'69 build sheet questions

[ds440]

I have a question about this '69 build sheet.  Specifically, the wheels and the horn ring.

The wheels:  I did an extensive search and saw that 'X9' could mean that the wheels were either steelies painted black with a hubcap or "chrome road wheels."  True?  Well, as you can see the next line is *hole* and then the number "1."  From looking at the original it LOOKS like it should read "01" but I can't be sure.  However, in Line 10, it reads "W21" - which according to Chris' '69 registry site is the code for the Magnums.  Am I reading this correctly.  Did this car come with the 14" road wheels?

The horn ring.  Currently the center section of the steering wheel is missing.  Again, if I'm reading this correctly the code on the sheet is "12" on Line 3 and "S79" on Line 10.  Which all I could find was that it was the half ring - I knew that.  My question is, which center section came with the S79?  See the two examples below....

Thanks for any help.

[mikepmcs]

I have the wheel in picture 2 and my build sheet says the same as what you described.  12 in line 3 and S79 in line 10.

Hard to see the 2 in line 3 cause of a little hole but it's a 2.
Here's my build sheet and my interior.
v/r
Mike

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

The line 4 "Wheel" section referers mostly to the spare tire.  All cars that were coded for a full wheel cover or the W21 Road Wheel received a black steel rim for the spare.   The missing code for your sheet next to the X9 black steel spare is "61"  I have found cars with W21 coded as well had this "61" code on line 4

If the car was coded for dog dish caps only, the wheel color in this section would be body color (as seen on this attached sheet....)


Your second question about the steering wheel S79, standard half ring wheel, the first pic with the triangular half padded horn ring is correct for 69.  According to the sheet you posted the pad color would be B7 to match your B7 interior.

The second pic is a 68 only piece....as is the wheel on Mikes car....

[mikepmcs]

So I guess that means I have the wrong steering wheel on mine then.  Dang!

That's ok I need to replace it with that wood grant(i think it's a grant) wheel anyway like the 05 movie.

v/r
Mike

[ds440]

The line 4 "Wheel" section referers mostly to the spare tire. 

Ah HA!  That's the one piece on info I didn't have!  Thanks!   Now it makes sense.

Your second question about the steering wheel S79, standard half ring wheel, the first pic with the triangular half padded horn ring is correct for 69.  According to the sheet you posted the pad color would be B7 to match your B7 interior.

The second pic is a 68 only piece....as is the wheel on Mikes car....

Gotcha.  The wheel looks like it is missing the same center section that Mike has.  But I don't know how the S79 center piece attaches...so I just assumed it was the '68 version.  

As a side note, Mike, (first thanks for the help) but your car looks to be an early 69.  Given that fact, is there any possibility that steering wheel is the original?  You hear about about early cars having previous year parts.  I dunno.  Chris could certainly speak more accurately than I...OBVIOUSLY...lol

[mikepmcs]

That's right DS, August 2nd...... good idea/thinking.   Whatta ya say Chris, is it possible that this is my original wheel?

v/r
Mike

[ds440]

Yeah, I saw that "802" and thought I'd throw that out there.   

Reading a build sheet is like reading algebra in chinese....I'm good with lines 1&2 and then 6 through 11.  It's the "build codes" of lines 3, 4, 5 that I struggle finding information on.  I thought I read somewhere that those #'s are references to part numbers.  There are some similarities between yours, Mike, and the one I have (which is actually my brother's car).  Like the "Steering Col." reads "88_color_11"  -  both are autos on the column (makes sense).  But I wish I could find somewhere that definitively states what each number means.

Does anyone know if Galen's book covers that material?  There are several places online that cover the other codes - I found those.  But if Govier's books cover the other material...I'll just do the obvious, and buy the damn book.

Thanks, again.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

That's right DS, August 2nd...... good idea/thinking.   Whatta ya say Chris, is it possible that this is my original wheel?

v/r
Mike

I doubt it....the 68 wheel itself it different as well....made of a different, tougher plastic that didnt crack as much as the 69 & up wheels.

FWIW I believe there are repro 69 & up plastic wheels avail now,,,

DS---you are correct in your thinking that the "codes" on those lines relate to the last digits of the part #

[mikepmcs]

Thank you Chris and DS for the info.

Like I said, since it's not correct and as you can see my car isn't correct.(although the drivetrain is numbers)

I'll be getting that Grant F/X 737 wheel with the mahogany look from Jegs or something.

Be on the lookout early summer whomever wants a 68 wheel. 

v/r
Mike

[ds440]

I doubt it....the 68 wheel itself it different as well....made of a different, tougher plastic that didnt crack as much as the 69 & up wheels.

FWIW I believe there are repro 69 & up plastic wheels avail now,,,

Very interesting.  Definitely good to know.

DS---you are correct in your thinking that the "codes" on those lines relate to the last digits of the part #

Awesome - another mystery solved.  Can't thank you enough.

[hemigeno]

OK, I'll really muddy up the waters here...

The second box on Line 4 under "Wheel" does not refer to the spare tire from what I have seen.  While it is true that any car that was coded with the Road Wheels did indeed get a black steel rim for a spare tire, that color designator was not intended to be the spare's color that I am aware of.

IMO, the X9 color designates the paint color between the spokes of the chrome road wheels.  Why do I think this?  Well, there are two Daytonas that are coded for the W21 road wheels who have "30" in the first Wheel box, but their body color paint code in that second box.  Both of these cars were coded for 99 (a/k/a 999) Omaha Orange, and they have 99 in that second box.  Weird, but absolutely true since one of the cars had another document specifying that the whole car and the road wheels were to be painted that oddball orange color.  Those cars originally had Road Wheels with orange paint between the spokes!  Both of those cars were ordered from the same Dealership, so someone there had figured out that it was possible to custom-order the Road Wheels this way.  I do not know what color these cars' spare tire was painted, so it is at least possible that this color code was carried over for the spare tire as well - but that box was not primarily intended for the spare tire, it was for the set of four tires.  That logic is also backed up by the steel wheel codes, where that box usually mirrors the body color (although I'm sure that X9 could have been coded, a la the A12 6pack 'Bees and 'Runners).

The steering wheel / horn ring code is a strange one that is not referenced in any parts book that I see.  The part numbers for the steering wheel itself are separate from the horn ring/pad, so if you needed the parts later on you ordered them separately and not together.  We can all see from looking at all these sheets that "12" refers to the partial horn ring, and "15" refers to the woodgrain wheel.  I don't have a broadcast sheet in my files from a car with the S78 full horn ring to see what it's designator is from Line 3 of the Broadcast Sheet, but perhaps Chris has one and can share the info??  One puzzling thing to me, is that for the woodgrain wheels the color code is always "TT", which you would think might have instead been color-coded to the interior color to designate the center horn pad's color.  Not so...

Sometimes those Broadcast Sheets can be absolutely maddening to try and figure out.  That first box under "Wheel" on Line 4 shows "30" on Road Wheel cars, but the part number for the '69 Road Wheels was actually 2944162, so there is no connection between those two numbers.  However, the Wheel Cover code of "61" does reference the trim ring's actual part number of 2944161.  Galen's little white books sometimes do show what those connections are, which happens to be the case with the Road Wheel designator.  Most of the codes are derived from the part numbers, but there are many which refer to some sort of factory "assembly number" and are not referenced in any of the parts books since they were only found in that form at the assembly plant itself.

[y3chargerrt]

My Charger has the S78 full horn ring wheel. Line 3 is coded 13X9.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Geno, I remember now that you said you had two of those weird Road Wheel paint cars listed.   I agree, trying to figure these things out can be maddening!  Truthfully though I've never spent much time trying to figure them out.   Too many variables for my grey matter.  I had read somewhere that line 4 denoted the spare rim color...it does make sense that it wold be the color for all the rims.

[69CoronetRT]

That's right DS, August 2nd...... good idea/thinking.   Whatta ya say Chris, is it possible that this is my original wheel?

v/r
Mike

I doubt it....the 68 wheel itself it different as well....made of a different, tougher plastic that didnt crack as much as the 69 & up wheels.

FWIW I believe there are repro 69 & up plastic wheels avail now,,,

DS---you are correct in your thinking that the "codes" on those lines relate to the last digits of the part #

Chris, weren't some of the numbers assembly numbers and not PNs? (engine, axle, front brakes, CL/BRK...)

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Yes some were related to the tag as well

[ds440]

Geno, I think you just blew my mind.....

That information is invaluable and I appreciate you taking the time to post it.

[69CoronetRT]

OK, I'll really muddy up the waters here...

The second box on Line 4 under "Wheel" does not refer to the spare tire from what I have seen.  While it is true that any car that was coded with the Road Wheels did indeed get a black steel rim for a spare tire, that color designator was not intended to be the spare's color that I am aware of.

IMO, the X9 color designates the paint color between the spokes of the chrome road wheels.  Why do I think this?  Well, there are two Daytonas that are coded for the W21 road wheels who have "30" in the first Wheel box, but their body color paint code in that second box.  Both of these cars were coded for 99 (a/k/a 999) Omaha Orange, and they have 99 in that second box.  Weird, but absolutely true since one of the cars had another document specifying that the whole car and the road wheels were to be painted that oddball orange color.  Those cars originally had Road Wheels with orange paint between the spokes!  Both of those cars were ordered from the same Dealership, so someone there had figured out that it was possible to custom-order the Road Wheels this way.  I do not know what color these cars' spare tire was painted, so it is at least possible that this color code was carried over for the spare tire as well - but that box was not primarily intended for the spare tire, it was for the set of four tires.  That logic is also backed up by the steel wheel codes, where that box usually mirrors the body color (although I'm sure that X9 could have been coded, a la the A12 6pack 'Bees and 'Runners).

The steering wheel / horn ring code is a strange one that is not referenced in any parts book that I see.  The part numbers for the steering wheel itself are separate from the horn ring/pad, so if you needed the parts later on you ordered them separately and not together.  We can all see from looking at all these sheets that "12" refers to the partial horn ring, and "15" refers to the woodgrain wheel.  I don't have a broadcast sheet in my files from a car with the S78 full horn ring to see what it's designator is from Line 3 of the Broadcast Sheet, but perhaps Chris has one and can share the info??  One puzzling thing to me, is that for the woodgrain wheels the color code is always "TT", which you would think might have instead been color-coded to the interior color to designate the center horn pad's color.  Not so...

Sometimes those Broadcast Sheets can be absolutely maddening to try and figure out.  That first box under "Wheel" on Line 4 shows "30" on Road Wheel cars, but the part number for the '69 Road Wheels was actually 2944162, so there is no connection between those two numbers.  However, the Wheel Cover code of "61" does reference the trim ring's actual part number of 2944161.  Galen's little white books sometimes do show what those connections are, which happens to be the case with the Road Wheel designator.  Most of the codes are derived from the part numbers, but there are many which refer to some sort of factory "assembly number" and are not referenced in any of the parts books since they were only found in that form at the assembly plant itself.

Geno.. a couple of thoughts on the wheels...I think it is a little more involved than even what you wrote. There seem to be differences in how the color was coded. I just took a quick look at a couple of RS/WS/XS cars. All of my 69 W21 cars are coded 30 X9 just as you say. What's interesting is that my GTX's with W25 also code X9 but my Chargers and Coronets with W25 code body color. We should see if the assembly plant makes a difference. I'm thinking there are 'standard' and 'overriding' codes that go into the equation too.

RE the 99 paint code wheels...as you know, any deviation from color generally triggers the 99 code regardless of what the color actually is and what is painted so if these wheels were to recieve special handling and painted with the W21 wheel inserts the same as the body color, IMHO it would trigger the 99 code. I don't think the X9 code refers to the black color inside the W21 wheels but that's only my opinion and not based on any facts that I'm aware of.

A12 cars code body color on the wheels not X9. Many of the original WM/RM codes carry over to the A12 BS. Wheel color must be one of them.

It would be easy to figure out steering assembly codes if you could pull together enough BS and cross reference to other items such as column or console shift, automatic or manual, body designation, etc. I'm sorry GG doesn't list them in the books.

Also IMHO...figuring out the codes is one reason to share BS and pool information among reliable, interested parties.

[hemigeno]

Geno.. a couple of thoughts on the wheels...I think it is a little more involved than even what you wrote. There seem to be differences in how the color was coded. I just took a quick look at a couple of RS/WS/XS cars. All of my 69 W21 cars are coded 30 X9 just as you say. What's interesting is that my GTX's with W25 also code X9 but my Chargers and Coronets with W25 code body color. We should see if the assembly plant makes a difference. I'm thinking there are 'standard' and 'overriding' codes that go into the equation too.

Doug - what wheel covers were involved on those cars?  My guess is that if there was a full wheel cover, then X9 would be the order of the day.  If there were dog dish hub caps, then body color.  Just wondering...  I know you're already painfully aware that plant origin makes a BIG difference in how they did some things!

RE the 99 paint code wheels...as you know, any deviation from color generally triggers the 99 code regardless of what the color actually is and what is painted so if these wheels were to recieve special handling and painted with the W21 wheel inserts the same as the body color, IMHO it would trigger the 99 code. I don't think the X9 code refers to the black color inside the W21 wheels but that's only my opinion and not based on any facts that I'm aware of.

There would be a whole lot more weight given to my theory if another car with W21 wheels had, say, B5 in that second box to match its main body color.  It very well could be that the 99 was the default code for anything other than black as you say, but I am still leaning towards an actual color code rather than a "special handling" inference for the 99 on those two cars.  Of course, depending on the timeframe in the 1969 model year, 99 did not automatically mean Omaha Orange.  Those two Daytonas happened to be orange though, which was strange since both V2 Hemi Orange and K2 Vitamin C (GoMango for Dodge) had been introduced by the time those cars were produced in mid/late June.

A12 cars code body color on the wheels not X9. Many of the original WM/RM codes carry over to the A12 BS. Wheel color must be one of them.

I honestly didn't know what the A12 cars had coded for the wheels, that's good to know.  The comment I made was more along the lines of having black wheels on a car despite the body color, which I suppose would have been possible with an X9 designation in the second box under Wheel.  What style of wheels were coded on the A12 cars (usually)?  Steelies?  14 or 15"?  It was sorta useless to have codes on those A12 Broadcast Sheets that were totally ignored...  like a 383hp engine   

It would be easy to figure out steering assembly codes if you could pull together enough BS and cross reference to other items such as column or console shift, automatic or manual, body designation, etc. I'm sorry GG doesn't list them in the books.

Also IMHO...figuring out the codes is one reason to share BS and pool information among reliable, interested parties.

Amen to that!!!

[UFO]

Your right hemigeno,W25 is a h/d stamped wheel.If X9 then a full wheel cover is "supposed" to be in order.Thats what is on my b-sheet.

[69CoronetRT]

Doug - what wheel covers were involved on those cars?  My guess is that if there was a full wheel cover, then X9 would be the order of the day.  If there were dog dish hub caps, then body color.  Just wondering...  I know you're already painfully aware that plant origin makes a BIG difference in how they did some things!

Sorry to have wasted your time on this one...I was thinking W25 was the wheel cover and not the wheel. I checked the real cover codes and dog dish cars are the body color ones and wheel cover ones are the X9 cars...

There would be a whole lot more weight given to my theory if another car with W21 wheels had, say, B5 in that second box to match its main body color.  It very well could be that the 99 was the default code for anything other than black as you say, but I am still leaning towards an actual color code rather than a "special handling" inference for the 99 on those two cars.  Of course, depending on the timeframe in the 1969 model year, 99 did not automatically mean Omaha Orange.  Those two Daytonas happened to be orange though, which was strange since both V2 Hemi Orange and K2 Vitamin C (GoMango for Dodge) had been introduced by the time those cars were produced in mid/late June.

99 would be the code for any paint devation regardless of what the actual color was. So, using your example, if there was a car with inserts painted B5 instead of, it's my understanding it would still code 99 indicating non standard paint. The problem with 99 paint codes is they don't tell you what the color was only that it was 'special order-non standard'. However, I would like to test this belief by seeing another car with special color wheels. Wouldn't that be great to find another W21 car with special color inserts?

What style of wheels were coded on the A12 cars (usually)?  Steelies?  14 or 15"? 

A12's were coded for the same wheels as the Hemi (24) but carry the body color instead of X9. The 383 cars code 16 but I seem to have an early built (904) RR with 00 for the wheel code.

It was sorta useless to have codes on those A12 Broadcast Sheets that were totally ignored...  like a 383hp engine   

...and 4bbl and a couple of other things. It also appears that the real early cars code S13 for the standard RR/SB suspension instead of the S15 "police handling package" suspension, which does show up on later sheets.

[hemigeno]

Sorry to have wasted your time on this one...I was thinking W25 was the wheel cover and not the wheel. I checked the real cover codes and dog dish cars are the body color ones and wheel cover ones are the X9 cars...

No waste of time at all - I'm always interested in digging into these sorts of details, and there's always more to learn.  That was just a guess on my part anyway.

However, I would like to test this belief by seeing another car with special color wheels. Wouldn't that be great to find another W21 car with special color inserts?

Most definitely! 

I could be wrong, but I'll still wager a case of your favorite beverage that the wheel color code would be the actual color of the wheel inserts rather than 99.  Now, all we gotta do is find another "standard color" road wheel car with special color inserts...   

I know Chrysler did use the 99 or 999 codes when something funky went through, like on the axle codes for A12s & SSHemi's, etc.  It could be just as you've theorized, but I'll stick to my theory/guess until we can find something that says one way or another.

A12's were coded for the same wheels as the Hemi (24) but carry the body color instead of X9. The 383 cars code 16 but I seem to have an early built (904) RR with 00 for the wheel code.

16 is for the 14x5.5 steel wheels, correct?  Wonder what was up with that 00 wheel code?  Someone must have fallen asleep at the switch on that one.  So, the line workers were supposed to pick up on the 15" H wheel, but they were not supposed to follow the code for body-color wheels.  I guess it wouldn't be too hard to pick out the A12 cars coming down the line at that stage of production, since they would probably have been missing their hood.

It also appears that the real early cars code S13 for the standard RR/SB suspension instead of the S15 "police handling package" suspension, which does show up on later sheets.

I wonder then... which suspension package did those early cars get? 

[69CoronetRT]

I could be wrong, but I'll still wager a case of your favorite beverage that the wheel color code would be the actual color of the wheel inserts rather than 99.  Now, all we gotta do is find another "standard color" road wheel car with special color inserts...   

Deal...one more thing to add to the list of things to look for

16 is for the 14x5.5 steel wheels, correct?  Wonder what was up with that 00 wheel code?

Yes. I think 00 was just an early code for the 14X5.5

I wonder then... which suspension package did those early cars get?

It was changed in the conversions to the correct S15 components (Torsion bars, rear springs, etc). I think the early S13 code is just another example of the original WM/RM 383 codes that were listed on the sheet but not actually installed on the car.

[taxspeaker]

Ok guys I have read and reread this old thread but am now 100% confused and still trying to figure out what my new purchase originally had, wheel-wise.
Line 4 of the build sheet shows:
Road  color   spare  wheel cover
30       X9                     61

And line 2 tires shows T85

I am trying to fix several minor issues and also get a full set of repro wheels/tires and spare, so in summary any help appreciated! I thought it came with dog dish and redlines, but now I don't know if I should get F70x14's, redlines (and what size), or what.
Thanks
Bob

[69CoronetRT]

Ok guys I have read and reread this old thread but am now 100% confused and still trying to figure out what my new purchase originally had, wheel-wise.
Line 4 of the build sheet shows:
Road  color   spare  wheel cover
30       X9                     61

And line 2 tires shows T85

I am trying to fix several minor issues and also get a full set of repro wheels/tires and spare, so in summary any help appreciated! I thought it came with dog dish and redlines, but now I don't know if I should get F70x14's, redlines (and what size), or what.
Thanks
Bob

Damn! That's on old one.

Look on row 10 under W. Does it say W21?

If yes, then the five spoke chrome road wheel.

"61" = PN 2944161 trim ring.

T85= F70x14 red wall tire.

[hemigeno]

Damn! That's on old one.

Old one indeed...  

There's been lots more documentation unearthed since we were kicking this subject around.  One of the factory documents I found sheds a bit of light on the color code that follows the main Wheel code on Line 4.  "X9" Black was supposed to be coded as the wheel color on all cars that came with a Wheel Cover option (anything other than the standard hub caps with Wheel Cover Build Code 88 or 89 depending on the Chrysler Division) OR when all wheel covers/caps were deleted entirely (which would also then trigger Build Code "98" in the "Wh Cov" box on Line 4).  The same document states that when cars were equipped with "Styled Wheel" option W21 or W23, the "X9" color code in the second block specifically referred to the "Spare Only".  The car's "Lower Body Color" was to be coded in the Wheel box on cars that had hub caps, which matches what we always see on those cars.

I also discovered that the 16 / 24 / 30 designation commonly seen under Wheel on line 4 is referred to only as a "Build Code".  It has no connection to a longer part number or even a Sales Code.  Wheel Covers (or Trim Rings as the case may be) all had an extended Part Number that ended with the Build Code seen on the sheet, as we had been discussing.

The only thing that I haven't really nailed down (and it's such an incredibly small subsection that it's hardly worth fretting about) is the "99" Special Order Paint cars.  The system was supposed to show "99" in the Line 4 Wheel box any time Special Order paint was coded even though the presence of a Road Wheel or other full Wheel Cover option should have normally negated its use in that block.  It's fairly safe to say that this "99" application was intended/predominantly used for fleet vehicles like taxis, police cruisers, and other government/military applications... not the oddball custom-color paint musclecars that give us all heartburn now.  I'm guessing (feel free to disagree!!) the Assembly Plants would have followed the standard procedure of throwing a black spare wheel in a W21 Road Wheel or W23 car rather than pulling the car off the Assembly Line while a single, special-order-color spare wheel was sourced -- as might otherwise be implied.  That particular topic is still a little muddy, but WAY more narrowed than it was before.