My mom is making me put in headrests and shoulder belts...I need ideas

[Harlow]

This is on moparts too, but I thought id get it started over here as well.

My mom is in nursing school and just saw a presentation on neck injuries and how they are prominent with boys my age. She is insisting that I cannot drive my car ('68 Sport Satellite) that I just got running, until I install shoulder belts and head rests. I'm hoping I can talk her into letting me drive it for the time being, but I'm pretty sure in the long run I'm going to have to put them in. What have you guys done for shoulder belts? What about installing headrests in a bucket seat that did not come with headrests? I'm guessing I will need to buy the head rest channels that the headrests attach to inside the seat, and then find a used pair of headrests and restore them. Does anyone reproduce the whole set up? or at least the actual head rest? Any info on doing these conversions or pictures showing what you guys have done in your cars would be great.

- Scott

[moparguy01]

Your not going to have any luck putting a headrest into that seat. the internals arent designed for it so unless you know what your doing with interior work, i dont think your going to get it right. No offence. My advise would be to put some different seats out of a more modern car. or even a set of high back buckets from a 3rd gen charger. as far as the shoulder harness, Have fun. they make them but they dont work worth a crap. put a rollbar in and mount 5 point racing harnesses. I did.  if there good enough for a 100MPH roundy round car crash, their good enough for the street.

[Mean 318]

My advice is to talk your mom off the ledge! No offence, but I am sure you can talk her down! GOOD LUCK!

[69bronzeT5]

My Charger already has headrests and it just has lapbelts and my mom has no probs with that. My dad is installing disc brakes to make it safer to drive. And Mean318----I pm'ed you

[tan top]

not a bad idea to put shoulder belts in it  though 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Get some Summit Racing seats & some 5 point harnesses like Mike (Mr. Angry) has in his 68

[69bronzeT5]

Get some Summit Racing seats & some 5 point harnesses like Mike (Mr. Angry) has in his 68

[Harlow]

Mr. Angry can I see a good picture of what you have set up? Whats funny is after seeing Bullrun I mentioned getting some seat belts like you have in your car. A 5 point harness...does that mean 5 buckles? I actually agreed upon putting in headrests and shoulder belts so I could buy the car. I just didn't know I wasn't going to be able to drive it (hopefully I can talk her into letting me drive if I order the seats/belts) without them. I'm sure Mr. angry isn't the only one that has put more modern safety features in their car (as far as seats and shoulder belts) so lets see some of your setups.

[Charger1973]

Mr. Angry can I see a good picture of what you have set up? Whats funny is after seeing Bullrun I mentioned getting some seat belts like you have in your car. A 5 point harness...does that mean 5 buckles?

[Old Moparz]

Not sure if you'd like this idea, but there are modern seats that have the shoulder belt built in. It could be an option if you find one you can live with, it'll save you the trouble of looking for a way to mount the OEM type. Less modifications & perhaps a more comfortable seat. Now I'm wondering if any of the after-market seats have the built in belt option?

[Charger1973]

Not sure if you'd like this idea, but there are modern seats that have the shoulder belt built in. It could be an option if you find one you can live with, it'll save you the trouble of looking for a way to mount the OEM type. Less modifications & perhaps a more comfortable seat. Now I'm wondering if any of the after-market seats have the built in belt option?

If it were me, I would go this route.  It would be the cheapest and easiest for sure.  It might not look the coolest, but you can install them and save your stock seats.  Then when you are old enough to tell your mom how it is, put the original seats back.  No worries about permanently modifying your car. 

[SeattleCharger]

Can you find shoulder belts from some other vehicle from these years, and just bolt them into the roof where they would go if the car had them stock? 
  I am concerned about not having shoulder belts also. 

[SnoPro440]

I have the 5 piont harness in my car.  The seats are from a ford probe.  This is how I purchased the car a few years ago.  I will be changing the seats, but the 5 point is staying.

[Harlow]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy some after market racing seats like Mr. Angry has (I saw his car domain). I really liked his setup. Now my question is should I go with a non-retractable harness like he has or should I get some kind of retractable setup? How do you guys like your harness setups?

[hotrod98]

I have the 5 point harness in my car.  The seats are from a ford probe.  This is how I purchased the car a few years ago.  I will be changing the seats, but the 5 point is staying.

It's difficult to tell from the pics, but I think your shoulder harnesses are installed incorrectly and could cause you serious injury.
The shoulder belts should be attached to a roll bar or a solid part of the car 1-4 inches below your shoulder. If you plan to keep the harnesses, be sure and add a roll bar so that you will have a place to attach them.
I'm kind of safety conscious.  I've been racing super comp cars for almost 35 years without an injury.

http://www.gforce.com/pdf/harnessinstall.pdf

[68chrgrwife]

Not sure if you'd like this idea, but there are modern seats that have the shoulder belt built in. It could be an option if you find one you can live with, it'll save you the trouble of looking for a way to mount the OEM type. Less modifications & perhaps a more comfortable seat. Now I'm wondering if any of the after-market seats have the built in belt option?

There were no aftermarket shoulder harness type seatbelts for my 73 Challenger just so you know...called around several different places.  Your best bet is to go with the five pint harnesses.

[PocketThunder]

Not sure if you'd like this idea, but there are modern seats that have the shoulder belt built in. It could be an option if you find one you can live with, it'll save you the trouble of looking for a way to mount the OEM type. Less modifications & perhaps a more comfortable seat. Now I'm wondering if any of the after-market seats have the built in belt option?

i have a write up on this somewhere about using Chrysler Sebring seat.

[BB1]

Put on your 5 point harnesses to go to the store.  Get real.

[SeattleCharger]

Put on your 5 point harnesses to go to the store.  Get real.

How many times you hear that,  "I was only going to the store"

[moparguy01]

That pic above has the harnesses mounted in an unsafe way. not necessarily wrong, as i've seen a few 5 point harnesses designed to mount to the floor, and they might have their place. its not in any of my cars however. What will happen in the case of an accident wearing a 5 point setup mounted to the floor is that all the shock force will be put back down into your shoulder harness, which will jamb down on your spine and can cause injury.
you want it mounted just about shoulder level. which will put the force more on your chest in a rearward motion, which will have a better chance at not causing injury.


and yes, BB1, i do put on my harness to go to the store. it doesnt take much longer to put a harness on than to buckle a regular seat belt. and i can get out of it in way less time.

[SeattleCharger]

 anyone ever get a junk yard seat belt from anything and put a shoulder harness in?  can you bolt into the roof somewhere similar to how the shoulder harness stock models later 68's and beyond are set up?  thanks, Nate

[2Gunz]

Here ......

http://www.corvairkid.com/sebring.htm

Credit goes to somebody else on this forum.

I just remembered it.


On a side note that style and color looks like ass.

However I was at the dealer today and saw a black leather/cloth set that looked nice.

[PocketThunder]

Here ......

http://www.corvairkid.com/sebring.htm

Credit goes to somebody else on this forum.

I just remembered it.


On a side note that style and color looks like ass.

However I was at the dealer today and saw a black leather/cloth set that looked nice.

Yes!  That the website i was trying to find... thanks for posting

[2Gunz]

Well than I guess the credit goes to you 

[Harlow]

Mr. Angry can you give me a little info on the setup you have? I'd like to do (pretty much) exactly with you. So if you don't mind could you give me some info on how you mounted your harness and what seats your using etc.

Scott

[FastbackJon]

Just start doing crack cocaine, it should distract her from bugging you about installing seatbelts.

[BB1]

Good one.

SeattleCDog
People who live their lives in fear death, die every day. People who don't, die once.

[SeattleCharger]

Good one.

SeattleCDog
People who live their lives in fear death, die every day. People who don't, die once.

ya, but can you put a seat belt from some other type of car (shoulder strap) into an early '68?  How is the belt bolted into the ceiling in later 68's and 69 70 etc.? thank you, 

   No God   Know Fear
   Know God, No Fear

          I love to drive, also always wear my seatbelt (most always),  ever since I had to go to traffic safety class for too many tickets, whatever, when I was younger, they had a movie of car crashes, graphic face-plants mostly, and a clip from nascar drivers saying how they always wear their seatbelts in their regular cars, that it wasn't cool not to wear one.  Being an impressionable young chap, I listened to the nascar driver guys.  Sounded like some good common sense to me, and they were cool, so I could live with that.

[bull]

I'm just guessing but it seems to me a five-point harness isn't going to help you much in this scenario:

[hutch]

I'm just guessing but it seems to me a five-point harness isn't going to help you much in this scenario:

"Its the A-hab derby and that was the lead driver from team Moo-hamad"

[LL1 1967 Coronet]

This is a really good discussion. I always thought about the same thing.... taking a roof mounted shoulder belt from a 1970-72 B-body and retrofitting it to the roof of an earlier mopar like my 67 Coronet for example.  It would look decent, and even factory looking if you used the correct roof mounted belt hanger brackets to keep it up when not in use. My initial thought (without researching that much ) was not only would you have to change the lap belt, there has to be some extra bracing and support structure from the factory, and that would also have to come from the donor car's roof. As far as Chargers go, I'm pretty sure 1970 Chargers had roof mounted shoulder belts because 1970 e-body's did, and there was probably a movement to get all passenger cars up to gov't law by that time...hence, the new for 1970 (b and e) high back bucket seats to prevent whiplash, and new for 1970 (even more collapsable) collumns ...E-body's also had those crush cans.   I remember cheap bench seat cars like Dusters, having humps on the front seatbacks to prevent whiplash  - - " tombstone bench style."

Does anyone have more experience with this?  I agree, that (a nicely done) shoulder belt would be a very good addition to a muscle car. I personally don't like the idea of the racing harness unbless the car is a modified or resto mod.     

[SnoPro440]

I have the 5 point harness in my car.  The seats are from a ford probe.  This is how I purchased the car a few years ago.  I will be changing the seats, but the 5 point is staying.

It's difficult to tell from the pics, but I think your shoulder harnesses are installed incorrectly and could cause you serious injury.
The shoulder belts should be attached to a roll bar or a solid part of the car 1-4 inches below your shoulder. If you plan to keep the harnesses, be sure and add a roll bar so that you will have a place to attach them.
I'm kind of safety conscious.  I've been racing super comp cars for almost 35 years without an injury.

http://www.gforce.com/pdf/harnessinstall.pdf

I had no idea.  That's how they were installed when I bought the car.  Thank you for the info.  Maybe I will get rid of the 5 point and just go with a seat that has the shoulder belts contained inside.  I felt safe wearing them, but if they are installed wrong and could possibly do more damage than good, I need to change it. 

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

Just to let you know these cars were not made for impact, should let your mommy know that any accident you get in with one of these cars you and the car are gonna be hurtin bad , if you dont wanna worry about gettin hurt buy a toyota

[SeattleCharger]

Just to let you know these cars were not made for impact, should let your mommy know that any accident you get in with one of these cars you and the car are gonna be hurtin bad , if you dont wanna worry about gettin hurt buy a toyota

      A 444 c.u.i. engine in a 3800 lb. good old American steel big car, (a Charger is a pretty big car), does offer some protection if you have on belts, doesn't it?  I don't know, its possible you could crush a Toyota pretty easily and barely dent your fender.   
                 

[Troy]

Just to let you know these cars were not made for impact, should let your mommy know that any accident you get in with one of these cars you and the car are gonna be hurtin bad , if you dont wanna worry about gettin hurt buy a toyota

      A 444 c.u.i. engine in a 3800 lb. good old American steel big car, (a Charger is a pretty big car), does offer some protection if you have on belts, doesn't it?  I don't know, its possible you could crush a Toyota pretty easily and barely dent your fender.   
                 

Yes, you can pretty much squish more modern cars. I know from experience - 1968 Charger vs a mid-80s Mustang that ran a stop sign. I needed a fender and bumper but the Mustang was wiped out from the driver's door forward. I was doing 35 when I slammed on the brakes and maybe 20 at impact. The problem is that the Charger will transmit the entire force of the impact to the driver. Another of my cars tried to move a tree at high speed and failed (before I got it). There are large dents in the dash from the driver's knees (ouch!) and the steering column is about two inches short. He's lucky the car has a collapsible steering column or he'd have been impaled. The hood dented the cowl but didn't come through the windshield or he'd have been impaled and beheaded which would have made the knee pain irrelevant. Surprisingly the frame is relatively straight.

On a more morbid note, early cars without a shoulder belt were known as "jaw breakers" because that's what happened when you're head slammed into the steering wheel when the lap belt kept your lower body attached to the seat.

I was just looking at a retractable belt setup for the Barracuda a few weeks ago. It seemed pretty nice. The retractor was on the floor next to the lap belt retractor and there was a guide attached to the roof mounting point for the original shoulder belt. It used a modern looking clasp which made it obvious but I suppose not having to roll the seatbelts up into the ceiling is probably worth it. It actually looked a lot like the system in my Tacoma. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Troy

[400/6/PAC]

HarLow
I hope you dont mind if I ask a question on your thread.
You guy's got me worried now.
Will this seat belt do more harm then good?

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

thats what i mean Troy not like your car would be in worse shape it is that you feel the same impact the car gets, as with a car that was made for impacts you wouldnt as much

[SeattleCharger]

 crumple zones and all that, important, so is size and weight and heaviness and thickness of steel and angles of impact of vehicles,  model of toyota?  a train hitting a car is same energy as a truck running over an aluminum beer can,  a charger running into side door of toyota tercel, not good for totota in that scenario, head on collision of charger and totota tundra, I would rather be in the pick up,  I just feel safer in a big heavy vehicle than a puddle jumper, don't care what year they are

[Troy]

Here's a quick primer on racing seat belts (and how they should be mounted):
http://www.stockcarracing.com/howto/scrp_0603_racing_seatbelt_installation/

There's also a section in the SCCA rulebook but I don't have a link. My understanding is that shoulder harnesses need to mount anywhere from straight back to 10-15 degrees down from the shoulders. No belts can be attached to only the floor pan. Also, the shorter the belt the less it will stretch in an impact so it helps to have the belts attached to a bar as near to the seat as possible. Another thing to check if you go this route is that many 5 point harnesses are "race only" and NOT legal in states that require seat belts by law. Make sure you have a street and track certified system. Race belts also have an expiration date. In my opinion, a 5 or 6 point harness is complete overkill for the street and a big pain if you have to drive the car every day.

Another option: I know my 68 Chargers without shoulder belts still had the mounting points in the roof. I have no idea when Chrysler started this but it may not hurt to check your car to see if you can just mount a set of stock belts from another Chrysler car. They won't retract but it will get you on the road. Check this link for more info:
http://www.allpar.com/history/plymouth/1967.html

Here's a guy who put modern belts in a 67 Mustang:
http://www.472ci-67mustang.com/Seat_Belt_Pages/Seat_Belts_index.htm

Troy

[Harlow]

If I got the racing seats, is there any option for a seat belt that wont have to mount to the roof? I wouldn't mind having the harness but I don't want to put in a bar or have them go back at an angle and mount behind the back seat. Please give me some ideas, I don't want to have a street ready car that I can't drive I would like to do some seats like the ones in the attached picture, but I need to have some shoulder belts.

[Old Moparz]

I just read through more of the posts & saw the link to the Sebring seat swap. My next door neighbor's Sebring convertible is why I had mentioned looking for a late model seat earlier. The Chebby pick ups we have at work also have the seat belt within the seat because of the 2 suicide doors on the extended cabs. The full size pick up truck seats may be too wide, but now I'm wondering if any of the mid size trucks, like Dakotas, use this type of seat belt arrangement?

Something I'd like to add about the convenience of a retractable belts, is if you try reaching for the stereo or the glove box while belted in wearing a non-retracting seat belt, it isn't happening.   

My 1971 Scamp has 2 separate sets of belts, one pair for the lap, & one pair for the shoulder. Neither are retractable & only adjustable by pulling or loosening the belt through the buckles. The lap belt isn't the issue, but if you have the shoulder belt on & it's adjusted to hold you in place, there is no release or recoil system to allow you to lean forward to reach for anything. Yeah, I know it may not be a big problem, but after having later model cars & trucks with modern belts, the old type seem like a real hassle.

My 1969 Satellite convertible has lap belts only, but my plan was to install newer, leather seats from a LeBaron interior I got from a junk yard. I may consider the Sebring type set up now since originality has never been an issue.