I should not have posted that link. I should not have said anything about

[pettyfan43]

That car. Period.


I DO  apologize. I never meant for this to become a problem. I can't say much else. I meant what I said and it was not meant to stir up crap.

Sometimes I make mistakes just like everybody else. I'm human. Maybe it was poor judgement.

I won't bring this up again.

[69bronzeT5]

JimShine would defintley be the person to ask about this subject

[Bandit72]

Check this out, and NO it AIN'T about John Schneider's General Lee.

http://www.cglfc.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=13567

MAN SOMEBODY has some explaining to do. It is AMAZING what some will call a "restored" car. I guess replacing everything but a busted windshield and VIN tag is now the new standard!

you know i always thought something fishy was going on with that car....i would like to see what jimshine has to say (i'm not gonna hold it against anybody, too many good people to go pickin' fights over a "bright orange clunker car" lol)

[blackcharger]

sounds like Travis Bell should be a front man for Halpag

[Charger1973]

Thats an interesting read for sure...

It is sad to hear they butchered Lee 1 like that though, after it made it all these years... 

[Charger_Fan]

Man, what a soap opera!   



*EDIT* On a side note, I think it's really cool that James Best (Rosco) is a member & posts on the CGLFC site.

[JimShine]

The pictures were taken during the resto phase and are now claimed to be later. That rear piece of a car outside with a tarp is a remnant of the lowrider car we cut up for repair pieces. We also have the cowl laying around here somewhere as well.

[69bronzeT5]

Im gonna stay outta this

[JimShine]

He is listening to Kraig. I don't fault him.

FWIW, here is a site that shows what kind of person making these claims really is:

http://kraigcummins.com/

[pettyfan43]

All I will say about this, is that there are an AWFUL lot of people who really and passionately don't like one guy, and the common thread is they have all been screwed by the same guy.

Where there is smoke there is fire.

Besides, The VOLO museum are the same people who try to sell their cars for outrageous money and have been caught more than once making false claims about some of their cars and were caught red handed trying to pass off a General Lee as one of the 17 sold by Warner Brothers.

Something is screwy somewhere, and I have a hard time believing ALL these people are making up stories about one guy and what happened with that car when it was originally bought is pretty sorry in its own right.

[JimShine]

The stories go way farther back than Lee1 and the stories go back on Kraig as well (even with members here), but that is forgiven and forgotten when he dishes dirt on Travis Bell. I can point out several members in that very thread that have dirty laundry, but what good does it do to post it? Lets not forget what that board was founded on, disgruntled NGLFC members (whom Kraig often made fun of, until he needed them to serve a purpose) that started their own board. Its the same group of people starting the same crap like clockwork.

The problem I have here is this deal with Lee1 involves me personally. Kraig threatened to spread the BS if Travis didn't accomodate his demands. Now he is out to spread crap about Lee1. All I can do is state the facts. Take it or leave it.

[Mike DC]

 
I'm just trying not to touch this one.

 

[pettyfan43]

I want to be clear about why I posted this here.

The subject of the restoration has been DEEP in speculation about what was replaced and what was NOT.

At what point DOES a car become a rebody? If the only pieces left are the cowl, a busted windshield and dash frame, then you are at that point or past it.

To call this car "General Lee #1" is being less than honest at best and guilty of fraud in most any state in the country.

Where do you draw the line? What you have with this car if these reports are right, is selected parts of General Lee #1 being carried around by another car.

With people like hlpag, dishonesty is running rampant in this hobby, it's like a disease. It's gotten to the point where some people don't know the difference between the truth and lies made up to make a buck.

I saw this story on the Confederate General Lee board and thought it might make for good conversation.  I in NO way meant any harm to Jim Shine or anybody else.

An AWFUL lot of people saw that thing in various states of disassembly and reassembly and ALL of them agree that they used selected pieces to recreate this car.

There are various parts of this car scattered all over the country. Some pieces even in OTHER countries.

Sooner or later the truth IS gonna come out about this car, and  a LOT of people are really interested in what stories are told about this.

I TRULY dislike con men and liars to permeate this hobby. They are out to make a buck and don't care how they do it. It has only gotten worse as these cars become more and more valuable.
I AM NOT calling names or inferring ANYBODY is a con man but the truth about this car will come out and I for one am waiting to see what happens.

[Ghoste]

I have to admit you bring up an interesting and timely point.  When someone is willing to pay nearly 10 million dollars for John Schneiders General, the "hobby" must be subject to tighter scrutinizing.  Was John's car even used in the series?

[moparguy01]

I have a feeling that the member "StuntMan" over there is full of sh*t

i have the feeling bronzet5 over here is full of sh*t. How do you figure that he's full of it? He pointed out something that others seem to prove there as well.

[69bronzeT5]

Its hard to explain but I think he is. And Im not full of sh*t.

[moparguy01]

Its hard to explain but I think he is. And Im not full of sh*t.

I can make a baseless accusation just as good as you can.  I say your full of sh*t. i'm sure a few others would agree with me too.

[Troy]

At what point DOES a car become a rebody? If the only pieces left are the cowl, a busted windshield and dash frame, then you are at that point or past it.

Usually, it becomes a rebody the second you switch the tags and other identifying marks to a better chassis. Parts replacement rarely qualifies as a rebody. Have you seen the jump Lee #1 was used in? I hope so if you watch the show since it's in the opening credits. What do you think it took to make that car road worthy again? Those cars are basically 'Z' shaped after landing. Many people here have replaced roofs, inner fenders, quarters, frame rails, sail panels, radiator supports, tail panels, wheel houses, and floor pans. Are their cars not the same ones they purchased?

To call this car "General Lee #1" is being less than honest at best and guilty of fraud in most any state in the country.

In your opinion? My guess is that the courts need to be involved before you can prove that last part.

With people like hlpag, dishonesty is running rampant in this hobby, it's like a disease. It's gotten to the point where some people don't know the difference between the truth and lies made up to make a buck.

Yet the site you linked still allowed HLPAG to advertise the last time I checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm a member there as well and I do follow some of this when I have time but the double standard thing kinda sticks out.

An AWFUL lot of people saw that thing in various states of disassembly and reassembly and ALL of them agree that they used selected pieces to recreate this car.

All of them? Really? Of course "selected" pieces were used because that car was not rebuildable using all original parts.

Sooner or later the truth IS gonna come out about this car, and  a LOT of people are really interested in what stories are told about this.

Perhaps it's best to wait for the truth then before stirring things up?

I AM NOT calling names or inferring ANYBODY is a con man

Actually, yes you are. By posting what you did you've clearly chosen a "side" and made your opinion known. It's also painfully obvious from the thread that you are pushing this agenda as much as or more than anyone else (citing your unidentified source yet failing to show any proof).

I'm not claiming to know anything but I do know that most of the people posting also know nothing - yet it doesn't stop them from airing opinions based on the information they are fed. Honestly, it's exactly this sort of infighting that stifles the hobby (Dukes or cars in general). For that matter, what does Travis' personal life have to do with anything and why do more people seem as concerned about his wife/ex than Lee #1? They are separate subjects and frankly none of anyone's business. I do not plan to allow this bickering and hurling of accusations or the airing of personal differences to spill over to this site . I had enough the last time Kraig tried to use this site as his own personal pulpit and then bailed when he got his hand slapped. I am not willing to be the referee. Sorry if that offends anyone but I really don't do this to babysit grown-ups. Besides, I already have to deal with the wing car guys and I've reached my quota.

Feel free to post whatever verifiable developments that may spring up but feeding the rumor mill and pitting "sides" against each other is not wise.

Troy

[Troy]

Its hard to explain but I think he is. And Im not full of sh*t.

That's truly brilliant... and the same logic is applied by people much older than you so you must be learning something. However, you'll find that if you pull that stunt in real life you may end up with a black eye. Just my helpful hint of the day...

Troy

[pettyfan43]

I do NOT have an agenda, This was never meant to start any problems.  It was meant more as conversation and nothing else.

I guess I should have known better than to post anything like this that could be considered controversial. Readiing your response made me realize that I probably made a poor decision in posting that.

Now for something less controversial, wanna talk politics?!?!?!?!?


Sorry.

[70charger_boy]

pettyfan, I don'tthink you should apologize about the thread.  I remember getting into some trouble a few months back about this car.  Everyone went off on me about the restoration of Lee number 1.  I said there was no way they did it and everyone said it was done.  I just had to keep my mouth shut.  I'm more than willing to be schooled on something.

[pettyfan43]

Regardless. I can see where it seems that I was trying to be a troublemaker, which I AM NOT, I want to have a good reputation here and on other boards. I don't wanna be labeled as a jerk. 

I can see where it looked like I was trying to be one.

It was meant as a conversation starter, no more and no less, I gave an opinion before I really thought about it. I stand by how I feel about this hobby and certain people in it. I stand behind what I said about this particular car.

BUT, I NEVER MEANT to start trouble, I am not a trouble maker and do not want that reputation. Sometimes I say too much when I feel strongly about something, don't believe me, just look at some of the political threads, I think I caused two of em to be locked! 

Thanks 70Chargerboy!

[70charger_boy]

   pettyfan,  I'm very opiniated from time to time and I've been labeled as a jerk. That is something I have to live with I guess.  So congrats to you for taking the high road

[pettyfan43]

Troy, I didn't know you had trouble with Kraig in the past, and I did not realize that this was a big problem.  I REALLY wasn't trying to start problems.


I do apologize about that and I can see where you are coming from. I do NOT want that kind of reputation.

[justin1987]

Yet the site you linked still allowed HLPAG to advertise the last time I checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm a member there as well and I do follow some of this when I have time but the double standard thing kinda sticks out.

Can you please tell me where they advertised HLPAG? I've been a member at the CGLFC for years and have never seen it. Neither has the oldest members over there? Thanks.

[kikgas01]

If they do it`s as a JOKE with a big BONDO truck with HLBAG on the doors or a can of BONDO with something about the SCREAMIN father and son cars THATS ALL. Infact they have been BANNED from the site. Troy I think you made a mistake about that. Not trying to start anything so don`t get upset as I know a person has to watch EVERYTHING you say online because there is ALWAYS someone who takes something the wrong way.As far as LEE 1 goes (in my opinion ONLY and it means NOTHING) I`m not saying a word because someone will just take it wrong or I don`t wan`t to get in trouble like a little kid for asking questions or even discussing it..........

[MoparManJim]

Yet the site you linked still allowed HLPAG to advertise the last time I checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm a member there as well and I do follow some of this when I have time but the double standard thing kinda sticks out.

Can you please tell me where they advertised HLPAG? I've been a member at the CGLFC for years and have never seen it. Neither has the oldest members over there? Thanks.

 

well Troy, I mostly don't do this man, but I'm calling you out on this one, please show us CGLFC members the very thread that you are speaking about of the HLPAG thread that we was supose to alowed to post over there? Those people really aren't even welcome over there. The mods over there been trying to take care of those posting that they put up.

Also when is it that when someone speaks about Lee1 shertin people like to jump down other necks? is it because the truth hurts them about what really went on in the garage with Lee1? 

At first when the CGLFC started it was more like a borther to the NAGLFC site. Well after it started to get where it was only one man out to make money off the hobby that is when some of the members there left and went over to the other club and became members. Me I didn't leave but I am a member of both sites though. I call it as I see it really. I don't like to take sides but when it came down to when they work on Lee1 I was alittle like how in the heck would they pull it off you can kinda say. Well after Nov of 06 when Lee1 roll'd around the cornner in GA I seen the clip online as I wasn't at the event. I was like okay they must have did alot of work on the frame getting back in shape. When they showed the photos of the interior I knew that Lee1 had his passenger side seat missing when he was 1st found back in around 2001 so I knew it was a replacment seat. Well as we all know that when TB 1st found Lee1.. Lee1 was missing his main roll bar houp in the middle as someone had cutting it out of the car long time ago. Well I figure okay they just made a new middle main houp for in Lee1, no big deal really as we knew it was missing in the 1st place. Well we also knew that Lee1 was missing a driver side door also and as we knew Travis had a donor car for parts for "on" Lee1. Well we all thought that Travis probly just took the door and the passenger seat on stuck them in Lee1, and the back half of the donor car was also the back part of lee1 also no big deal really I would say. Because if you have a bad trunk in the car and most of it is still reuseable shape and you was trying to save it as it was the original parts then you would go with the parts car for the replacement parts to replace the bad parts on the other car. We all knew that Lee1 has different rims on and when he was 1st found he had none on, so the rims was also replace with the correct ones. Well we also knew that Lee1 didn't have a grill either when he was 1st found as he was still in the #71 uniform yet as he was just a prop then. Now here is what got alot of people over at the CGLFC board was when we started to see the photos of the roof being sanded down for the decal locations that was under the green paint. Well to us it was okay as now we might have the locations of the decals off of Lee1 which alot of us was always wondering about anyways. Well when we seen the photos of the skins cut off of Lee1 in the shop we just figured they was reither pouinding the old ones back out and removing what was bad an was going to replace the bad parts of them. Well after aklot of people that was down at the event seen Lee1 in person and started to ask questions yet some of the questions didn't get answered though. We they came on the board an started to ask around and Jim Shine step up and started to asnwer some of the questions which was great I would say. Well just before that some one had posted a photo of the roof of Lee1 being "off" the car now here is where people started to ask more questions as the roof look saveable and reuseable also so why would they remove the roof for? we all wondered and we ask Jim Shine which he didn't answer but yet answered each other question that we had ask but that one. Well then another member started to point out afew things and let us know some stuff (this wasn't KC and Stuntman either) but yet another good member that doesn't have no reason to lie to us. He was also as I know of was a member on Team Lee1 (I won't say his name) but he came to us and was also on another board and was talking with other members of that board about Lee1 and how he felt on how they restored Lee1. He gave us members at the CGLFC a very good eye full of points to us of what in my mind I figure "might have went down" in the shop with the team members of Lee1 and what they didn't know either happen when they wasn't there I guess. Well over the CGLFC we started to ask Jim Shine more questions about Lee1 as we was just trying to get asnwers to the questions that we nicely ask him about Lee1. Well as he asnwered the questions it felt like he was trying to keep somthing cover up or not say as when we ask a question on shertin things on Lee1 he would say "I don't want to revil that yet or can't revil that yet" stuff like that which was okay. At the time well as we kept getting new members and reading the thread they then started to ask questions and ask the questions started to come around about the parts that was still on Lee1, he wouldn't asnwer them but yet just like was there but yet was not there, We the members even ask the same questions over at the NAGLFC site and was getting very few answers there as while and yet the two guys was posting on the threads but when we ask the questions it was like we wasn't even there or they couldn't hear us. Yet the members that they knew well they would answered there questions fast but ours nope noda. Now how would you feel if you was asking a question and we asnwereing everyone elses but for the questions that you ask us? you would start to feel like there was somthing they didn't want to say about the car. Well Jim Shine was posting over at the CGLFC board as a regeral poster like some of us over is well he started to answered afew of our questions for us that we ask him. Then when I think it was KC or Stuntman that ask the same one we did about the roof of the car if it "was still on the car?" he didn't answer then we seen a photo of the roof laying on some kind of floor and the car was rebuilt by now we ask if the roof was indeed LOL on the car as if it might have been an old photo (but why would they remove the roof though just to put it back on the car?) well he didn't answer well then we had afew members come on an say that the roof on the Lee1 was not its original roof. Well when we ask Jim Shine he didn't asnwer as all we wanted to know was "was the roof on Lee1 the original roof that he had over the years or had it been replace?" which to me is a simple question as he could answer with a "yes" or a "no" but next we took notice to was he hadn't even posted over at the CGLFC board for like a month now. 

To me it looks like there is somthing fishy about Lee1 going on that they haven't told us. Now we the members of the CGLFC have seen photos of what looks to be like the donor car wearing Lee1's front end only, to me that is not Lee1 but a part of Lee1 now. If the yellow back half of that very photo is indeed not Lee1 but yet the donor car then what is left of Lee1 now? Lee1 is more like history now buting all chop up and being all around the country now as I heard of. 

Tory, I'm not trying to start anything here either but yet just pointing out some of the stuff that us CFGLC members have been looking at for while now about Lee1. But its sure is funny when shertin questions is ask over at the NAGLFC that they distappear after they get posted as its like the question had hit a nerv or somthing. 

Jim Shine, I know me and you don't have nothing agesnt each other man, we have always been friends and stuff, but just tell me though, was the donor whole back half used on Lee1 including the roof? that is the question that it seams that everyone is wondering about. Thats the question that hasn't been answered yet. If you can't answer that question how about this one man. "How many parts of the doner car was used on Lee1?" . Plus is it true that the car Lee1 took most of the hit of the jump back in 1978 on the front end passenger side?

       Jim

[JimShine]

I haven't posted on the CGLFC not because of the questions about the car, it is about the attitude I get. Firstly, nothing I say is good enough.  Even to start when i answered questions, it only satisfied a small number of people. The rest insinuated that I was a liar. Secondly, it irritated me to no end when I was asked to hold off on what pictures I allowed out until all magazines printed their articles (I don't want to hurt their sales) and members acted like they were entitled to various pictures and details about the car. This pushed the wrong buttons with me. When the admins began deleting select posts of mine, I had enough and wrote the board off. I don't miss the drama or perpetual gossip that fills it either.

Even before I became involved with this project I had clashes on that board and would leave in disgust for long periods of time. I always viewed that board to have an unhealthy and unrealistic view of the Dukes of Hazzard, and even of the hobby itself. I was always different, but would try to be an asset to the board with my contributions. In the end it was a waste of time.

The roof skin was removed, not the whole roof, before the sandblasting process. It had to be done. Sandblasting the skin would have made it worse. Again, this is an area where I know with a certain crowd I will never win. Frankly I don't care if I do anymore. The owner is happy, I am happy with the car, every fan that has seen is happy. That is all that matters to me.

[pettyfan43]

Ya know Jim, if the curent owner is happy, then that is all that really matters anyway.

I'm sorry you got drawn into someting that got blown out of proportion and was never meant to be this way to begin with.


Chris

[Troy]

First of all, Patrick from HLPAG was a member and did routinely post for sale ads on the site. I am not mistaken or lying about that. It appears they have been removed or disappeared when the site got reloaded. I did not mean to imply that they were (paid) "advertisers" if that's the way some people took it. That probably was a while back now that I think of it. I met Scott at the Garlits show and I probably haven't been on much since then and probably not much last summer at all. I actually saved some of my threads with Patrick though if you're really interested (yes, when he was still allowed to post on the site). If he's finally been banned then I am wrong and do apologize (but I did say "the last time I checked").

I guess I should have known better than to post anything like this that could be considered controversial. Readiing your response made me realize that I probably made a poor decision in posting that.

Controversial is fine - just be careful who you take advice from.

It was meant as a conversation starter, no more and no less, I gave an opinion before I really thought about it. I stand by how I feel about this hobby and certain people in it. I stand behind what I said about this particular car.

BUT, I NEVER MEANT to start trouble, I am not a trouble maker and do not want that reputation. Sometimes I say too much when I feel strongly about something, don't believe me, just look at some of the political threads, I think I caused two of em to be locked! 

Didn't think you were a troublemaker - just a misguided soul. As far as I can tell, members of the CGLFC hate Travis so much that they are quick to believe anything remotely disparaging about him (true or not - I'm not making that decision). I'd prefer to get all the facts though.

pettyfan, I don'tthink you should apologize about the thread.  I remember getting into some trouble a few months back about this car.  Everyone went off on me about the restoration of Lee number 1.  I said there was no way they did it and everyone said it was done.  I just had to keep my mouth shut.  I'm more than willing to be schooled on something.

For similar reasons too: you had absolutely no proof - only your opinion (and your delivery left a lot to be desired). Opinions stated as fact are a huge pet peeve of mine in case you couldn't guess.

Troy, I didn't know you had trouble with Kraig in the past, and I did not realize that this was a big problem.  I REALLY wasn't trying to start problems.

Not a huge amount of trouble but some disagreements between members that he felt the need to publicize (against my recommendations). Things ended up getting very ugly (as I predicted) and he left. I didn't take sides then either.

Gotta break for the next one...

Troy

[Troy]

MoparManJim: thanks for filling in the details. I think Jim covered it better than what I was going to say so I don't have much of a reply for you. I can understand the excitement, worry, and frustration from the Dukes fans about the car but it really is a lot to put on one guy. How would you react if people flat out called you a liar and then demanded answers? Would you stick around or tell them where to stick it? Again, I don't know the whole story but it really doesn't seem like anyone else does either so lets hold off on the mud-slinging until things are clearer. As I said, I don't want any feuds or disagreements to spill over onto this site. We have many members who read both (all three) sites and they will have already seen/heard this. On the other hand, we have a ton of members here who don't much care for the Dukes of Hazzard and this is not really the best impression of Dukes fans to leave on them.

Quoting myself here:
Feel free to post whatever verifiable developments that may spring up but feeding the rumor mill and pitting "sides" against each other is not wise.

Troy

[Big Lebowski]

Yet the site you linked still allowed HLPAG to advertise the last time I checked. Don't get me wrong, I'm a member there as well and I do follow some of this when I have time but the double standard thing kinda sticks out.

Can you please tell me where they advertised HLPAG? I've been a member at the CGLFC for years and have never seen it. Neither has the oldest members over there? Thanks.

 

well Troy, I mostly don't do this man, but I'm calling you out on this one, please show us CGLFC members the very thread that you are speaking about of the HLPAG thread that we was supose to alowed to post over there? Those people really aren't even welcome over there. The mods over there been trying to take care of those posting that they put up.

Also when is it that when someone speaks about Lee1 shertin people like to jump down other necks? is it because the truth hurts them about what really went on in the garage with Lee1? 

At first when the CGLFC started it was more like a borther to the NAGLFC site. Well after it started to get where it was only one man out to make money off the hobby that is when some of the members there left and went over to the other club and became members. Me I didn't leave but I am a member of both sites though. I call it as I see it really. I don't like to take sides but when it came down to when they work on Lee1 I was alittle like how in the heck would they pull it off you can kinda say. Well after Nov of 06 when Lee1 roll'd around the cornner in GA I seen the clip online as I wasn't at the event. I was like okay they must have did alot of work on the frame getting back in shape. When they showed the photos of the interior I knew that Lee1 had his passenger side seat missing when he was 1st found back in around 2001 so I knew it was a replacment seat. Well as we all know that when TB 1st found Lee1.. Lee1 was missing his main roll bar houp in the middle as someone had cutting it out of the car long time ago. Well I figure okay they just made a new middle main houp for in Lee1, no big deal really as we knew it was missing in the 1st place. Well we also knew that Lee1 was missing a driver side door also and as we knew Travis had a donor car for parts for "on" Lee1. Well we all thought that Travis probly just took the door and the passenger seat on stuck them in Lee1, and the back half of the donor car was also the back part of lee1 also no big deal really I would say. Because if you have a bad trunk in the car and most of it is still reuseable shape and you was trying to save it as it was the original parts then you would go with the parts car for the replacement parts to replace the bad parts on the other car. We all knew that Lee1 has different rims on and when he was 1st found he had none on, so the rims was also replace with the correct ones. Well we also knew that Lee1 didn't have a grill either when he was 1st found as he was still in the #71 uniform yet as he was just a prop then. Now here is what got alot of people over at the CGLFC board was when we started to see the photos of the roof being sanded down for the decal locations that was under the green paint. Well to us it was okay as now we might have the locations of the decals off of Lee1 which alot of us was always wondering about anyways. Well when we seen the photos of the skins cut off of Lee1 in the shop we just figured they was reither pouinding the old ones back out and removing what was bad an was going to replace the bad parts of them. Well after aklot of people that was down at the event seen Lee1 in person and started to ask questions yet some of the questions didn't get answered though. We they came on the board an started to ask around and Jim Shine step up and started to asnwer some of the questions which was great I would say. Well just before that some one had posted a photo of the roof of Lee1 being "off" the car now here is where people started to ask more questions as the roof look saveable and reuseable also so why would they remove the roof for? we all wondered and we ask Jim Shine which he didn't answer but yet answered each other question that we had ask but that one. Well then another member started to point out afew things and let us know some stuff (this wasn't KC and Stuntman either) but yet another good member that doesn't have no reason to lie to us. He was also as I know of was a member on Team Lee1 (I won't say his name) but he came to us and was also on another board and was talking with other members of that board about Lee1 and how he felt on how they restored Lee1. He gave us members at the CGLFC a very good eye full of points to us of what in my mind I figure "might have went down" in the shop with the team members of Lee1 and what they didn't know either happen when they wasn't there I guess. Well over the CGLFC we started to ask Jim Shine more questions about Lee1 as we was just trying to get asnwers to the questions that we nicely ask him about Lee1. Well as he asnwered the questions it felt like he was trying to keep somthing cover up or not say as when we ask a question on shertin things on Lee1 he would say "I don't want to revil that yet or can't revil that yet" stuff like that which was okay. At the time well as we kept getting new members and reading the thread they then started to ask questions and ask the questions started to come around about the parts that was still on Lee1, he wouldn't asnwer them but yet just like was there but yet was not there, We the members even ask the same questions over at the NAGLFC site and was getting very few answers there as while and yet the two guys was posting on the threads but when we ask the questions it was like we wasn't even there or they couldn't hear us. Yet the members that they knew well they would answered there questions fast but ours nope noda. Now how would you feel if you was asking a question and we asnwereing everyone elses but for the questions that you ask us? you would start to feel like there was somthing they didn't want to say about the car. Well Jim Shine was posting over at the CGLFC board as a regeral poster like some of us over is well he started to answered afew of our questions for us that we ask him. Then when I think it was KC or Stuntman that ask the same one we did about the roof of the car if it "was still on the car?" he didn't answer then we seen a photo of the roof laying on some kind of floor and the car was rebuilt by now we ask if the roof was indeed LOL on the car as if it might have been an old photo (but why would they remove the roof though just to put it back on the car?) well he didn't answer well then we had afew members come on an say that the roof on the Lee1 was not its original roof. Well when we ask Jim Shine he didn't asnwer as all we wanted to know was "was the roof on Lee1 the original roof that he had over the years or had it been replace?" which to me is a simple question as he could answer with a "yes" or a "no" but next we took notice to was he hadn't even posted over at the CGLFC board for like a month now. 

To me it looks like there is somthing fishy about Lee1 going on that they haven't told us. Now we the members of the CGLFC have seen photos of what looks to be like the donor car wearing Lee1's front end only, to me that is not Lee1 but a part of Lee1 now. If the yellow back half of that very photo is indeed not Lee1 but yet the donor car then what is left of Lee1 now? Lee1 is more like history now buting all chop up and being all around the country now as I heard of. 

Tory, I'm not trying to start anything here either but yet just pointing out some of the stuff that us CFGLC members have been looking at for while now about Lee1. But its sure is funny when shertin questions is ask over at the NAGLFC that they distappear after they get posted as its like the question had hit a nerv or somthing. 

Jim Shine, I know me and you don't have nothing agesnt each other man, we have always been friends and stuff, but just tell me though, was the donor whole back half used on Lee1 including the roof? that is the question that it seams that everyone is wondering about. Thats the question that hasn't been answered yet. If you can't answer that question how about this one man. "How many parts of the doner car was used on Lee1?" . Plus is it true that the car Lee1 took most of the hit of the jump back in 1978 on the front end passenger side?

       Jim

  I only have this to say...Paragraphs & spell checks. Um-Kay

[TUFCAT]

That's just WAY to much information for me... I lost interest in the Lee #1 story (...and its related stories) about 1/4 way through the first page For my buck, I liked reading the "safe story" in MCG  . It was much more interesting than all these "versions" of the story.   As far as the rest of this nonsence goes, you can take these posts and $1 dollar and get a double cheesburger at McDonalds. That's about all its worth.    Did I say "who cares"? Here it is   - - - WHO CARES.  Wow.... now I feel much better 

Hey, its a cool car, with a trememdous restoration effort!   

[blackcharger]

as sands thru the hour glass, so are the Days of Our Lives............

[Chris G.]

The General has never really peeked my interest, but that link you posted was pretty interesting to read. Just to help out a rookie here, what's the general (no pun) consensus of the car? Is it really Lee1, or was a dash just swapped over to another car? Also, are Travis and Wayne still friends? And who is this Marvin guy?

ps- I was one of the guys who was hoping it would not get restored.

[pettyfan43]

Chris,
With the way this thread has gone, I would prefer it get left alone. As far as the consensus on the car, I don't think there is one.

Wayne and Travis? I can't speak FOR Wayne (I am assuming you meant Wayne Wooten) but I DO KNOW what Wayne told me PERSONALLY. I am friends with Wayne.  I won't say anything about the conversation we had but I will say that I agree 100% with what Wayne told me. I value Wayne's opinion greatly based on knowing him.

As far as that car goes, it is what it is. There really isn't much left of General Lee #1. It's basically a few parts and pieces of that car being carried around by another car.  It's amazing what some people will call a restored car though.

This is my opinion, no more and no less. They should have left the car alone.

If I don't comment about this thing anymore, it is because it has become such a sore spot.  I'm trying really hard not to get a reputation as a trouble maker here and this thread makes that hard. I'd be happier if the whole thing got deleted.

[MoparManJim]

Chris,
With the way this thread has gone, I would prefer it get left alone. As far as the consensus on the car, I don't think there is one.

Wayne and Travis? I can't speak FOR Wayne (I am assuming you meant Wayne Wooten) but I DO KNOW what Wayne told me PERSONALLY. I am friends with Wayne.  I won't say anything about the conversation we had but I will say that I agree 100% with what Wayne told me. I value Wayne's opinion greatly based on knowing him.

As far as that car goes, it is what it is. There really isn't much left of General Lee #1. It's basically a few parts and pieces of that car being carried around by another car.  It's amazing what some people will call a restored car though.

This is my opinion, no more and no less. They should have left the car alone.

If I don't comment about this thing anymore, it is because it has become such a sore spot.  I'm trying really hard not to get a reputation as a trouble maker here and this thread makes that hard. I'd be happier if the whole thing got deleted.

Pettyfan43, it sounds to me like you don't want to know the truth behind what had happen to Lee1? I hope this threa doesn't get deleted because its good thread. Also the others are finding out some info that was was covered upabout Lee1 and what happen to the poor car. When you ask a question you should stand behind it man, When a person starts a thread they have no idea which way its going to go. I personaly don't care what people around here thinks about me. If you all want to call me a jerk then go ahead.. if you want to think of me as a jerk then go ahead. Some of you all know me from the other board and know that I won't back down to easy when we are trying to find somthing out. You all also know that I don't take sides but I rather call them as I see it. Pettyfan43, I don't know what you ask or said before over here but what ever it was it must have been a good one though about Lee1. Troy, if you would like to know more just PM me bud. 

      Jim

[TimDuke]

Ok here is my take and yes I'm a regular on CGLFC. With a "restoration" of this magnatude of such a high profile car I'm sure every step was well documented by video or still cameras.I would say re-attaching the original roof skin would be a significant step. If it was documented why wouldn't Mr. Shine simply post a picture to prove it was re-attached and end all this speculation and rumors. If it wasn't documented then we'll never know for sure it's just Mr.Shines word vs Mr.Cummings.

[Mike DC]

 
At least half the diehard DOH hobby was hoping it would never get restored either. 
As I frequently point out in these threads, the DOH/GL hobby is not a unanimous set of opinions by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I think the restoration/recreation of LEE#1 remains an amazing effort and the results are gorgeous & accurate, and I still would never have voted to do it.

 

[pettyfan43]

Jim, I'd like to know the real story behind the car, but to be blunt about it, I just don't have the energy or the want to, to try and figure out who is telling the truth and who is feeding a bunch of nonsense.

I have several things going on in my life that to be honest are more important than what happened to this car. All anybody has to do is look closely at the pictures of the car and the stuff that was done, and it is painfully obvious what was done with the car.

The guy that actually owns the car is apparently happy with the car, that is all that truly matters anyway. It is his car and he has to be content. Apparently he is.

AS far as what other people think, it doesn't really matter to me.  BUT I have to be happy with myself.

The car is what it is. Either there will be a big blow up over it or there won't but to be honest, I'm pretty much done with it.

I don't own the car and odds are I never will.

Why beat a subject like this into the ground? Only a select few people know the TRUE and WHOLE story. Odds are the rest of us never will.

To be honest I am just tired of dwelling on one car. One car that in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter that much in my life.

I'm  a Dukes of Hazzard fan, I have been since I was a kid. But too many people try to make it their whole lives. And all the drama over this silly car has left a bad taste in my mouth.  Honestly, I'm about tired of the thing, unless something NEW and PROVABLE comes about.

Chris

[MoparManJim]

I haven't posted on the CGLFC not because of the questions about the car, it is about the attitude I get. Firstly, nothing I say is good enough.  Even to start when i answered questions, it only satisfied a small number of people. The rest insinuated that I was a liar. Secondly, it irritated me to no end when I was asked to hold off on what pictures I allowed out until all magazines printed their articles (I don't want to hurt their sales) and members acted like they were entitled to various pictures and details about the car. This pushed the wrong buttons with me. When the admins began deleting select posts of mine, I had enough and wrote the board off. I don't miss the drama or perpetual gossip that fills it either.

Even before I became involved with this project I had clashes on that board and would leave in disgust for long periods of time. I always viewed that board to have an unhealthy and unrealistic view of the Dukes of Hazzard, and even of the hobby itself. I was always different, but would try to be an asset to the board with my contributions. In the end it was a waste of time.

The roof skin was removed, not the whole roof, before the sandblasting process. It had to be done. Sandblasting the skin would have made it worse. Again, this is an area where I know with a certain crowd I will never win. Frankly I don't care if I do anymore. The owner is happy, I am happy with the car, every fan that has seen is happy. That is all that matters to me.

Jim Shine, you was always welcome over the the CGLFC board. We mist you over there, matter of fact we had afew members asking about where you had went to! You was a good person over there and I know that afew people did indeed jump down your neck when they ask you a question and you was trying to asnwer them. I also did step in afew times to point them out on what you was saying or was trying to say. Yes I also remember afew of them wanted to see photos to make sure you wasn't telling a tall tail about the work on Lee1. I know that you also made a promise (I think) to Travis Bell on not reviling to much until the car was done and was unviled down in GA. Which you "also" stated to me that when the car was reviled that you would indded asnwer afew of my questions that I had ask you before that time. I said okay that I would wait for the car to be unviled (it was around last spring time), well after it was unviled in Nov I waited afew weeks then I ask you the questions that you said you would asnwered "after the car was unviled" and yet you said that you couldn't say. After you said that I thought to myself "what the F!? the car was unviled". Yet I didn't get mad at your anything and didn't say to much to you about it either then I ask you again like a month later and you basicly told me the very same thing man. Well we had afew other members that you had said this to also (which I think they might had maybe gotting alittle steam but who knows though), well I stop by the NAGLFC board to see if you maybe had answred them over there and you didn't so I let it slide. I will say this on here that I'm not going to fight with you just because you are friends with Travis Bell.. I have nothing agesnt him either and I don't want to fight or anything with him also. All I want to know is the truth is all about Lee1 and what is true and what isn't true. I'm not calling you a lier either as I did find some good info from you about chargers of the 2nd Gen and for that I would like to also say "thank you" for the help.

Now sence you asnwered my question that I had been waiting to find out, I have do have acouple more. sence you said they did cut part of the roof off, did they remove it at the factory seams? and did they replace it with the donor car roof?

now here is one that every one been agureing about, did they put the front end of Lee1 on the donor car? (you can PM me with that answer if you like) if you don't want to say then I think I know what happen but I won't say on here either but keep it to my self though.

Your right about one thing Jim, if the owner is happy then that is all that matters then. Btw, did you ever get you General back in shape after the trailer wrack? if you need any parts let me know and I'll see what I can do to help a follow General Lee onwer out. You take it easy. 

      Jim

[JMF]

Everyone knows the Bullitt Charger is THE iconic Charger anyway not Lee #1 : )

[Chris G.]

I think the restoration/recreation of LEE#1 remains an amazing effort and the results are gorgeous & accurate, and I still would never have voted to do it.

If it was a recreation, then what was so amazing about the effort? If the hulk I remember was truly restored, then yes, it was an amazing job.

The guy that actually owns the car is apparently happy with the car, that is all that truly matters anyway. It is his car and he has to be content. Apparently he is.

Yes, but is he happy because he has all the details about the car, or is he happy because of the "version" he was told?

Everyone knows the Bullitt Charger is THE iconic Charger anyway not Lee #1 : )

That's kooky talk my friend. The Bullitt car was cool, but the Dukes car is known by everyone. The F&F car comes in second place anyway. 

[pettyfan43]

I think the restoration/recreation of LEE#1 remains an amazing effort and the results are gorgeous & accurate, and I still would never have voted to do it.

If it was a recreation, then what was so amazing about the effort? If the hulk I remember was truly restored, then yes, it was an amazing job.

The guy that actually owns the car is apparently happy with the car, that is all that truly matters anyway. It is his car and he has to be content. Apparently he is.

Yes, but is he happy because he has all the details about the car, or is he happy because of the "version" he was told?

Everyone knows the Bullitt Charger is THE iconic Charger anyway not Lee #1 : )

That's kooky talk my friend. The Bullitt car was cool, but the Dukes car is known by everyone. The F&F car comes in second place anyway. 

NAH you're both wrong!!!!!!!!! Coolest Charger Ever? In MY OPINION........ Mr Angry! There I said it and I'm proud of it. HEY Look at all the wild stuff Mike has done with Mr Angry, and he works WITHOUT a Stunt Double!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me that is the COOLEST CHARGER I have EVER seen!

Coolest Movie/TV Charger The car from Dirty Mary Crazy Larry! If I EVER get the chance to own another 69 Charger, It I were to EVER clone a TV/Movie car.............. THAT is the CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[70charger_boy]

Everyone knows the Bullitt Charger is THE iconic Charger anyway not Lee #1 : )

If it wasn't for the huge success of bullitt and the charger there would never be a general lee.

[Chris G.]

If it wasn't for the huge success of bullitt and the charger there would never be a general lee.

Where did you dig that up Einstein?

[pettyfan43]

Ya gotta admit, The Bullitt car paved the way for truly cool Chargers as movie/TV cars. You figure Bullitt came out in 69 and that car STOLE the movie from the rustang, regardless of how the chase scene ended.

At 5 years old, Bullitt cemented my love for Dodge Chargers. I got mad when the chase scene ended and got mad every time I saw Steve McQueen on screen after that and wanted the channel changed!

The second half of that double feature (this was in 71 or 72 at a drive in) was Vanishing Point, my favorite movie ever!

Yeah I was done at that point!

[MichaelRW]

Is there a Cliff's notes version of this? 

[70charger_boy]

If it wasn't for the huge success of bullitt and the charger there would never be a general lee.

Where did you dig that up Einstein?

here you go
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22756.0.html

[StuntMan]

Pictures will put all the rumors to rest:

#1 - Roof Cut off


#2 Entire tan donor car attached to dash and front clip. Notice cut points in the a pillar. Sail panel section clean and uncut


The existing flag and text is what defined Lee1 and gave it it's place in history. With signature pieces missing, like Travis arbitrarily taking the shifter out and putting it in his own car, and things like removing permanently the WB rollcage and replacing it with a replica...
(original sitting in Travis' garage - all the while Team Lee1 has defended the fact that Lee1's rollbar was genuine after resto)


...these things destroy why it was amazing to find this car intact in the first place. This is no longer Lee1. Period.

JimShine - Kraig was your friend. We all know the Volo price to Kraig was to include shipping, until Volo reduced what they were paying him. When they stuck him for thousands less he said I'll take it - if you pay shipping. Somehow that little tidbit is conveniently removed from the diatribe against Kraig.

NOW:

Go back and revisit this thread:

http://www.cglfc.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=10731&start=60&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=covington+rollcage

Now this is interesting:

Quote from JimShine, page 5:

"Roll bar- Why does the rear bar join lower than original? Because we wanted to reuse all of the original bars and when the vertical bar was removed, so was pieces of the rear bars. We had to make the decision to either keep the original bars and lower it two inches, or replace with new bars. We opted to keep the original bars. I think it was worth the sacrifice."

Compare this to the pic of the rollcage siting in TB's garage. This is pre-meditated lying, and the purposeful misleading of Marvin Murphy, and anyone interested in buying this car.

This should be headline news AND emailed to MCG.

Jim - you knew that to be true... This is so sad man! For real! Travis is NOT going to have your back when he no longer needs you - JUST like he did it to Kraig - he will do it to you. For Godsakes - look what he did to Jen when she was pregnant. It happened right in front of you...but you know - we will be here for you when it happens. Just like we were there for Kraig.

Still a friend

Richard

[Big Lebowski]

Is there a smoking gun smiley in here This will work.

[JimShine]

Richard, you only know the version Kraig and Justin are giving you. Justin never stepped foot 100 miles of that car during the resto and Kraig rarely was around. But they know it all, right? That picture you have up is the skin only. In the edmunds video (around the 3:15 mark) you will see the car back from the sandblaster, with the roof skin only removed. Take it or leave it.

I am not carrying the drama out on this board (out of respect for Troy). But I do want to make some points:

Pictures. To post pics after all this crap just rewards the lynch mob. Maybe I should just post a picture of the 71 car and say it was taken yesterday. Kraig gets away with it, maybe I can too. Oh wait, I guess then it would just be 'proof' that we faked the resto.

Kraig doesn't care about me. What he is pulling now is proof of that. I told him to his face months ago he is a spoiled brat that is used to getting what he wants. When things don't go his way, he finds ways to retailiate. I gurantee you, give him time, he will come up with a new story about Lee1 everyday until nobody cares to hear about it anymore. Thing is that forum is such a hotbed for gossip, he can keep going for the next several years. They will eat it up.

Kraig is using you like he uses most of his other Dukes buddies. You are the crusader. Good job. I bet he is pleased. Ask around about how he has 'friends' store vehicles for stupid lengths of time with no regard. Travis is not the only guy who has done it. Now he can use Justin for storage. I wonder if Justin will pay for his huge cell phone bills, title fees, registrations, insurance, maintnance, towing cars and trucks around, without refund.

Why would Travis need to back me? Anything I do, I do for me. Any decision I make, is mine. I moved to Indianapolis to be with the car. Being with Lee1 is a very selfish thing. I was paid nothing to come here and work on and stay with the car. I am still paid nothing. I have been given a couple nice gifts, but the car is a passion and a love of mine. This is why I take what Kraig is doing so personally.

In closing:

The car was appraised by an expert. He spent days combing over the car. He was satisfied with the work done and felt "all of the right choices were made". In regards to the shifter knob, I know nothing about that. I do know other owners have claimed pieces of the car as well. I doubt they would return them if deemed reuseable. Should they be brought up too? At the end of the day, I really do not care what the 'fanatics' on the other forums think. After having a thread emailed to me about how funny they thought it would be for WB to come take the car from us, I lost the last ounce of respect I had for them.

[69charger2002]

i don't know much about anything. and jim you always seemed like a cool dude to me. i never thought lee1 should be restored. it did, and it looks great. so be it. i don't really care about the drama of who did what. that's none of my business. i do have one random question though. what made you move from maine to indiana for a car that you didn't buy? unless i'm reading something wrong. what's in it for you to do something like that?
trav

[JimShine]

Lee1 was the main reason. I never could afford to own that car and having full access to it for a while seemed cool.

But that isn't the only reason. Maine was becoming harder and harder for me to live in. The economy sucks and was getting worse. Indy had more to offer and it seemed if in the worst case I didn't like living here anymore, I could move just about anywhere from here and it wouldn't be a big deal. I also really like it here. I feel more at home around here than in Maine (I am not a Maine native and I was reminded that regularly during the 16 years I lived there). So the payoff is a higher quality of life. I know it sounds cheesy, but really, that is a big chunk of the decision.

[69charger2002]

doesn't sound cheesy at all. be lucky you have the freedom to still up and go. i hate louisiana. but i'm pretty much bound here now because of a good job, wife's good job, etc. i was just curious is all. good luck with whatever you end up doing. 

[253862656971]

Ok after reading all this "stuff" I've got a question.  Am I wrong in thinking that most of the problem between the parties involved in this discussion is a FREAKING ROOF and a couple misc pieces?!  That's what makes Lee1 a real Lee is the roof?  Judging from the pics IF its a donor car from the windshield back and Lee1 from the windshield forward (I'm not making a judgement just speculating from pics) the biggest issue is the restoration team allegedly didn't put Lee1's roof on the donor car and tried passing it off as they did replace it?  Cripes!  There's a word coming to my mind that begins with an H and it applies to both sides.

On the other hand, we have a ton of members here who don't much care for the Dukes of Hazzard and this is not really the best impression of Dukes fans to leave on them.



Troy

I'm in this boat.  I think the show is fine and I credit it with my first glimpse at a Charger and my following passion for them BUT after reading this thread (and other stories out there *cough* HLPAG *cough*) I really don't care if I ever hear about or see another General again.  What I am reading and seeing is EXACTLY (IMO) the kind of thing that will kill a hobby.  It seems to me the only thing these people are capable of are bickering amongst themselves and I have absolutley no intention of ever becoming a Dukes fan because of it.  I've actually quit watching DOH on TV because it reminds me of this crap! 

Ok I think I've stepped on enough feathers for this month.

[RT DAVE]

 

All this drama over a ('the") General Lee?     I personally don't think this car is worth the effort, but I don't like General Lee's, real or otherwise.   I'm sure plenty of people like GLs better than my car, so don't start that argument.   

[HAZZARDJOHN]

Am I alone in starting to wish this Car was never found? I wouldn't say crushed, but definatly never found. It has been a Black Cloud around this Hobby and it gets worse everyyear. I have no desire latley to even be associated with this hobby anymore. I also took the money for my charger and bought a souped up impala, because owning a General Lee, has kinda left my desires, at least for the time being. And remember this has been a 20 year obsession for me. I think If I take a break from it I will remember why I enjoyed this hobby, but right now all this bikcering and back biting is annoying. And I am not even going to take sides.

~HJ

[FastbackJon]

I am amazed at how much drama, name calling and bickering there is between all these high profile dukes of hazzard fans. From a website about Kraig Cummings ripping off a museum when selling them a car, to Richard Sephton trying to steal the wheelstander after he lost it in a divorce, to now Travis Bell tearing apart the original General Lee and not restoring it correctly, selling off parts and keeping some for himself, the few bad guys are disgracing the whole DOH hobby.

Sheesh, makes me wish the Dukes of Hazzard car was a Mustang and not our beloved Charger...

[RT DAVE]

Sheesh, makes me wish the Dukes of Hazzard car was a Mustang and not our beloved Charger...

I agree.  I'm sick of people thinking I'm a redneck just because of the association of the charger and the duke boys. 

[Chris G.]

here you go
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22756.0.html

Right back at 'cha.

Not my words...
"In discussions of the proposed series, Philip Mandelker and Paul Picard at Warner Bros. Television agreed that the Dukes should have a fast car, but not for the purpose of running moonshine. The car wouldn't be new either, but something more suited to the characters and their southern lifestyle. As you probably know, the southern states are the hotbed of stock-car racing, and one of the major NASCAR events, the Atlanta 500, is held at the Atlantic International Raceway in Georgia. And so it was decided that the General Lee - the name given the car in Waldron's proposal - was to be a race car pressed reluctantly into street service by the Dukes. But the specific make and model were arrived at only after lengthy deliberations.

As executive producer Paul Picard recalls: "We talked about six or seven different cars, but Gy kept coming back to the Charger. He was the expert on cars, and so we went along." Waldron's suggestion was a logical one, because of the Charger's history of racing successes. In 1969, for example, Dodge Chargers won 22 of the 54 major NASCAR races.

After a brilliant orange was deemed appropriate for the General, the number that graces the car's flanks became the subject of much serious debate. "Gy thought we should have a double number," Picard remembers, "something unusual. And finally he came up with 01." The confederate flag was first considered for the hood, but later moved to the roof."

[pettyfan43]

I am amazed at how much drama, name calling and bickering there is between all these high profile dukes of hazzard fans. From a website about Kraig Cummings ripping off a museum when selling them a car, to Richard Sephton trying to steal the wheelstander after he lost it in a divorce, to now Travis Bell tearing apart the original General Lee and not restoring it correctly, selling off parts and keeping some for himself, the few bad guys are disgracing the whole DOH hobby.

Sheesh, makes me wish the Dukes of Hazzard car was a Mustang and not our beloved Charger...

I have to take issue with the statements about Rich Sephton. The car was stolen in that divorce, the car was RIGHTFULLY his and he was simply trying to recover his property. That car never did and does not to this DAY belong to that guy that has it.

[sharpspike]

this has been a painful read. this is my take on any subject like this.

1) if you buy something you can pretty much do what you want to with it.

2) if you dont like what is being done, buy it yourself and do it your way. ( or be silent)

3) if your going to buy the completed project, do your research, if your happy thats all that matters.

if i bought the car kennedy was assassinated in and wanted to paint it orange and put a rebel flag on it, thats my business. i dont owe anyone the option to do it there way.


at least thats the way i thought it worked in america. we are still in america right. oh yea, that free speech thing. yea i know about that too. but i do think there is also a common sense thing, and going to far thing as well. but i still think  #1 is the most important RIGHT we have.

god bless america.

im offfffffffff the soapbox.

i still like ya jimshine, dont know ya, but i like ya. and i dont care about the roof!

[StuntMan]

this has been a painful read. this is my take on any subject like this.

1) if you buy something you can pretty much do what you want to with it.

2) if you dont like what is being done, buy it yourself and do it your way. ( or be silent)

3) if your going to buy the completed project, do your research, if your happy thats all that matters.

if i bought the car kennedy was assassinated in and wanted to paint it orange and put a rebel flag on it, thats my business. i dont owe anyone the option to do it there way.


at least thats the way i thought it worked in america. we are still in america right. oh yea, that free speech thing. yea i know about that too. but i do think there is also a common sense thing, and going to far thing as well. but i still think  #1 is the most important RIGHT we have.

god bless america.

im offfffffffff the soapbox.

i still like ya jimshine, dont know ya, but i like ya. and i dont care about the roof!

I think what you don't understand is that this is NOT about cutting up the car. This is about the fact that Travis did NOT own the car, but was 'overseeing a resto', and then - during the 'resto' - was cutting off pieces unknown to the actual owner, and selling them for huge sums of money, all the while leading the owner to believe the roof among other things were still on the car. He is a CROOK, in the order or worse than HLPAG.

And Jim, your moniker is "President of Team Lee 1", and on Travis' board you have just said the roof is on the car, now as it sits restored, and have led the owner Mr Marvin Murphy to believe that.

Then WHY is it hanging on the wall in Mr Kennedy's garage in Canada???[/size].

As far as who owes who concerning Kraig - yes, Kraig did run up Travis' phone bill - but only AFTER Travis sold Kraig's private property, namely one Mad Max car, to a collector and pocketed the $, HIMSELF. Travis drue first blood, to quote someone.

Travis has finally did it to himself. These are his final days in this particular hobby. MCG is being contacted.

Rc

[Troy]

Quoting myself for those who didn't bother to read:

I do not plan to allow this bickering and hurling of accusations or the airing of personal differences to spill over to this site.

While I believe that it would be a horrible shame *if* these allegations are true, I have no intention of allowing this pissing match to continue. I have more questions than answers so far. Hopefully the truth you all seek will soon be discovered and when it is I'd love to hear it.

Troy