.

ECHO............ECHO.............echo.........echo

bsakal · July 09, 2007, 03:29:26 PM

the auto metal direct guy told me the fender pricing was going to be $500-650.

Brock Samson · July 09, 2007, 03:29:36 PM

drink some of todd's PBR while you wait...

Daytona R/T SE · July 09, 2007, 03:44:13 PM

Quote from: bsakal on July 09, 2007, 03:29:26 PM
the auto metal direct guy told me the fender pricing was going to be $500-650.

He'll be seeing lots of my money

Mike DC · July 09, 2007, 04:11:56 PM

Hardcore Racing was publicly displaying some fresh panel stampings at "Dukesfest" last month.

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The new stuff from Auto Metal Direct can't be far away from the catalogs. If they're already displaying stampings of the "money shot" pieces like the skins of the fenders, then they're probably just about ready to start the presses.

Troy · July 09, 2007, 05:04:38 PM

Didn't see hardcore but I saw a bunch of stuff from AMD. The 69 tail panels are obviously out now and some of the trunk pieces (gutters, filler panel, etc.) are very close. Keep your eyes peeled on the "News" box.

Troy

dkn1997 · July 09, 2007, 06:27:04 PM

Quote from: Troy on July 09, 2007, 05:04:38 PM
Didn't see hardcore but I saw a bunch of stuff from AMD. The 69 tail panels are obviously out now and some of the trunk pieces (gutters, filler panel, etc.) are very close. Keep your eyes peeled on the "News" box.

Troy

between that and the comment about a group buy in another thread, me thinks troy knows something.....

Dan T · July 09, 2007, 07:29:34 PM

What I've been wondering is, what will the difference be between the AMD trunk/floor pans with comparison to the stuff that year one and sherman has been selling for years??

Dodge Don · July 10, 2007, 05:46:09 AM

The reason I asked is because after going on 3 months they still have not shipped their full quarters. They said they had issues with test fits and had to re-tool to correct. My shop is waiting for these to move forward.

It's been weeks with no updates, they aren't responding to e-mails, their main phone number changed and when I call the direct numbers I have the voice mail boxes are full.

May be nothing.......but it smells off. I've cancelled my order and if I don't get a refund this week I'll have by credit card issuer charge them back for non receipt of merchandise.

I'll talk to Jeremy at AMD.

Aero426 · July 10, 2007, 11:32:58 AM

Quote from: Dodge Don on July 10, 2007, 05:46:09 AM
The reason I asked is because after going on 3 months they still have not shipped their full quarters. They said they had issues with test fits and had to re-tool to correct. My shop is waiting for these to move forward.

It's been weeks with no updates, they aren't responding to e-mails, their main phone number changed and when I call the direct numbers I have the voice mail boxes are full.

May be nothing.......but it smells off. I've cancelled my order and if I don't get a refund this week I'll have by credit card issuer charge them back for non receipt of merchandise.

I'll talk to Jeremy at AMD.

Chris Perry of Hardcore has been silent on the Moparts board since the end of May. That was after 8 pages of discussion on those quarters. It does not smell right.

Ghoste · July 10, 2007, 11:56:23 AM

Some folks didn't think it smelled right from the very beginning.

I don't want to see aftermarket sheet metal guys abandon us though, things are just starting to look better.

Charger_Fan · July 10, 2007, 12:11:09 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on July 10, 2007, 11:56:23 AM
Some folks didn't think it smelled right from the very beginning.
I don't want to see aftermarket sheet metal guys abandon us though, things are just starting to look better.

I agree on both counts.

Assuming things keep going well with AMD, I'm predicting that by this time next year Year One & others will be dropping their current replacement stuff in favor of AMD's stuff. Actually, I hope AMD holds out for a couple years without letting some of the larger distributors into the game...make 'em want it BAD!

This new replacement sheetmetal is something that's been overly needed for way too long & if the larger distributors had been willing to push the issue earlier, maybe there would have been decent quality stuff being made 10 years ago, or more. They just got too comfortable selling the substandard crap they've been selling.

Ghoste · July 10, 2007, 12:13:49 PM

I don't even want to begin on how disappointed I am at the way YO has slid into Wal-Martness since the founder retired.

Charger1973 · July 10, 2007, 12:21:49 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on July 10, 2007, 11:56:23 AM
Some folks didn't think it smelled right from the very beginning.

and it still doesnt.

dkn1997 · July 10, 2007, 01:10:46 PM

That AMD stuff looks great. The fact that hardcore was not at Carlisle has to at the very least raise an eyebrow.

who knows, maybe there were some unforseen setbacks in the process and in the end, we will all be thanking them for thier parts...

Old Moparz · July 10, 2007, 01:36:35 PM

Quote from: dkn1997 on July 10, 2007, 01:10:46 PM
That AMD stuff looks great. The fact that hardcore was not at Carlisle has to at the very least raise an eyebrow.

who knows, maybe there were some unforseen setbacks in the process and in the end, we will all be thanking them for thier parts...

An unforeseen setback, like knowing a competitor can provide the same thing for probably 25% of the price.

Mike DC · July 10, 2007, 03:38:09 PM

QuoteAn unforeseen setback, like knowing a competitor can provide the same thing for probably 25% of the price.

Very true about the 25% price issue.

But I still wanna give Hardcore a little credit for panels that truly felt like ORIGINAL GRADE steel.

The improvement might not be worth $1500 to most of us, but it's there.
I wouldn't equate HC's stuff to the metal from Goodmark or anybody else that I've ever seen.

hemi-hampton · July 10, 2007, 08:11:11 PM

I've seen Hardcores 1/4 panels & I still think they can & will make a Quality part. They only made 2 mistakes #1 A too premature advanced notice they were coming
#2 Price to high.
Hopefully with competition they will lower their price.

LEON.

Ghoste · July 10, 2007, 10:37:05 PM

Well, there was that one other little thing where they destroyed a 69 Charger RT for laughs. It may not have anything to do with manufacturing a 1/4 panel but it certainly prejudiced some of us as to what kind of people they are.

Charger1973 · July 10, 2007, 10:39:41 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on July 10, 2007, 10:37:05 PM
Well, there was that one other little thing where they destroyed a 69 Charger RT for laughs. It may not have anything to do with manufacturing a 1/4 panel but it certainly prejudiced some of us as to what kind of people they are.

Mike DC · July 11, 2007, 05:40:56 AM

I don't love Hardcore Racing, I just love the idea of original-grade steel.

Goodmark & the others are still trying to sweep that issue under the rug. We need to keep demanding better or they'll never change.

Ghoste · July 11, 2007, 09:13:14 AM

Yes, you are absolutely 100% correct Mike. Goodmark should not be allowed to sell those as a licensed reproduction if they aren't an exact duplicate so Chrysler shares a little blame too. Are the panels they do for GM cars like that? (i'm guessing yes)

hemi-hampton · July 11, 2007, 10:29:53 PM

Ghoste, Yeah, OK, 3 Mistakes,

My Mistake. LEON.

suntech · July 12, 2007, 07:15:14 PM

Hi
I was visiting Hardcore Racing, when i was in the States 3 weeks ago, to pisk up my 68 Charger. They had the full rear quarters there in the shop, and they looked great.
Doors and front fenders are also in the prossess, and should be just around the corner, according to Chris Perry. I got a very dood impression of the guys there. AMD parts looked also great on the pictures. Does antbody know when the parts are available to order?

Old Moparz · July 12, 2007, 10:05:39 PM

Quote from: suntech on July 12, 2007, 07:15:14 PM
Hi
I was visiting Hardcore Racing, when i was in the States 3 weeks ago, to pisk up my 68 Charger. They had the full rear quarters there in the shop, and they looked great.
Doors and front fenders are also in the prossess, and should be just around the corner, according to Chris Perry. I got a very dood impression of the guys there. AMD parts looked also great on the pictures. Does antbody know when the parts are available to order?

One of the guys at the AMD vending space said that the end of this year looks like when all their parts for the Charger will be available. (Also other cars.) I have a feeling it might be a little sooner since they had a lot of the prototype parts on display, but I am not sure of it, I'm just guessing.

It would be really great if one of the magazines would do a side by side comparison of sheet metal that will be available. The average person could never afford to buy both & try them out on a car, but the magazine could budget a project like that. They just wouldn't have the balls for fear of losing an advertiser.

If I needed quarter panels, I'd be buying from AMD if they can keep the price in line with Goodmark's prices of $599 each, & not Hardcore's $2400 each. Sorry, but there's no way a slightly thicker panel is worth 4 times the cost to me. I'd love to get pair of fenders as spares if I have the extra money some time.

Aero426 · July 12, 2007, 10:33:30 PM

I'm guessing that if Hardcore is at $2499, AMD will not be $599 retail. That is too much $$ for them to leave on the table.

Troy · July 12, 2007, 11:10:52 PM

Quote from: DougSchellinger on July 12, 2007, 10:33:30 PM
I'm guessing that if Hardcore is at $2499, AMD will not be $599 retail. That is too much $$ for them to leave on the table.

I doubt if they will be that low but you may be somewhat surprised.

Troy

suntech · July 13, 2007, 04:29:41 AM

Some here says that the AMD quarters are slightly thinner than the Hardcore ones. Exactly how much thinner are they?? ( in mm og thou)
I mean, if there are a difference in aa couple of thousans of an inch, who cares, but if the thin ones are just 70-80% of factory thikness, then we are talking about a noteble difference!!
Then another thought comes up: Why the hell cant they go through the extra hassle and make the parts in the right material, when they make the parts in the first place!! Looking on peoples opinion about this, i think nobody would have any problems paying 20-30% more for a part made in the correct grade steel!!!

suntech · July 13, 2007, 08:00:08 AM

Talked to the Guys at AMD just now, and they make them as close to original as possible,meaning equal thickness and gauge material, so that should not be an issue!!

Orange_Crush · July 13, 2007, 08:20:34 AM

The AMD parts are the correct gauge. I never saw Hardcores, but if they're thicker than AMD's...then they're thicker than stock.

Lostsheep · July 13, 2007, 05:59:30 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on July 10, 2007, 10:37:05 PM
Well, there was that one other little thing where they destroyed a 69 Charger RT for laughs. It may not have anything to do with manufacturing a 1/4 panel but it certainly prejudiced some of us as to what kind of people they are.

Couldn't agree with you more, and it was like a 1 of 5 existing Warner Bros. GLE car.

So its rarity just multiplies.

Dodge Don · July 30, 2007, 06:54:25 PM

I ordered a pair of full quarters from Hardcore months ago. One excuse after another. Then they no longer returned calls and their voice mail boxes were full. Then I sent e-mails which I know they received and opened (return receipt) requesting a refund. No response, no returned calls, no refund processed. I contacted my card issuer who has already credited me back and sent the charge back to Hardcore for failing to provide merchandise.

Something smells rotten there. Anyways I got my $$ back.

JimShine · July 30, 2007, 08:12:10 PM

Hardcore must be in an awkward position. AMD is hot on their heels and is aiming at a far more reasonable street price. It is going to impact their gameplan.

Ghoste · July 31, 2007, 03:58:38 AM

I'll try to pay attention and see if they show at Columbus since they were there last year but it really looks like it doesn't much matter at this point.

Mike DC · July 31, 2007, 07:28:45 AM

It's nice that AMD is chasing original guage materials, but the thickness of the sheetmetal isn't the whole story. The steel in the Taiwanese panels is so full of impurities that it's noticeably weaker to the touch compared to the original stuff. Bends easier. This issue is doing as much to weaken all the repro sheetmetal as the thickness differences.

The Hardcore panels were made in USA and they felt like it. Stiff to the touch, like the original '60s Mopar metal.

The Dynacorn operation has demonstrated that Taiwanese suppliers CAN get the steel right, but most of the companies won't push for it.
I guess we'll just have to wait & see what AMD actually produces.

nitrousn · July 31, 2007, 02:22:15 PM

Chris Perry from Hardcore is nothing more than a con artist crook. They wanted your money up front to finance their project. Do they tell you that up front?? They should be sent to prison. All you get from that JA is a bunch of lip service.

Jeremy and his AMD company will make an excellent product and at a fair price. When we last talked he was shooting for the 600.00 to 800.00 range on the full quarters. There is also some stamping issues with the hardcre parts. Jeremy wont come out and sling crap like the hardcore crooks do. He will however stamp a panel and market it in an affordable way and will crush Hardcre like a bug.

0X01B8 · July 31, 2007, 04:20:18 PM

this may answer some questions: http://www.amsnow.com/SNO/CS/forums/151099/ShowPost.aspx

hope they don't owe anybody here money...

JimShine · July 31, 2007, 04:31:27 PM

That link doesn't look good.

Here are some things I pondered. No accusations, just wondered.

The "test" stampings that hit eBay a few months ago with the extra metal looked like standard current quarters fresh out of the stamp with no metal trimmed.

How does one know the samples they have shown are not actually NOS quarters cleaned down and repainted?

Has anyone seen any tooling?

Mike DC · July 31, 2007, 05:10:56 PM

Two months ago, Hardcore were at Dukesfest with (what looked like) fresh quarter panel stampings. Door panels, too.

Whatever they were, they looked fresh out of a mold and they definitely weren't the Goodmark ones. The metal felt stiffer, the body lines were more crisp, they extended all the way up to the factory seam, etc.

I have no clue about whether Hardcore Racing is in financial trouble, is dishonest, or what. All I can say is that the quarter stampings I saw & touched seemed pretty legit, and the Hardcore guys were talking with me and seemed very aware of the process of stamping them. (The number of different strikes it took to stamp the full quarters, specific trouble spots on the current Goodmark skins, etc.)

Last year they wrecked the '69 RT at the grand opening of the huge shop in Flint (a converted car dealership). They were throwing a lot of money around at that event. Free admission to the whole thing, they jumped a Charger after just paying $35,000 for it, they gave out free hot dogs & soda, etc. I wouldn't put it past them to be ripoff artists or anything, but I think major mismanagement of the money sounds just as likely. I don't see the logic of trying to screw customers out of an extra $1000 on each quarter panel while also dumping $50-100K into an open-house event that they let everyone into for free.

(sorry for swiping the pics, Don)

JimShine · July 31, 2007, 05:26:11 PM

Ahhh, nice pic! I hadn't seen that version of the stamp before. If I remember correctly, the ones on eBay a while back did not have the sail panel.

Mike DC · July 31, 2007, 05:49:37 PM

It was definitely a new tooling. Nobody could have started with the Goodmark tooling and produced what they had on display.

hemi-hampton · July 31, 2007, 09:08:11 PM

I guess nobody looked at the 1/4's as good as I did, They were not complete with the Trunk Gutters missing

LEON.

Mike DC · July 31, 2007, 10:48:29 PM

The trunk gutter was always a different piece than the quarter skin even from the factory.

The quarter has a little flange that lays over the edge of the gutter and that's where the spot welds are. There's usually a little bead of seam sealer over the area.

hemi-hampton · July 31, 2007, 10:53:42 PM

I'm not talking about the actual trunk gutter but the lip or edge or whatever you want to call it that curves around into part of the trunk gutter to be more specific. Their prototype repop had no edge or lip at all just straight & flat. When I asked hardcore about this they admitted, Yeah, It's not done yet, We are still working on that part.

LEON.

Mike DC · July 31, 2007, 11:08:18 PM

Oh, I gotcha. You're right, I don't remember looking for that at the time.

I was so distracted by the fact that the wheel lips actually looked decent, I don't remember what all the other seams looked like.

Dodge Don · August 01, 2007, 06:55:38 AM

They were "selling" these things before they ever had a finished product. The first ones were apparently given to a major Mopar magazine for an article....surprise...they didn't fit. Among the fit issues was the rear raised spoiler lip was too exaggerated. They also had issues getting shipping crates made. Once they were to scrap the initial run, re-tool to fix the fit issues, they simply clammed up and nothing heard from them since.

There were so many dodgey signs on this. The way they hyped it up on Moparts and gave no direct answers, the joke of an EBAY item which was crafted to misrepresent what they were...you got the impression these were from 1969 factory pressings. It's very odd that given the number of Charger owners here, on Moparts and on the 70 Registry that I'm the only one that seemed to have placed an order. Because I used my credit card I knew I was protected anyways....if I had paid by cheque or cash I'd be out the $$ for sure.

Maybe they will pull it off eventually. Don't know, don't care anymore. I'll wait for AMD.

Ghoste · August 01, 2007, 04:33:26 PM

Of course it is summer, maybe we're being too hard on them. Maybe they had to dust off the old big block Chevy to go racing.

hemi-hampton · August 01, 2007, 06:51:23 PM

Don, I find it odd that anybody actually made a purchase. No Insult intended.

LEON.

0X01B8 · August 01, 2007, 07:37:33 PM

maybe I should have summarized the link I put above...it says their Flint operation is boarded up and closed. Another page lists info about an auction of the stuff at the Flint place a couple months ago. also, try a google search with ronnie duke + "fraud" or "mortgage" and you'll see some interesting stuff. as for the panels, I'd imagine somewhere there's a company (owed a lot of money) with all the tooling and whatnot so I'd bet they come out anyway.

472 R/T SE · August 01, 2007, 07:48:49 PM

Quote from: hemi-hampton on August 01, 2007, 06:51:23 PM
Don, I find it odd that anybody actually made a purchase. No Insult intended. LEON.

I don't. His car is in the shop now and could use the quarters. If they are anything close to what they said quality wise it should be a major improvement over the junk for sale nowadays and what it takes to make them look good. You're a body and paint guy, isn't there money to be saved not spending it on labor?
If I were in his shoes I would have done the same thing.

hemi-hampton · August 01, 2007, 10:39:55 PM

I was only teasing Don. My self I would have waited to find rustfree donors or donor car before I even brought to the body shop. I know I know, everybody say's good luck, get real, whatcha been smokin, But not long ago I seen a 100% totally rustfree california burnt orange 70 charger on ebay for only a lousy $5,000. The 318 motor was gone & interior gone but solid rustfree & I think original paint. I wanted it for it's original burnt orange rims. If I had 5 grand I would have bought for the rims. Then could have recouped my 5 grand back just by selling the 2 1/4 panels. Really, if you want the best job or quality only 2 ways to do it, NOS 1/4 or or good used rustfree. All other options of aftermarket are only good for a low quality daily driver that may get 1st place at local Burger King at best. A Possible 3rd option would be if someone actually made a full complete NOS style high quality aftermarket panel. Hopefully with that new company AMD in Georgia Don & us all will get our wish. I've put on way to much Aftermarket sheetmetal to know most of it sucks with poor fit. I would rather make my own patch to patch a original rusty 1/4 then replace whole bottom half with a aftermarket. LEON.

Mike DC · August 02, 2007, 01:04:14 AM

So Hardcore's entire huge dealership-turned-store in Flint is boarded up now?

Man, that was fast.

I had heard that Ronnie Duke was making his real coin in real estate, and the whole HR operation was just a big fun money-loser.
It makes sense that the money might have been huge 2-4 years ago and then suddenly be in trouble now.

Whatever. I don't know the real facts and I'm not shedding any tears over it.
We'd still have one more numbers-matching '69 RT on earth if it weren't for HR, and now AMD is doing the new Charger panels anyway.

Dodge Don · August 02, 2007, 06:54:53 AM

Relax folks

I didn't take it as a slight. I knew I was protected if things turned out badly and Leon you know my story from the 70 site. If it meant getting my car done sooner I'd spend the $$ even though it's too much. I have zero time to hunt down rust free donor cars and I'm at the dreaded "whatever it takes to get it done and on the road" phase.

Mike is one of my closest friends out there and we may be overly enthusiastic in defending eachothers honour at times. But that's what friends do. No harm no foul.

I sent a note to Jeremy at AMD, waiting to hear back.

hemi-hampton · August 02, 2007, 09:38:29 AM

I was being sarcastic with my comment, almost didn't post it because I thought maybe it might upset someone or taking as a insult. I like Don & would not insult him & from what I've seen he's doing a great job on his car & doing it right. One thing though, Restorations take 3 things, Lots of time, lots of Money, & lots of Patience.

LEON.

Dodge Don · August 02, 2007, 01:26:55 PM

Quote from: hemi-hampton on August 02, 2007, 09:38:29 AM
I was being sarcastic with my comment, almost didn't post it because I thought maybe it might upset someone or taking as a insult. I like Don & would not insult him & from what I've seen he's doing a great job on his car & doing it right. One thing though, Restorations take 3 things, Lots of time, lots of Money, & lots of Patience. LEON.

So true. It's my patience that is running out, want to get that bad boy done and on the road.....I have Dodge Fever.

News:

Hardcore Racing - Were they at Carlylse??