4 speed and clutch question.

[69XP383]

Hey all,

I have a 4 speed sitting here in the garage taht will eventually end up in my 69 charger. What maintenence/service should I do, if any,  before I put it back in the car? I already noticed that the rear seal needs to be replaced. Any internal workings that sould be looked at? the front shaft has a small amout of play in it, is this normal.

Next, how do I determine what size clutch assembly to buy? It is going behind a 69 383 with a 4 barrell; I'm not 100% sure if it's a H.P. engine or not. Do I just count the splines on the front tranny shaft and match the clutch to it? I saw on the summitt racing web page that the H.P. 383 calls for an 11 inch clutch, while other 383's may have called for the 10.5 or even a 10.95 I believe. Can I just measure the bell housing in some way to determine this?

Finally, the tranny has a hurst shifter and I need the shifter linkage bars and/or a replacement kit that I can purchase to replace one or two missing links; some of the washers/spacers are missing as well. Who is a good supplier?

Sorry for the question, I feel like a dee, dee, dee, but I know nothing about manual transmissions, and i know even less about MOPAR's...

[Ghoste]

A small amount of play is normal, I forget the spec.  Look at the teeth on the brass stop rings for normal wear and look over the rest for chips on the teeth.  Make sure the synchro clutch moves back and forth easily.  As for bushing wear and mainshaft endplay, I think you will need to tear it down more for that.  With the rebuid kits available, I'd tear it down and go through it anyway.
The clutch will depend on the input splines and the flywheel.  You should be able to order Hurst parts from just about any speed shop.

[Chatt69chgr]

When you tear the unit down, pay special attention to the clutching teeth on the gears.  Particularly on 2nd and 3rd gear.  Do some surfing and there are sites that show what they should look like.  Zumbrota Bearing and Gear have new gears available separately if you need them.  Also check out the countershaft for brinnelling.  Need to set the end play on countershaft when rebuilding----with shims.  Brewers has nice rebuild kits with all the gaskets, bearings and seals available.  The synchro rings don't come in it but they have them too.  I think you need a special tool to replace the output shaft bearing.  Check out Brewers site as they have lots of good info and are very nice people to talk to on the phone.  Best to bone up by surfing the net before calling them so you will ask the "right" questions and not waste too much of their time.

Check out Centerforce website for good info on the clutch and pressure plate/flywheel.

Summit has the linkage for sale.  I think B E &A Restoration has this too and for a good price.

Bellhousing determines if you have a 10.5 inch or 11 inch setup.  You can look up the casting number and determine what yours is.  Also, need to make sure the clutch fork is correct one.  Brewers has good info on this.  I think the 10.5 inch has a 130 tooth flywheel while the 11 inch has a 143 tooth flywheel.  Clutch will differ not only in diameter but in spline count, ie, 18 or 23 spline.  You transmission input shaft will determine which you will have to have.

You will need to decide on what style of pressure plate you want to go with.  They came with the 3 finger Borg and Beck style.  Centerforce has the type with multiple fingers which reduces the clutch pedal effort. 

[69XP383]

Chatt,

Thanks, most of that made sense. The tranny was in very good shape. The only problems I found were that the reverse detent bearing (looks like a larger ball bearing was laying in the bottom of the case) had apparently fell out when the last person serviced it.

The second problem was the threads on the reverse fork shifter was stripped (where the hurst linkage plates mount). Any easy fix for the threads and if not, where can I get a replacement shifter fork shaft? The 1st/2nd threads are iffy was well.

Brian

[Ghoste]

Are you talking about the rods from the shifter to the transmission?  Brewwers or Passons may have those.  Hurst too for that matter.

[69XP383]

Ghost,

Exactly; shifter to tranny. Found some at B E & A, they look a little offset than the hurst ones for some reason, I'll Call em' later and find out. Hurst web site loads way to slow for me (I'm on crappy dial up) I'll call them too. At least I'm getting somewhere; e-bay sellers are trying to get top dollar for their used parts; Found some at summit as well, but I again will have to call because I can't narrow the part number.

Still having a hard time determining bell housing/clutch size, i.e., 11inch or 10.5 inch. 833 4 speed; 23 spline. The only number I could find on the bell housing were as follows:

Top stamp #- 2892513
Bottom stamp # 05102

Also, after the chrysler emblem on the rear of the housing next to the left of the stamp casting numbers is the #69 (I assume to year 1969).

[Ghoste]

10.5

[69XP383]

One more question before heading off to bead,

Tranny (833 4 speed) has casting number PP833 3156. On the 10K calendar, where does 3156 put me for a date, and will I have any problems putting this trans. in my 69 charger? It came stock with a four speed, but I've seen some questions about short vs. long shafts and problems one might encounter installing them in one year car vs. another year car and so on...

[tecmopar]

The "513" bellhousing is for the 10 1/2" clutch and has the 4.80 hole for the front bearing retainer on the trans. The 3156 date is mid '70's, does the trans have 2, 3 bolt mounting areas for the shifter, one front and one at the very back, a pic would help. On the reverse shift shaft there are 2 ways to fix it, one is to rethread it for a 1/4-24 nut, not the best but it usually holds up because you don't use reverse that much, and the other is to disassemble the trans and change it, not easy. You state that the other 2 are also questionable but those are an easy replace. What condition are the lands/rectangles that the shift levers slip on to because if their badly worn then you'll have trouble getting it to shift correctly because they should not move around on there and the nuts just don't grab them tight enough, again pics would really help. As far as the shift rods go, I have a Mint and Correct set of rods and levers for your application. Any other ?'s you can PM me, good luck.

[Chatt69chgr]

Brewer's Performance website has a section under transmission parts listing extension housings (tailshaft) for sale.  If you click on a particular one, it will bring up info including the casting number so you could identify yours.  If you call them, write down the casting number on the Input Bearing Retainer and the Extension Housing as you will need these to talk to them--they don't care about any of the other numbers on the transmission.  I believe they can answer all of your questions as far as gear ratios you have, exactly what transmission you have, and any issues you might encounter installing it in your 69.  One area to cover with them is the transmission crossmember.  I do know that the 69 down are different than the 70 up.  Also, the 69 down used different one for automatic and 4-speed but 70 up used the same one.  They can set you straight on this.  You will need a slip yoke for the transmission.  Make sure you have the right spline count slip yoke to match up with your transmission.   The std slip yoke is 2-1/8 inch inside dia (where the u-joint goes---a 7260).  The heavier piece is 2-5/8 inch dia (a 7290).  They make conversion u-joints to go between the two if needed.  Driveshaft length may not end up being correct.  Locally, we can get one made for $200 balanced.  Thats for a 3-1/4 inch tube with either the 7260 or 7290 weld flanges attached.

You said that your car was orginally a 4-speed.  If it has the orginal motor, then the end of the crank will be drilled for the bearing that the transmission input shaft fits in to since the crank will be a forged steel crank (which was internally balanced).  Cast cranks used on automatics are not drilled (they can be but this is a machine shop job and are externally balanced---this being accomplished on the torque converter in an automatic or on the flywheel in a straight shift).  The crank end flange will be 6-bolt (8-bolt being used on hemi exclusively I believe).

[Chryco Psycho]

you can use the 10.95" clutch on a 130 tooth flywheel , 44o source has the best price on flywheels , I use McLeod clutches non diaphragm style

[69XP383]

Advantages using a 10.95 over a 10.5?

I recently heard somewhere that larger clutches have no real advantages over smaller ones especially in my application - basically stock.

All I'd like is an aftermarket clutch with a little more holding power and lighter clutch pedal. Leaning towards a Zoom or Centerforce application as Chatt69cgr recommended.

[Chryco Psycho]

more surface area = more bite with less pressure
personally I am not a fan of the diaphragm style clutches

[Ghoste]

Isn't the Centerforce supposed to be some kind of hybrid that overcomes the traditional hanging up problem of diaphragm units CP?

[69XP383]

Just so I get it right when I actually begin working on the clutch area, with my bell housing (cast #2892513) I should should be a looking at 10.5 clutch/flywheel?

I CAN use a 10.95 application, with possibly some advantages, but as long as the two are matched to my housing and tranny (tranny = 23 spline input shaft with a 4.80 bearing retainer) I can buy either/or kit without any problems.....right?

Mind you, I'm guessing that the 11" flywheel will always have more teeth (143) than the 10.5" (130)...its just the spline count on the shaft that I should be concerned about i.e. 18 vs. 23....right?

Irregardless, I should NOT be looking at installing an 11" clutch....correct?

Sorry for being so ignorant, but I think I've got it just about figured out with everyones help. Clutch wont be installed for a while, but I'm trying to get all of many un-answered "think ahead" questions out of the way.

Thanks

[Ghoste]

Yes.