No fender tag.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

A guy here in Australia is selling a Track Pack GTX that I was thinking of buying. I gave the guy a ring to find out the fender tag info and run the numbers. He explained that the dash VIN tag is there but the fender tag was simply lost by the previous owner and build sheet was gone too but all the GTX stuff and the Track Pack options are there. Right about now alarm bells are ringing for me so I ring a fellow in my local area who says that if I go online I may be able to get a new fender tag made up from somewhere.
Any clues as to where I can get a fender tag made up by only supplying the VIN number?

[Harlow]

You need a build sheet to make an "accurate" fender tag, I don't think they can do much with just a vin.

[Drache]

You need a build sheet to make an "accurate" fender tag, I don't think they can do much with just a vin.

Correct since a Vin will only confirm the year, engine size, where hte car was made, etc. The build sheet would show the options which you would normally find on the fender tag.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

OK, so there is no way of going back through the factory records or asking Chrysler Corp. to dig up the records? What would the value of the car be, being that it would only be speculative that it's a Track Pack car? The radiator support panel is the correct type, the diff is correct, the hemi torsion bars are correct and the rear leaf springs are correct most of which is easily changeable. The car was restored 3 years ago to good driver condition now with only minor imperfections to fix, so I'm thinking if the car was in pieces at some stage....

[y3chargerrt]

Asking Chrysler is a total waste of time!

[Ghoste]

For 67 back to ?? they have records but unfortunately for those highly sought after 68-71 cars, Chrysler no longer has them.  I forget if they were tossed out in the late 70's financial crisis or a lost in a fire or just what it was now, but they're gone just the same.
You could try contacting that owner who lost the tag.  He may have found it since then or he could have even just kept it as a memento of a car he never really wanted to sel and has now had a change of heart.

[hemigeno]

If it's a '68-'69-'70 GTX, the only cubic inch engine options were 426 and 440, but most GTX's were obviously 440 cars.  The suspension packages would have all been the same for both engine options, so torsion bars, springs, shocks, etc. would all be identical for every GTX of that vintage.  '68, '69 & '70 4-speed RB engine cars were automatically given the Dana 60 axle.  For '69 and '70, that meant it was either an A33 TrackPak car (3.54) or an A34 SuperTrackPak (4.10) car.  No way to tell which of those it was with absolute certainty without the Fender Tag or Broadcast Sheet.  IIRC the 4.10 Dana wasn't introduced until 1969, so all the 1968 4-speeds had a TrackPak 3.54 Dana 60 and ONLY RB engine 4-speed cars got the Dana that year.

If it's an automatic transmission, the axle options for '69-'70 were the 3.23 (standard) 8-3/4", A36 Performance Axle Package (3.55) 8-3/4", and the A32 Super Performance Axle Package (4.10) Dana 60.  Again, I think the 4.10 Dana was introduced in '69, so a 1968 automatic car would have only had a 3.23 or a 3.55 - and the 3.55 was called the "Performance Axle Package" rather than TrackPak.

Like the later years manual transmission options, it might be really difficult to tell which of the 8-3/4" axles it had without the Fender Tag or Broadcast Sheet since there were two variants of the same axle available.  However, there are a couple of telltale signs that a 69/70 automatic car would have if it had the 4.10 Dana (the 3.54 Dana wasn't offered with an auto transmission).  First, the rear axle bumpers/stops are different for a Dana car.  Second, the rear service brake line hanger position is different, as is the brake hose itself.  Someone who really knows their stuff might have corrected those two points, but that is not usually the case.  Cars with a Dana60 axle are probably more valuable than a similarly-equipped car with a 8-3/4" axle, but not by a great amount.  The profit incentive just wouldn't be there for someone to take the time to "fake" something like that.

Like has been said, you won't get any help for a '68+ through Chrysler for whatever reason.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

Thanks Hemigeno for the info. Additional info I forgot to add; yes it is an auto car with the 3.54 Dana diff, it has the factory magnum 500 mags, tacho dash, air grabber hood, power disc brakes, 26" radiator (no air conditioning), viscous engine fan. I got the VIN today - RS29L9A******. Do you have any photo's showing the differences in the brake line mountings and the bump stop's for the rear axle.

Regards,
Phill.

[hemigeno]

If that is an original auto car (with no evidence of someone modifying the transmission tunnel), then the rear axle has definitely been replaced since a 3.54 axle was not available with an automatic in '69.  Probably a 3.23 or 3.55 axle originally.  If the transmission is numbers-matching, you MIGHT get lucky and have an original speedometer gear which could tell the tale.  If it is a yellow one, it was a 3.23 car - Red would have indicated a 3.55 ratio.

Having a 26" radiator is perhaps a sign that it had a 3.55, since a 3.23/auto non-airconditioned car would have most likely come with a 22" radiator.  There are some disclaimers that go along with that generalization, but it's normally the case.

Another clue - if it has its original engine AND had power steering, a 3.55 car would have a Saginaw pump with a separate power steering fluid cooler (sorta like a small finned external radiator attached to the PS pump).  If it had manual steering, then that's out the window - but any PS car with 3.55 or numerically higher gearing came with an external power steering fluid cooler. 

Don't read too much into the presence of the other options you've listed as far as clues about the original axle.  Road Wheels (aka Magnum 500) were available with any axle combination, as was the tachometer and power disc brakes.  I am not sure, but I think the Rallye gauges came standard on the GTX, and I think the air grabber hood was optional on any GTX as well.

Below is a pic swiped from the YearOne website showing the Dana60 axle bumpers, which mount to the frame rails directly above the axle.  The 8-3/4" bumpers are smaller and sorta triangular shaped.  The second picture is one I took of my Daytona's rear axle with an arrow pointing to the rear axle brake line mounting for a Dana.  It's not a clear shot of the mounting bracket, but you can get the idea.  I don't have a picture of an 8-3/4" setup anywhere though, sorry.

I would double-check that VIN number he gave - there is no such thing as an RS29...

Sounds like it's a nice car, and not having a fender tag does give you a little bit more freedom with modifications you might want to make -- but a lesser overall value.  If you buy it, have some fun with it rather than worrying about the options, etc.  I think the seller is just being a little too loose with his use of the term TrackPak - an automatic car was never given that title.

Geno

[Corellian Corvette]

What information do you need to know in order to have a fender tag reproduced? I have a 68 Charger missing the tag.

I'm not interested in faking anything, I just want to have a correct tag made even though it won't match how the car is now (e.g. it was a green car I'm painting black, I'd keep the fender tag for green)

I know my car based on the VIN was a factory 383 car (I believe the engine in it is orginal)
I know it's a factory AC car (pretty hard to fake that)
It's an auto car with a console (will still be an auto car)
It was originally green with a vinyl top (will now be black)

What else would I need to get a fender tag made? And who makes them?

I'm trying to get my beater car as nice and complete as possible.

Thanks!

[hemigeno]

Check out this thread: 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,26378.0.html


*hint* found this through the handy-dandy search feature...   

[69_500]

Search feature? Isn't that what mods are for? To do the searching for us.

JK

[Corellian Corvette]

I did the search and didn't find that post. Maybe I did it wrong or glanced past it.

[Aussiemadonmopars]

I looked at the Galen Govier website for info on fender tag restoration. Sound's like it's pretty easy, I wonder if he does like a background check of some description? I just have to do a pencil rubbing showing that it was a Hemi convertible car and whammmo.....

http://www.gvgovier.com/fendertag.htm

[FJMG]

I tried that axle bumper ID theory on my car since chrysler specifies three different part #'s. I have a console auto 69 with 3.55 8.75" & the 10" brakes (pwr disk car) and was told that my diff was changed because it had the wrong U-bolts. Was also told that I could verify a dana car by the axle bumper(I have no fender tag). I have the triangular bumper and deduced that it was a non-dana car. However, I recently spoke to some Chrysler auto-wreckers and they said that upon wrecking thousands of cars they found no correlation to the Chrysler specifications and further showed me slant six 4-doors with dana bumpers & dana cars with the triangular bumpers. I have also seen two dana daytonas (one is original owner) and they both had the triangular axle bumpers. I wonder if this is one of those items where the factory installed whatever was on the shelf???

[hemigeno]

I tried that axle bumper ID theory on my car since chrysler specifies three different part #'s. I have a console auto 69 with 3.55 8.75" & the 10" brakes (pwr disk car) and was told that my diff was changed because it had the wrong U-bolts. Was also told that I could verify a dana car by the axle bumper(I have no fender tag). I have the triangular bumper and deduced that it was a non-dana car. However, I recently spoke to some Chrysler auto-wreckers and they said that upon wrecking thousands of cars they found no correlation to the Chrysler specifications and further showed me slant six 4-doors with dana bumpers & dana cars with the triangular bumpers. I have also seen two dana daytonas (one is original owner) and they both had the triangular axle bumpers. I wonder if this is one of those items where the factory installed whatever was on the shelf???

I am sure that there was indeed a whole lot of "install what parts we have" that went on, and I would not doubt that some folks have seen some odd things over the years.  Heck, you can't even say with 100% certainty that the Broadcast Sheet spells out exactly what parts were installed on the car since there are examples (admittedly rare) where unrestored cars have date-correct, original assembly-line parts that were not called out or were incorrect according to the Broadcast Sheet.

The 1969 parts book doesn't really clear things up too much either.  Under "17-19-3 BUMPER, Side Rail Rear Axle" there are only two applicable part numbers for a Charger.  The second part number is listed for "426, 440 Eng.", and says nothing about whether the bumper was for Dana cars or not.

That being said, I still think that the "correct" bumper for a Dana car should be the treasure-chest shape rather than the triangular shape.  There may have been some obscure engineering requirement for that larger bumper to be installed on taxi/police variants, or on all trailer-tow package equipped cars, etc. that we don't know about and isn't referenced in the Parts Book.  I haven't said (and I don't believe anyone else can either) say that every 8-3/4" car came with the triangular bumper, or vice-versa.  However, AFAIK the accepted rule of thumb is that the triangular shaped bumper should be installed on all but the Dana 60 cars.

All of these "rules" were trumped by:
   1.  Parts availability at the time the car was being built at the plant
   2.  The attention span of the assembly line worker (unfortunately this could often be measured in nanoseconds) +

I've always wondered why they even worried about those axle bumpers anyway, since by the time there was that much axle travel you'd have a whole lot more things to worry about than how big of a rubber bumper they installed.

I looked at the Galen Govier website for info on fender tag restoration. Sound's like it's pretty easy, I wonder if he does like a background check of some description? I just have to do a pencil rubbing showing that it was a Hemi convertible car and whammmo.....

http://www.gvgovier.com/fendertag.htm

Might have happened more often than we think.  I've heard that all 50 of the 18 '70HemiCuda Convertibles still exist...   

[road/track]

What information do you need to know in order to have a fender tag reproduced? I have a 68 Charger missing the tag.

I'm not interested in faking anything, I just want to have a correct tag made even though it won't match how the car is now (e.g. it was a green car I'm painting black, I'd keep the fender tag for green)

I know my car based on the VIN was a factory 383 car (I believe the engine in it is orginal)
I know it's a factory AC car (pretty hard to fake that)
It's an auto car with a console (will still be an auto car)
It was originally green with a vinyl top (will now be black)

What else would I need to get a fender tag made? And who makes them?

I'm trying to get my beater car as nice and complete as possible.

Thanks!

http://www.datatags.com/

AG Backeast makes them, I think he makes them for GG as well, they are awesome, I got a new one, but you still need the old fender tag or a buildsheet, you have to prove everything on the tag.