Diesel pickup: Ford or Dodge?

[GTX]

Without getting into brand bashing I'd like some feedback and info.


We're considering a used diesel truck in the semi near future which would be used for hauling trailers and boats thus taking that load off of my Navigator but also possibly hauling a 5th wheel.
While I'm obviously a Dodge man I also own Fords but I've heard some not so good things about Dodge trucks namely that while the Cummins engine is great the chassis has many troubles, the trans has troubles and the rear seat area is small and uncomfortable etc.  I personally really don't care for GM so they are pretty much out.
What I'm leaning towards is a Ford F350 Super Duty Crew Cab with the 7.3 Powerstroke but does anyone have anything good,bad or indiffferent to add about the Dodge 3500 series? 

Does anyone have an F350? What's your experience?

[Bandit72]

i personally HATE ford diesels....they are nothing but junk in my book (unless you want to use ALOT of fuel and have very little power)...and i have alot of mechanic friends that aren't dodge guys telling me if i want a diesel to get a dodge because of the cummins 5.9 turbo....

[Bandit4142]

I've run both, and to be honest, I'd go with the Dodge.   I run a lumberyard, and my trucks take a ton of abuse...   My Dodge's have all held up better than my Fords.   The Ford is more fun, if you are simply going to "drive" a diesel, but if you are actually going to pull with it, and work it, I'd go with the Dodge.  FYI, I've been running diesel one-tons at my yard since 1996...   Probably around a dozen of each to over 200,000 miles.

[Mopar440+6]

GTX, I currently own a 94 Ram 2500 Cummins. Its by far the best pulling truck I've ever driven. While the Dodges will have their issues a Ford will give you many more problems. I work at a company that manufactures trailers and I have done some hauling with the company trucks. I usually use the F-350 Powerstroke duallie because the other two trucks are only 3/4 ton trucks. I would put my 3/4 ton Dodge up against that 1 ton any day of the week. The F-350 is constantly in the shop (8 new injectors, a cracked turbo and a blown clutch in the year I've worked there), gets horrible fuel mileage, doesn't have nearly enough power and is simply a pain to drive.

If you're looking into a Dodge diesel check out the forums over at www.dieseltruckresource.com. I've spent alot of time on that site since getting my truck and those guys know their Dodge trucks...

[hemihead]

Dodge or.... what was the other choice again? 

[pettyfan43]

Dodge Cummins Turbo diesel, 100%

[Troy]

If you plan on using it to pull (a lot) then the Dodge. I'll sell you mine.

As far as the Cummins goes - it's the best diesel engine hands down from everything I've read. You're right about the chassis though. It seems nothing else on the Dodge trucks is worthy of the engine. I read a LOT about these trucks (primarily 1998-2002) before I bought mine and the overall perception is the same from just about everyone - after you weed out the brand loyalists of course. To save yourself the most aggravation I'd say stick with a 2500 two wheel drive stick shift and you'll avoid 2/3rds of the problems with the Dodge diesel trucks. The automatic transmission just can't handle the torque from the Cummins and the 4x4 suspension wasn't really designed for the extra weight. If you're buying a used one with more than 125k then thoroughly inspect the lift pump and make sure it has a fuel pressure gauge. If you're looking at one from 1999 or later then be sure to read about the infamous "53" blocks. Check the fuel filler on the tank for leakage as well as the vacuum pump (check for oil leaking down the front left of the engine and don't believe anyone who says a lot of oil comes out of the vent tube).

To be honest, for what I'm using the truck for a newer F250 Super Duty (lower miles) would suit me better than the dually Dodge.

Troy

[bull]

The one good thing about this debate is that the competition among brands has really produced some power and quality across the board over the past few years.

[Orange_Crush]

Allright...I'll give you the lowdown...stick close because it can get confusing.

First, lets talk engines.

Hands down, Cummins makes the best engine of the three.  It is the most economical and longest lasting.  It also has one of the best support networks as you can get it serviced by Dodge or Cummins.  It is a very proven engine as the same basic configuration has been around forever and is used in boats, trucks, generators, yard spotters, etc. etc. etc.  It is a rock solid unit.

The Duramax is, in my opinion, the number two engine of the three.  It is well engineered (by Isuzu who probably has as much diesel engine experience as almost anyone), REASONABLY economical, and very powerful. 

Last is the Powerstroke.  Keep in mind that there are THREE generations of powerstrokes.  The first generation (7.3 liter) is considered by many to be the best of the three.  Its very reliable...but also very thristy.  The second generation (6.0 liter) was a disaster from a reliability standpoint and was plagued with problems.  The Third generation (6.4 liter) is very new so you probably don't have to worry about it.

Now...as far as the chassis are concerned.  All three are decent trucks.  I don't know what year you're looking at but they all have some problems.  Personally, I would not buy an Automatic Dodge cummins truck built before 2005.  The 5 and 6 speeds are fine and will last forever, but the autos were really not striong enough to be backing up that kind of engine.

That being said, the Autos in the Fords and Duramax chevys also had their problems.  The Ford trannies also had some breakage problems and the Allisons did too...and the problem with the allisons is that when they break, they break BIG...VERY expensive to fix.

In 2005, Dodge greatly improved the 4-speed auto in the trucks.  The new auto simply doesn't break.  The thing was redesigned on an eye on basically making every component of the tranny stong enough so that it will stay together no matter what and, by all accounts they've succeeded.  If you buy a Dodge Auto, make sure it is a 2005 or newer.  If you DO get an older one, just make sure you service it religiously and you should be okay.

[GTX]

Great info guys, one question and pardon the ignorance but what are the infamous "53" blocks?
I'll have to read up on them but just brief me.

Ultimately I honestly don't think I care much between Dodge or Ford loyalty wise so it's really a matter of getting the best used truck that I can for the money. If I could afford a new truck things would be different but then I'd rather put that dough into the Charger motor, the new heated marble tile flooring the boss wants in the bathroom etc.

What I want is probably the power of the Cummins but I want some creature comfort for spending time on the road. The air suspension and roominess of the Navigator has really spoiled me and I'm not sure I can find that in a pickup. The Navigator is like driving my barco lounger down the road.
We need 4 doors and the second row big enough that adults can actually sit there for hours without cramping up and hopefully a decently comfortable seat back there as well?
We'd be sticking the elderly folk back there along with the dog 
For those of you with either the Ram 3500 or the F350, how do they ride on extended freeway drives? My old Ramcharger was like riding a slab of concrete down the road but it went anywhere I told it although I need more comfort now.

I also need to make sure or as sure as possible that I wouldn't be breaking down with a bad tranny or something out in the desert halfway to Vegas or something with the Charger or GTX on back.


Ahh...maybe it's just a pipe dream.




....you know, when the new Rams came out I REALLY hated the new front end and fenders and swore I'd never own one but now I don't mind them and kind of like them. That's a whole 'nother thread though that I'm sure has been hashed over and over..

[Bandit72]

i think there are companys making air bag suspension kits for both of these trucks....if your looking for comfort, i can say that the dodge ride isn't TOO bad when they have a load on them....but maybe if you put in adjustable air bags you could tune it for your own preference, i personally don't mind a truck that rides like an old hay wagon...in my eyes a truck isn't supposed to be too "comfy"

[GTX]

i personally don't mind a truck that rides like an old hay wagon...in my eyes a truck isn't supposed to be too "comfy"

I tend to agree but years ago I fell two stories and broke my back in 4 or 5 places as well as my neck.  Yep, a plain miracle that I'm here and also that I'm not a quad and bedridden like Superman was or in a chair.
Later I had a motorcycle wreck and messed up my hip and hurt my back more. Now I have chronic back and hip pain and disk troubles and can't sit for long on hard or bumpy things. That was part of why I got rid of the Ramcharger and got the luxury boat. Damn I miss that truck and the Navigator isn't a real truck but then again I'm not what I used to be either. 

You ought to see me after day of boating 

Nope, if I expect to drive for very long and then get out and walk I need something at least a little comfy. I don't really need air bags but then I really don't need a rock hard ride either. Something in between.

[RECHRGD]

Allright...I'll give you the lowdown...stick close because it can get confusing.

First, lets talk engines.

Hands down, Cummins makes the best engine of the three. It is the most economical and longest lasting. It also has one of the best support networks as you can get it serviced by Dodge or Cummins. It is a very proven engine as the same basic configuration has been around forever and is used in boats, trucks, generators, yard spotters, etc. etc. etc. It is a rock solid unit.

The Duramax is, in my opinion, the number two engine of the three. It is well engineered (by Isuzu who probably has as much diesel engine experience as almost anyone), REASONABLY economical, and very powerful.

Last is the Powerstroke. Keep in mind that there are THREE generations of powerstrokes. The first generation (7.3 liter) is considered by many to be the best of the three. Its very reliable...but also very thristy. The second generation (6.0 liter) was a disaster from a reliability standpoint and was plagued with problems. The Third generation (6.4 liter) is very new so you probably don't have to worry about it.

Now...as far as the chassis are concerned. All three are decent trucks. I don't know what year you're looking at but they all have some problems. Personally, I would not buy an Automatic Dodge cummins truck built before 2005. The 5 and 6 speeds are fine and will last forever, but the autos were really not striong enough to be backing up that kind of engine.

That being said, the Autos in the Fords and Duramax chevys also had their problems. The Ford trannies also had some breakage problems and the Allisons did too...and the problem with the allisons is that when they break, they break BIG...VERY expensive to fix.

In 2005, Dodge greatly improved the 4-speed auto in the trucks. The new auto simply doesn't break. The thing was redesigned on an eye on basically making every component of the tranny stong enough so that it will stay together no matter what and, by all accounts they've succeeded. If you buy a Dodge Auto, make sure it is a 2005 or newer. If you DO get an older one, just make sure you service it religiously and you should be okay.

Orange, I hope your off by a year on the automatic tranny upgrade.  When I bought my 2004 2500 Cummins the new tranny was one of the biggest selling points that the dealer was pushing.  Anyway, I love it.  It pulls the Charger like it's not even there and absolutly no tranny problems.   Bob

[moparguy01]

I put probably 20k miles on 2 different ford trucks when i was working pit crew for a race team while at school in kansas. about 95% of those miles were pulling a 28,40, or 44 foot enclosed trailer. The  first ford was a 99 with the 7.3 diesel. Granted it did have a chip in it, and that made alittle difference. but that thing would get 11mpg wether it was empty, or pulling a fully loaded 44' enclosed. It just didnt matter to that truck, it was 11mpg. After that it was a 2003 with the 6.0 which was also chipped. the 6.0 ran quieter, and alot smoother. But if you ever had to remove that chip be prepared to have a slug of a truck. Its power just didnt hold a candle to the old 7.3's. But the 6.0 went in for service as well.

both trucks were setup the same. 2wd, auto, crew cabs duallys. I liked the auto due to the amount of time we spent rolling into small towns from the highway. since the highways go right through half the towns in kansas, you have to constantly speed up and slow down. in a manual youd have to downshift to speed up half the time.

[Troy]

From personal experience, my truck will beat you to death on all but the best roads. It seems to be better with weight on it though. I would contribute some of that too worn shocks and bushings so maybe mine isn't the best example. The seats certainly don't feel all that comfortable to me. My cousin swears his 2500 4x4 rides better than any of the Fords or Chevys he's been in (and he's a country boy so everyone has a truck). I haven't ridden for any length of time in any of the other big trucks but my 1984 Suburban rides better than all the rest of mine. It may be tough to match the comfort of the Navigator in anything with a high towing capacity.

Troy

[GTX]

It may be tough to match the comfort of the Navigator in anything with a high towing capacity.

Troy

Yep, apples and oranges. I am just sort of hoping that a loaded truck would ride a tad smoother than my Ramcharger did. It was definitely not a highway cruiser. I'd be happy with the ride that I had in my old '76 Ford F150, firm but not harsh- i like a firm feel........on more than my vehicles   

I think I'd plan for a programmable chip or one with multi settings but I'd be hesitant to get too wild.

One more question and pardon the ignorance. I can save some $$$ on a used truck by going 2 wheel drive. Obviously the 4x4 has more merit for traction but does 4x4 lend anything to hauling capacity?

[Headrope]

Great thread.
My family and I have become quad riding freaks. We've done the local places and are ready to start making five-plus hour drives to get to different riding areas. I currently have an almost-like-new '90 Power Ram 2500 with a 5.9 liter (only 146,000 miles on a 17-year-old truck) but my 7-year-old is almost taller than his mom, making my beloved truck too small for all three of us.
All my trucks have been a Dodge ('78, '84, '90) and most my cars have too ('65 and '67 Dart, '66 Charger) but there is no denying the amount of interior room in the back of Fords verses the Dodges. The Dodges are almost a joke with the horseshoe shaped rear bench. Even still - I've yet to see a Ford that gave me a stiffy.
Mechanical stuff and all that is the most important, but if I'm going to spend tens-of-thousands on something I want it to be something I actually like. For example: My neighbor pulls a 30-something foot Raptor toyhauler with his 2002 4x4 Ford diesel duelly. He has taken that thing out almost every weekend regardless of weather for more than a year and has had the hydraulic brake booster go out but that's it.
BUT I think the truck is ugly.
I have a feeling this is going to be one of those grown up decisions for me and I'm going to have to go with a Ford even though I don't like it. Hopefully the details in this thread will help me make the right choice, though.

[moparguy01]

4 wheel drives are nice, but honestly not always needed. I live up in North Dakota, or the southern keys of canada, whichever you feel like calling it. and I wont buy a truck that isnt 4 wheel drive. but in winter up here you NEED it if you pull a trailer. Now if I was living further south, like back in Kansas again, I would definately consider a 2 wd truck. they ride alittle nicer, and honestly unless your pulling a horse trailer in the muddy fields you wont need the 4wd very often at all. just dont haul too much in the 2 months that it snows there.

plus if all your doing is hauling a trailer down the highway, a 4 wheel drive isnt needed.

troy brought up a good point. my friend has a 92 cummins td 1 ton. The thing rides like a damn lumber wagon. I've been dragged down a gravel road on my ass and had a more comfortable ride. that ford truck i mentioned earlier rode like a couch.

[Orange_Crush]

Allright...I'll give you the lowdown...stick close because it can get confusing.

First, lets talk engines.

Hands down, Cummins makes the best engine of the three. It is the most economical and longest lasting. It also has one of the best support networks as you can get it serviced by Dodge or Cummins. It is a very proven engine as the same basic configuration has been around forever and is used in boats, trucks, generators, yard spotters, etc. etc. etc. It is a rock solid unit.

The Duramax is, in my opinion, the number two engine of the three. It is well engineered (by Isuzu who probably has as much diesel engine experience as almost anyone), REASONABLY economical, and very powerful.

Last is the Powerstroke. Keep in mind that there are THREE generations of powerstrokes. The first generation (7.3 liter) is considered by many to be the best of the three. Its very reliable...but also very thristy. The second generation (6.0 liter) was a disaster from a reliability standpoint and was plagued with problems. The Third generation (6.4 liter) is very new so you probably don't have to worry about it.

Now...as far as the chassis are concerned. All three are decent trucks. I don't know what year you're looking at but they all have some problems. Personally, I would not buy an Automatic Dodge cummins truck built before 2005. The 5 and 6 speeds are fine and will last forever, but the autos were really not striong enough to be backing up that kind of engine.

That being said, the Autos in the Fords and Duramax chevys also had their problems. The Ford trannies also had some breakage problems and the Allisons did too...and the problem with the allisons is that when they break, they break BIG...VERY expensive to fix.

In 2005, Dodge greatly improved the 4-speed auto in the trucks. The new auto simply doesn't break. The thing was redesigned on an eye on basically making every component of the tranny stong enough so that it will stay together no matter what and, by all accounts they've succeeded. If you buy a Dodge Auto, make sure it is a 2005 or newer. If you DO get an older one, just make sure you service it religiously and you should be okay.

Orange, I hope your off by a year on the automatic tranny upgrade.  When I bought my 2004 2500 Cummins the new tranny was one of the biggest selling points that the dealer was pushing.  Anyway, I love it.  It pulls the Charger like it's not even there and absolutly no tranny problems.   Bob

Yeah, hit the wrong number.  The upgraded tranny came out in '04, not '05.

A 2500 will ride smoother than a 3500 and a 2wd will ride smoother than a 4wd...at least that's been my experience.

I require a long bed given the fact that I haul a lot of stuff in the bed.  If most of my trucks duties involved pulling trailers, then I would have a SRW 3500 short bed quad cab or Megacab. 

[253862656971]

From personal experience, my truck will beat you to death on all but the best roads. It seems to be better with weight on it though. I would contribute some of that too worn shocks and bushings so maybe mine isn't the best example. The seats certainly don't feel all that comfortable to me. My cousin swears his 2500 4x4 rides better than any of the Fords or Chevys he's been in (and he's a country boy so everyone has a truck). I haven't ridden for any length of time in any of the other big trucks but my 1984 Suburban rides better than all the rest of mine. It may be tough to match the comfort of the Navigator in anything with a high towing capacity.

Troy

How much you want for your dually?  Just curious.

There's a reason for it beating you to death.  To haul the heavy loads the springs are beefed up considerably.  When just running down the road it rides like a buck board but if you throw a 1000 pounds in the back she'll ride decent, not like a cadillac but decent.

To be perfectly honest I don't see much of a difference between the Dodge and Ford.  For the same money I'd go for the dodge though.

[Troy]

The 4x4 actually lessens the towing capacity (as does the automatic). However, you're not likely to have a problem either way. I agree, hauling on the highway you won't need the 4x4 and the 2wd will ride a bit smoother. I would assume that driving in the dirt, mud, or soft grass with a heavy trailer *could* cause problems for a 2wd but probably not likely with the dually. I did leave 6" deep ruts in the yard after washing the truck one day (whoops!) and didn't have to engage all the wheels to get out. Yep, the payload capacity is somewhere near 5,000 pounds so I know the rear springs are going to be stiff. Even with my trailer's tongue weight it will barely squat the rear end of the truck. Maybe I need to start hauling two cars at a time?

Troy

[pettyfan43]

Great thread.
My family and I have become quad riding freaks. We've done the local places and are ready to start making five-plus hour drives to get to different riding areas. I currently have an almost-like-new '90 Power Ram 2500 with a 5.9 liter (only 146,000 miles on a 17-year-old truck) but my 7-year-old is almost taller than his mom, making my beloved truck too small for all three of us.
All my trucks have been a Dodge ('78, '84, '90) and most my cars have too ('65 and '67 Dart, '66 Charger) but there is no denying the amount of interior room in the back of Fords verses the Dodges. The Dodges are almost a joke with the horseshoe shaped rear bench. Even still - I've yet to see a Ford that gave me a stiffy.
Mechanical stuff and all that is the most important, but if I'm going to spend tens-of-thousands on something I want it to be something I actually like. For example: My neighbor pulls a 30-something foot Raptor toyhauler with his 2002 4x4 Ford diesel duelly. He has taken that thing out almost every weekend regardless of weather for more than a year and has had the hydraulic brake booster go out but that's it.
BUT I think the truck is ugly.
I have a feeling this is going to be one of those grown up decisions for me and I'm going to have to go with a Ford even though I don't like it. Hopefully the details in this thread will help me make the right choice, though.

Two words, Dodge MEGACAB. Beats the DAYLIGHTS out of the Phord!

[GTX]

Two words, Dodge MEGACAB. Beats the DAYLIGHTS out of the Phord!

But isn't the megacab new?  I need used, when did they start with the megacab?

[Orange_Crush]

The Megacab is MASSIVE.  Loads of room...limo-like legroom in the back and the back seatsrecline.  I think the Megacabs came out in '06.  Just curious...how much are you looking to spend?

[253862656971]

Actually if you're thinking dually I wouldn't consider anything but a 4x4 (unless I absolutley couldn't find one).  I've discovered with my dually that the back tires are sleds on all roads.  You'd think that with the extra tire they'd get more bite but it doesn't seem to work that way.  The only time they won't spin easily is on dry pavement.  Even when it rains I can run down the highway at 70 and crack the back loose if I work at it a little.  On gravel roads the thing gets squirelly often.  And when taking off loaded from a pasture or something like that I spin for the first few feet.  When it's a wet pasture I have to put it in 4x4 to get going if I have much of a load.