How can one find company profit margins? I'd like to verify that Exxon made $10b

[bull]

A DJ on a local radio station today said that Exxon made a record $10billion (yea, BILLION) in the first quarter of '05. How does one verify such information? Does the Wall Street Journal website have this kind of information?

If this information is correct it's just a complete outrage. I don't know what can be done that would truly have an impact the oil companies' bottom line but I'd sure like to find a sure-fire method of doing it. It sure isn't the "don't buy gas on Tuesday" scheme. There's got to be some federal price-fixing law that can be interpreted to call the oil companies into question. I'll admit it, I'd just like to see them suffer big time for what they're doing. They are driving the American economy into the ground and getting rich doing it.

Sorry. Rant over.

[Troy]

Sorry, that is $7.86 billion in Q1 and $7.64 billion in Q2. They made a little over $25 billion last year ($8.42 billion in Q4, $5.68 billion in Q3, and $5.79 billion in Q2). Make sure you read the what/why/how before jumping to conclusions...

The gap between crude oil costs and prices for refined fuels was the widest ever, as consumption rose faster than supplies. Exxon's refining and marketing profit rose 34 percent, to $2.02 billion, mostly outside the United States.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/28/AR2005072802085.html

You can find info at places like thestreet.com or most any news service like Yahoo.
http://tools.thestreet.com/rmy/quotes.html?pg=qcn&symb=XOM

OR, you could always try Google:
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=exxon+profit&num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=off

Troy

[bull]

Apparently the oil companies will maintain these large profit margins no matter what the supply vs. demand until the supply completely dries up because demand keeps increasing. Perhaps they are bracing themselves for a shortage by raising the prices, I don't know, I'm not an ecomomist but that is a HUGE profit margin. I found this quote interesting: "The quarterly profit was the third-highest in the company's history. Revenue climbed 25 percent, to $88.57 billion, Exxon said. A doubling of oil prices since 2003 has put the Irving, Tex.-based company on a pace to surpass Wal-Mart Stores Inc. this year as the largest U.S. company by total revenue." So basically, no matter how much of a challenge they have in finding new sources of oil they will continue to make profits in the billions unless the demand drops off, which I don't see happening. They can talk about how much it costs for research and development and all that but we are talking profit here. That's AFTER payroll, research costs, refinement costs, advertising, etc.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Gee, we wouldn't want them to make a profit would we?  Welcome to freedom.

[Rocky]

Vain:

All I know is that Exxon is buying back stock at an average of 5 billion a quarter. 

If shareholders are an ever diminishing number, than who is receiving all the extra profits?

I have friends at several levels at Sea River(Exxon's CYA company since Valdeze)  they know, and I do too.

It's criminal.

[Troy]

Stop buying gas, oil, plastic, and don't fly or ride public transportation and they'll go out of business...

Troy

[Arthu®]

Or invent a usuable substitude for fosil fuels. Now really than you would make billions and what would you think about the people that would be whining about you making a billion. That's probably the same as the people of exxon think right now.

Arthur

[bull]

Gee, we wouldn't want them to make a profit would we?   Welcome to freedom.

It's not that simple when it comes to oil. We're not talking about stupid consumer items like ipods, digital cameras and Coca-Cola -- basically everything WalMart sells. This economy of this nation is almost completely dependent on oil. They might as well be selling air.

Posted on: Today at 08:19:17 AMPosted by: Troy 
Insert Quote
Stop buying gas, oil, plastic, and don't fly or ride public transportation and they'll go out of business...

Troy

Very funny. You've just helped me make the point I made above.

[Troy]

Walmart sells food and clothing along with a whole host of necessities. What is a greater necessity: gas or food? I can live without gas. People in other countries live just fine without gas as well. Walmart is still a bigger company than Exxon so apparently people can afford all those "stupid consumer items". The people who continue to buy the products out of convenience are as much to blame as the company selling the products. Think of it this way, if we had some federal law to regulate what a company can charge then they may just decide that it isn't worth doing business here. Where would we be if Exxon just packed up and left the U.S. to sell oil/gas in China?

I guess I should also point out that Exxon had $88.6 billion in sales to make that $7.64 billion in profits which equates to 8.6% of sales. In the same time period, Lowe's (Home improvement) made 7%, Motorola made 10.6%, and Lucent made 15.9% yet I haven't seen a single thread about regulating them.

Troy

[bull]

Walmart sells food and clothing along with a whole host of necessities. What is a greater necessity: gas or food? I can live without gas.

Troy

Really? I'd like to see how long this nation could last without gas and diesel. Does the food at WalMart just appear on the shelves or does a midwest farmer grow it using a diesel-powered tractor? How does the food get from the farm to the processing plant? Diesel-powered trains, trucks or ships. How does it get from there to the distribution plants, and from there to the stores? When the price of oil goes up so does the price of everything else, even food, "a whole host of necessities" and "stupid consumer items." If we ever run out of oil I suggest you make sure you head for the mountains with a nice cache of weapons and ammo, a how-to book on hunting fishing, one on Amish farming practices and another on building log homes. You can probably get all that stuff at WalMart while the other idiots are grabbing plasma TVs.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Since when did the free market become criminal?

[Troy]

I said *I* (me, personally) could live without gas - I didn't say the entire nation could. Did you read the rest of it? I definitely could live on half of the gas I buy now but too many people would rather complain about profits and prices instead of doing anything themselves to decrease consumption (which brings the price down). I'm fully aware of how everything is tied together - and I'm glad you brought it up - but reading these threads it becomes readily apparent that many people think only of themselves. That's not a knock on you Bull so I hope you don't read it that way. Maybe I'm just tired of reading the same old stuff. I hope that at least answered your original question about the $10 billion.

FYI - I don't need to head for the mountains - I live close enough to the boonies as it is and I already have the guns, ammunition, fishing poles, and How-to books.

Troy

[Lowprofile]

So Young, So Angry.....Damm That Rap Music!

[bull]

Since when did the free market become criminal?

Is price gouging legal? It's unethical for sure. I know price fixing is illegal, and so are monopolies. Listen, Vain, I'm more politically conservative than you ever thought of being so don't give me the trite line on free market capitalism. At some point though you have to think about people who live everyday life on a fixed income level and think beyond the bottom line if you have any scruples at all. We are still "one nation under God" aren't we? Even myself, who's voted straight Republican since he was 18 (20 yrs now), can see that. All Exxon cares about is the stockholders, correct? They honestly don't care that Delta and NW Airlines just filed Chapter 11 (http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2005-09-14-delta-bankruptcy_x.htm?csp=24) due to overly high fuel prices, and they certainly don't give an F-bomb that I have to shop at Goodwill and Winco to afford my 25-mile drive to work, take my kids to school, buy a loaf of bread, etc., as long as they maintain those 10-figure profits. I'd say a $7.6 billion profit is way more generous than any company deserves to have on such a necessary commodity.

Posted by: Troy  
I said *I* (me, personally) could live without gas - I didn't say the entire nation could. Did you read the rest of it? I definitely could live on half of the gas I buy now but too many people would rather complain about profits and prices instead of doing anything themselves to decrease consumption (which brings the price down). I'm fully aware of how everything is tied together - and I'm glad you brought it up - but reading these threads it becomes readily apparent that many people think only of themselves. That's not a knock on you Bull so I hope you don't read it that way. Maybe I'm just tired of reading the same old stuff. I hope that at least answered your original question about the $10 billion.

FYI - I don't need to head for the mountains - I live close enough to the boonies as it is and I already have the guns, ammunition, fishing poles, and How-to books.

Troy

Point taken. And yes I did read all of it but I was also referring to people who can do very little to curb their fuel intake which includes most small businesses in this country like farmers, truckers, railroads, etc. And that will effect you if things keep going the way they are. You are lucky if you can work at home but most people are not, and if the oil prices continue to climb everything you touch will cost more and more. So in order to survive as you do now you will have to buy increasingly expensive items and you will be forced to curb more than just your gas expenses. I honestly do not care when companies make profits, it would be foolish to think otherwise, however I do think than when a company has to maintain record profits on a product that keeps this country afloat there is an ethical problem with the leadership of that company. I'm not worried about myself because I can make changes if I need to. I'm worried about this nation as a whole and I'm also worried about all the displaced workers out there who will find it increasingly difficult to find work in a climate where so many businesses are already stretched too thin to hire them. Oh well, nothing I can do about it but 'skip the trip' and stay home I guess.

Oh wait, I can't stay home. I've got to get out there to support those small businesses.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Go study some economics.  By the way, I'm politically libertarian.  If you're conservative, congratulations, but lord knows they're not free market anymore.

Obviously.

[last426]

Go study some economics.   By the way, I'm politically libertarian.   If you're conservative, congratulations, but lord knows they're not free market anymore.  Obviously.

Funny what some schooling will do.  Hey, what school are you going to now (I might be wrong but I thought you were planning on some school)?

[bull]

Funny what some schooling will do.  

Yea, sometimes it turns you into a left wing attorney.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Go study some economics.   By the way, I'm politically libertarian.   If you're conservative, congratulations, but lord knows they're not free market anymore.   Obviously.

Funny what some schooling will do.   Hey, what school are you going to now (I might be wrong but I thought you were planning on some school)?

I'm finishing up at USC (in another economics class, if you can believe it).  Right now I'm applying to law schools.  Not Boalt, sorry.

[bull]

Go study some economics.  

Thanks for the advice, whipper-snapper, but at 38 I really have no desire to step foot on a college campus again or sit around reading internet stories about the virtues of Exxon executives so I can argue economics with a kid who considers waving his johnson at every skirt an act of nobility. And head-knowledge of global economics doesn't really count for jack squat when you've got a wife, two kids and a mortgage. Especially when Exxon is one of your dependents along with thousands of able-bodied welfare recipients. When you enter real life and the water behind your ears dries out a little you may just realize that principles sometimes have to make way for survival. And I don't mean the looting of plasma TVs.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Boy gramps, you really showed me.

Next time, try an actual argument.

[73dodge]

So what I gather from this thread is that if you market a essential commodity like gas you should not be allowed to make a profit from it? If you have something that everyone needs than you should have to forced to give it away for the common good? I hate buying gas at 3.00 a gallon but the fact that it's at 3 a gallon is not a factor of greed it's a factor of supply and demand. There is less of it available and it costs more when it's in abundanant supply it will be cheaper. The fact that exxon makes 10 cents profit from every dollar it makes at the pump does not drive up the cost of gallon. they are making bigger profits because they are selling gas in record numbers. If you made a product and sold it for a dollar and you made 10 cents profit from it, it stands to reason that if you keep selling more and more of it every year your profit would increase from year to year.

And the only way to increase supply is to

1 lessen the demand stop driving or switch to a smaller car
2 import more oil 
3 increase refining capacity because our refineries are running at 110% and you see what happens when you interupt that for a little bit. But Oh wait we can't build new oil refineries because the whining democrats and their left wing handlers like the Enviromental wakkos won't let us build new oil refineries because that might disturb the natural habitat of the native wild sand flea.
4 drill for our own oil instead of importing it. Oh wait can't do that either see point 3


Now the fact that the GOVERNMENT takes 40+ cents from every gallon should make you madder than getting PO at exxon. Why don't we demand that the local and federal government stop taxing every gallon of gas and then you will see how much the price of gas drops per gallon.


It's funny we demand that exxon take a lower profit but we don't demand that the government take a lower "profit" from gas.

So bottom line if we demand that exxon not make a  profit because they sell a needed comodity why don't we demand that they do the same for people who sell and produce:

food
medical care
private schooling
cars (we all need cars to get to work)

As a matter of fact why don't we demand they give that stuff away we all need that stuff and dammit it's our basic human right to have these things

Why that would be called socialism, and we all know that socialism is a great success



I modified my earlier post to clarify my point better

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Woohoo!  Somebody's thinking!

Go 73 Dodge!

[Troy]

Ok, I'm gonna do something I normally don't do but no one else read my links closely...

Exxon made record profits AND cut production. There, that's my good deed for the day. Ok, one more: as much as I hate to say it, the federal government shouldn't cut taxes on gasoline because the large bulk of it is earmarked for highway funds. I don't know what individual states spend it on though. As you may know, the highways aren't the greatest as it is and cutting the money set aside for repairs would surely come back to bite us in the rear. Now, if we could get them to stop paying for walking trails with highway funds I'd be happier. Oil companies are businesses and their sole purpose is to make a profit for themselves and their investors. No one starts a business with the intention of going bankrupt. Also, markets fluctuate so there are times when companies lose money so you have to have some very good quarters to recuperate.

Other Q2 2005 examples that no one is whining about: Citigroup 17.9%, All State 13.1%, Lucent 15.9%, Corning 14.5%, Walt Disney 8.9%, and General Electric 11.2%. Banks and insurance companies continually outperform oil companies yet for some reason they aren't the bad guys (but I bet they directly impact more people than oil companies do). I think it's funny when people buy gas on a high interest credit card and then complain about the price.

Troy

[jmanscharger]

I have no problem with the oil companies making money, however it is windfall profits by monopolies that make me angry and lead to bad ideas like socialism and price controls- let's just take the oil companies from the monoplies and the government can run them(disaster). Our large corporations forget history when markets are free, they correct themselves on supply and demand. But when you have a monopoly on a product everyone wants and you control the supply you can manipulate and take windfall profits. The only reason not to take windfall profits is either care for your customer or fear you will create a backlash that will do damage. The free market would correct itself, but this is not a free market it is manipulated by too many factors. I always hate it when gas stations raise prices- unless the truck is delivering new fuel they didn't pay more for what they already had on hand, someone help me on this.
Money is not the root of evil, the love of money is the root of evil.
Before you want to stick it to the oil companies...If you controlled the supply of classic Chargers would you sell them for a fair profit or hold back to make the most money possible...

[Vainglory, Esq.]

I have no problem with the oil companies making money, however it is windfall profits by monopolies that make me angry and lead to bad ideas like socialism and price controls- let's just take the oil companies from the monoplies and the government can run them(disaster). Our large corporations forget history when markets are free, they correct themselves on supply and demand. But when you have a monopoly on a product everyone wants and you control the supply you can manipulate and take windfall profits. The only reason not to take windfall profits is either care for your customer or fear you will create a backlash that will do damage. The free market would correct itself, but this is not a free market it is manipulated by too many factors. I always hate it when gas stations raise prices- unless the truck is delivering new fuel they didn't pay more for what they already had on hand, someone help me on this.
Money is not the root of evil, the love of money is the root of evil.

After six years of economics, I have no idea what that meant.

[1970440RT]

     JMAN, they must raise the price on existing stock to pay for the price increase on the incoming fuel.  This works the same for other products also, not just fuel.  The bottom line is we all must adjust our budgets to deal with the prices because they are here to stay.  Even if we build refineries and drill in Anwar and off the left coast, it will still be a long time before the increase in supplies are realized and prices drop.  We should have done something about this ten years ago. 

[inhrmswy]

Im currently reading some old magazines from 1942 through 1947 and the articles really strike me as to how hard things were during times of hardship.   lots of articles about how to do more with less.   how to create something from nothing.    basically saying that everyone needed to tighten their belts and suck it up.   the amazing thing was, that people actually did it.   they abandoned their old consumer based ways and addopted a new way of thinking and living because it was a necessicity.   Same principle could be applied here with the cost of oil.    If you dont like it, change your lifestyle, get a job closer to where you live and ride a bike or walk.   Granted, you might not make as much money, but guess what, you wont be dumping as much money into the gas tank.    If enough people would just say "enough is enough" and change their daily routines, carpool if necessary, live closer in to work and shopping etc, we could effect change.      I know some of the nay-sayers are going to chime in with comments about housing costs close in and other such ideas...the simple answer is that if enough of society will stick to it we can drive down the prices on everything by simply refusing to pay it.   When a housing devloper suddenly cant sell his new homes for 300,000 because literally no one will buy it, what do you think is going to happen?    Is he going to let it sit vancant?   no.   is he going to tear it down?    no.   Is he going to lower the price to one that is acceptable,   eventually, yes, he will.    Same principle goes for plasma screen tv's, new cars, any consumer product.    The old saying "the customer is always right"   is there for a reason.   because its true.   Without the consumer the producers have no room to stand on.   We the consumer have all the power in the world we just have to exert it.    we also have to be unified in what change and policy we want effected.    want to make a point about gas prices dont go to work for a week.   When asked why you didnt go, you simply tell them that you cant afford the gas to get there on the salary they are paying you...this will probably get you fired but a huge percentage of people have been fired and no one can pay other bills.   people are being evected from their homes due to missed mortgage payments.   The government will start to have a serious problem on their hands and they will step in if things were to get to the extreme I just mentioned.   In summary, if corporations can monopolize a market and control prices....so should we be able to.   We just have to be as dedicated to the cause as our competition is.
here ends my rant and its just my $20.00's worth...(inflation is a bitch)
Inhrmswy

[jmanscharger]

Sorry vain , I was ranting a bit.
You know free markets work on supply and demand. BUT If you are able to obtain a monopoly in a market and control the supply you can control the market, control price, and when trouble happens you can make a fortune off that control of supply.

If I have full tanks of $1 gas I can still sell it for $1.10   not lose money.   If I sell it $3 most people don't see that as paying for the next load, that is a windfall profit. The next load pays for itself when sold. Isn't Price gouging charging the maximum people will pay, usually in a time of crisis?

Oil supplies are kept tight to keep the profit margin up, until demand drops or supply increases we will not see a price drop. After labor day demand usually goes down, at lunch I noticed Gas has gone down .40 a gallon here to 2.72.

[Troy]

Sorry vain , I was ranting a bit.
You know free markets work on supply and demand. BUT If you are able to obtain a monopoly in a market and control the supply you can control the market, control price, and when trouble happens you can make a fortune off that control of supply.

If I have full tanks of $1 gas I can still sell it for $1.10  not lose money.  If I sell it $3 most people don't see that as paying for the next load, that is a windfall profit. The next load pays for itself when sold. Isn't Price gouging charging the maximum people will pay, usually in a time of crisis?

Oil supplies are kept tight to keep the profit margin up, until demand drops or supply increases we will not see a price drop. After labor day demand usually goes down, at lunch I noticed Gas has gone down .40 a gallon here to 2.72.

Who has a monopoly??? Last time I checked there were many countries exporting oil - including our own and not all are members of OPEC either. There are many oil exploring/drilling/refining/transporting companies as well. Very simply, we (almost everyone in the world) are consuming more than we can make. That means the supply is limited so the price always goes up. Every single company/nation selling oil or its products has raised prices but that still doesn't make any of them a monopoly. As for the price of gas in the tanks - I really don't have the time or the energy to explain billing and accounting for future purchases but maybe someone else will. I do find it rediculous that gas always goes up on the weekends, holidays, and in the summer but, in some small way, that could be attributed to increased demand. I don't think the demand is always as high as some of the prices though.

Troy

[73dodge]

One thing that drives the prices up for us guys here in Ohio is that they have to change blends of gasoline when winter arrives. Why? You ask. It's because the enviro wacckos in the EPA make the oil refineries blend 40 different formulas of gasoline for different parts of the country. So the oil refineries have to have a special blend of gasoline just for the midwest states. and guess what! it costs more because the oil companies have to stop production of the summer blend and switch over to the winter blends and ship us in Ohio our special version of gasoline. So that drives the price up for us guys here in ohio for several months because of that.

That's what you get when you let the government loose and let them regulate everything. That was a CLINTON era rule thank you very much.

[Orange_Crush]

One thing that drives the prices up for us guys here in Ohio is that they have to change blends of gasoline when winter arrives. Why? You ask. It's because the enviro wacckos in the EPA make the oil refineries blend 40 different formulas of gasoline for different parts of the country. So the oil refineries have to have a special blend of gasoline just for the midwest states. and guess what! it costs more because the oil companies have to stop production of the summer blend and switch over to the winter blends and ship us in Ohio our special version of gasoline. So that drives the price up for us guys here in ohio for several months because of that.

That's what you get when you let the government loose and let them regulate everything. That was a CLINTON era rule thank you very much.

We're not talking about costs...we're talking about profits. 

You may not like the enviro-wackos...you may even hate them...but they're here to stay.  They performa a necessary function in keeping us from completely raping the planet.  You need extremists on both sides in order to keep a balkance in the center.

NOW...as far as profits are concerned.  Like it or hate it, there are still several different massive conglomerates competing in the oil industry.  As long as there is competition, there is a free market.

The broblem has several different aspects.

1.  Gas is gas no matter where you buy it. 

2.  We need gas.

3.  Companies that sell gas know this so its easy to keep your prices high because, high or low, you're still gonna have to buy gas.

The free market lends itself to abuses in this type of situation.

What can we do about it?

Well, you can walk bike,or take public transportation as much as possible.  Hell, for that matter, buy a scooter or moped.  Keep your tires properly inflated, buy natural fibre clothing instead of synthetics and do this with your furnishings as well.  If we all do a little bit, it adds up to a whole hell of a lot.  A small change in lifestyle will pay off big dividends in you pocket.

[jmanscharger]

Sorry Troy If production is limited and prices fixed for maximum profit I call it a monopoly, conspiracy sounds worse, maybe price fixing is the word? OPEC sets the price per barrel and other international and our domestic oil follows the same price fixing. Free market concepts would drive the prices down, opec and our own domestic companies respond by limiting production ramping prices up. Our only chance for lower prices is dramatically lower demand, but a production cut would follow, always keeping prices high. Just a few years ago some opec members refused to follow production cuts and we had cheap oil. Probably not going to happen with worldwide demand for oil going up.

[Troy]

I suppose you have evidence of this conspiracy? OPEC only controls 42% of the world's oil supply and I know of more instances where their lead has not been followed than when it has. They are no longer as powerful as they once were but it is true that they broke their own production/price rules recently. They actually decided to let the market set the price instead of themselves (look it up). It's a moot point any way because it doesn't matter if they pumped out every drop of oil possible since we don't have enough refineries to do anything with it (kinda like opening the Stategic Oil Reserves). It costs money to store this stuff once you pump it out so keeping tight control on the supply chain is important to profits as well. That means keeping the flow moving at all times without having product sitting on the shelves (tanks) yet also making sure there's enough to satisfy demand.

I'll say it again, there is no guarantee or right to cheap gasoline/oil. Just because we've enjoyed it for so long doesn't mean it has to stay that way and the fact that we abuse it so badly is one of the reasons we're in this mess now. Blame it on whatever makes you feel good.

Troy

[NHCharger]

so I can argue economics with a kid who considers waving his johnson at every skirt an act of nobility.

   

LMFAO. Now that's funny.

[Rocky]

Go study some economics.  
Obviously.

Go take a business ethics class.

[bull]

I have no problem with the oil companies making money, however it is windfall profits by monopolies that make me angry and lead to bad ideas like socialism and price controls- let's just take the oil companies from the monoplies and the government can run them(disaster). Our large corporations forget history when markets are free, they correct themselves on supply and demand. But when you have a monopoly on a product everyone wants and you control the supply you can manipulate and take windfall profits. The only reason not to take windfall profits is either care for your customer or fear you will create a backlash that will do damage. The free market would correct itself, but this is not a free market it is manipulated by too many factors. I always hate it when gas stations raise prices- unless the truck is delivering new fuel they didn't pay more for what they already had on hand, someone help me on this.
Money is not the root of evil, the love of money is the root of evil.

After six years of economics, I have no idea what that meant.

Six years? As thick as your melon is you must be about a sophomore by now.