V10 Charger (Update 5/25/21)

[GT]

The A/C system, wow... *tons* of fittings to get right depending on size, bulkheads, hardline, etc.  I will be using a Vintage Air system, but hiding the lines as much as possible... more on that later.  These pics show just the fittings on the compressor.  Seems mopar used different compressor fittings, so you nee an adaptor to go to AN so that you can attach the 90 degree fittings (with service ports) for PTFE braided lines.   These are *the* most expensive fittings I had the displeasure of purchasing...

I so look forward to having to make all of the lines themselves...  probably two weeks of effort... more on that later too.

[GT]

Now on to the power steering - and probably the biggest single tip for y'all.   As I am running the Alterkation - it has a "ford" rack.  If you use this rack with GM or Chrysler power steering pumps they will be over assisted.  You will find all sorts of vendors selling you custom tuned/adjusted/etc. power steering boxes/hoses and in this case it really comes down to the flow control valve on the power steering pump.  In my case, I needed one with an An fitting.   Turns out, these are easy to get in many flow configurations to tune the amount of assist.   

Here is the old unit removed, the AN fittings on the rack, and followed by the new flow valve that also has a 120 degree An fitting to direct the high pressure hose in the correct direction.

Oh yeah, when looking for fittings, be cautious that you get the correct type for the right hose and pressure... what works for, say a fuel line, wont work for power steering, AC, etc. 

[GT]

Ahh yes... engine & tranny mounts again.  And for the LAST time.  After deciding to set the motor back further, I need to make new mounts.  I wasn't happy with the first set anyway that used biscuit mounts. 

For the engine mounts I used 2" DOM tubing and plate steel... After spending several days aligning the engine/tranny and double checking drive train angles, I fired up the cutter and welder.  Wasn't the easiest of tasks given my 110V MIG.  I really need a larger unit, but plan to spring for TIG instead to do Alum/stainless:

[GT]

And the tranny mount, which turned out exceptionally well.  You will note four exhaust pipe clearance sections added.  That will become more obvious down the road as I assemble the exhaust system (which should be COOL as heck when done).    I will need to modify the cross member a little bit more then tie it together.  I don't think its necessary as I am not using torsion bars, but better safe than sorry.

[GT]

Some more firewall updates.  I have it partially constructed, then stopped when I needed to determine the engine/PCM pass thru... which thru a major curve into my progress as I had not anticipated jacking with the wire harness at this point...

I cut away the wiper motor area and part of the cowl to gain clearance.  I have an after market wiper system I intend to use, just need to figure out how I want it done.  I don't care for the aftermarket wiper posts and would like to adapt it to use the stock units... another project for another time.

When I started modifying the wiring harness, it mandated that I remove the intake and valve covers - not happy about it, but I was able to validate that I have clearance to remove them after the firewall is done 

[GT]

For the first time, the engine and tranny are connected to the Dana 60.   I purchased a custom length 4" aluminum driveshaft and had them use my tranny yoke and high speed balance the entire assembly.  Went with Spicer XL joints (1350). 

As it turns out, the yoke for a SRT-10 T56 is unique.  While a yoke from a viper or ford/gm T-56 would physically slide onto the output shaft, the Truck version is seriously thicker/stouter.  Glad I saved mine as there is no aftermarket available and the only way to get one is by the complete shaft from Mopar (I heard that the Viper shaft from the TR6060? is similar). 

At any rate, if you find yourself with a Truck SRT-10 T56, make sure it comes with the yoke.  Another possibility is to swap out the tail shaft assembly...

[GT]

And here is the tunnel tacked in.  I'm pleased with the clean install, and plenty of clearance around the 4" drive shaft.  This tunnel incorporates both the need for the 4" as well as the raising of the drive train for the lower ride of the car.

[GT]

Now the tale of my wiring woes...  I knew I needed to modify the wiring harness as well as have the PCM reprogrammed.  I also need to determine the pass thru in the firewall as I intend to have the PCM inside of the car and use some type of Mil-spec type of quick connect.   

Well to have the new engine harness made, I have to remove the old one, which, Dodge, in their infinite wisdom, decided to run underneath the intake manifold (injector wiring and both coil packs sit there).  Off comes the manifold.  And I might as well take off the valve covers too and have them all redone.   

Engine was very clean, reflecting the low mileage.  Note that I am smoothing (not polishing) the intake to take a nice appearance from the coating.

And yes, the engine is wrapped in plastic to keep the boogers out of it.

[GT]

And the cursed wiring... I found at least one place that would make a new viper harness - but they need to send in yours.  I just could not stomach the excessive price (over $1,500 including the mil-spec connector) for something I know I can tackle myself.

Here is part of the harness, followed by my temp harness, what was not used (on the floor) and a quick snap shot of my work bench.

The 2004 SRT FSM has ~8,500 pages in it with about 4,600 pages for wiring alone.  I've averaged 3-4 hours a night for two weeks tracing, testing, understanding each wire to know what to modify and what to leave.  It didn't help that my harness was an early release so it did not match what was in the FSM...

Once the PCM returns, I'll plug it and the temp harness in to test fire the engine and verity all is good.  Then i'll make the harness look nice.

[six-tee-nine]

 

[fy469rtse]

good god , me too 
great work

[472 R/T SE]

GT, there's a few Viper Chargers out there nowadays correct?

Have you paid attention to any of the other ones to see how similar your builds are?

[GT]

Yes i have.  Remember i started this a long time back.  At the time there was just the silver 68?  I think Matt Delanie?   Since then i've "seen" sparse photos of two others plus the obviously nice work of one of our own members here.  I spent a lot of time with an owner of a ~71 roadrunner with a viper engine, etc.   Its not so much the other "chargers" out there as the unique challenges of the packaging and electronics that is the difficulty.  I've probably found at least 20 or so viper swaps into all manner of hotrods.

Typically it comes down to a couple of things:
1) Someone "paid" to have it done, so they could answer few questions.
2) Folks unwilling to part with their secrets.
3) Most viper boards are not welcoming at all... I've had good luck work with a couple folks on the VTCOA board.
4) Few vendors deal with viper customizations - those that do (are usually good) but there is a serious VIPER tax that makes the Hemi tax look cheap.

I love the classics and fully restored muscle cars... but these resto-mods/pro-touring/etc. cars get mixed reviews and support.  Classic owners disdain them, new modern owners don't see the point, etc.

I see it as pure and simple hot rodding.  Something to share.  Take it as it is.  I just don't understand those that won't share what they learned...  I don't proclaim to be an expert - but i sure as heck will help anyone out that asks what i did - both the good and bad (just go thru this thread to see the horrors that i went thru).   

Its a hobby and sharing it is the FUN part.   I just love it when a do-it-yourself'er posts mods on their chargers.  I also love the fact that this board is always welcoming and rarely poo-poos someone's work.  Their ride, they did it, they like - GO FOR IT

[hollywood1336]

I hear what you are saying GT, my car is the green 68 with the GEN2 Viper motor. When I first started I couldn't get anyone to answer questions. Even the pros at Mopar performance were reluctant, "We don't deal with  builds like that". Dan Lessor at Viper Specialty Performance has been a God send to me in getting the motor running, providing discontinued parts and answering all my questions, he is a Top guy.
I tried to contact the people who built the silver Charger, and there was another guy in a red one on Youtube with a GEN2 motor, I actually got his email but never got any replies to my questions.
It has been a journey but not rocket science, a little patience, reading and back breaking work and it came together very nice. Also, I'm like you, part of the journey is sharing the experience, I am always willing to answer questions and help out in any way I can, try and save the next person time and a lot of money along the way. I live in San Diego, and although people love and respect the original old muscles, the resto-mods are starting to get huge attention and respect. The purists don't like them but a very large percentage of the people I have spoken to love the original old look and all the modern conveniences.

[472 R/T SE]

 

Its a hobby and sharing it is the FUN part.   I just love it when a do-it-yourself'er posts mods on their chargers.  I also love the fact that this board is always welcoming and rarely poo-poos someone's work.  Their ride, they did it, they like - GO FOR IT

Hmmm, an opinion I guess.

Try posting some questions about your other Charger, the SRT8, here.  It's not like it used to be but I'm sure the members would be easy on you since you have the Viper Charger build going on.  If it weren't for the VC, wanna bet you'd be treated like those other places you talked about?   

Imo, they should have kept the 2011-2014 redesign around a little longer.  Out of the 3 designs I like then best.

[GT]

Finished the temporary harness.  This will allow me to validate that I made it correctly and test fire the engine when the modified PCM arrives. 

Hooked it up to a power supply and functionally tested relays/etc.    Clockwise from the left: Fuel pump harness, ignition switch, Data connector, Fuel pump relay, ASD relay, Starter relay, interlock switch, push start button, bags of wires i'll remove with a couple PCM connectors in the middle, below that is a temp fuse block.

This harness will plug into the unmodified engine harness. 

When i am sure it works, i'll remove all unneeded wires/connectors and merge it into the engine harness (and remove unneeded things from it as well).  Add a mil-spec type firewall connector and be done with it.

Also picked up the last of the sheet metal i should need to complete the trans tunnel.

[GT]

Hit a couple of snags that slowed me down.  I sent the PCM off to be reprogrammed. When it arrived, I connected up everything and it fired right up - but only ran about 2 seconds before shutting down.   The folks that modified it forgot to disable the SKIM/security stuff, so I had to send it back... My fear was that I messed up the wire harness (turns out all was good).  Wasted a good month dealing with that hassle. 

In the mean time I did finish the install of the steering column (Flaming River) as well as a couple more sections of the transmission tunnel.  I should have that wrapped up next weekend.

I posted up a video of the first (successful) engine start.  Enjoy: https://youtu.be/703XZgiwJJo

[Stevearino]

I take it you have seen this one too.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhySuW35D1Q  By the way this is a great looking build and a big  for working outside the box on your own idea of what your dream car should be.

[keepat]

Motor sounds great! congrats, that's a big milestone to get the motor running!
Good luck with the rest of the build!
Pat

[sardillim]

I find it interesting that two people doing similar builds came up with basically the same design when it came to modifying the fire wall.     Nice Job with the wiring once I have the back end of my car finished I'm going back to the front to sort out the cooling, A/C and the wiring etc.    Care to share your harness Mods?

Keep up the Good Work

Mike

[GT]

Absolutely I will share the mods.  It really wasn't too hard - if you have an '04 with 6/spd then you can duplicate what i did.  Let me know when you are ready and I'll clean up my file/notes and shoot them to you.  

One big note - the Engine harness only has two of the PCM connectors (and a third junction connector C-128/C-130).  The third PCM connector is on the firewall harness (which I had) as well as the other end of the junction harness.   Really makes no sense why dodge did it the way they did.   Hopefully you have both harnesses or you will need to source one connector (C3- The Gray one).  I had the FSM to go by, and it had a number of errors that made it interesting (such as a picture of the C-128 junction harness which matched mine, but only the pin-outs for C-130 - that took a long time to figure out via tracing/testing). Definitely a number of ECN's in place when they created it.

In the end, you'll have the PCM, harness with three connectors, nearly 100% of the engine harness, and three relays: Starter relay, ASD relay, and Fuel pump relay.    The starter and fuel pump relays are straight forward, the ASD (Automatic Shut Down) is more difficult - kinda odd how it is used by the PCM.  

All of the sensors have a common ground that terminates within the PCM (don't tie the sensor grounds to normal ground).  The only unused sensor is the oil temp - the PCM does not monitor it.    I am using Autometer gages, which means i will have a number of duplicated sensors...

What was odd is that my factor harness actually had an extra relay that had wires connected that terminated no where... just an extra unused relay...I also found an inline mini-fuse that was wrapped within the harness... good luck finding it if if ever blows... just bizarre stuff like that riddled within the harness.   I would not be surprised if your harness had oddities as well.

Oh yeah, the FSM has wiring diagrams for knock-sensors... but my engine didn't have them.  Evidently knock sensors where added in '05 models.   If you are not running CATs, then you will want to remove the rear O2 sensors.

[sardillim]

Sounds Good   I am also running an 04 driveline.  Looks like i'm off the car for a little while.  summer  nice weather stuff to do around the house yada yada yada.   Glad to see someone making progress!

[K9COP]

Very logical concept and great work guys... now, when my 440 starts to get tired....


K9

[GT]

Time for another update.  Spending most of my time working thru electricals and computer systems that will be needed... more on that later.

Here is a finish shot of the firewall.  I also installed the mock Vintage Air box - Gen IV.  Very very tight fight with the enlarged transmission tunnel.   I'll need to work the AC/Heat pass thru lines via under the fender next.

[GT]

Also determined the final resting place for the PCM.  Due to the location of the Vintage Air box, there is a nice 4" space behind it. 

But the largest time spent was engineering out the wiper system... shed a lot of tears over it.  It works well, but I am still not 100% happy with it...  Basically adapted the wiper motor system from Power Window Specialties and connected it to the stock under dash linkages and used some delrin and bushings to convert the horizontal motor movement to the arc of the linkages.  Ugh.   Fits nice and tight up under the dash.  I ran it for a couple of hours off a battery.  Delrin is amazing stuff!

Here is the mechanical wonder at work: http://youtu.be/BO0BmYLjPGA

And a shot showing location of the wiper motor, PCM and HVAC unit.  I still need to determine locations of the Infinity Mastercell and one power cell under the dash, amongst other things...