440 Engine Building tips...

[aone415]

Wassup everyone... well I've convinced my dad to let my cousin and I rebuild the 440 below I've attached the parts list, I'd like to get your opinion about:
1) get opinions on the parts we've chosen (it's basically the build from Mopar Muscle)
2) get any tips from those that have actually built their engines
3) how difficult is it to build an engine?  I'm a total novice but my cuz has build quite a few engines
4) which 440 build book do you recommend?

I'm really exceited about this as the engine is en route to the Machine Shop this week and should be returned by the following weekend, so your input is greatly appreciated... BTW I will add pics of the torn engine tomorrow... The Cam bearings were shot to hell and definately worth seeing

Parts List:
SpeedPro Rings
ARP Rod Bolts
SpeedPro Pistons
Clevite Main Bearings
Clevite Rod Bearings
Durobond Cam Bearings
FelPro Gasket Set
FelPro Intake Valley Pan
Milodon Freeze Plugs
Sealed Power Oil Pump
COMP Cam & Lifter Set
Summit Timing Set
COMP Dual springs
COMP Valve Lock Kit
COMP Titanium Retainers
Mopar Performance Vibration Damper
Holley Street Dominator Manifold
Barry Grant Road Demon 525
MSD Pro Billet Distributor
MSD Spark Plug Wires
Flowtech Headers

[hemigeno]

The guys that hang around the Engines section will jump all over this, I think...

[supserdave]

The main thing that jumps out at me is your carb is way to small. You want to be at a 750 or better, or your going to run out of CFM.  What are the cam specs?

[max]

there is alot of missing information in the post but i have to agree the carb is way to small for any type of performance.

the key to any engine build is to match all the parts as a package (operating rpm range) and spend alot of time going over details and not forgetting the rest of the drivetrain that needs to work with the engine.

although the book is a bit outdated the Mopar Engines Book is a good start and will help you walk through the build.

by all means make sure you degree or have someone degree the cam in, it is the difference of a good running engine compared to a great running one.

[firefighter3931]

A few things jump out on your list of parts ;

(1) as mentioned above...carb too small for a 440.
(2) Double valve springs...most hydraulic cam profiles and many solid lifter cams only require a single spring.
(3) titanium retainers....overkill and all you need is a good quality moly retainer.
(4) flowtech headers....much better options available



Ron

[Chryco Psycho]

Intake gasket use a 1215 to block the heat cross over
which Speed Pro piston ?
Not a fan of Comp cams in Mopars

[Purple440]

What's the cam profile??  Part#?

I have a BG speed demon 750 on my 440, and it's just a cruiser.  I'm not sure why you'd put a 525cfm carb on a 440.  318's will take more than that 

Is this a daily driver?

[Challenger340]

I think I missed something ?
What heads are you planning on using ?

Bigger Carb !
Which grind from Comp. Cams ?

[aone415]

Okay back with an update...

1st) thanks to everyon that responded... you all were right about the BG carb it needs to be at least a 750cfm so we'll make the change on that and probably to a holley

2) Just found out that the Crank was cracked in the 1st journal... new (used) crankshaft is being sought
3) the cam and lifter set is the comp cam CL21-228-4 which is a hydrolic cam with 241 int./247 exh. duration @ 050 lift and 110degree lobe sep. 

Firefighter... thanks for the precise advice... we are also switching to moly retainers

[aone415]

there is alot of missing information in the post but i have to agree the carb is way to small for any type of performance.

the key to any engine build is to match all the parts as a package (operating rpm range) and spend alot of time going over details and not forgetting the rest of the drivetrain that needs to work with the engine.

although the book is a bit outdated the Mopar Engines Book is a good start and will help you walk through the build.

by all means make sure you degree or have someone degree the cam in, it is the difference of a good running engine compared to a great running one.

Thanks for the info Max... ordered the book already... and cannot wait to read it cover to cover... since this is my 1st build, I'm getting tons of help from my cousin and the guys @ the speedshop where the engine is getting milled

I think I missed something ?
What heads are you planning on using ?

Bigger Carb !
Which grind from Comp. Cams ?

We will be using the stock 452 heads and giving them  a 'performance' valve job

[Purple440]

aone415 is this the right cam? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2DCL21%2D228%2D4&autoview=sku

It says the lift is .545, .480 lift is about it for unported 452's, but I saw a flow sheet that showed some gains up to .500 lift but not much.  I have the same heads you do and am using a .480 lift cam.  Also that lift seems big because of clearance issues.

Also, maybe I didn't notice, but are you using a manual or auto trans?  Your cam range is the same as mine, at least the bottom end at 2500rpm.  You'll need a stall converter or you'll end up like me with no take off with a heavy car like a Charger.

  g/l

- Doug

[firefighter3931]

The XEHL cams are nice but you will need to have the valve guides trimmed down for retainer to guide clearance with any cam exceeding .510 lift. As purple mentioned the heads stall at .500  unless they have been ported. The 240* duration will want deeper gears (3.91-4.10) and a 3000 stall speed. If you're not willing to do these mods i would suggest you look at a more modest cam that is better suited to the build. 

Assuming you don't want to port the heads and do the valve guide work then keep the lift around .500 and the duration in the 220-225*@.050 range. If using the manifolds you will want a cam with 112* lsa to reduce overlap. Crower, Lunati and Engle all make cams that would work wthin the parameters outlined above.

The converter and gearing play a big role in the final cam selection as well. 



Ron

[aone415]

Thanks for the info guys, based on your responses and that of the machine shop guy, we're looking to move to another cam.  This is all really new to me as this is my first time doing something like this EVER!  So I pose this question:

What Cam do you recommend for a 440 that's going to be more og a hwy cruiser than a strip/stoplight racer?  The car is a 727 auto

[MOPARHOUND!]

Just found out that the Crank was cracked in the 1st journal... new (used) crankshaft is being sought

Since you're buying new pistons and bearings anyway, and now a crank, might consider stroking the 440, if your budget allows:

www.440source.com

Now would be the time to do it.  Wall to wall torque.

[Purple440]

Ron's suggestion on duration is extremely important if you want good take off so keep his post in mind.  Trust me I'm living it!   

Check out
http://www.holley.com/types/Chrysler_Voodoo_Cams.asp
and
http://englecams.com/catalog/new_catalog.php

Browse those cams and see what you and your builder think.  Stay at or under .500 lift and under or at 225 @.050 duration unless your back cutting and installing a larger stall converter.  Of course if you go with aluminum heads that opens up your options.

Since your engine looks like mine I could say go with an Engle K56 or this Lunati http://www.holley.com/60302.asp (Ron's recommendation to me)

g/l

[aone415]

Purple, thanks for the info... I'm printing out this thread and taking it to the builder tomorrow  no, seriously, I am... it's really been informative

[firefighter3931]

What Cam do you recommend for a 440 that's going to be more og a hwy cruiser than a strip/stoplight racer?  The car is a 727 auto

Will you be using the stock torque converter ? What gear ratio ? What tire size ? Power brakes ? Headers ?



Ron

[aone415]

What Cam do you recommend for a 440 that's going to be more og a hwy cruiser than a strip/stoplight racer?  The car is a 727 auto

Will you be using the stock torque converter ? What gear ratio ? What tire size ? Power brakes ? Headers ?



Ron

Ron,

If possible we'd like to keep the stock converter (as this wont be a strip car), the gear ratio will be 3.55 and the rears will be 295/45/18's (I think) and I'm truly unsure about headers... I'd love TTi's but they're a bit more than I can spend... amy suggestions?

[aifilaw]

Ron,

If possible we'd like to keep the stock converter (as this wont be a strip car), the gear ratio will be 3.55 and the rears will be 295/45/18's (I think) and I'm truly unsure about headers... I'd love TTi's but they're a bit more than I can spend... amy suggestions?

Since its a highway cruiser a low converter is good, but too low will not only bog you and kill your power from take-off, but also wear your cam significantly among other things, but back to the original response I had in mind...
Spending the extra cash on the TTi's is a must in my opinion. Regardless of your choice in headers except the TTi's you will be required to dent, dimple, heat+bend, them to get them to fit. Once you do get them to fit, depending on the brand and type, you will possibly be plagued by burnt spark plug boots, wires, and overheated starters.
If you do the smart thing you'll also have them ceramic coated to help get the heat out of the engine compartment, and ceramic coating does not hold up when you have to dimple/dent/bend headers.
The resounding response is always the same, buy the TTi's, they are worth the extra money in headache now and headache later.

[firefighter3931]

What Cam do you recommend for a 440 that's going to be more og a hwy cruiser than a strip/stoplight racer?  The car is a 727 auto

Will you be using the stock torque converter ? What gear ratio ? What tire size ? Power brakes ? Headers ?



Ron

Ron,

If possible we'd like to keep the stock converter (as this wont be a strip car), the gear ratio will be 3.55 and the rears will be 295/45/18's (I think) and I'm truly unsure about headers... I'd love TTi's but they're a bit more than I can spend... amy suggestions?

Ok, the picture is clearer now....thanks for the updated info 

Cam : Engle k56 110* lsa
Headers : Thorley d152 available with nickel plating or ceramic coating. The ceramic coated headers are $300 cheaper than TTI. 

**The Thorleys will also work with an angled plugs should you decide to upgrade to an Edelbrock RPM head in the future. These are 1 3/4in primary header so they're not for race builds but will support close to 500hp if you want to step it up. These are more economical than TTI's and the tube routing is identical....w/o the big TTI pricetag. The d152's are also specificly made for tall deck (440) motors while most other brands are generic big block (383>440) headers. Basicly, it's a purpose built header for your application....much like the TTI's 



Ron

[aone415]

Thanks for the reposonses guys... Thorleys sounds nice,,, but I just talked it over with my dad and he may be good with the TTIs   We just got the rear end back from teh show and its a thing of beauty... I'll snap some pics tonite and post em

[Hot_Rodder]

Here's a converter to consider, of course there are other brands, but I had this one and it was nice on my '69
http://www.ptcrace.com/1134-torque-converter-p-1259.html
You will need to change your factory flexplate to one that will have the bolt holes line up for the 11" converter/flex plate bolts.... The 12" and 11" converters have different flex plate to converter distances from the crank centerline.