Chrysler to cut 13,000 jobs

[DC_1]

Wonder how long before the Germans dump it.............and how long before the Chinese pick it up to give themselves legitimacy in the North American market.

[PocketThunder]

They are trying to cut costs down $1000 on average for each vehicle.

[hemigeno]

This is big news around here, since yesterday it was reported that the Fenton Asembly Plant #2 (one of two plants at the Fenton, MO site, and currently producing pickup trucks) will be shut down.  2,300 +/- people will lose their jobs in Q3-2008.     This is after the local taxing districts gave millions in tax breaks to DCX to get them to keep investing in the Fenton plants.  They're supposedly investing $1Bil in Plant #1 (makes minivans) for upgrades, etc.  We'll see if they hold true to their word.

**Edit** Just read a news report about the layoff anouncement.  According to that report, they are only losing a shift at the Fenton truck plant.  Better news than closing the whole plant, but still not great for some folks.

[twilt]

And that trend will continue until the UAW and the manufacturers re-negotiate post employment benefit packages.  Its really not rocket science to understand. Most companies no longer offer traditional retirement pensions plans. 401ks are the way it works now. The manufacturers saddled
with antique retirement plans will continue to slash domestic jobs, move production out of country, and outsource when possible.

[Charger-Bodie]

what the need to do is det rid of alot of the managment types that earn 350,000 a year and stop blaming it on the guy actually building the cars way too many overpaid fatcats

[69Chrgr]

And that trend will continue until the UAW and the manufacturers re-negotiate post employment benefit packages.  Its really not rocket science to understand. Most companies no longer offer traditional retirement pensions plans. 401ks are the way it works now. The manufacturers saddled
with antique retirement plans will continue to slash domestic jobs, move production out of country, and outsource when possible.

You nailed that one down to a T. The UAW workers are the only employees I know where people pushing brooms make 25 bucks an hour or more. If the UAW doesn't change their "you owe me" attitude, GM, Ford and the current Chrysler(what's left) will go by the wayside.

[Big Lebowski]

What the auto industry needs is a $4000 tariff on each Toyota. Why not? They tariff our cars in Japan & China, screw 'em. Secondly, build a better looking Charger, in fact build a retro 2 door Charger like the Challenger and we'll buy one.

[hemihead]

And that trend will continue until the UAW and the manufacturers re-negotiate post employment benefit packages.  Its really not rocket science to understand. Most companies no longer offer traditional retirement pensions plans. 401ks are the way it works now. The manufacturers saddled
with antique retirement plans will continue to slash domestic jobs, move production out of country, and outsource when possible.

You nailed that one down to a T. The UAW workers are the only employees I know where people pushing brooms make 25 bucks an hour or more. If the UAW doesn't change their "you owe me" attitude, GM, Ford and the current Chrysler(what's left) will go by the wayside.

So the  traditional retirement plans are bad? What happens when one of these companies mismanage your 401K investment?
And I don't think that the antique retirement plans are the reason for ' slashing domestic jobs,move production out of the country,and outsource when possible'.Try just good old fashioned greed.
And UAW workers making $25 pushing brooms?How many UAW workers do you know personally that do that or is that just the same thing that has be said over and over the last 30 years?How many white collar workers get their nice salary and benefits for playing on the internet everday instead of doing their job?Truth hurts....

[bmoparmofo]

Hey, you to see what problems are like?....Try Michigan.....Detroit, the motor city....more like the unemployment city, Its really a mess, we are in a tie if not for the worst economy in the states. The housing prices are down $20,000 from when I bought in 2003 Not a good time to be an automotive driven economy city.I hope someone figures it out.

[69DodgeCharger]

I would agree that the Big 3 are bloated with way to many management and administrative type employees, but it is that way in almost all corporations. The culture and politics of the corporate world protect them only second to profits and shareholder demands. Until shareholders demand that these corporations trim the fat in the management ranks and get rid of the ridiculously overpaid top officers these problems will continue.

I also would agree that the UAW is pretty much deadweight on the industry at this point. They have long outlived their usefulness. I worked for them for 9 years and they are a joke. They are pretty much non existent if you have a problem, but they are right there to get those dues, or give your money to political candidates and causes that you might not agree with. They always have money for new offices or to send committee members to conferences and seminars to get drunk for a week or two under the guise of training and education.

As far as tariffs go, write your congressman. maybe you can pay him more than the corporate lobbyists and convince him to vote for them, but I doubt it. And besides at this point Toyota and Honda might be making a better product at a competitive price than their Big 3 counterparts. I know one experience with a Big 3 service department to try and get a warranty problem fixed is enough to cure a person from ever thinking about buying a new car again, not to mention the "other" brands hold their resale value better, are more reliable and get better gas mileage. So who's really to blame? My 92 Toyota Tercel is perhaps the best vehicle I have ever owned. I paid $200 for it, have put over 20,000 miles on it, it gets 35 MPG and I have never put a dime into it other than gas and oil. I would get in it and drive it to California right now without a worry. I never trusted my new Dodge pickups, or my current Ford Ranger to do that!

[hemihead]

But still amazing how everyone buys a classic AMERICAN Musclecar.Why isn't everyone colllecting classic Jap cars if they are sooo much better? hmmm...

[69DodgeCharger]

But still amazing how everyone buys a classic AMERICAN Musclecar.Why isn't everyone colllecting classic Jap cars if they are sooo much better? hmmm...

What's buying a 30-40 year old musclecar have to do with making a product that people will buy, and actually making the tough choices that are necessary to keep your company in business? Let me think about it.....nothing. These are "toys" to the majority of owners. Very few of them are investment grade items. Do you think the Big 3's problems just popped up overnight? They didn't. They created most of their own problems, Unfortunately it will always be the people at the bottom that suffer for the people at the tops mismanagement and mistakes. Which is what we are seeing now. As long as our Gov't is bought and paid for and nobody revolts against corporate greed this problem is only going to get worse.

[charge-it]

They are trying to cut costs down $1000 on average for each vehicle.

[charge-it]

And that trend will continue until the UAW and the manufacturers re-negotiate post employment benefit packages.  Its really not rocket science to understand. Most companies no longer offer traditional retirement pensions plans. 401ks are the way it works now. The manufacturers saddled
with antique retirement plans will continue to slash domestic jobs, move production out of country, and outsource when possible.

All the while management collects outrageous salaries and bonuses. It`s not the workers pensions and benefits it`s corporate greed plain and simple. The very people that made these companies rich are now being asked to give back what they negotiated and earned in good faith. Funny how a company like Toyota and Honda can move here, build  modern facilities. pay great wages, and stlll turn a big profit...The answer isn`t to move the jobs overseas.....

[ChargerST]

What the auto industry needs is a $4000 tariff on each Toyota. Why not? They tariff our cars in Japan & China, screw 'em. Secondly, build a better looking Charger, in fact build a retro 2 door Charger like the Challenger and we'll buy one.

That's why most companies like Toyota or Honda have plants in the US..a tariff would only hurt imported cars not those built in the US (no matter if it's a Japanese, German or US brand). And doesn't the WTO under US leadership fight tariffs around the globe? Wouldn't do much for the credibility of the US if they'd impose taxes or tariffs on Japanese cars..

[41husk]

Geno, there was a guy that worked at the plant in Fenton that made mini vans,  He lived out by six flags.  He had mopars all over the place, I used to get parts from him.  Do you have a name or any way to contact?

[twilt]

So the  traditional retirement plans are bad? What happens when one of these companies mismanage your 401K investment?
And I don't think that the antique retirement plans are the reason for ' slashing domestic jobs,move production out of the country,and outsource when possible'.Try just good old fashioned greed.
And UAW workers making $25 pushing brooms?How many UAW workers do you know personally that do that or is that just the same thing that has be said over and over the last 30 years?How many white collar workers get their nice salary and benefits for playing on the internet everday instead of doing their job?Truth hurts....

I don`t necessarily think that the traditional retirement plans are BAD , they are obviously great for the worker. However, they are antique models in the modern business sector. Very few companies still offer them. They put the companies that offer them at a large disadvantage in being competitive. The traditional retirement plans are a HUGE financial burden on the companies. That burden gets passed on to their customers in the form of higher prices on every vehicle that they sell. Why do you think foreign manufacturers are building assembly plants in the U.S. while at the same time domestic manufacturers are closing facilities, moving manufacturing across the border, and outsourcing as much as possible?  The foreign manufacturers building plants here pay competitive wages to actively working employees, they just dont have to pay a bunch of $$ for the health care and pensions of thousands and thousands of retirees. Once you retire...they don`t owe you a dime. As far as companies mismanaging 401k`s, laws and practices have changed. Typically an outside company is running your 401k and YOU the worker have control over the how/where/what that your $$ are invested in.

[TeeWJay426]

What the auto industry needs is a $4000 tariff on each Toyota. Why not? They tariff our cars in Japan & China, screw 'em. Secondly, build a better looking Charger, in fact build a retro 2 door Charger like the Challenger and we'll buy one.

That's why most companies like Toyota or Honda have plants in the US..a tariff would only hurt imported cars not those built in the US (no matter if it's a Japanese, German or US brand). And doesn't the WTO under US leadership fight tariffs around the globe? Wouldn't do much for the credibility of the US if they'd impose taxes or tariffs on Japanese cars..

And curiously enough, they do it WITHOUT the UAW.... and don't want them in there. Neither do the employees... they are kept happy without them. Amazing what a change in philosophy and management style can accomplish.

So the traditional retirement plans are bad? What happens when one of these companies mismanage your 401K investment?

Companies don't manage the 401K plans of the employees- most of them are not involved at all. Mine for instance is entirely run by Fidelity Investments. That's one of the big advantages for companies utilizing them in the first place.

[jmanscharger]

Wonder how long before the Germans dump it.............and how long before the Chinese pick it up to give themselves legitimacy in the North American market.

Dr. Z was in a story this morning that quoted him as saying they may sell, didn't mention to whom yet. My wife quipped that they bought it and ran it into the ground.

[DC_1]

A couple thoughts

1. Unions of yesteryear servered their purpose and helped to not only improve employee wages and treatment but also create the wealth of the middle class. However, modern companies in todays world realize their best asset is their people. If they want to attract the best they can they have to give them a good wage and comfortable working environment. If you are good at what you do you excel in modern companies of today not based on years served but instead by your capabilities and contributions. Unions today appear to nurture the "Us" vs. "The Company" attitude and seem to protect those who are the worst at their job and are cancerous to the attitude of others around them.Unions have also realized that in todays world of "Just In Time" inventory the threat of a strike will cripple a company in no time and theefore they can blackmail the company into giving them ridiculous increases that mortgage the company to a point that is unsustainable.
Do executives get too much?....maybe they do......but, the life span of an executive isn't very long. Even in the Automotive industry. They are not paid large sums of money for long if they are not competent at what they were hired to do.By contrast a union worker is protected by the Union no matter how bad he may be at his job so long as he pays his dues every month.

2. The state of the North American Automobile industry has been sliding for some time. The fundamental problem i believe is the industry is fragmenting and they are too big for the market share they now have. They are unable to keep their former market share because as it has been said before they don't seem to build cars people want to buy. They also don't seem to be very good at competing on a global basis. They don't build cars that the world wants to buy. They seem to cater to what the Amercan consumer wants yet they seem to miss the mark there as well. This is what the Japanese have seemed to figure out.

3. Cuts backs and downsizing will continue. Companies need to continue to increase proffit and reduce cost and product price. Everytime you go into Walmart and want to buy that 55" TV for $900 think of how unaffordable it would be if it was made in the US by unionized employees. We all want modern technology, conveniences, and products at affordable prices. Companies want profits. The assembly of an automobile and the making of its parts I believe will eventually be pushed to low wage countries just like the textile industries, the electronics industries, and many others.

[hemigeno]

Geno, there was a guy that worked at the plant in Fenton that made mini vans,  He lived out by six flags.  He had mopars all over the place, I used to get parts from him.  Do you have a name or any way to contact?

No, I don't know anyone from that particular area into Mopars, sorry.  Only guy around here that fits the description is from the Catawissa/Robertsville area.  Is Clay Kossuth the guy you're looking for?  He retired from Chrysler a good while back, so if it's someone who currently works at Plant #1 I won't have a clue who that is.

Oh, and it was announced yesterday that it is the minivan plant is the one losing a shift, not the truck plant.  There'll be a big battle for the remaining positions, with seniority being the deciding factor as to who goes or stays. 

I also found it interesting how the UAW issued a statement something to the effect that their membership is not responsible for the losses at Chrysler, but the workmen are the ones who have to suffer.  Nothing but playing the blame game, which is a total waste of time.  Their view is pretty much that if you are a member of the UAW, you are entitled to a lifetime of income from that manufacturer (even after you retire), despite what the economy does or what governmental regulations do to choke off a thriving industry.  For a lot of these large industrial/manufacturing entities, the days of expecting an employee to do 8 hours work for 8 hours pay is something of a novelty.  If you spend any amount of time talking to some of these union factory workers, it is appalling to find out how little work they actually have to do.  Some positions do require a guy to work, but those are the least sought-after positions in the whole plant.

That's one thing I like about being involved with the Carpenter's union (my company employs Carpenters and Laborers).  No seniority considerations, etc.  If you can't do the job and pull your weight, you're dead wood and I don't have to keep anyone like that around.   

[Brock Samson]

great info.. about a bad situation..
but it's sure nice to read some informed opinions and of personal experiance... insteread of inflamed retoric and fear inspired dogma.

Yesa 401 Ks seem to be the deal right now if avail. will any of our supposed future social security or pensions exist in ten years?..
so you support yourself and insure your own future, that's as it should be, is it not?..
I wonder though,.. what is happening to the middle class?.. we seem to be growing the upper and lower classes makeing for a truly shocking disparity... downtown san fran has 2 million dollor two bedroom condos with homeless sleeping in the alley behind... who may have once been an assembly line workers with a familys or might be a single moms without an education...
  and the cost of education seems to be what these "White" collor workers are being compinsated for, problem with that is  the "Operating Systems" are being phased in at an ever increasing rate,.. so for example what you went to school for years to master might be obsolete in a few years... or a robot may do it...
  ...sorry for my ramble, I was invested emotionly in the old Chysler Corp and mourn it's passing...

[greenpigs]

I might buy a Nitro if they offer employee pricing to the public, thats how I would help.

[runningman]

Just had to put my 2 cents here.  I work at the Mack II engine plant that builds the 3.7 V-6.  I am an electrician in the dept that machines blocks, bedplates, cranks and rods.  I was transferred here after being at the mound road engine plant that has been closed.  I have only been with Chrysler for 12 years but have seen huge changes.  We have already adopted all the new practices that DCX has asked the other engine plants to do if they want to get new products.  These include lean/smart manufacturing, tpm, and we are the first and only so far to work the 3-2-120 work schedule.  We were pretty much forced to adopt these new practices but everyone has done so with no problems.  What this amounts to is about half the workforce doing the same amount of work.  Right now we are pretty much running as lean as possible, we still have janitors and what not that are making good money but this has been cut way back and I have heard that this will be outsourced soon.  I will admit I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I first started Chrysler as a production working, it was about a year after I got out of the Air Force and was pretty much shocked to see all the people sitting, sleeping, doing drugs and pretty much everything you could think of.  This has all but been eliminated (at least at our plant).  The new workforce has alot more responsibilities and I am really encouraged from what I am seeing at our plant.  Now here is the problem, our plant has only been opened 6 yrs or so and we are already scheduled to be closed in 2011 as the company goes to the new v-6 world engine that is being built jointly by chrysler and some other foreign automakers.  These plants will not be chrysler, they are GEMA.  So we will pretty much be out of jobs.  We have gotten numerous awards and recognition for being a world class plant and we are right behind toyota.......Just goes to show that it doesn't really matter how productive you are or how well you do your jobs.  I am curious after reading some of these posts, do the foreign automakers not have any pension plans at all?  I do agree, the government should have leveled the playing field right from the beginning with tariffs and what not.  lIt's probably too late to do anything about that but some kind of national health care would help everyone........

[Neal_J]

The sad reality seems to be that for decades the US automakers were poisoned by inept management and overpaid unskilled workers that we shielded by greedy unions.  That's not to say there weren't good hard-working people in the mix but there are a lot of jackoffs.  This problem is now compounded by aggressive Asian car companies that are better- managed who work collaboratively with skilled workers, have a large crop of unskilled workers who are glad to bolt bumpers on for $1/hour and are not encumbered by unions.  Further, these competitors do not have life-long pension and medical liabilities for their former workers.   

Is it really that hard to see why the wheels are coming off DCX, GM and Ford?