440 or 383 Which do I choose?

[RoscoePColtrain]

I will soon be purchasing a GL from ScotLea Idols, but I can't seem to decide between the 440 or 383.  The price difference is not a problem, but fuel consumption is. 
I know that parts for the 440 are harder to get than for the 383 if I required later on down the road.  I hear a 383 is easier to build up as well.  Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either?

If I were to opt for the 383, can anyone suggest a decent performance build that would give me 400+ horsepower?

Thank you

[Charger-Bodie]

id go 440! the fuel thing isnt gonna be much and the 383 will be worse than the 440 at the same power range, it takes fuel to make power .

[bull]

Yea, I don't see the 383 saving you much in gas costs over the 440. The difference between 4 and 6 isn't much. Personally I'm a big fan of the 383. I had one in my '70 and now I've got one in my '68. I ran the stuffing out of the one in my '70 for 11 years and never had any problems. In fact the current owner is just now doing the 2nd rebuild on the original engine, the same one my dad and I rebuilt back in 1986. And I'm still not convinced it really needed a rebuild in '86.

[dpm68]

440 - more bounce for the ounce!

[Troy]

In my opinion, building up a 383 will put you at or near the same fuel mileage as a 400 and will cost approximately the same. I don't know who told you the parts were harder to get because the entire top half of the engine and part of the bottom is the same. If anything, with places like 440 Source, Summit, Jegs, and Mancini, how could it be harder to find 440 parts?  Building them is nearly identical as well (cam, heads, intake, exhaust, etc.). There isn't a huge weight difference between them - although they are both relatively heavy so more torque (440) is always better. The 383 can *possibly* rev higher and might be better for higher speeds (RallyeMike put one in his open road racer). If you're cruising and just like to punch it between stop lights then it's unlikely that you'll notice the difference. Just get the 440.

If you want fuel mileage get a 318 with a 2bbl or fuel injection and keep your foot off the floor.

Troy

[ITSA426]

There's no replacement for displacement!

[TUFCAT]

440 is the best all-around Mopar engine.  Its a no brainer in this case   I wish I had one..... 383 for my car (for correctness only) and not because I necessary like it that much!

[mikesbbody]

There's no replacement for displacement!

I agree with troy its not hard find parts for the 440. more torque, more power, what more could you want? go with he 440 i say. 

[69charger2002]

yep another vote for 440 hands down. cost the same to build. why not go 440?? gas mileage with those 2 engines is not even an issue. not enough difference to matter(seriously 10 on a mild 440 versus maybe 12 on a stock 383.. but then again you said 400 hp out of a 383.. so 10 for it too..).. 440 will be strock pretty much 400 hp. torque monster too. i guess what me and everyone else are trying to say is.. 383's are great motors, but when given a choice. get a 440
trav

[Ghoste]

The 440 is almost the perfect engine.  Parts cost the same as for a 383 and parts availability is the same for them.  Neither is harder to rebuild than the other and fuel consumption will be much closer than you might think.

[Khyron]

I had this dilemma also.... but there is now a 440 in my car

[Ghoste]

Oh, I forgot to mention resale!  If you are doing a GL and not a numbers matching resto then go for the big dude.  It'll be more impressive if you ever decide to sell it, plus if you or a prospective buyer ever wanted to turn it into an RT clone, you're part way there. 

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Definately go with the 440. A 383 is fine if its the original motor or something but if your building from scratch 440 for sure. Really helps with resale too. Makes people jealous at car shows too.

[firefighter3931]

There's no replacement for displacement!

Truer words were never said 



Ron

[Goldfinger71]

IMO 440 is the way to go....HOWEVER if you want to be different go with the 383.They are great engines,you can get em' for almost nothing becuase mostly eveyone(as you can see)want's or has a 440.
I had a built 383 in a 71 RR.And becuase of that experience,I will ALWAYS keep myself open to that engine!

[Brock Samson]

 you'll get tired of sayin'... "no,.. it's a 383..  " it's so much eaiser to shake your head 

and if your worried about MPG your barkin up the wrong cottenwood.. 

[bull]

IMO 440 is the way to go....HOWEVER if you want to be different go with the 383.They are great engines,you can get em' for almost nothing becuase mostly eveyone(as you can see)want's or has a 440.
I had a built 383 in a 71 RR.And becuase of that experience,I will ALWAYS keep myself open to that engine!

Anymore it's not that easy to find 383s or 440s. Not impossible but not easy like it used to be, especially those from the desireable years.

[TUFCAT]

I don't want to dog the 383 too much    I've read other peoples opinions and agree that the 383 is also a great motor. I'm especially a fan of the stroker 383 - - 'caus thats a whole 'nutha matter!!!  Runs like a 440 - - and still looks like a stock 383.  Unfortunately, the drawback...... it costs a lot to build.  Sure makes a good sleeper!

[dodgecharger-fan]

Both are great engines. Given the choice, I'd go for a 440, though.
For me, it's just the "It's gotta 440" factor, but in reality, all of the good reasons are mentioned in the replies above.

[Big Lebowski]

  Go with da Fo Foty & put a tunnel ram on it. I can guarantee 4 miles to the gallon at idle, wide open throttle mileage will vary. One thing's for sure, it will cause the fuel gauge to move rapidly downward.

[bull]

you'll get tired of sayin'... "no,.. it's a 383..  "

I seriously doubt that. What you will get tired of saying though, no matter which one you choose is "no, this thing does not have a Hemi."

[Ricardo]

People reaction to engine blocks:

440 block : BOG WOW!!!

383 block : wow

[bull]

People reaction to engine blocks:

440 block : BOG WOW!!!

383 block : wow

People's reaction to an old Charger no matter WTF the engine is: Holy crap!! I haven't seen on of those in years!! Here, take the camera, hang out the window at 65 mph and get some shots of it for me, honey!!!

[2Gunz]

Gas Mileage? Go buy a Honda.


And 440 all the way.

[moparsons]

one more vote for 440!!!

[RoscoePColtrain]

Can anyone suggest any decent modifications to push the 383 to about approximately 450 horsepower?

Although I was always leaning toward the 440 anyways, I just wanted to weigh my options.  What are stock MPG's for the 440 and 383?  What should I expect with a .030 over engine?

[69charger2002]

stock MPG's in my experience are 9-10 in a 440, 11-12 in a 383. .030 means basically nothing as far as performance it's the internals that matter. .030 just means the cylinder walls were punched out and cleaned up for a safe stock rebuild.. if you want 450 horses out of a 383, it's not worth the trouble(compared to a 440) and your question about stock MPG goes out the window anyway. which is what the last 25 posts were about and giving advice on. just get a mildly built 440, be done with it, and expect 9 mpg if you don't act stupid in it..otherwise 5-7 is not out of the question
trav

[warriorbass05]

I will soon be purchasing a GL from ScotLea Idols, but I can't seem to decide between the 440 or 383.  The price difference is not a problem, but fuel consumption is. 
I know that parts for the 440 are harder to get than for the 383 if I required later on down the road.  I hear a 383 is easier to build up as well.  Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either?

If I were to opt for the 383, can anyone suggest a decent performance build that would give me 400+ horsepower?

Thank you

440 is what kept Rosco behind the GENERAL!!!

[Paul G]

just get a mildly built 440, be done with it, and expect 9 mpg if you don't act stupid in it..otherwise 5-7 is not out of the question
trav

  You will get more bang for the fuel usage buck with the 440. I cant get more than 9 MPG with mine. But, It's a 440. The big cahuna! The extra 1 or 2 mpg i am loosing is worth it.

BTW I have a real hard time keeping my foot out of it. 

[timmy]

440 hands down no question asked

[gojo64]

I've heard this so many times. Why would anybody that wants good gas milage even consider a big block?      

There's no replacement for displacement     440 all the way

[PocketThunder]

I've heard this so many times. Why would anybody that wants good gas milage even consider a big block?      

There's no replacement for displacement     440 all the way

Thats why i have a 440 in my 68 and soon to have a /6 in my 69.  One for the muscle and one for the mileage..

[aone415]

Another vote for the 440... I just tore oursdown 

[RoscoePColtrain]

Well, I'm not looking for anything in the 20's, because I know that is crazy, and besides, I have a Honda for that.  I didn't want anything ridiculously low like 5 MPG coz you'd never get anywhere without having to fill up again.  I will be using the car daily during the summer months up here in Canada, but didn't want to be constantly worrying about the gas level.
I was thinking in the 12-15 MPG for the 383 and around 7-10 for the 440.

How much difference in performance would putting a performance cylinder head make power wise?

[Troy]

In theory, an well-tuned engine will be more efficient so if you spend the time to match the correct parts then you should be able to get more power and possibly better mileage than stock with either engine. You can add an overdrive unit and/or use conservative rear gears to improve mileage as well. My Barracuda got 23 mpg last year on the trip home from Monster Mopar but it's a 318 car with 2.76 or 2.94 gears (meaning burnouts are not its strong point!). If you're really serious you can install fuel injection along with the above suggestions but now you've got $4-6k in "improvements" to save maybe 5-10 mpg. Which brings me to the next point - heads can easily cost $1500+ (US) so, even though you may gain 50 hp you've spent the equivalent of 500 gallons of gas. That's easily an entire summer of driving for most people even at 10 mpg. You are asking for benefits that are near polar opposites so you're going to have to compromise until you find something you can live with.

In reality, you can pick up a good, used 383 for $200-300 and, even if it gets 10 mpg gallon you'll get around 14,300 miles of driving before you spend the equivalent of a mildly built big block (roughly $4,500 based on my experience). You might even be able to find a running 440 from a C-body for that price depending on where you live. Upgrading to a stock Mopar electronic ignition is cheap and should improve mileage and reliability. Open rear differentials with highway gears (2.76, 2,94, or possibly 3.23) are always cheaper than drag gears (4.10+) with a sure grip so you can save another $500-600 there (200 gallons/2,000 miles). If you aren't building high horsepower then a relatively stock rebuild on the transmission and a good converter can save you about the same. So now you've got factory reliability and about 18,000 miles worth of gas money. Better yet, take $1,000 that you've saved to upgrade your brakes so you can stop/avoid the other people on the road before smashing your classic. You can add heads, cam, intake, carb, headers, and steeper gears at any point if you feel the need to spin tires and waste gas.

Troy

[Mean 318]

You can add heads, cam, intake, carb, headers, and steeper gears at any point if you feel the need to spin tires and waste gas.

Troy

Its not a waste if it brings a smile to your face!

[Troy]

You can add heads, cam, intake, carb, headers, and steeper gears at any point if you feel the need to spin tires and waste gas.

Troy

Its not a waste if it brings a smile to your face!

I agree - but you never see me complaining about the price of gas either.

Troy

[RoscoePColtrain]

Thank you Troy for the info, you've given me more insight.

I'm not looking for Honda fuel consumption nor a gas pig, I was just wondering if there is a good in between,  coz it costs me about $53 to fill a full tank here in the Honda at 110.4 cents/Litre ($4.18/Gallon), can't imagine what it would be for a Charger (aside: Anyone know the fuel tank capacity)

[69charger2002]

it holds 18 gallons and at $3.29 a gallon for 93  costs roughly $60 to completely fill up with 93 octane. which lasts a day-maybe 2 of good driving. you seem pretty concerned with it's fuel mileage. you sure you don't REALLY secretly want a 318? with a 383 and 440, SERIOUSLY you can't think about gas mileage. you have to block it out of your head, or you'll drive yourself crazy. it's as bad as a school bus.. it's just the way it is. i only drive mine once a week or so, it would be hard nowadays unless you have endless money to drive one every day
trav

[THE COLONEL]

Well, here is my take on it.  I waiting for word on the price of a rebuilt 440 with 450 HP that a freind has.  If the price is right, I will have that in The Colonel.  If the price is not right, I will opt for teh 383 he has as well.  I want the 440 for the novelty of having one in my car.  That was always my dream.  I don't think gas consumption will be much different either.  Also, some have said to me that with a 440, look at the money you will spend in gas.  Well, lets say for example, todays price for the 93 Octane, is $3.30, and the 87 octane is $3.00.  With the way gas prices are, after you get a 440, the price for the 93 octane next year could be $2.50.  Basically, I'm saying don't worry about gas prices, and what money you will spend, because we never know where th eprices will be in the future.  Go with what you want!

[RoscoePColtrain]

Its crazy the amount of people choosing the 440 side which I can understand, but what do you guys think of a 383 with performance heads?

[gordo1968charger]

i probably used to get about 15mpg in my 383 4 barrel with 3.23 gears.BUT I REALLY NEED A 440.not that the 383 is slow BTW.
after spending £25000 on charger and the resto,gas prices do nt  worry me at all.
what worrys me more is some punk in his honda smoking my arse at the lights and bragging how chargers are shit and slow to all his ricer buddies.

[myk]

You don't need a 440 to take on a Honda, lol.  Why are muscle car drivers so afraid of those things?  Even IF you run up against some punk with the 'ol Turbo/NOS Civic that blows you away, he's still driving a "Honda."  You're driving a "Charger." 

'Nuff said...

[G-man]

Ive heard from engine builders (more than just 1), 440 stroked out to 512 cube, 575 ft/lbs of torque, mild cam, single 4 barrel on a street dom intake, 5 speed manual running 16mpg (that was also stomping on the pedal). 18mpg if you keep your foot out of it. Stick your foot in it... well its game over.

[charger01]

So what is the outcome of this year old thread...What did you decide and where are the pics?

[The Kid]

Well, judging by his latest post (May 2nd in the Performance Corner), he still hasn't made up his mind .

[ChargerSG]

If the 383 isent matching, 440! And build it right, seen 318 drink more than my 440(untill i put the pedal to metal ) on just crusing in 60mph.

[Death1970Proof]

Seems I may be one of the few that like 383's. a 440 will net you more low end grunt but I would have to agree that a low deck big block (361-383-400 ) is much more stronger in the main web section of the block. Id really forget about great fuel mileage with either one you choose. You'd have to have an overdive tranny,or fuel injection to meet goals like that. I run carbs because I cant afford injection. As stated
it would take alot to of investment to get mileage. Either ways good luck and have fun with your choice!
If you are driving a charger I notice most people dont really care whats under the hood.  Most people are like "WOW"!!! I havent seen one of those in years!!!

[Nacho-RT74]

I will soon be purchasing a GL from ScotLea Idols, but I can't seem to decide between the 440 or 383.  The price difference is not a problem, but fuel consumption is. 
I know that parts for the 440 are harder to get than for the 383 if I required later on down the road.  I hear a 383 is easier to build up as well.  Are there any advantages/disadvantages to either?

If I were to opt for the 383, can anyone suggest a decent performance build that would give me 400+ horsepower?

Thank you

440 is what kept Rosco behind the GENERAL!!!

well, if we think the original GL1 was a 383

[4aThrill]

you'll get tired of sayin'... "no,.. it's a 383..  " it's so much eaiser to shake your head 

and if your worried about MPG your barkin up the wrong cottenwood.. 

you'll be saying no that's a 383 they will ask how'd you make all that power  do something different, people are always going to ask if it's a 440, 400 or 383 unless you have a pie tin/label somewhere but still they will ask.   

[Dave22443]

June 27th, 2007

Well, here is my take on it.  I waiting for word on the price of a rebuilt 440 with 450 HP that a freind has.  If the price is right, I will have that in The Colonel.  If the price is not right, I will opt for teh 383 he has as well.  I want the 440 for the novelty of having one in my car.  That was always my dream.  I don't think gas consumption will be much different either.  Also, some have said to me that with a 440, look at the money you will spend in gas.  Well, lets say for example, todays price for the 93 Octane, is $3.30, and the 87 octane is $3.00.  With the way gas prices are, after you get a 440, the price for the 93 octane next year could be $2.50.   Basically, I'm saying don't worry about gas prices, and what money you will spend, because we never know where th eprices will be in the future.  Go with what you want!

Boy was that way off the mark! 

[terrible one]

What about a 360 or something? A happy medium, you know?

Of course, I say 440 over 383, but I've got a mild 383 because I couldn't pass it up for the price.

[tipopiola]

440!!!!!!!!!!!

[66chargerkid]

HEy with the stock 6 packs, a good tune, we were running 17 mpg before the birdy went kaboom. And with a crappy tune we were getting 13mpg. That was highway of course. But still you can get gas mileage out of these old cars at cruising speeds.
I am kinda split. I like my dads 440, the way it ran etc. But the 383 in roadrunner is a lil hot and seems like its more fun to play around with.
I am going to put a 383 in my charger but thats because it was an original 383 car. If I had the choice I think I would go with a 6.1L hemi.
But if I couldn't do that it would FO FOTY all the way

[bzabodyn]

I have a 383 stroked to 431 ci sitting around with a 833 4-spd that needs a home in a '69 superbee if I can ever find one... if it wasn't for me having the 383 on hand, I'd be gunning for a 440-powered car right now, so 440 it is!

A mild cam, ceramic-coated headers, 3in exhaust and your ready to eat up the road!

BZ

[Death1970Proof]

What about a 360 or something? A happy medium, you know?

Of course, I say 440 over 383, but I've got a mild 383 because I couldn't pass it up for the price.

I love this option!! Except my plans changed. Im going with a 360 thats gonna soon push 408 cubic inches. It'll run cooler than a big block and weigh less(better handling) to and the use of a beefed up 904 will take less hp to run than a 727. The 408 will produce so much torque its insane. A friend has one in a '74 duster ...it's sick fast!!!

[G-man]

I love this option!! Except my plans changed. Im going with a 360 thats gonna soon push 408 cubic inches. It'll run cooler than a big block and weigh less(better handling) to and the use of a beefed up 904 will take less hp to run than a 727. The 408 will produce so much torque its insane. A friend has one in a '74 duster ...it's sick fast!!!

Small block handles better than a big block?

Yes to some extent... unless you get an alloy block, then u get the light weight + torque of a big block.

However... the size of these cars (if ur talking a charger = 117" wheel base) big block small block, they suck for handling unless u throw 20 000 at the suspension setup, custom 18" wheels, shocks, dampers etc all dialed and tuned in propperly (which is hard to find some1 that can tune propperly), u got XV motorsports stuff, but expect huge $ also. Dont forget also that small blocks rev much higher and get power much higher in the rpm range, so they wont have that pull of a big block and they wll require more service than a big block also since they are under more stress.

[Wango Mango]

I don't want to dog the 383 too much    I've read other peoples opinions and agree that the 383 is also a great motor. I'm especially a fan of the stroker 383 - - 'caus thats a whole 'nutha matter!!!  Runs like a 440 - - and still looks like a stock 383.  Unfortunately, the drawback...... it costs a lot to build.  Sure makes a good sleeper!

If its the "stock, sleeper look" you want, get a 400 block (they're cheap) & stroke it to 451 or 472.  Hard to beat a low deck stroker & you can make it look like a 383.

[terrible one]

What about a 360 or something? A happy medium, you know?

Of course, I say 440 over 383, but I've got a mild 383 because I couldn't pass it up for the price.

I love this option!! Except my plans changed. Im going with a 360 thats gonna soon push 408 cubic inches. It'll run cooler than a big block and weigh less(better handling) to and the use of a beefed up 904 will take less hp to run than a 727. The 408 will produce so much torque its insane. A friend has one in a '74 duster ...it's sick fast!!!

Awesome idea. Wasn't there a write-up by one of the Mopar Magazines about the 408 stroker, building it on a budget, and it's insane dyno sheets? I swear there was. . . and it hit like the low 500's in torque too.

[MoParMetal]

this should make up your mind

[JimShine]

I would go mild 440. This way you can leave it as is if the car does what you want. Or you can spice it up later and have a decent platform that will take you as far as you want to go.

[Death1970Proof]

I love this option!! Except my plans changed. Im going with a 360 thats gonna soon push 408 cubic inches. It'll run cooler than a big block and weigh less(better handling) to and the use of a beefed up 904 will take less hp to run than a 727. The 408 will produce so much torque its insane. A friend has one in a '74 duster ...it's sick fast!!!

Small block handles better than a big block?

Yes to some extent... unless you get an alloy block, then u get the light weight + torque of a big block.

However... the size of these cars (if ur talking a charger = 117" wheel base) big block small block, they suck for handling unless u throw 20 000 at the suspension setup, custom 18" wheels, shocks, dampers etc all dialed and tuned in propperly (which is hard to find some1 that can tune propperly), u got XV motorsports stuff, but expect huge $ also. Dont forget also that small blocks rev much higher and get power much higher in the rpm range, so they wont have that pull of a big block and they wll require more service than a big block also since they are under more stress.

Yeah but who has $$$ for an alloy block???

[RoscoePColtrain]

Been outta commission writing my physics and chem finals and will be soon making the move to Houston.
I've finally decided to go with a 383 with performance heads and headers, mild 4 bbl carb, and 4 wheel disc brakes, oh and no AC.
Soon...

[Finn]

440 for the win!

The reaction is always some exclamation followed by a big evil grin and a lot of giddy snickering

When I get mine driving () Ill post up on how the fuel injection system performs.

[gordo1968charger]

as deputy crawford once said"go big or go home".

[Kevin68N71]

Can anyone suggest any decent modifications to push the 383 to about approximately 450 horsepower?

Although I was always leaning toward the 440 anyways, I just wanted to weigh my options.  What are stock MPG's for the 440 and 383?  What should I expect with a .030 over engine?

Roscoe, here are some articles for you.  The first was a build to try to get 450+ out of the 383....

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0711_mopar_383/final_steps.html


Now, you want a step by step process with mostly bolt on parts to get 450 out of your 383?  Here it all is, with complete results.  This is an outstanding article, and I share it with you:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0209_383_engine_restore/index.html

[RoscoePColtrain]

hey Kevin, Thanks for pointing out those articles, it was a great read and gave me some things to think about. 

[Kevin68N71]

No problem Roscoe.

The nice thing about the 383 (and the 440 for that matter) is that you can simply boly on so many performance accessories to offer real power gains, and just keep the old items on a shelf in your workshop.  I still have my original manifolds!

Don't let anyone tell you that you got to bore out your cylinders to get any performance gains, or a whole bunch of questionable machine work.  If your block and heads are in good condition, you are ready to upgrade.

Headers, intake, carb, Stage IV or V heads, Chrysler's Electronic Ignition setup, cam...these can all simply be bolted on and with a little fine tuning you have gobs of horsepower.  (Ok ok, the headers ARE a pain).

On my 68, all I ever did was play around with different carbs (I have an AVS on it now), moved to the Chryco Electronic Ignition, double chain timing gear, and headers.  The thing moves out like a beast, even with an automatic and "peg leg" rear end which I never changed out.