Water base paint.

[65post]

The rep from PPG has told us that all solvent based paint will be out of production here in Canada by the beginning of 2009.To be replaced with water base.I have no clue about this type of paint.Never used it.Would like some info.Here on the east coast it is often very humid in the summer.I have an ordinary paint booth . Nothing fancy.No down draft here..Just a clean booth.What will I have to do different?The rep for PPG could not  even give me any details on it except there will be only one line of base and the prices would be higher than the global line is now...Terry

[MichaelRW]

There are some substantial changes that must be made for waterborne paints. Good airflow across the vehicle is very important with these paints. With a good downdraft booth with existing good airflow the changes will be minimal. Just a couple explosion proof floor fans in two of the corners. For booths with little airflow, major changes may be needed. It also may vary depending on the paint supplier you go with.

I am facing the same deadlines in California as you are in Canada. A couple of things - don't wait until the last minute. Because most will and the paint vendors will be spread very thin then. I plan on changing within the next 3 months for this very reason and also using it as leverage to get some freebies from the vendor I select. Currently I use DuPont but will probably change because their service is practically non-existent. So I have asked PPG & Sherwin-Williams to bring proposals to me if I switch to them soon. I've received the proposal from SW and it is great. Waiting on PPG.

To answer many of your more specific questions ask your PPG rep for their publication called "Convert With Confidence" and their flyer called "Envirobase high performance waterborne basecoat" On the upside the waterborne basecoats are supposed to cover much better and apply easier than the solvent based. Mixing banks are not needed with PPG's line, you just shake the container a little and it's ready to mix.

[hemi-hampton]

Paint Company's have been experimenting with Waterborne waterbased paint for the past 20 years. I sprayed it many many years ago & it sucked.  As far as I know it never met any widespread use becuse they have not been able to work the bugs out year after year.   I'm not looking forward to it but hopefully they finally worked the bugs out but I doubt it, Probably still sucks.  Custom air brush paint like Autoaircolor is waterbased & I think the mass acceptance and widespread use of this product lately has help pushed water base paint? LEON.

[MichaelRW]

It's been in use in Europe for years. Many of the high end cars, Mercedes, BMW have waterborne paint on them.

[NorwayCharger]

It's been in use in Europe for years. Many of the high end cars, Mercedes, BMW have waterborne paint on them.

You´re right, in fact after 01.01-2007 it is no more solvent base paint produced.
I have used PPG water base, but i use RM now.
And it works great, but you must have a lot of air in your booth.

[DC_1]

We are spraying it.... and have been for a month. I have a brand new Garmat down draft with Accle Cure fans. It does seem to be sensative to conditions such as humidity but so far it has been turning out quite well.

[65post]

Does it spray the same as the old stuff ?

[DC_1]

Does it spray the same as the old stuff ?

Pretty much yes....as stated above the biggest thing that needs to be addressed is air flow. You need good air flow in the both to get the water to evaporate and the paint to dry.

[hemi-hampton]

What if you do not have a Spray booth & or no air flow? Then what happens? You cant use it or spray it? LEON.

[Mike DC]

What if you do not have a Spray booth & or no air flow? Then what happens? You cant use it or spray it? scratchchin LEON

Witness the end of home-sprayed paintjobs, I suspect.  EPA strikes again. 

 

[DC_1]

What if you do not have a Spray booth & or no air flow? Then what happens? You cant use it or spray it? LEON.

Oh you can spray it.......trying to get it to dry is another question though.

[Steve P.]

Ok guys. I am bringing this topic back from the dead. It's been about 7 and a half years since we put it to bed, but since than I haven't heard much on the subject....

So whats the real story here?? Did they stop producing everything but WATER BASED paints?? Are you guys now using them and what is your opinion on them now?

[Charger-Bodie]

Both are still available . We switched to Sikkens autowave waterbourne in 2011.we love the stuff!

[bill440rt]

Here in NJ both water & solvent-borne paints are available. I hope solvent paints are still out there for some time, like MikeDC stated say goodbye to the do-it-yourself at home stuff if water takes over 100%.
The basecoat is water based. Clearcoats are still solvent base here.

Many shops around here have converted to water. The initial transition is tough. Getting used to the product, new airflow/drying systems in the booth, etc.
But, once the acclimation period is over the feedback I hear is that they love the stuff as well. 

[Charger-Bodie]

Don't yourself des can still spraying. It will just take longer to dry between coats without good air movement. It's really easy to adjust to. Imo

[The70RT]

How could clear ever be nothing but solvent based?

[bill440rt]

Don't yourself des can still spraying. It will just take longer to dry between coats without good air movement. It's really easy to adjust to. Imo

Well, that's great to know!! 

How could clear ever be nothing but solvent based?

I've heard there are water-based clears in the works. 

[Steve P.]

So in a nutshell, it sounds like waterborne pains are more DIY friendly since most DIYers are certainly going to be slower at painting a full car and since the fans should not have to be explosion proof the cost of big volume fans should not be in the unobtainable range. Sounds more like a case for a good design and pressurizing the booth for the least boogers and best results.

I have just built a wall between my bays and the ceiling is still open to the attic/trusses. I'm thinking a few rows of filters in the overhead ducted from a couple large blowers and a boxed return at the floor on each side of the car directed outside should about do it... Maybe even a smaller blower inside of each to more direct the exhaust..  What do you guys think?? 

[bill440rt]

The trick with this waterborne paint is dry/flash time between coats. When converting from solvent to water, shops are installing kits in their spray booths (fans, etc) specifically for spraying waterborne paints. Yes, they need more airflow.
Think of drying out a wet floor or drywall with those large fans. They speed up the evaporation of water.

I think it's gonna be harder at home to spray waterborne paints.

[The70RT]

So I guess the slower it dries it picks up more airborne particles? can it be sanded?

[Charger-Bodie]

I should clarify that the dry time is longer it's not by much. Solvent is more forgiving about hitting it with the next coat before its dry. Which you will usually pay for in gloss retention. Water just won't let you rush it. I mean it will but you will have a sliding mess right away. That's one of the reasons it will be somewhat better for diy, it's dull when dry and shiny when still wet. As for dirt , it doesn't seem to be as prone to dirt to me. And yes it can be sanded , but not wet sAnded.

[Steve P.]

So is there a rule of thumb for time ~v~ humidity? Meaning can you sort of set your timer as per the amount of humidity in the booth?

[Charger-Bodie]

There's more to the equation than that. Temp air movement. Humidity. How much water(reducer) was required for the paint. Solids can be sprayed with less water  (reducer). How heavy the coat was.

Some paint lines have you spray the water different,but with sikkens it is sprayed as follows .29 psi at the gun ....sata 4000 here with 1.4 tip. First coat barely full wet. Let dry until fully flashed.Second coat 40% wet coat one way(up and down) and another imidiatly following the opposite way( end to end). If coverage is achieved,which it usually is by then drop the air pressure to 25 psi and do a drop coat. Spray this coat about 16 inches away and aim to achieve the look if tiny marbles on the surface. It will not look like it's wet at this point, but if you touch it you will find out it is wet. Wait for that to be completely dry and spray clear as per normal.


One thing that will become even more important is the amount of moisture in the air lines. There reall can't be any.

[Steve P.]

Maybe we can talk you into a HOW TO VIDEO?? ?? ?? ??   

[Troy]

Maybe we can talk you into a HOW TO VIDEO?? ?? ?? ??   

Not a chance! Brian is so speedy that you'd just see a blur in between the rusted hulk and finished car.

Troy

[The70RT]

No kidding

[Steve P.]

Hahahaha.... So are you saying another person with as camera won't be able to keep up??  lol....

[Charger-Bodie]

Maybe we can talk you into a HOW TO VIDEO?? ?? ?? ??   

Not a chance! Brian is so speedy that you'd just see a blur in between the rusted hulk and finished car.

Troy

lol Troy . I'm not that fast in my old age..... As for a how to? I could possibly do that , aftery 69 is more under control.

[Steve P.]