You should see this setup! (twin turbo 440)

[wetfeetmi]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Dodge-Dart-Swinger-Twin-Turbo-440_W0QQitemZ140096279733QQcategoryZ6201QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dkn1997]

Very cool, and I hate to be one of those people, and I'm just asking.....but couldn't you get 600hp out of a 440 with good heads/cam without even stroking it?  If you stroked it, I think you could do 600hp very easy without even stepping up to indy heads or anything like that....just asking, it's a very cool car.

Again it's a cool car, and would be an absolute blast to drive, I am sure, but I also gotta ask about the home depot husky fuel cell in the trunk....or maybe it's the nitrous tank? 

I know that when people post about cars, some jerk usually comes on and trashes it, and that's that not what I mean to do, but those two things that can be legitimately questioned about that car. 

I love the hood, look mean!!!

[jasonfromIKILLYA]

hmm, twin turbo and NOS?  I don't think I've ever heard of someone mixing them together before.  He should have just put on a system from Procharger.  It's on my wish list for sure!!  If you guys haven't heard of them yet, they designed a new turbo system that mounts in place of your mufflers so it stays WAY cooler.  Awesome set up!  Procharger.com

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

is that a B&M Mega or Star Shifter???

[Troy]

Yes dkn1997, you could get 600 hp out of a stroked 440... but then you'd be the same as everyone else. Putting the time, effort, and money into a twin turbo setup has to be for a better reason than pure power - ie. to be different. Although, a 440 in a Dart isn't exactly common to begin with. Also, the TT 440 has 7.5:1 compression ratio, runs cool, probably a decent idle, runs on pump gas most of the time, adjustable power levels, and he claims 20 mpg. You can't say that for a 600 hp NA 440. It will have a lumpy idle, little or no vacuum, a gas hog all the time (probably premium or race gas too), and will be an all-or-nothing motor (meaning you can't exactly de-tune it to drive your kids to the park). For example, the Tech Archive section on Moparts lists the "Default 600 hp combo" and it involves 13.4:1 compression and a .620 lift solid cam (although it does still use ported iron heads). Aluminum heads will flow better of course but the whole build will not be cheap either way. Personally I'd live with a 450 hp 440 and save my money for something else.

A major drawback for me: think of all the weight in the front end of that little car now! I like to be able to turn once in a while. 

Troy

[73rallye440magnum]

I think 600 horse could be pretty easily achieved naturally aspirated. A pair of the new Edelbrock Vic heads could probably help do the trick.

[Troy]

I think 600 horse could be pretty easily achieved naturally aspirated. A pair of the new Edelbrock Vic heads could probably help do the trick.

I edited my post somewhat. I'd like to hear from anyone who has a legitimate 600 hp motor as to how easy it is. I'm gonna say it's not as easy as we'd all like to believe. I would concede 500 hp with the latest advances in heads and parts would be "easy" (but still not cheap enough for me).

Troy

[wetfeetmi]

Dare to be different!  I do not know this guy, but sent him a note commenting on this combo. He was very friendly and has another project in the works. I like someone who takes a chance. I am sure it sounds great and is a treat to drive.

[73rallye440magnum]

Easy is not the word I should have used. It would probably be expensive and take a lot of labor, but I would think with the parts available in the industry that it would be achievable. Troy, I may have missed your first post when I read this... not sure how. Definitely would not have the same mileage and other advantages of the twin turbo set up. I just think that that much power naturally aspirated is a little more respectable versus TT. Just my opinion, though. I'm sure someone here on the forum has some knowledge on this, hopefully they will chip in.

[HITMAN 149]

what's with the "will sell to Ontario residence only"? WTF!!!!!!! we're not good enough a lil bit south?!?!?!?

[Troy]

Troy, I may have missed your first post when I read this... not sure how.

You posted one minute after I did so you were probably reading or typing when I posted. Also, I edited my original post (I always forget something) so you may not have seen the extra parts. For some reason I like to edit a post to add relevant information instead of making a new post - but only if I think I can do it fast enough so that no one has read it.

Easy is not the word I should have used. It would probably be expensive and take a lot of labor, but I would think with the parts available in the industry that it would be achievable.

Yes, definitely possible and achievable. It would be "easy" for an experienced engine builder I'm sure (just not the rest of us). "Cheap" is another one of those relative terms for most people. A $10,000 engine might seem like a steal to someone who is used to building race Hemis but it will cause a severe case of sticker shock to most "average" car guys. I'm not saying that TT car was cheap either so if you compare price and effort the NA 440 will probably be a better approach.

I'm weird I guess. I like it when someone does something different as long as it doesn't impact the original car too much. I'd rather see a twin turbo setup (done nicely) that fits under the hood of a seemingly stock car instead of a 1,200 hp blower poking through a giant hole in the hood on a back-halved car. Of course, I also think anything over 450 hp is useless on the street but what do I know...

Troy

[Mopar440+6]

I respect the work it took to build that car and Im not bashing his efforts but Im just not into the whole "shade tree mechanic's" build. For that setup to make real power the turbos should be pushing the air through the carb not pulling the air thru. The Husky "fuel cell" scares the crap outta me too. That is an air compressor tank not a fuel tank. Its not designed for any of the chemical or physical stresses that a fuel tank or true fuel cell is. Plus mixing N2O and turbos are a great way to grenade a motor. Im sure the car would be a blast to drive but I wouldn't wanna get behind the wheel...

In response to the whole "600 hp being easy" issue. Making horsepower isn't easy whatever way you do it. Forced induction, especially turbos, are an awesome way to make power without sacrificing drivability. Like Troy stated a NA 600hp motor is going to be a full out race motor. But you can easily pull off 600 ponies with a good Procharger or correctly built turbo setup and still have fun with the car on the street. If you just wanna run to the store with the car you back the boost down a little bit and you've got a mild mannered yet insanely fun car. If you decide you're taking the car to the track you just crank the boost back up, throw a helmet on and clean up the strip with a car that no one saw coming...

[Charger-Bodie]

i disagree with that my old charger has a 560 hp hughes crate motor in it and it was smooth as glass all the way thru and very fun on the street

[LargerCharger383]

pretty wild

[TruckDriver]

Nice car, but crappy small pictures of it.

[wetfeetmi]

I question him (Bob) about the tuning and hard staring draw thru setup, and this is his response...

actually this setup starts just as easy as any other setup , the reason is ,under the carb is a dual chamber box that has 2 valves in the bottom with holes under to let the fuel go straight through while starting or idling , then when boost comes in the valves close so fuel goes through the turbo instead , hard to explain , i would have to draw u a picture , but it really works good, like i said , this thing runs like a stock engine untill boost kicks in ,, then its yahooooo,,!!!! ,, i think if u went big block u will have alot more fun , there really isnt anything better than cubic inches , the bigger the better , and there are special mounts for your K memeber to put a BB in ,, all good but also at the cost of fuel mileage , but thats where the turbos work good on a draw through , they act like blenders mixing the fuel while cruising increasing fuel economy ,, i really cant say enough good things about it , turbo's really are fantastic once everything is set up and tuned ,, u should really consider it , i guarantee u will be the talk of the town ,, i am ,, when i go to cruise nights , everyone comes over to check the car out and ask a thousand questions ,, i love it ,,,,,,,,try it , u wont regret it ,, turbo BB , it really is great.

[Silver R/T]

Its great setup, twin fuel tank is great also. Nitrous is setup to spool up twin turbos.

[89MOPAR]

Looked on the procharger site for their "in place of the mufflers turbo setup" - couldn't find it.  Sounds like a plumbers nightmare.  Can you imagine the turbo lag from pushing 10+ feet of exhaust to spool the turbo, and 15+ feet of compressor outlet piping ?

Pretty inventive what the dart owner did. I can almost smell the wires burning though. Thats a lot of heat to manage.

[dkn1997]

They did a vette like that on horsepower tv, they said no lag...then again, who's paying their bills? 

However, when talking about turbocharging a big block mopar, couldn't you tolerate a little lag?  There's enough torque there to burn the tires off as it is, I would think you would want your fat part of the power band to be mid range, too much low and it's usless because it goes up in smoke.

[Charger_Fan]

I respect the work it took to build that car and Im not bashing his efforts but Im just not into the whole "shade tree mechanic's" build. For that setup to make real power the turbos should be pushing the air through the carb not pulling the air thru. The Husky "fuel cell" scares the crap outta me too. That is an air compressor tank not a fuel tank. Its not designed for any of the chemical or physical stresses that a fuel tank or true fuel cell is. Plus mixing N2O and turbos are a great way to grenade a motor.

That's exactly what I thought when viewing those pics. It sounds like his valving idea doesn't draw any air/fuel mix into the turbos when starting & idling, is drawn in later. I don't know about you guys, but an air/fuel mix in a turbo with 1200º exhaust heat on the other side of the wall at 5,000 RPM (& much higher turbo rpm) doesn't sound too stable to me...then adding nitrous to the mix?? No thanks, I'd rather view this one from the bleachers.
Oh yeah...then there's the heat issue.

However, I'll give him kudos for thinking outside the box.

[OttawaCharger]

what's with the "will sell to Ontario residence only"? WTF!!!!!!! we're not good enough a lil bit south?!?!?!?

Apparently, the people to the east and the west of him aren't good enough either. 

[superduperbee]

 Twin turbo setup is excellent choice for the street. big power in a mild [ and quiet ]  combination. As for the nitrous, nitrous works better for cooling under high boost than as a power adder, especially if there's no intercooler in the system.Scary fuel cell! NOS can cool the charge 150 degrees and actually save the engine from detonation  if used properly.  600 hp not hard to make at all these days. But you still have to put it to the ground. I will post pictures of the 510 inch 440 on alcohol and nitrous I have built for my super bee as soon as I get my new photo account in order. Streetable NO, fun ? YES superduperbee

[69hemi]

A fairly complex setup that begs the question, if he used copper pipe & hardware store fittings for his fuel lines to the carb, what other no-nos are hiding under that plumbers nightmare?

[RT DAVE]

Are we talking net or gross hp?  If we're talking net (at the rear wheels), I really don't think so.  I think they say net hp is only 80% of gross, so we'd be taling 750 gross hp (the way the used to rate motors pre 72).    

[RD]

...I just think that that much power naturally aspirated is a little more respectable versus TT. Just my opinion, though. I'm sure someone here on the forum has some knowledge on this, hopefully they will chip in.

I personally think any good amount of horsepower you get out of your engine in any fashion and is reliable is respectable.

I used to say stuff like what you are saying, and I am just speaking for myself mind you, but I would say it just because I knew I would probably never build a TT or Supercharged car and it was out of petty jealousy.

Naturally aspirated, Turbocharged, or supercharged, who cares, the key questions are (1) is it a mopar and (2) does it HAUL ASS!