Shooting in downtown SLC mall

[GTX]

Have you guys heard about the shooting here tonight?

It's in Trolley Square Mall which is a boutique mall built in the old trolley barns here in town. A bunch of stores and restaurants of course.

Anyway, the facts aren't in yet but apparently some guy walked in ala Columbine style ( trench coat, shotgun and backpack of ammo) with a shotgun and began shooting. It looks right now from very preliminary reports on tv to be about 5-10 dead including the shooter and more hospitalized. He just walked around shooting and reloading and there were reports of as many as 30 rounds shot.
They don't know if the shooter offed himself but I suspect it was one of the cops they said came in right after it began.


Weird thing is that we were going to go there and eat either at the Hard Rock or the Desert Edge bar and grill.   We go down there fairly often.
We decided to hang out at home instead.....guess it's a good thing maybe.


Maybe Charger Fan or one of the other locals will have some other news? 
We'll see what set the psycho off maybe. My brother in law is SWAT for County Sheriff here, maybe he knows.

[ChargerSG]

A dude who does things like that deserves to get shoot by the cops, if he survive i hope they fry him

[Shakey]

 

[Ponch ®]

that's why I live in L.A....less violence.

[Charger_Fan]

That was all over the local radio news this morning.
Here's one of many links for anyone interested; http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_044105216.html

There's sure no shortage of whacko's these days.

[Brock Samson]

18 yr old...  damn!

[d72hemi]

I thought moving to UT would have been safer than So Cal. All I have heard was in online news pages. I beleive there is 5 dead. At least the shooter is no longer walking around.

Ian

[Charger1973]

 

[jordyjim]

gta its worlwide news! ime in the uk and i have heard about it..jim

[Jon Smith]

just been posted on moparts that one of the victims was the daughter of one of the mopars at the strip organisers

[GTX]

I knew it had to be his daughter.

Charger Fan, is it Steve?

[Charger_Fan]

Yes, it's Steve's daughter.  http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/moparsofutah/vpost?id=1701130 (looks like someone else posted that on his screen name)
His ex wife is still in the hospital.

Steve is one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) Mopar musclecar supporters in our community, has been for years. He works in a local dealership & is tirelessly helping out fellow Mopar folks, along with arranging to clear off the whole dealership lot one weekend a year to hold a Mopar car show.

This shooting tragedy was not only something that happened locally, but also involved one of our own. It's a sad, sad deal.

[Johnny SixPack]

My prayers go to the families of the victims and to all involved in this.

I just can't fathom what would cause someone to decide to walk into a crowded public area and begin randomly killing people.

If you're that keen on dying, just go out into the woods and off yourself.

[GTX]

I met Steve in 1979 and talked Mopar with him, I had a '68 R/T and a '73 Charger SE. I think he was still in high school then and I have known him since although I haven't spoken to him in a few years, too busy. For years I used to buy a bunch of parts and get info from Steve when he worked at Hinckley Dodge.
It was also Steve who in '89 told me where to find my '70 GTX that I still have now after I sold it in '84 and regretted it.

Steve is one of the strongest and certainly one of the most known names in the Mopar community here.

Real bummer is all I can say. I can imagine how devastated Steve is over the loss of his daughter and his wife being injured. 
It's very hard not to feel anger towards the loser who did it but I guess he obviously had some real problems of his own.

We also had the guy up the street from me who got hit by a drunken kid and lost his wife and two kids ( half the family) last weekend.

I guess we just have to let God sort it out.

[Brock Samson]

you would be amazed at how many folks die in stupid stuff that don't even make the news or are simply a short report item...
a little novelty will boost it to the headlines, but plenty of folks are wasted in malicious murders and simpliy moronic traffic accidents every day...
  once you realize this you can use compassion to fight back against violence. It's better then joining them.. 

[Big Lebowski]

Here's what NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you...The 18 year old shooter is a Bosnian Islamo fascist, you know from the religion of peace. But since he wasn't chanting to Allah when he killed those people, we can't call it a terrorist attack. Bull$hit!!!

[d72hemi]

Here's what NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you...The 18 year old shooter is a Bosnian Islamo fascist, you know from the religion of peace. But since he wasn't chanting to Allah when he killed those people, we can't call it a terrorist attack. Bull$hit!!!

I would not say "NO one in the news has the BALLS to tell you", http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=892975 . After I read that a while ago, I thought of that possibility also, but I will reserve my final opinion until after the investigation details have been released. Remember, just because someone of a particular faith commits murder, does not mean that it was because of their religion. Over all It pisses me off. I am also a member on the Mopars of Utah forum, although I have only been able to attend one of their monthly meeting, due to my work schedule. I could not imagine the pain I would feel if I lost my daughter, especially in that manner.

Ian

[GTX]

I know a Muslim family from Bosnia here who live very near to that kids home. They are very poor and very, very humble people. They are bewildered and confused by America and now very scared too in light of 9-11.
They see people like probably 99% of us in here with education, multiple cars, trips to foreign lands and plenty of food to eat and they have none of that as a rule. Most have been severely traumatized. Some have seen their fathers murdered in front of their eyes, some were raped and some never found out what happened to their families.
I'm certainly not defending this creep, it's not for me to judge or defend, that's God's work but I simply try to understand the motives. Frankly, yes, one of the first things to pop to my mind was a religion issue but I'm really not too sure. The issues are much deeper.
In my experience these people are mostly very good people who want very much to fit in among us and yet are very frightened of us. These are not the stereotypical radical Islamic people you see or think of, at least not as I've seen them. On the contrary, most are very gentle and shy people and very ,very generous when they let you in.

I'll tell you how we met the young girl we know and her family. We were up in the canyons here having a little picnic and roasting marshmallows - it was Fall.
This young girl kept staring over at us for quite some time and then out of the blue walked over and sat by us and began talking to us. She asked what we were eating, she had never seen them like that. The whole family was very curious but afraid to approach (remember that these people are intensely private and understandably so after what they've seen and been through). We invited them over but they were very timid so the girl asked us over,we told her that we would only go if the parents said we were welcome.

Well, we went over and they fed us their Bosnian food until we were about to burst. They wanted us to dance with them but there was no way I'd do that.
Michelle, my other half danced with the girls elderly father who with her brother were all the males that were left of the family. The man was spared because he was old and rather frail and the boy because he was so young.
Later we went to their home (which most of us could never call an acceptable home although it was very clean) out on the North West (poor) side where they have all been located by the government ( I could NEVER live there). We took the young girl to a movie which she had also never seen in the U.S and she was in awe at what we take for granted!

No, not all of these people are Muslim radicals by any means. Most(99.9999%) are simply poor, confused people trying to make sense of this life and this country and wanting to fit in. I suspect that this kids problems may more closely be linked to an inability to fit in with us and\or his own personal problems. I would not be surprised to see autopsy results shedding some light on it too.

Now, on the other hand, YES I am very bothered by this kids actions. It happened in my town in one of the places I hang out in and he killed the daughter of a man I've known for nearly 30 years.

Let's please just try to keep the blaming and speculation down until the facts are in and even then it won't bring these people back or undo the scars on this city.


-Dave

P.S

If anyone wants to be of help to some of these people I'd highly recommend finding a Bosnian refugee family ( I'm sure there are many others too but I'm speaking of this group) and befriending - adopt them. They are located pretty much everywhere and no, these are not illegals!
Help them fit in and show them that we are the good people that they hope and think us to be. I guarantee you that you will probably gain much more than you give out and you will walk away with a new understanding of what these people have endured both at home and here. You will also learn to be VERY thankful for being an American and living where you do regardless of how tough you think you have it.
I ran across this family by accident by the girl approaching us and we're glad that we got to know them, 'our girl' is graduating from high school now! 

[d72hemi]

Very well put GTX! I have had the opportunity to become friends with many people from many differant cultures, and I have found what you said the be true.

[Charger_Fan]

Damn, now I can't post my "Islam is a dynamite religion" sticker, without feeling bad.

I agree, that was well put, Dave.
I hope they can get to the bottom of his actual motive sometime soon, to end the speculation. The local morning radio shows are sure getting some heated callers calling in.

[Brock Samson]

GTX that was a GREAT post!
thank you!

[Big Lebowski]

I know a Muslim family from Bosnia here who live very near to that kids home. They are very poor and very, very humble people. They are bewildered and confused by America and now very scared too in light of 9-11.
They see people like probably 99% of us in here with education, multiple cars, trips to foreign lands and plenty of food to eat and they have none of that as a rule. Most have been severely traumatized. Some have seen their fathers murdered in front of their eyes, some were raped and some never found out what happened to their families.
I'm certainly not defending this creep, it's not for me to judge or defend, that's God's work but I simply try to understand the motives. Frankly, yes, one of the first things to pop to my mind was a religion issue but I'm really not too sure. The issues are much deeper.
In my experience these people are mostly very good people who want very much to fit in among us and yet are very frightened of us. These are not the stereotypical radical Islamic people you see or think of, at least not as I've seen them. On the contrary, most are very gentle and shy people and very ,very generous when they let you in.

I'll tell you how we met the young girl we know and her family. We were up in the canyons here having a little picnic and roasting marshmallows - it was Fall.
This young girl kept staring over at us for quite some time and then out of the blue walked over and sat by us and began talking to us. She asked what we were eating, she had never seen them like that. The whole family was very curious but afraid to approach (remember that these people are intensely private and understandably so after what they've seen and been through). We invited them over but they were very timid so the girl asked us over,we told her that we would only go if the parents said we were welcome.

Well, we went over and they fed us their Bosnian food until we were about to burst. They wanted us to dance with them but there was no way I'd do that.
Michelle, my other half danced with the girls elderly father who with her brother were all the males that were left of the family. The man was spared because he was old and rather frail and the boy because he was so young.
Later we went to their home (which most of us could never call an acceptable home although it was very clean) out on the North West (poor) side where they have all been located by the government ( I could NEVER live there). We took the young girl to a movie which she had also never seen in the U.S and she was in awe at what we take for granted!

No, not all of these people are Muslim radicals by any means. Most(99.9999%) are simply poor, confused people trying to make sense of this life and this country and wanting to fit in. I suspect that this kids problems may more closely be linked to an inability to fit in with us and\or his own personal problems. I would not be surprised to see autopsy results shedding some light on it too.

Now, on the other hand, YES I am very bothered by this kids actions. It happened in my town in one of the places I hang out in and he killed the daughter of a man I've known for nearly 30 years.

Let's please just try to keep the blaming and speculation down until the facts are in and even then it won't bring these people back or undo the scars on this city.


-Dave

P.S

If anyone wants to be of help to some of these people I'd highly recommend finding a Bosnian refugee family ( I'm sure there are many others too but I'm speaking of this group) and befriending - adopt them. They are located pretty much everywhere and no, these are not illegals!
Help them fit in and show them that we are the good people that they hope and think us to be. I guarantee you that you will probably gain much more than you give out and you will walk away with a new understanding of what these people have endured both at home and here. You will also learn to be VERY thankful for being an American and living where you do regardless of how tough you think you have it.
I ran across this family by accident by the girl approaching us and we're glad that we got to know them, 'our girl' is graduating from high school now! 

  And when a nuclear bomb goes off in your city, everybody dies, even the poor Bosnian refugees. It's not about the 99% of peace loving Muslims, it's about the 1% of the Islamo Facsists that are building these nukes right now as we speak. Poof, you lose.

[GTX]

Do I really lose if I'm no longer here to listen to that tripe?


I'm sort of wondering who the fascist is around here...and also maybe more than a little paranoid?
Who is it who sounds like the most likely to to be buying their own trenchcoat about now?


So we should run off all of the immigrants? How many generations?  Who would be next? The blacks, the Jews, Catholics, Baptist, Mormon, how about left handed people or those with blue eyes? I fit into several of those groups and I'm sure many others here do too. Would we be safe in your world?
Where would the paranoia stop?

The FBI said that there is no indication of terror on this and religion didn't play any part in it, just a misguided kid. Was the columbine shooting also a religious issue?
Should we just unleash the stormtroopers now? This is the west, should we saddle up and form a midnight hanging party?
How do you propose to root out the domestic 'American' terrorists who have proven to be more deadly on our own soil?

Thank you for your sensitivity and thoughtful insight. I've tried to be diplomatic on the issue but you my friend are paranoid and full of sh&#, we can agree to disagree.

Maybe it's time to put a lock on this since it's turning volatile and polarizing just like what caused the mall shooting it's self. Most likely people unable or unwilling to communicate and see each other as humans. I'm really sorry that you are unable to accept anyone outside of your narrow band of tolorated people but you are the one who is losing out, certainly not them for knowing you.

BTW,
I really suggest cutting down on your daily intake of talk radio aka redneck radio.

[Big Lebowski]

I guess you don't watch the news...The Pres. of Iran said..."Isreal should be wiped off the map". He also denied the holocaust ever happened. The Pres. of Iran IS the next Hitler, and he IS building a nuclear weapon. Some people CAN'T understand that. Kinda like Neville Chamberlin in 1938, he appeased Hitler untill Hitler bombed his country. History will repeat itself when ignorance ignores the enemy. Remember 9-11.

[19Charger68]

Dave, thank you for your insightful post.  This is a terrible tragedy but your post should remind us that there is good and evil in everyone regardless of their ethnicity.

[GTX]

I guess you don't watch the news...The Pres. of Iran said..."Isreal should be wiped off the map". He also denied the holocaust ever happened. The Pres. of Iran IS the next Hitler, and he IS building a nuclear weapon. Some people CAN'T understand that. Kinda like Neville Chamberlin in 1938, he appeased Hitler untill Hitler bombed his country. History will repeat itself when ignorance ignores the enemy. Remember 9-11.

I agree about history repeating but there is also history in intolorence and the travesties that follow.

By the way, regarding your comment on Israel. I lost most of one side of my family in WWII to Germany and the ovens. Yes, they were German Jews and only a few got out. I take the Iranian president very seriously but I'm not about to get paranoid over it and hate a whole religion or even a country for his remarks.

These people are not Iranian! Not even close, there is a huge difference and not even all Iranians hate the U.S. I used to work with an Iranian girl and her family loves the U.S and are loyal AMERICANS.

The event shows no indication of having anything to do with religion.

Just because a person is Muslim does NOT mean that they are terrorists and it's idiocy and paranoid to think otherwise.
What ever happened to religious tolerance in his country?  I guess you are unaware the there are far more Muslims than us, what aren't they rampaging in the streets? I'll tell you, because most simply don't hate you like you hate and fear them. They don't even care about you!

I knew an Iranian militant here in Utah pre 9-11 and I know how they sound, I tossed his butt out of my house!
He is no longer in the country by the way, we turned him in but it took a while for anyone to catch up with him. He now lives in Germany where he fled post 9-11.
These Bosnian refugees are simple people who want to be invisible and they live in fear because of people like you. They want to work and build a better life and live in peace among us. They don't want to change you nor do they care what religion you are, they just want to live in peace after what they have been through. Mostly, they would like to become Americans and be accepted as such. In my time spent among the Bosnians ( or Iranian) I know they have never once tried to preach to me nor I to them. It just doesn't come up!
My Baptist friends are always trying to push their religion on me....oh no....conspiracy!
The only way that things will ever change is if we can all learn to understand each other. They fear you because you would hurt them as Milosevik did and that could push a kid to retaliate because he wants his family to live in peace without harassment. I'm really not sure though that this kids rampage had anything to do with ethnicity or religion. He was screwed up!
I ask again, were the Columbine kids Muslim? Was that a conspiracy? They were screwed up loners as well.
Do you actually have any evidence to the contrary? Like I said, I've known some of these people and I'm not about to hate all of any group just for fear of a .0001% who MIGHT be planning something.
These shootings don't show any indication of being a terror attack at all and this comes from the Feds.......I guess you also think the feds are bad?
The kids family is as shocked as anyone else.

Read up on the news!

Please do me a favor and unless you can show some non militant delusional mindset and can offer something kind to offer the victims and the city that is stunned by this please keep quiet.  In this battle you seem to be shooting blanks since you have no solid ground at all to base an opinion on and seem to be grasping wildly.
I hold no personal grudges or ill will but this is getting really old and stupid.


Let's have a beer or drink of choice and talk Mopar!

[Big Lebowski]

Your right it wasn't a terrorist attack, and the last muslim who drove his car through and over some college kids while on the phone with the police saying he.."wanted to kill them for Allays revenge"...That wasn't a terrorist attack either? And the Muslim who shot up a jewish center in seattle, well that wasn't a terrorist attack either. Ok I understand, 9-11 was just a mis-understanding, you're right. Ok I'll put my head back in the sand.

  And you'd better keep at least one eye on the Pres. of Iran, because he is a madman, soon to have nuclear weapons.

[GTX]

  

[Big Lebowski]

Ok you win, I'm putting up the white flag.

[CaptMarvel]

So we should run off all of the immigrants? How many generations?  Who would be next? The blacks, the Jews, Catholics, Baptist, Mormon, how about left handed people or those with blue eyes? I fit into several of those groups and I'm sure many others here do too. Would we be safe in your world?
Where would the paranoia stop?

Ok, true, but can we have a little fairness here? I'm left handed and Mormon and dont want to be unfairly persecuted either, but it seems that if any one or few members of a Christian/Jewish faith acting totally independantly of their church leaders, then the entire church is targeted. Because of this modern PC nonsense, we have to take a kid gloves approach if they are Muslim? Sorry, if churches/faiths that have no history of violence are pointed out, Im sure going to take a "profiled" view of ones that are well known for it. If this kid was Islamic, we better pay attention to that. Not fostering hate of any kind here, but if we (Americans) do not take the Muslim/terroist relationship seriously, I shudder to think about the consequences for our future. The majority of them are decent people, but enough rear their ugly head that are not to take notice. Those who ignore it are burying their heads in the sand...

[GTX]

I actually totally agree with you and I agree somewhat with B.L but you need to call it for what it is. We do need to keep a wary eye on it but countered with common sense and not shoot at shadows in the dark. This is called siege mentality and it's very dangerous although somewhat understandable.

They are saying over and over and over that there is no parallel between this kids faith and his actions. The only thing I want to point out is that it's too easy to jump off the deep end in light of current events and place labels that don't belong. During WWII the Japanese and in fact many Asian races were locked up simply for looking Asian and we need to try to prevent that very sad history again.
How about this for profiling?
I know a man in Illinois where I grew up who fought for Germany in WWII. not because he wanted to but because he was forced. He was injured several times by the allies but the minute he got a chance he came here and joined our side and fought for us. Now this man has had to endure comments by other Americans over the years right after the war for being German even though he was on our side! Do you want to keep that alive?

Now, as for being PC, I'm not and never will be but I will try to be diplomatic. There is a difference.  If I really thought that this kids actions were really motivated by Islam then I'd be beating the drum loudly to investigate!

Also, as far as the wacko in Iran goes, I think he is very dangerous and needs to be gone just as much as Bin Laden. He is extremely dangerous but I still don't think that these people belong in the same group as that idiot!
I don't think that the entire populace of Muslims are out to kill all of us Christians or Americans although sometimes I do wonder how deep it goes. I'm just not willing to jump off the deep end and get too excited before there is evidence to support the theory,I guess that's the engineer training in me. To me there is still plenty of evidence that at least right now many Muslims do not hate us. I refuse to hate or harm people just on the suspicion that they may not like me. If I did that I'd become just like that kid and I'd probably come gunning for some of you!


Now, for the facts thus far in the mall case. They DO NOT know the exact cause of the rampage but there is factual evidence that it was not racial or religious.
The kid had a history of pulling knives on people and getting into trouble even when he was young. In fact, he once pulled a knife on a landlord and threatened to kill him and the landlord was a fellow MUSLIM! The kid claimed that he didn't care about anyone.
All of these actions indicate to me a person with deep emotional problems.......just a bad kid so to speak.  It's too easy to place a racial or religion label on the entire thing and feel smug and good about yourself when in fact the kid was most likely really emotionally messed up.  Again, nobody cried anything about religion when the Columbine kids attacked. Maybe because they were 'one of us' and not different?
Now in this city we have people attacking people in the Bosnian community who had nothing to do with it and didn't necessarily even know the kid.
To you Christians out there, would your God or Jesus condone hate or persecution of these people?

I too am Mormon, left handed and have Jewish blood so I've experienced my own discrimination over the years and don't want it to happen to others. You know how misunderstood Mormons can be to certain people.
All I ask if for people to be rational and think straight and not allow emotion to take over especially with a lack of facts. If and when the radicals get here you will see me with my gun in my hands but not until then

Not that I mind the discussion but I think this thread has gotten off the intended topic and has become too religious in nature. It's supposed to be about a tragedy regardless of motives. Knowing the motives will not bring the victims back.

[Big Lebowski]

                         ******News flash for GTX******
  Today, a Muslim cabbie ran over two of his passengers in Tn. They had a RELIGIOUS arguement about how Muslims want their "Sharia law" (Islamo Facsism for those of you in Rio Linda) everywhere in the world. After paying the cabbie, the cab driver ran them over, one in critical condition.
     And of course, by YOUR thinking, this too was not a terrorist attack. Right. Ya ok. Mr. Chamberlin, it's 1938 all over again.

[Johnny SixPack]

Dude, I've stuck with for yah on more than one occassion, but man, you gotta let this one go.

The kid had a prior history of violence and said he didn't give a flying &^*% if people lived or died.

And just cause some crazy @$$ed Muslim cabbie was involved what turned into a deadly arguement about Muslim law doesn't mean d*ck in the SLC case.

I'm not saying that Muslim radicals aren't a problem, but every Muslim isn't a radical.

That'd be like saying every Californian is a Leftist Commie Pinko Scumbag (simply because 9 times out of 10 those are the ones that get the press - sorry to all non-Leftist Commie Pinko Scumbag Californians ).

Dude, we could go on and on about Islam being a violent entity, but for Troy's sake, and the sake of those who died in that tragic event, let it go.

[Big Lebowski]

I can let it go. I'm just concerned that San Diego (my home) is an easy terrorist target, we have nuclear flat tops, a nuke sub base, etc, I'm concerned for that 1% of our enemy who, some day will have the nuclear capacity to take out an American city. You can't say our enemies don't want to nuke an American city, they chant "Death to America" every day. CBS's 60 minutes reported that the soviets are "missing" 16 "suitcase nukes"  Where are they? Maybe these city destroying nukes are on their way to America.
           Hopefully I'm wrong, but we can't turn a blind eye to this kind of hatred towards Americans.

[Big Lebowski]

  Sorry GTX, I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I don't want to be right on this one, because if/when a nuke goes off in America, we ALL lose. Johnny's right, I take this stuff too seriously, but this war is real. Some would say WWlll. I'm done.

[GTX]

I don't take it too personally, it's only the internet after all and besides, everyone has a right to their opinions. I may disagree partially with you but I will not begrudge you your right to have your views.
We agree in principle but not on how far to take it or what to do about it. I may not come off like it but I feel very strongly about the issues but I'm just not about to join a lynching party and I try to keep most of those views more private since most don't want to hear mine as they don't want to hear yours.
I too worry about missing nukes, radicals who would kill us and many other issues including No. Korea and Iran but home grown terror worries me more and hate and intolerance is the foundation of that. We have kids who have to go to school and worry about being killed whether by a religious zealot or by some kid who is just pissed off. Frankly I'm more worried right now about people like the KKK, Neo Nazi's and home style Christian fundamentalists and I'll wager my car that they are some among us here.
If we aren't secure at home from our own then how can we secure ourselves in the world? I digress though, I just don't think this is the place for me to air my religious or political views, it's too polarizing and we're all supposed to be here out of mutual love of Mopars.


The bottom line is that a kid went berserk and shot innocent people. Many innocent people have been traumatized over it and whether the motives were hate, political, religious or pathological those lives are now shattered and nothing we say will bring them back. My views or your will not help Steve who grieves the loss of his 15 year old daughter or the other families involved. Those of you with kids, can you picture that?

Given what we know that kid could have just as easily been any number of over wound 'Christian' kids and nobody would say that religion had anything to do with it.
I was at Trolley Square last night and for me is was sort of surreal. I don't really care why it happened. It did happen and we need to deal with it and go on.

The end

[CaptMarvel]

  Sorry GTX, I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I don't want to be right on this one, because if/when a nuke goes off in America, we ALL lose. Johnny's right, I take this stuff too seriously, but this war is real. Some would say WWlll. I'm done.

We cant afford to not take their misguided hatred for us seriously, but, sadly, some folks are so wrapped up in emotions, that they dont see the truth in front of all of us....

[GTX]

What is the truth?

[Big Lebowski]

What is the truth?

  The truth is today the deadline has passed for Iran to stop enriching Uranium (Nuclear weapons grade material for those of you in Rio Linda) And with this deadline passing, today the Pres. of Iran gave the world the finger (the middle finger for those of you in Rio Linda).

[GTX]

We keep going in circles.

The issue in this thread was that a kid whoever he was and for whatever motives rampaged in a mall killing innocent people.  Iran has nothing whatsoever to do with Trolley Square unless there is an Iran - Utah connection that the BATF and the FBI haven't found. I'm sure that the CIA also looked at it at least briefly since that would be their domain - possible international links to terror. The FBI charter restricts it to dealing only with domestic issues.
It's my understanding that they have turned the thing over to local police since they have not found anything at all to point to a motive other than freaking out which is not a federal offense, it's just pathetic. By all evidence so far the kid was disturbed...period.

Yeah, Iran needs to be dealt with in strong terms ( I say get out of Iraq as soon as plausible and go after Iran) and yes I most certainly agree that there is friction among Christians and Muslims as there has been for centuries ( remember the crusades?)  only now it's flaring up again.
I'm also sure the there are at least 50 groups not even counting the domestic wacko's who would love to blow us all up with nukes or anything they could use but that still has nothing to do with a kid shooting people in a mall for no known reason.
Now if it came out that the kid was acting on behalf of someone I'd be screaming for that persons head but there simply is no evidence.  If the kid acted alone then I guess the case is closed, there is nobody to prosecute.   

It sort of strikes me that if the kid did it for Allah, 50 virgins or whatever then he would have left a statement and funny that he didn't. Not one person or group has come forward to claim responsibility and the kid simply left nothing behind. Nothing in his car, nothing in his room, no friends...nothing. Apparently not even religious writings or anything else.
Very odd for a militant making a statement not to make the statement and just because I or anyone else fails to make some imaginary connection doesn't mean that we are naive or ignoring the 'obvious'.
I don't chase shadows and speculation I deal in facts.

[Big Lebowski]

Ok, you win. The kid acted alone. Maybe I should have started a new thread about Iran. BTW,  I'm hearing that the Iranians bought some kind of new bad ass anti-ship missles from the commies. It's a state of the art super sonic speed, (very fast for those of you in Rio Linda) and it's a zig zag steering missile so it's hard to hit. Oh ya the best part, it comes with conventional or with a nuclear tipped warhead. That's great, the new Hitler in charge of Iran is alive and well, and well armed.

[GTX]

Now if you start a thread about Iran we're on the same side and I'm in!!

That guy needs to be taken out!