Don't mess with this retired Marine!

[my73charger]

That retired Marine did nothing wrong at all.  He defended himself.  To bad he wasn't able to grab a can of tuna to cushion his hand against that thiefs head though...

[BMOTOXSTAR]

This thread is getting older than that buried Mopar they dug up last month.

[hemigeno]

That still doesn't preclude the perp from filing civil charges for Assault/Battery against Mr. Barnes, which might be something a civil attorney with nothing to lose might try on a contingency basis -- but such a lawsuit might be an uphill battle if Mr. Barnes can assert self-defense.  It'd take a pretty calloused set of jurors to reward a thief, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

What you quoted above was the gist of my comment (as I recall cause I have not revisited this post).  And please remember that jurors do NOT rule on the law -- they rule on the facts alone.  For instance, they will decide whether the Marine actually hit the victim, not whether it was legally correct for him to do so. To be fair, they will decide whether it was reasonable for the Marine to beat up the victim, not whether it was legally correct.  But it appears that state by state one can use reasonable forse to resist a property crime.  Unfortunately, the Marine, in my opinion, used excessive force.  Time will tell (and thanks for doing the legal research instead of just reacting emotionally).  Kim

I've never doubted the possibility that an attorney could run with what I consider to be a frivolous lawsuit.  However shameful that might be in my view, it's a fact.  Tort reform is long overdue, but that's a whole 'nother story.

I still strongly disagree with your equation of this perp's act to a kid's shoplifting.  That analogy just doesn't fly, but I'm not sure if you still feel that way or not since you've never followed up or clarified that line of thought.  You were pretty well browbeating us all for taking the side of Mr. Barnes and used that logic (pickpocket = petty shoplifter) to support your view.  However, since the question has been raised about whether this really is just a property crime and since Michigan's position on both the felonious crime and self-defense has been outlined, you've been pretty silent on that subject.

I respect your opinion that Mr. Barnes used excessive force, but that opinion happens to differ from mine.  I watched the video, and most of his punches were to the perp's back, and several of them were just glancing blows.  My honest feeling is that if Mr. Barnes had not been on the offensive, the perp probably would have tried to slug his way out of Mr. Barnes' grip and would have escaped.  He came close enough to getting away as it was.

Oh, and what little experience I have with real jurors leads me to believe that they do not check their emotions at the door (even though that might be the goal).  They are still presented with the evidence and asked to make a decision about whether a particular standard was achieved (e.g. Mr. Barnes felt threatened, etc.) so I don't think jurors are as one-dimensional as you mentioned.  I still believe that the average person/juror would not find too much fault with Mr. Barnes' actions - and hopefully not enough fault to reward a criminal caught in the midst of a blatant criminal act.



P.S.  This has been dragging on for a while, hasn't it??

[TruckDriver]

Here's another Marine doing justice

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070711/ap_on_fe_st/odd_bank_robber_tackled_1;_ylt=AnrxPn63.0FIkUFdnALnD_YE1vAI


Ex-Marine tackles, lectures bank robber

DECATUR, Ga. - A suspected bank robber was stopped when a former Marine knocked him down and held him until police arrived. Timothy Armstead was at a Washington Mutual Bank on Tuesday to find out how someone had stolen $100 from his account when a man wielding a fire extinguisher came in and demanded $2,000.

The man told bank employees the fire extinguisher was a bomb and they had five minutes to give him $2,000 in $50 bills, DeKalb County police said.

As employees went to the bank vault to comply, the unidentified man began loudly counting down the minutes, attracting the attention of Armstead, police spokesman Michael Payne said.

When the robber tried walking out with the money, Armstead — who was already irritated about the money missing from his account — put his daughter down and knocked the man to the ground.

The man yielded without a fight. And while they waited for police to arrive, Armstead said he lectured the man on his poor decision.

"I just told him it was a very stupid decision and now you get to spend 20 years of your life just for taking some money," Armstead told Atlanta station WSB-TV.

[Big Lebowski]

   What!!! I'm outraged!!! Have that Marine arrested for violating the civil rights of that poor bank robber. Was the poor bank robber injured from being tackled? How dare this Marine lecture this poor mis-guided bank robber. Somebody take that lousy Marine to court and take all of his assets away from him and give them to the poor mis-understood bank robber...when he gets out of prison of course. 

[bull]

last 426 said "......as I have said, you aren't generally allowed to use physical force to stop a property crime."

But guys like Kim will fight tooth and nail for a criminal to get away with using physical force to commit a property crime. Interesting line of work.

[BMOTOXSTAR]

, if I had the chance I'd buy the Marine a beer and I'd kick the lowlife thief in the nads one good time! 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_headline=i-kicked-burning-terrorist-so-hard-in-balls-that-i-tore-a-tendon-in-my-foot--&method=full&objectid=19401382&siteid=66633-name_page.html

4 July 2007
HERO CABBIE: I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON
HERO CABBIE..
By Karen Bale
A HERO cabbie who took on the Glasgow Airport terror suspects told yesterday how he booted one of them in the privates.

Alex McIlveen, 45, kicked the man, whose body was in flames, so hard that he tore a tendon in his foot.

But he said last night: "He didn't even flinch. I couldn't believe he didn't go down.

"A doctor told me later I'd damaged a tendon in my foot."

The burned suspect was named last night as Khalid Ahmed, a Lebanese doctor.

He is critically ill with burns at the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley, where he is believed to have worked.

[last426]

last 426 said "......as I have said, you aren't generally allowed to use physical force to stop a property crime."

But guys like Kim will fight tooth and nail for a criminal to get away with using physical force to commit a property crime. Interesting line of work.

You guys seem to not understand.  I will argue to put the guy away forever or to free him.  It doesn't matter a bit to me, I don't personalize my job -- it's a job for goodness' sake. I imagine my political leanings would be slightly more liberal but not much and usually based on reason.  I worked for two extremely conservative judges, writing opinions for them.  Wrote opinions that kept folks in prison, put folks in prison, and ordered a new trial for jury influence.  Wrote opinions on murderers, porn possessors, yacht racers, chicken producers, and sunglass makers, among hundreds and hundreds of others.  That is what a lawyer does.  We don't really pick and choose what cases we have to litigate.  We work for a firm and are assigned cases.  Would I represent the guy with the fire extinguisher in the criminal action?  Sure, I would.  Remember, everyone is innocent and the burden of proof is on the government.  Would I represent him in a suit against the Marine?  Sure, if my firm told me to -- that's my job.  But, and here is the big but, would my heart be in it?  Nope, as presented I feel the Marine acted reasonably. 

It's kinda like when I was a mechanic at a PVC plant.  We installed a huge puller that the company bought from an outfit in Costa Rica.  That thing broke a lot.  Should I refuse to work on it because I felt they should have gotten a machine made in America?  No, my job was to fix machines, not to make emotional or political statements.  I was a mechanic, I fixed machines.  I am a lawyer, I represent people.  It's no more complicated than that.  Kim

[bull]

I understand it's your job, Kim, but the general public does take it personally when it is endangered by people who should not be set free, or breathing for that matter. IMO guys who help get violent criminals off have got a bigger PR problem than the guys clubbing baby seals.

[last426]

I understand it's your job, Kim, but the general public does take it personally when it is endangered by people who should not be set free, or breathing for that matter. IMO guys who help get violent criminals off have got a bigger PR problem than the guys clubbing baby seals.

And on that we can finally agree.  Now let's all have a baby seal BBQ, make some coats for the wives, and hit the streets. 

Reminds me of a time, years ago, in a company van going to a power plant in the middle of no where to work a shift (Valmy, look it up).  There were about 8 of us in the van, about a mile from the plant in the middle of the desert.  The sun was just coming up and we witnessed a battle to the death.  A coyote was trying to chase down a deer.  One of the guys said, "if I had a gun I would shoot it."  I said yeah, me too, the coyote looks like he needs help.  Come to find out, they wanted to shoot the coyote, me the deer.  And so it began.  Kim

[bull]

Sure. If PETA really wanted to save the animals it would be out in the woods trying to feed veggie burgers to the coyotes and cougars.

[wjmopar]

Reminds me of a time, years ago, in a company van going to a power plant in the middle of no where to work a shift (Valmy, look it up).  There were about 8 of us in the van, about a mile from the plant in the middle of the desert.  The sun was just coming up and we witnessed a battle to the death.  A coyote was trying to chase down a deer.  One of the guys said, "if I had a gun I would shoot it."  I said yeah, me too, the coyote looks like he needs help.  Come to find out, they wanted to shoot the coyote, me the deer.  And so it began.  Kim

And so you reveal what makes guys like you tick - Always taking the side of the perp.  BTW - you convieniently ignored what I consider to be the flaw in your stance - the FACT that the original crime was more than a property crime - it became ASSAULT when the perp stuck his hand in the Marine's pocket.  What say you?

[last426]

And so you reveal what makes guys like you tick - Always taking the side of the perp.  BTW - you convieniently ignored what I consider to be the flaw in your stance - the FACT that the original crime was more than a property crime - it became ASSAULT when the perp stuck his hand in the Marine's pocket.  What say you?

Yeah, right, you nailed it, that's for sure.  I wrote a pithy comment then realized there was no reason trying to convince folks whose minds are made up.  One thing is good though -- I get paid really well for my opinions, now c'mon guys, pass around the collection plate so my kids can have some milk this month (or my hemi some gas).  Pretty please.  C'aching, fifty bucks.  If I don't hear the money coming in, I am not going to post anymore opinions.  Sorry guys but that is that. 

WJMOPAR, send your request to me privately and paypal me the money, I will get right back to you, promise.  Kim

[bull]

Isn't it about time to mention your hair color again?

[Charger1973]

 

[wjmopar]

You lose, COUNSELOR!!!!    The Marine WALKS!!!!