Becoming Illegal (Actual letter from an Iowa resident and sent to his senator)

[bull]

Congrats.  Welcome to the ranks of the enlightened.

Great. Now Mr. White Bread Yuppie chimes in wtih his feigned, token "enlightenment" statement. Speaking of deadbeats, how much have you contributed to a working society and/or paid in income taxes? 

Relax. I'm kidding.

[chargerboy69]

You also pay for the education, welfare, and disability benefits of Americans who "can't work" because they broke a finger 20 years ago. Let's kick them out too.

That money that goes to Mexico ends up being spent on buying goods - most of which are a product of American manufacturing or distribution.

That is true, I have a POS cousin that is doing that same thing. The lazy bastard is to lazy to work, so he sits on his ass while my taxes support him. The big difference is he is here legally. These people we are talking about are not.

[Ponch ®]

  The big difference is he is here legally. These people we are talking about are not.

Legal status does not change the fact that its wrong. Your entire argument is based on the premise that you don't want to support someone who doesn't contribute anything back in return. What's the difference?

[chargerboy69]

That's easier said than done. First, it's not exactly cheap to obtain a visa or "the paperwork", and if you do somehow manage to scrounge up enough money to do it, you have to wait months (or years) to do it.

I don't care how hard it is, it is the law. My Grandparents came from Germany during WWII, and they had to go through the same damn thing. In my Grandparents case, it was probably worse since they were German, and we were at war with them at the time. Could they make the process easier and quicker? I am sure they could. But for now this is the way it is. And if you want to come into this country, this is the way it needs to be done.

[Ponch ®]

That's easier said than done. First, it's not exactly cheap to obtain a visa or "the paperwork", and if you do somehow manage to scrounge up enough money to do it, you have to wait months (or years) to do it.

I don't care how hard it is, it is the law. My Grandparents came from Germany during WWII, and they had to go through the same damn thing. In my Grandparents case, it was probably worse since they were German, and we were at war with them at the time. Could they make the process easier and quicker? I am sure they could. But for now this is the way it is. And if you want to come into this country, this is the way it needs to be done.

Again, easier said than done. It all changes when your children are hungry and you're desperate to find a way to feed them.

[chargerboy69]

  The big difference is he is here legally. These people we are talking about are not.

Legal status does not change the fact that its wrong. Your entire argument is based on the premise that you don't want to support someone who doesn't contribute anything back in return. What's the difference?

As much as I hate to admit it, (because I loath my cousin) he has a right to these handouts he is getting from the Government. He is a legal US citizen.

Illegals are not US citizens, and do not have the right to receive these benefits the same as everyone else.

[Ponch ®]

  The big difference is he is here legally. These people we are talking about are not.

Legal status does not change the fact that its wrong. Your entire argument is based on the premise that you don't want to support someone who doesn't contribute anything back in return. What's the difference?

As much as I hate to admit it, (because I loath my cousin) he has a right to these handouts he is getting from the Government. He is a legal US citizen.

Illegals are not US citizens, and do not have the right to receive these benefits the same as everyone else.

See, contrary to popular belief, the amount of 'handouts' that illegals get is proportionatelly miniscule in comparison with what legal US Citizens suckle off. Most of them are here to work. And when they do receive these handouts (welfare, medical, etc) the recipients are their children, who for the most part are legal, US born citizens - like your cousin.

[bull]

Well, two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't see anything wrong with helping legal, able-bodied residents out temporarily but to create an establishment of perpetual dependence does no one any long term good. If they are permanently disabled or elderly legal residents that's a different story, partly because they put something into the system and should get something out, even if it's more than they put in. I knew a freak once who basically proposed that all "retards and old people" should be shot once they can no longer contribute so I really don't think my ideals are extreme.

But why does this "temporary" help have to be mandatory through taxation? There are thousands of private organizations out there that offer help such as the Salvation Army. If I weren't taxed so much I would definitely give more to charity and the private charitable organizations do a much better job of handling poverty than the govt IMO.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

  The big difference is he is here legally. These people we are talking about are not.

Legal status does not change the fact that its wrong. Your entire argument is based on the premise that you don't want to support someone who doesn't contribute anything back in return. What's the difference?

As much as I hate to admit it, (because I loath my cousin) he has a right to these handouts he is getting from the Government. He is a legal US citizen.

Illegals are not US citizens, and do not have the right to receive these benefits the same as everyone else.

That's actually not quite accurate.  If there is a statutory right to a handout, it cannot be removed without due process, so yes, your cousin does have a real right under the law.  However, if the same or another statute provides for a handout to an illegal, it is just as legitimate, all things being equal.  After all, if we were to disregard the statutory and constitutional rights of non-citizens, we could also kill them with impunity; and since not even Ponch is shooting them at the border anymore, that's clearly not an acceptable solution...

[NHCharger]

but that's capitalism. Next time YOU want to build a house, I wonder if you would be willing to pay an extra hundred grand or so in labor costs just so you can say you hired good ol' boy American workers who, by the way, will also demand benefits, overtime pay, and paid vacations.

Unless you have built houses for a living I'm not sure your qualified to make that statement. I built houses for 20+ years and good carpenters are some of the most under paid workers in America. $20.00-25.00/hour isn't much money these days. The problem boils down to two different dreams. The average American wants a three bedroom house with a two car garage and a 71 Charger in the garage (OK I made the last one up). The average immigrant construction worker is just happy to be working for half of what the American worker is and lives with four or five other immigrants to make ends meet. I worked with two immigrant painters from Thialand who lived with nine other immigrants in a two bedroom apartment.
I'm currently a job super for a commercial construction company. The language barrier is a constant problem. I have to speak English, French Canadian and Spanish. I have enough trouble with just English. What I have seen is the immigrants who attempt or are learning to speak English do a far superior job than the one who don't.
We have just as many white trash welfare bums abusing the system every way they can. The entire welfare system needs reform, not just the immigrant policies.

[RD]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours.  If the U.S. would just had made them states in 1848, we would never had to worry about this today

[Charger_Fan]

Damned fine plan, let's jut take over Mexico & put the wall around Washington DC to keep the pond scum in!   I've always wanted to live in Cabo anyway.

[Ponch ®]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

[hemihead]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours.  If the U.S. would just had made them states in 1848, we would never had to worry about this today

I think this is the key here.These people go to protest marches carrying the flag of the country they came from saying they want to be U.S. citizens.They want to keep speaking their native language while here but want to be citizens here.Doesn't make sense to me.
I think that if they exerted the same amount of effort in their native country that they use to get here and stay here then their country would be better and they wouldn't need to come here.

[RD]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

so its the american's fault that mexico is the way it is... wow... I never thought of that one.  Damn... we made mexico the shit hole it is today, not them.  Might as well say we are still shipping them blankets laced with smallpox. 

[bull]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

You're kidding, right? That's the lamest bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. Do you really believe what you wrote here?

[Charger_Fan]

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

Silver? Is that you??

[Ponch ®]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

You're kidding, right? That's the lamest bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. Do you really believe what you wrote here?

No, but its just as fantastical as  some of the crap you guys are writing. Had to see if anyone would bite.

[Charger_Fan]

That's better. 

[Vainglory, Esq.]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

You're kidding, right? That's the lamest bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. Do you really believe what you wrote here?

No, but its just as fantastical as  some of the crap you guys are writing. Had to see if anyone would bite.

Hell, I'll bite and more.  Let's just legalize the damn drugs and get it over with, shall we?

[bull]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

You're kidding, right? That's the lamest bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. Do you really believe what you wrote here?

No, but its just as fantastical as  some of the crap you guys are writing. Had to see if anyone would bite.

Fantastical? There's your $2 word of the day.

Seriously now, you really think legitimate complaints about financially supporting illegal immigrants is on the same level as the goofy nonsense you wrote above?

[Ponch ®]

i guess this entire debate can be forgotten if Mexico, and its citizens, would just correct their system instead of leeching off of ours. 

Yes, and Mexico's system would be a lot easier to correct if every American high school and college kid stops buying weed and coke that only makes Mexican drug lords richer and gives them more power to corrupt Mexican authorities.

You're kidding, right? That's the lamest bunch of crap I've heard in a long time. Do you really believe what you wrote here?

No, but its just as fantastical as  some of the crap you guys are writing. Had to see if anyone would bite.

Fantastical? There's your $2 word of the day.

Seriously now, you really think legitimate complaints about financially supporting illegal immigrants is on the same level as the goofy nonsense you wrote above?

You  claim they're legitimate.

[bull]

I claim it's legitimate because it is legitimate. Dude, the philosophical BS doesn't work too well when facts are involved and the fact is that the working people of this country are paying taxes and insurance premiums that support illegal immigrants.

Are you saying that's not true or that it's not a legitimate thing to complain about? If so would you mind if I move in to your house, sleep on your couch, eat your food, use your shower and drive your '06 thingy without paying you? I'll get a job and pay sales tax but you'll never see a dime of it. Then, after a while I'll start bitching about having to sleep on your couch and protest in your front lawn until you give up your bedroom.

[Ponch ®]

Are you saying that's not true or that it's not a legitimate thing to complain about? If so would you mind if I move in to your house, sleep on your couch, eat your food, use your shower and drive your '06 thingy without paying you? I'll get a job and pay sales tax but you'll never see a dime of it. Then, after a while I'll start bitching about having to sleep on your couch and protest in your front lawn until you give up your bedroom.

Here we go with the "move in to your house" analogy. Can y'all find a new one already? It doesnt even work...apples and oranges.

[RallyeMike]

What are the real tax costs, insurance premium increase costs, etc. to support illegals vs. the savings of cheaper goods and services delivered to the average American and overall benefit to the US economy? It's a complicated question that would probably yield some interesting answers. 

As a hard working US citizen (too damn hard!) who works in one of the industries that reportedly employs so many illegals, and working in a low income community for the last 3 years where most illegals live, my observation is that they work their asses off, and in general keep a pretty low profile when it comes to coming in contact with any govt. authority.