So why the hostility towards environmentalism?

[Orange_Crush]

I was reading with some interest the "global warming" thread and I have often wondered why this is considered such a divisive subject.  Any time that someone mentions anything about living "sustainably" in any way, shape, or form.  He or she is labeled a tree-hugger, liberal, hippie, etc. etc. etc.  Personally, I like the thought of decreasing the size of my "footprint" on the planet.  I have found that making a conscious effort to do so has not only given me a sense of satisfaction, but it has also made me healthier and made my life a little less expensive.  Here are some of the things I've done.

1.  I have made it a point to throw on a packpack and ride a bike for any errands less than five miles.  This saves me gas, makes me healthier, and keeps some pollutants out of the air.

2.  I buy locally grown fruits and vegetables (usually organic) at farmer's markets.  That means less fuel used to transport the food AND it supports local farmers.

3.  I only buy meat that is raised locally or regionally.  I try to limit my fish intake to farm raised fish unless it's a special occasion.  Hopefully, if enough people do that, overfishing will be reduced.

4.  Next year, I'll be switching my hopelessly outdated HVAC system for a VERY high efficiency very.  Right now, I keep my thermostat at 65 degrees in winter, and 78 degrees in summer.  Going from 70 to 65 degrees in winter save me RIDICULOUS amounts of money.

5.  When I go shopping for more than just a couple of things, I take my own bags instead of using the paper or plastic bags at the store.

6.  I car-pool to work.

There are other things I do, but this proves that you don't have to be radical about things.  I just can't understand why this type of thing gets you labeled a liberal radical whacko.

[Jon Smith]

Its common sense not to be wasteful really
I think when people get upset its often an over reaction to something thats been said (wrongly) blaming our old cars for everything wrong with the planet

[6pkrunner]

I am not in the least against be environmentally friendly. Its just that, like everything else, its an opportunity for the less scruptulous to gouge - governments also.
Already the power companys are telling of 3 fold increases in power rates if they have to go greener - not to Kyoto Accord specs - just get rid of one or two coal fired furnaces.
Most countries are predicting at least a 10-20% increase in greenhouse gases by 2012 before they can even consider a turnaround.
But we do have to stop somewhere and sometime. Lets make it as painless as possible to the average Jane and Joe. To get people to change their views or habits is a difficult thing and must be done slowly.

[TeeWJay426]

I don't think environmentalism is so much the issue, as the typical beaureaucratic agency force feeding us everything for our own good is (ie, the EPA). It's a typical federal entity that does its best to create problems that must be solved to perpetuate it's own existence. I'm all for environmentalism.... I recycle, do what I can to keep my energy use down at home (and cost as well). I don't think the scientific community has proven that global warming is really an issue yet- there is just as much scientific evidence to suggest that the planet as a whole is still emerging from the last ice age, and the historical data to suggest that there is a definite trend caused by mankind is more extrapolated than concrete in its existence. And as is typical, it's biggest cause leader,the hypocritical Al Gore, is himself a huge energy consumer, with his 3 palatial estates.... and when was the last time he commuted anyplace in a Prius? Furthermore, when we in the USA are doing more than our global share to be environmentally responsible, when you see the complete lack of any environmental controls whatsoever overseas, which I've seen firsthand, there has to be some sort of a wake up call that we can't save the world all by ourselves.

[AKcharger]

I'm not hostile towards people who want to pollute less and use less energy...makes sense to me, but I do resent groups determining how I'll live and Governments becoming bigger and more powerful, while lampooning anyone who disagrees as a "Global Warming Denier" and shunning debate.

[mikepmcs]

OC
I applaud the stuff you are doing as it is your life and you are doing your part to try and make your world a better place.  I wouldn't put you in that category just for the things you mentioned but It's the extremists and the people that ram this stuff down your throat that I will put in to that category.

I have no use for the people that protest and go out of there way to try to make me realize something that i might or might not already know.  I will however go out of my way to try to run them over if I see anyone protesting the troops.  That does not show unity and support for our men and women fighting for this country but in fact that is the very reason I fight for it so these retards can make fools of themselves and exercise that right.

That was a little off/on subject but it all goes hand in hand with the aforementioned tree huggers, liberals, environerds, etc.... It's ok if you are liberal or conscious about the earth and want to do ones part but I say just keep it to yourself(not you specifically, everyone).  We call them granola heads up here in maine and I am way outnumbered for sure, but I have weapons and as long as they don't bother me, I won't blow the Birkenstocks off their feet.

Kind of like the alternative lifestyle folks out there.  I have no problem with your orientation, but don't tell me about it or do some million g/l march etc..... I don't give a crap, so they can all just shut the heck up and we'll all get along just fine. 

You can see which side of the fence I lean but like I said I did my talking by joining the Navy for 20 years not standing on some street corner and holding up a sign when in fact most of them have no idea what really goes on because they have never been there or done that. 

Like I said if that is your plan then stick to it as I'm sure you are a very content person but I don't like the government trying to bend over backwards to appease these groups and making laws that could eventually not let me drive my hot rods and stuff(maybe a bad example but you get my point).  This earth has been around a long time and it sure will be here a lot longer regardless of what we do.

I could go on with superfluous thoughts that are in my head but i'll stop there for now. 
Yes I do not believe in the Global Waring BS either.  Weather patterns are cyclic, if that wasn't the truth then the high temp of 56 degrees in 1905 and the low of -20 in 1955 would be replaced everyday by new temps as the high and low in my opinion.
Just another reason for someone to serve an agenda and scare the world.  Oh yeah and make more money for their cause.

v/r
Mike

[GTX]

I think that it's a knee jerk reaction to militant 'tree huggers' who try to take our cars away from us and force us to drive what they would like and things like that.

I have a friend in Colorado who is always on me for my choice in vehicle, the fact that I own a boat etc etc and yet he works for the government and flies back east to D.C several times a month and doesn't see the waste in that. I'm all for saving the planet and do what I can when I can for the most part but I don't like being called names when I don't live as he lives for example. 

One example of hypocrisy is that each year several times a year he leaves his little Honda home and rents a 'hulking gas guzzling suv' ( his words of mine) and takes the family on a trip across the country. Either that or he puts them all on a plane and they fly to a destination where everyone is conscious of saving....Las Vegas.

[mikepmcs]

 

Exactly, oh yeah I forgot to say k#$L ralph nader.  J/K(unless of course he drives..errr i mean rides his bike into my yard)

M

[Old Moparz]

People at both ends of the spectrum are needed, to keep the people at both ends of the spectrum in check. It has to be that way because neither ends can be entirely trusted.

[Charger_Fan]

Right now, I keep my thermostat at 65 degrees in winter, and 78 degrees in summer.  Going from 70 to 65 degrees in winter save me RIDICULOUS amounts of money.

There's no way in hell I'd leave mine at 65 in the winter, 69 is the coldest I'm willing to put up with. I hate cold.
The a/c is set at 80 in the summer, mainly to keep other family members from snivveling. I love heat.

The overly vocal greenies are the only ones that bother me. You know, the ones that try to make it so any & all undeveloped land is strictly forbidden for humans to set foot on, so some endangered weed or fungus can survive. The ones that burn Hummers on the dealership lots in an attempt to force other non-like minded people to conform to their beliefs, etc.
Some of those folks need prison time to reflect on the real importances in life.

I was sort of environmentally conscious for a while...about 15 years ago there was a big push in our community to recycle. There were recycling bins in numerous grocery store parking lots & my family recycled as much as we could...cardboard, newspapers & phone books, plastic, glass, aluminum, steel cans, etc. Part of the idea was to peel off labels & rinse out the containers, to make them more easily recycleable & at least 3 times a week, I'd take loads of recycleables to those bins on the way to work. Our garbage guy didn't have much to pick up.
We also bought reuseable grocery bags, to cut down on plastic & paper...still have a bunch of those somewhere.
I think that whole recycling push lasted about 2 years before it started fizzling out.
First to go was the glass recycling (employees were getting bad cuts at work). Citizens no longer bothered to clean out containers & peel labels...then they got REAL lazy...they started mixing everything together in the bins, instead of separating. Then it seems that the rest of their garbage started showing up too , the writing was on the wall (not just graffiti on the containers ).
Soon, the containers were gone & thusly our recycling days came to an end.

Feel good fads like that only work as long as everyone is on the same page. When people start getting lazy about it, that's when the party's over & reality sets in. Humans in a general sense are messy. As soon as the greenies can figure a solution to that problem, then maybe some progress can be made.

Oh & I don't eat fish, so I'm ahead of the curve on that one.

[BB1]

I don't recycle, except oil.
I don't follow a political movement based on bad science; I hate Algor.
Nobody asked, why Mars is heating up.
Why is China and other dirty nations are not held to the same standards.
The sky is falling people are always out there, without a big scare these people can't live. 

[Brock Samson]

i think it's the "Not In My Back Yard" sydrome.
here in sf our recycleing system has been a major success. 
But  Chris and I agree!?.  What The Hell!
I guess that explains the sudden bright light that illuminated my room early this morning! 

[MichaelRW]

I'm all for true environmentalism but will fight tooth and nail against those that use issues (fabricated or otherwise) for political agendas, those that want a redistribution of the USA'a wealth, those that want a global world order, and those that just want to cram their ideas down your throat.

[mikepmcs]

The ones that burn Hummers on the dealership lots in an attempt to force other non-like minded people to conform to their beliefs, etc.
Some of those folks need prison time to reflect on the real importances in life.

I always found that Hummer thing a little funny myself.  I would get flipped off at least twice a week by people driving by because they didn't like my H2 driving around sucking up the earth.  The fact is my Hummer flirted with 15 mpg and the truck I have now(1 ton chevy dually with a 502) gets around 9mpg, nobody is flipping me off now. 
Ignorance, with no actual stats or proof, is a good word to use in alot of these scenarios.

v/r
Mike

[bull]

It's one thing to recycle, ride your bike, buy a car that gets 40 mpg, etc., but too many environmental wackos are too hellbent on f*%@ing everyone else over who doesn't subscribe to their lifestyle. They think they are saving the planet by forcing everyone to think like they do when all they're really doing is putting farmers, loggers and fishermen out of work.

I grew up in a small logging/farming community in northeast Oregon in the '80s and the environmentalists ruined people's lives there for nothing. They just kept filing lawsuits over timber sales until the industry was all but decimated and the population of the county dropped by almost half. The timber industry never recovered there but the population has bounced back because several hundred artists have moved into the area.

The thing that pisses me off most about environmentalists is their arrogance in thinking they know everything about rural citizens. They apparently think they are all stupid, ignorant rednecks who don't know how to take care of the land and use it at the same time. I don't think most environmentalists ever spend more than two weeks a year outside of the city and so they are operating on erroneous assumptions when they visit rural areas. Maybe they see a clear cut and think it just gets left that way. Maybe they see some cows being milked and call it animal abuse. I don't know what they are thinking but the point is they don't know what farmers and loggers are thinking either because they've never taken the time to stop and really investigate the process or they assume the extreme examples are the norm. They just assume it's all bad because they don't do it. All the while they eat the food produced by farmers and build houses from the lumber produced by loggers. Then they bitch because the price of food and building supplies is so high.

[Shakey]

Maybe they see some cows being milked and call it animal abuse.

I'll never forget seeing photos of a PETA protest in Maryland outside of a laboratory.  Someone was holding a sign that said - "RATS HAVE RIGHTS".   

[Charger1970]

I'm not hostile towards people who want to pollute less and use less energy...makes sense to me, but I do resent groups determining how I'll live and Governments becoming bigger and more powerful, while lampooning anyone who disagrees as a "Global Warming Denier" and shunning debate.

I totally agree.

Re: So why the hostility towards environmentalism?

Because the environmental movement is both a money-grab and a power-grab.

[69Coronet]

PETA

People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

[68chrgrwife]

I don't recycle, except oil.
I don't follow a political movement based on bad science; I hate Algor.
Nobody asked, why Mars is heating up.
Why is China and other dirty nations are not held to the same standards.
The sky is falling people are always out there, without a big scare these people can't live. 

The Al Gore movement is affecting china and a lot of those "dirty" nations.  They are cleaning up their nations. In fact they show that the US has the most "bad air". I recycle, but I will not go out of my way to do so.  They say that everything that is going to happen with global warming is going to happen in our life time.  By 2050 the world is "going to hell in a handbag"...according to Gore and his studies.  Personally I can't stand him and all he stands for (I am republican).  I believe he is fueling his own political campain to make himself look better.  The Mars heating up is from the gasses that we are emitting into the atmosphere, according to Gore (just so you know).

[mikepmcs]

Don't you mean the hot air that Gore and the like are emitting is causing Mars to heat up and here's a news flash(not in reference to you 68CW) I don't live on Mars and could care less about it.

No if you'll excuse me I have to go pour some oil in the ground and kill my weeds with antifreeze.DOH!!!

[bull]

I don't recycle, except oil.
I don't follow a political movement based on bad science; I hate Algor.
Nobody asked, why Mars is heating up.
Why is China and other dirty nations are not held to the same standards.
The sky is falling people are always out there, without a big scare these people can't live. 

The Al Gore movement is affecting china and a lot of those "dirty" nations.  They are cleaning up their nations. In fact they show that the US has the most "bad air". I recycle, but I will not go out of my way to do so.  They say that everything that is going to happen with global warming is going to happen in our life time.  By 2050 the world is "going to hell in a handbag"...according to Gore and his studies.  Personally I can't stand him and all he stands for (I am republican).  I believe he is fueling his own political campain to make himself look better.  The Mars heating up is from the gasses that we are emitting into the atmosphere, according to Gore (just so you know).

If the US has the worst air pollution it's because it's floating over here from China. There have been two recent articles in the Oregonian newspaper about how the pollution from China is causing some problems with the weather patterns and air quality in the Northwest. I don't know if it's more sci-fi or what but their junk is being exported in more ways than one.

Here's one atricle: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/11731587094011.xml&coll=7

[68chrgrwife]

Don't you mean the hot air that Gore and the like are emitting is causing Mars to heat up and here's a news flash(not in reference to you 68CW) I don't live on Mars and could care less about it.

No if you'll excuse me I have to go pour some oil in the ground and kill my weeds with antifreeze.DOH!!!

I personally don't care about Mars either, I will never live there, but I do care about what is going to happen to my kids.  I take care of recycling, but that is the extent of what I am willing to do on part.  I also just bought one of those push lawn mowers that does not use gas or electric just spinning blades.  But driving a mopar, a 4 cyl. honda (whose cat is bad), and a suv I guess I am still killing the air-----oh well, like I said in another post there is a reason why this is all happening and if you really want to know what my theory is pm me and we'll talk.

[BB1]

______________________________________________________________________________________

[Shakey]

I don't recycle, except oil.
I don't follow a political movement based on bad science; I hate Algor.
Nobody asked, why Mars is heating up.
Why is China and other dirty nations are not held to the same standards.
The sky is falling people are always out there, without a big scare these people can't live. 

The Al Gore movement is affecting china and a lot of those "dirty" nations.  They are cleaning up their nations. In fact they show that the US has the most "bad air". I recycle, but I will not go out of my way to do so.  They say that everything that is going to happen with global warming is going to happen in our life time.  By 2050 the world is "going to hell in a handbag"...according to Gore and his studies.  Personally I can't stand him and all he stands for (I am republican).  I believe he is fueling his own political campain to make himself look better.  The Mars heating up is from the gasses that we are emitting into the atmosphere, according to Gore (just so you know).

If the US has the worst air pollution it's because it's floating over here from China. There have been two recent articles in the Oregonian newspaper about how the pollution from China is causing some problems with the weather patterns and air quality in the Northwest. I don't know if it's more sci-fi or what but their junk is being exported in more ways than one.

Here's one atricle: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/11731587094011.xml&coll=7

I've read articles like that recently also.  I've also read about the air pollution that floats into Canada from the United States - don't bother me none!   

[bull]

I don't recycle, except oil.
I don't follow a political movement based on bad science; I hate Algor.
Nobody asked, why Mars is heating up.
Why is China and other dirty nations are not held to the same standards.
The sky is falling people are always out there, without a big scare these people can't live. 

The Al Gore movement is affecting china and a lot of those "dirty" nations.  They are cleaning up their nations. In fact they show that the US has the most "bad air". I recycle, but I will not go out of my way to do so.  They say that everything that is going to happen with global warming is going to happen in our life time.  By 2050 the world is "going to hell in a handbag"...according to Gore and his studies.  Personally I can't stand him and all he stands for (I am republican).  I believe he is fueling his own political campain to make himself look better.  The Mars heating up is from the gasses that we are emitting into the atmosphere, according to Gore (just so you know).

If the US has the worst air pollution it's because it's floating over here from China. There have been two recent articles in the Oregonian newspaper about how the pollution from China is causing some problems with the weather patterns and air quality in the Northwest. I don't know if it's more sci-fi or what but their junk is being exported in more ways than one.

Here's one atricle: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/11731587094011.xml&coll=7

I've read articles like that recently also.  I've also read about the air pollution that floats into Canada from the United States - don't bother me none!   

That's Chinese pollution that we add to and then send north.

[Guns N Rotors]

Here are some pics for ya! Just some peace loving environmentalists doing their thing!

[Guns N Rotors]

One more...

[Khyron]

wow! 

what the hell they hit that thing with? Must be some steroids in their veggie burgers!

[73dodge]

I remember the 70's and driving through Cleveland and seeing the smoke stacks billowing all the pollution in the air, back then they were worried about the coming ice age.

Then it was the hole in the ozone, did you know that the stinkin hole in the Ozone closed up in 2001 look it up I saw it on the National Academy of Sciences web site? Then opened again, then closed again. Remember we were on the brink of disaster because of the hole in the ozone.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast12dec_1.htm

So now Global Warming is cause celeb for the hollywood crowd to weep and cry over because they need something to make themselves feel important to make people think they "care".

The atmosphere changes the climate changes it cycles but I hate the friggin nanny state telling me what and how to live my life, I know that the nanny state government is being influenced by environmental wakkos demanding gutless politicians pass laws restricting our freedoms on where to build homes, what to drive and how to live my life. Now the environmental nut jobs have spineless politicians cowed into passing regulations telling people what they can and cannot build on their property because they have a puddle that forms in their back yard after a rain storm and that qualifies it as a wet land. Or the fact that you cannot do something because some nut job finds a rare furry rodent living in the dirt on your property and then declares it an endangered species and then you cannot do anything on your own land because you might disturb it's natural habitat.

I do not recycle, if the city wants me to separate my trash into plastic paper and bottles they can give me a container to do it and they can stop charging me for garbage pickup. Then I will separate my trash.

I drive where I want when I want I do not car pool and drive a big Dodge minivan because I need it to haul my kids around. I drive a dodge intrepid but if they are going to force me into buying a hybrid then I will make damn sure I buy a Toyota Prius that is 100% manufactured in Japan.


That's why I hate environmentalists they have turned the responsible stewardship of the earth into a religion and demand that you bow down at the alter of there particular brand of dogma...

[Charger_Fan]

Then it was the hole in the ozone, did you know that the stinkin hole in the Ozone closed up in 2001 look it up I saw it on the National Academy of Sciences web site? Then opened again, then closed again.

Sounds like a giant sphincter...

[mikepmcs]

I remember the 70's and driving through Cleveland and seeing the smoke stacks billowing all the pollution in the air, back then they were worried about the coming ice age.

Then it was the hole in the ozone, did you know that the stinkin hole in the Ozone closed up in 2001 look it up I saw it on the National Academy of Sciences web site? Then opened again, then closed again. Remember we were on the brink of disaster because of the hole in the ozone.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast12dec_1.htm

So now Global Warming is cause celeb for the hollywood crowd to weep and cry over because they need something to make themselves feel important to make people think they "care".

The atmosphere changes the climate changes it cycles but I hate the friggin nanny state telling me what and how to live my life, I know that the nanny state government is being influenced by environmental wakkos demanding gutless politicians pass laws restricting our freedoms on where to build homes, what to drive and how to live my life. Now the environmental nut jobs have spineless politicians cowed into passing regulations telling people what they can and cannot build on their property because they have a puddle that forms in their back yard after a rain storm and that qualifies it as a wet land. Or the fact that you cannot do something because some nut job finds a rare furry rodent living in the dirt on your property and then declares it an endangered species and then you cannot do anything on your own land because you might disturb it's natural habitat.

I do not recycle, if the city wants me to separate my trash into plastic paper and bottles they can give me a container to do it and they can stop charging me for garbage pickup. Then I will separate my trash.

I drive where I want when I want I do not car pool and drive a big Dodge minivan because I need it to haul my kids around. I drive a dodge intrepid but if they are going to force me into buying a hybrid then I will make damn sure I buy a Toyota Prius that is 100% manufactured in Japan.


That's why I hate environmentalists they have turned the responsible stewardship of the earth into a religion and demand that you bow down at the alter of there particular brand of dogma...

WORD!!!

[CaptMarvel]

I was reading with some interest the "global warming" thread and I have often wondered why this is considered such a divisive subject.  Any time that someone mentions anything about living "sustainably" in any way, shape, or form.  He or she is labeled a tree-hugger, liberal, hippie, etc. etc. etc.  Personally, I like the thought of decreasing the size of my "footprint" on the planet.  I have found that making a conscious effort to do so has not only given me a sense of satisfaction, but it has also made me healthier and made my life a little less expensive.  Here are some of the things I've done.

1.  I have made it a point to throw on a packpack and ride a bike for any errands less than five miles.  This saves me gas, makes me healthier, and keeps some pollutants out of the air.

2.  I buy locally grown fruits and vegetables (usually organic) at farmer's markets.  That means less fuel used to transport the food AND it supports local farmers.

3.  I only buy meat that is raised locally or regionally.  I try to limit my fish intake to farm raised fish unless it's a special occasion.  Hopefully, if enough people do that, overfishing will be reduced.

4.  Next year, I'll be switching my hopelessly outdated HVAC system for a VERY high efficiency very.  Right now, I keep my thermostat at 65 degrees in winter, and 78 degrees in summer.  Going from 70 to 65 degrees in winter save me RIDICULOUS amounts of money.

5.  When I go shopping for more than just a couple of things, I take my own bags instead of using the paper or plastic bags at the store.

6.  I car-pool to work.

There are other things I do, but this proves that you don't have to be radical about things.  I just can't understand why this type of thing gets you labeled a liberal radical whacko.

I've got no problem in anyone doing what they think is better for the planet, I just dont think the govt needs to try and make everyone think a certain way. You are right, it is healthier and probably better for all, but dont order me to not burn my fireplace with trees I cut down on my property and make me drive a subcompact if I want to burn the tires with my 440. Keep it up, I enjoy clean air and hiking and depleting the high mountain lakes of their tasty fish. Just be fair to others and their un environmental ways. I also dont think the planets ice caps (and many scientists agree for those who put all trust in them) are melting or the air hopelessly polluted beyond repair.

[2Gunz]

Things start at the top and trickle down.

Ever follow a Bus in LA?  *cough cough*

And give me a few thousand years to find the subway......

And the thousands of air pollution except government vehicles.....



In order to make a population follow the government needs to be seen in action

taking action. Im sure the EPA does great things and we would prolly be screwed without them.

But I have never talked to, meet, or seen somebody from the EPA. Nor do I have any first hand

knowledge of what they are doing. So to me and the majority of the population its just another

money whole with no bottom.


Get me some alternative fuel stations and a game plan and I might just jump on the band wagon.

Untill then why fight the system?


And lastly and prolly the biggest problem. We as humans deal with fear and definites very well.

And would be and maybes or could happen not so well.

So tell us the world will end next week at noon unless we recycle, well we will recycle like crazy.

Tell us the world will end sometime thousands of years from now....maybe.

I think you get where Im going with that.

[bull]

"In order to make a population follow the government needs to be seen in action..."

I disagree. In order to make a population follow their lead the environmentalists need to make it worth our while. Don't threaten us, scare us or force us out of careers they don't think are beneficial to their narrow-minded agenda. They need to focus on viable solutions to these so-called emergencies rather than continue to point the finger. If they would stop crying about all the evils in the world and focus on creating inexpensive solutions to the problems, people would flock in droves to their doorstep.

That's the funny thing about liberal-minded environmentalists. They'll go on and on about how the religious right judges everyone and tries to make them believe as they do and act as they do when in fact the environmentalists are doing exactly that themselves, and using much dirtier tactics. Burning logging equipment, damaging SUVs, tree-sitting, breaking into mink farms, spiking trees, spray-painting fur coats, etc., etc.

[rare69]

I was born, raised and still live in the logging capitol of the world.on the Olympic peninsula in washington state. my great grandfather was a logger my grandfather was a logger and dad is still a logger and i have spent my entire life in the woods. and i have seen hundred acre clearcuts turn into beautiful stands of timber in just my short stay on this planet. and you want to meet someone who really cares about the environment,the timber the animals and just about everything that lives in the woods, talk to a logger who lives and feeds his family by the well being of the land. it is a very renewable resource.

[dkn1997]

They would not bother me so much if they were not so full of shit.  The ones in the forefront are getting rich and famous like al gore, all the while kicking back in his McMansion using his billion btu's of energy, what a hypocrite. 

These Hollywood types who are now championing the enviroment and making the rest of us feel guilty, what a joke.  How many Hummer Limos took these aholes their precious academy awards?  How about 10 or these pricks piling out of a limo saying "we carpooled" I must have missed that in the paper the next day.  So a few guys drove in a prious (sp)?  so what.  I bet al gores suit was sewn by some phillipino kid making 2 bucks a day in a factory that probably dumps toxins right into the damn street. 

I will believe these other countries are "cleaning up" when I see it.  know how you will know?  their crap won't be as cheap anymore because they will have to comply with the same laws we do....I don't see that anytime soon.  maybe at some point, but I think it will be a while.

Same group of turds that used to fly the concorde burning ungodly amounts of fuel so they can go party with the Europeans a little quicker. 

[Big Lebowski]

I was reading with some interest the "global warming" thread and I have often wondered why this is considered such a divisive subject.  Any time that someone mentions anything about living "sustainably" in any way, shape, or form.  He or she is labeled a tree-hugger, liberal, hippie, etc. etc. etc.  Personally, I like the thought of decreasing the size of my "footprint" on the planet.  I have found that making a conscious effort to do so has not only given me a sense of satisfaction, but it has also made me healthier and made my life a little less expensive.  Here are some of the things I've done.

1.  I have made it a point to throw on a packpack and ride a bike for any errands less than five miles.  This saves me gas, makes me healthier, and keeps some pollutants out of the air.

2.  I buy locally grown fruits and vegetables (usually organic) at farmer's markets.  That means less fuel used to transport the food AND it supports local farmers.

3.  I only buy meat that is raised locally or regionally.  I try to limit my fish intake to farm raised fish unless it's a special occasion.  Hopefully, if enough people do that, overfishing will be reduced.

4.  Next year, I'll be switching my hopelessly outdated HVAC system for a VERY high efficiency very.  Right now, I keep my thermostat at 65 degrees in winter, and 78 degrees in summer.  Going from 70 to 65 degrees in winter save me RIDICULOUS amounts of money.

5.  When I go shopping for more than just a couple of things, I take my own bags instead of using the paper or plastic bags at the store.

6.  I car-pool to work.

There are other things I do, but this proves that you don't have to be radical about things.  I just can't understand why this type of thing gets you labeled a liberal radical whacko.

  Your efforts towards..."decreasing the size of my "footprint" on the planet" are noble my friend, but what you don't understand is that your Charger is a "GIANT" carbon footstep. The card carrying enviro-whack job commies at the Sierra club consider your Charger enemy #1.
      But smashing your Charger in the car crusher is not enough for the Tree hugging Kyoto treaty lovers, they absolutely will not be satisfied untill you are living in a Tee-Pee with no heat, no car, and no job. Those three things involve Co2 emissions which we can't have.

     Liberal radical whackos burn down car dealerships, ski resorts, condo projects, and they want to tear down America. THAT's what causes the "hostility towards environmentalism"

                   In 1974 these same card carrying commie tree huggers said "global cooling" was coming to freeze us all, now they say the opposite. They need to make up their minds.

[dodgecharger-fan]

I didn't read the whole thread - just the first post. To repsond:

I don't think anyone would argue that anything you've listed is a bad idea.
I'll bet there's nothing else you could mention along the same line of thinking that anyone would think is bad.

Saving energy and reducing pollution are damn good ideas.
Doing things to make yourself healthier is even better.

I don't see any of those things as envrionmentalist though. Good for the environment: YES!

And environmentalism in as much as it's the study of and promotion of awareness of the envronment, is not a bad thing.

I think the hostility is directed more at the alarmist tactics and those propogating them.
The extreme measures that are seen as the only solution just don't make sense in too many cases - and it's not always about money. (An electric car takes more energy to design, develop, produce, operate, maintain and dispose of than a normal gasoline powered engine.)
So, if it doesn't make sense, then why do it?If there is a clear cost/benefit statement, then people are more apt to listen. And by benefit, I don't mean monetary return.
That's the argument against the alarmists.

Your list: makes sense. A lot more people should do things like that. (I'll bet the temperature of the planet still goes up though - or down.. and then up again.... )

I just did number 4.
I live in a fruitbelt, so number 2 is easy - except in the winter. So, I have to buy fruit and veggies form Chile or California.
Number 1 is a priority for us - mainly for the health benefits, mind you.
I never gave 3 much of a thought. But I like the idea. I'll have to look into it.
5 sometimes...
6 Can't really do it. I'm either working from home (most foten) or driving to and from meetings. I do often pick up colleagues and we ride together, though.