Can this be fixed?

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

Hey guys I'm about to buy my first muscle car and I decided to buy a 1970 Charger, I've wanted this car ever sense I seen it in "The Fast and The Furious. I'm extremely excited and cant wait to start working on it but, I've noticed some parts on the cars rear frame that look like they been rotted out. If any of you repair/replace experts can tell me if this parts can be fixed please let me know I want to make sure the car it worth buying. Any advice would help thank!!!

[mikepmcs]

Welcome   

any pictures of the damaged area.  We like pictures.  A lot depends on what you are paying for this car.  Please provide as much detailed information as possible so we can all help you to make a more informed decision.  Replacing is an alternative but frame rot means serious neglect for the most part, so i'm curious as to what the rest of the car looks like, where it came from, etc.....


and here's a video to keep your spirits up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvQnHkOf3g0


v/r
Mike

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

OK I will post the pictures I have so you can tell me what you think.

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

This are the parts that worry me most

[Charger1973]

That car is going to need a lot of work.  Im not saying its not worth it, but it will be a long process. The inner fenders always seem to have some rust there, because of the battery tray. That frame is scary though.  I personally wouldnt touch that, but theres guys here that have fixed worse im sure. 

[moparguy01]

If you can do the work yourself, that is just a pain in the butt. if not, your talking ALOT of money. Unless that car is something special (hemi, 440 4 speed, 440 6 pack car, something like that) I would find a better starting car

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

more

[Charger1973]

Looks like Charger 500 on the grille 

[moparguy01]

Did they drag that thing up from a swamp?

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

LOL!!!  is it that bad?

[Charger1973]

I have seen alot worse, its just not something I would personally mess with because of the frame rot.  The trunk looks to be intact, thats a good sign. 

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

well the guy I'm buying the car from has the parts to replace the rear frame. He took them of a cougar

[moparguy01]

If he took parts off a Mercury Cougar they will not fit for a Dodge Charger. You need any Dodge or Plymouth "B-body" frame rails. I seriously doubt those will work.


While the trunk floor looks like its 1 peice, I am willing to bet if you hit that with media blasting there would be holes the size of your first.

I'd find a better car.

[73chgrSE]

Depending on what you pay for it, you could profit from selling many other parts off that car. But IMO it's too much work for the money to bring her back from the dead.

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

There asking $4,500 for her. I dont mind putting in all the time to fix her I just need to know if its possible to replace just that pieace or if a whole piace of the frame rail will also need to be replaced.

[GreenMachine]

That looks like a 69 with a 70 front clip. Still has the headlight vacuum reservoir too.

[73chgrSE]

It can be done. Just look at what they do on "overhaulin'" and "musclecar". But thet have a whole team of guys that are all highly skilled and no real buget. Even if you do the work yourself it will be an expensive endeavor. Trust me, we've all spent alot on cars that needed less work. But really $4500 is high, I'ld offer him 2K tops, if not, let it rot!!!

[mikepmcs]

My question is how much is the cost of the car?  It has a lot of great parts, and if you are getting it for a great deal then take all that into consideration.  Those frame rails scare me, but I also don't know your level of expertise.  If you are good at body/metal/etc.... then it might be right up your alley.  If you are in the same boat as a lot of us, then I would be declining.  Like I said if the guy is basically giving you the car for next to no money, then I would jump on it to have some spare parts and then find myself one in better condition as far as structure goes.

v/r
Mike

[mikepmcs]

oops posted too late.  $4500.... got it.  that would be out of my price range personally for a car that needed, IMO, extensive frame repair.

To answer your question, it is possible to replace the frame rails, but how much other of the structure is rotted away would be my concern.  My.02

v/r
Mike

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

It looks like just the rear is rotted out the rest of the frame looks ok. I don't mind paying whats his asking cuz I think if for some reason it becomes to much of a problem I can just sell the parts and maybe recover most of my cost. The parts look like there in good shape so they should sell quickly. Do you think if I can get a hold of a plymouth B body same year I could just swap the pieaces?

[mikepmcs]

OK, sounds like your mind is made up so.... yes, you can get a hold of a good b body and snag the rails off that. Look at the sheetmetal now too....  be prepared to do some heavy patching as well for those front fenders.  not a big a deal as the rails but just something to consider.

I still say $4500 is too high for this car.  Heck I think Travis has a rebuildable one on Eba for $2800 buy it now and it's restorable.  I think it's a 69 though can't remember.

v/r
Mike

[SoCal Zo (.)(.)]

Does anyone have a picture of how this part is suppose to look?

[mikepmcs]

courtesy of hemigeno.

[mikepmcs]

 

[mikepmcs]

Here's Trav's ebay listing. 

Travis Foster on this site.  He goes by the name 69charger2002.  Saw the ad this morning.

and low and behold it's a 70 charger 500.  read the whole ad, if you hit the buy it now he'll throw in a whole bunch more stuff

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-DODGE-CHARGER-500-70-MOPAR-PROJECT-BB-CAR-RARE-NR_W0QQitemZ140103775114QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

v/r
Mike

[HITMAN 149]

WELCOME TO TRAVIS'S CHARGERS R' US!!!!!!!!!!     lol

YEA I KNOW IT SOUNDS DISCOURAGING.... BUT STICK IN THEIR KID!!
i searched day in and day out..... for at least 8-10 months before i found my 68 r/t (ebay). also don't be impatient or impetuous!!! it'll pay off in the end!!!!!!!!!! you should have seen what i saw for close to what i got mine for ( a real R/T)!!!!!!!!!
good luck!!!!!!!!!

[70charger_boy]

Alright, I know most of you ignore me, but listen to this.  Don't buy that car.  It looks like a luedtke auto group piece of junk.  The primer on the car is there for a reason.  They sprayed it to hide all the rust.  I'm not sure of your skills, but that car is going to require alot of work and alot of money.  I have a 70 that I bought thinking that it wouldn't need that much work to getting her on the road and I already spend close to 12 grand on a 318 charger.  I was desperate.  If I were you I would save up, don't be desperate and look at the cars for sale section on this site.  You'll be amazed at the great deals that pop up!!

[terrible one]

If you have already bought the car, I would either re-sell it or part it out. With that much rust, you know there's more hiding. And that frame rail looks terrible. As others have said, it can be fixed, but I think it would be a better idea to start out with a more solid specimen.

[Silver R/T]

Id probably wouldnt tackle it unless someone's paying me big bucks. You definitely looking at major work replacing all the rusted out unibody frame

[Nacho-RT74]

That looks like a 69 with a 70 front clip. Still has the headlight vacuum reservoir too.

definitelly 70... 70 cluster, 70 steering column, 70 seats, 70 tail panel and trim.

back to topic.

Anything is fixable if you have some or ALL these factors: patiente, passion, money, time.

Is your choose, If you don't have another option I would fix. If you have another option, just pass over and wait... or buy for parts to another better project.

I think you can get both 500s ( the one you posted and Travis one ) and get a Nice one between both, and PROBABLY still will be on right numbers, specially if you think you will get spare parts to storage or for sale and get money back.

[konigcharger]

HMMM....
this


or this...


i'll take no 2 please

[Mike DC]

                 
I'm gonna be harsh as hell, but I'm really just trying to help you in the big scheme of things.


The car needs major-league frame & body work.  (And so do MOST Chargers that aren't already restored into $20-30K cars these days.)

Is the car in the pics fixable?  Yes.  Lots of Chargers have been fixed after getting rusted just as badly as the one you're considering.  And lots of their owners either did their own bodywork, or spent a TON more $$$ than the car was worth before it was roadworthy again.  (Sometimes both.) 
-----------------------------------------------

Notice that I said "BEFORE  it was roadworthy" in the sentence above . . . that's a very important detail.  If you have to tear a car down to the frame like that, you'll find yourself doing ALL the major bodywork on it at once, not in pieces over time:

--  So the car needs areas replaced on the subframe rails to make it solid again.  Okay.  That's a manageable issue.

But can you safely & practically weld a solid framerail onto a rusted-out trunkfloor?  No. 
In this case, you basically have to do the trunkfloor at the same time you do the subframe rail. 

But you also won't want to do the trunkfloor separately from the trunkfloor's side extensions.  Both of which are welded to the car's rear wheelhousings . . . Looks like now the job has grown to framerails, trunkfloors, and wheelhousings!  All this just to make the car driveable again!

But, we're still not done yet:
It's impractical to do wheelhousing work when the outer housings have still got the original rusty quarter panels blocking access to them.  (And besides, those rusty trunkfloor extensions were also attached to the quarters anyway) . . .

So now we've decided that it only makes sense to do the quarter skins at the same time too.  And the front edges of the replacement quarter panels attach to the rocker panels, which are likely to have rust issues too . . .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Look, the smartest move by far would be to save up cash and buy a complete & solid car to start with.  (Even if that means you might have to spend $10-15K on the initial purchase.)  It's not easy advice to take, but it's the truth.  You can buy the car above, but you'll still spend at least the same $10-15K before you get to start cruising a 1970 Charger around town.

There's nothing wrong with restoring the car in the pics.  It's conmplete & it's totally fixable.  If it were a $3200 car being sold to a guy who does metalwork for living, it wouldn't even be half bad.  But no matter who gets it, it's not gonna be very safe/practical to drive that car one mile on a public road until it's had many thousands of dollars invested into it.  And time?  Many hundreds of hours of labor if you're a pro and the car doesn't have to be perfect.  If you're an amateur, it'll take several thousand hours.

[mikepmcs]

very well said Mike!!

v/r
Mike

[BlueSS454]

I agree 100% with Mike on this.  That car needs major reconstruction work and needs to be done in one shot.  That car is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as my 69 was, which I just painted after 18 months of major sheetmetal repair & replacing, and bodywork.  From what I saw in the pics, all the sheetmetal that needs to be replaced should be available with exception to the fenders.  On my 69, I pretty much replaced the whole ass end of the car except the frame rails, which I was debating on doing, from the rockers back, is new metal.
If you intend on pursuing this car, my suggestion is to tear it all the way down to a bare shell and put it on a rotisserie, it makes life much easier when doing this type of work.  I have about 500 or so pics of my restoration in various stages of being ripped apart.  Check some of them out below at this link:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v249/BlueSS454/69%20Charger/