INTERESTING C500 in "cars for sale" is really a RED 500

[Charger Aficionado]

  The owner of Premier Plastics Reproductions purchases the 500 that was in ads here (originating from Craigslist).  Car has no fender tag but owner said it had a buildsheet.  Car is now painted light green but sheet said F8...  I just got off the horn with him and he said he gets there and buildsheet is NOT #'s match to car.  Matter of fact it has RED in the rear deck, AND in an old photo you can see RED by a loose piece of rubber molding that came off...

Car is a 440 A/C car.  Column shifted #'s match car.  HEMI Bendix disc brake upgrade. 

Something that is odd to me is that all the interior is green.. but that could have been transplanted???

Is it possible that Galen has info on this car?  Did he have comprehensive records?  I just called his office and he's closed...  Curiosity is killing me.

[tan top]

looks good from the pictures   sounds like a deal    ..  does the vin # match the body stampings 

[hemigeno]

I guess it is possible that someone pulled out the back seat of their C500, found someone elses' broadcast sheet, and made the assumption that it was for their own car.  The problem I have with that scenario in this instance, is that the two cars whose backseats were originally switched (probably at Creative Industries) almost always had the same color interior. 

Incidentally, a red exterior (either R4 or R6) could not come with a green interior according to the sales books.

Without talking to the people who found the B-cast sheet in the car and/or whomever made the decision to paint the car green, it would be hard to say what their assumptions were.

Isn't the exterior color of the car F6 green?  AFAIK F6 was introduced pretty much after the run of C500's was complete.

While rumors abound that Galen has a complete master list of all the C500's produced, I do not think that he had any information about specific options on specific cars.  That maybe the case, but I have heard no rumors of that myself.

If he got that car in that condition for $10k, he got a screaming good deal - fender tag or not.

[Charger Aficionado]

Does the vin # match the body stampings 

Yes they do.  I made sure of that when I first talked to the seller...  Seller said he didn't see them on Radiator support, but new owner made sure of stampings.

Isn't the exterior color of the car F6 green?  AFAIK F6 was introduced pretty much after the run of C500's was complete.

While rumors abound that Galen has a complete master list of all the C500's produced, I do not think that he had any information about specific options on specific cars.  That maybe the case, but I have heard no rumors of that myself.

Exterior IS F6.  Last owner (as of yesterday) LIKED F6 more than the F8 that was on it. 
I have heard that Galen collects mistakenly placed Build Sheets, is there anyone else that does it?  Dodge Charger Registry (or is that still open)? 

I've never seen a column-shift C500, is that a rarity?  (Allthough I've never been to an Aero meet either)...

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

F6 looks sweet on an a c500

[69_500]

I don't know of anyone who has a comprehensive list of information on 500's. Which is exactly what I'm trying to do with the information I have been collecting on 500's. I do know several people who have broadcast sheets and reunite them with current owners. Any chance on getting a copy of the broadcast sheet? Or information on the car? I might have some information on the car already, and could possibly be of help. With VINs to 236 of the 500's, I might have something on it.

[Charger Aficionado]

F6 sure looks good on Daytona:

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

man those tires on the car havent been made since the 80's Dude

[Charger1973]

If the interior has been swapped, its no wonder he found the wrong buildsheet.  It was probably under one of the seats, which came from another car. 

[hemi68charger]

If the interior has been swapped, its no wonder he found the wrong buildsheet.  It was probably under one of the seats, which came from another car. 

Having mismatched broadcast sheets was a VERY common thing on both C500's and Daytonas.. The tech's at Creative Industries didn't care about that, they just put the same color seat cushions back in a car with the same color...  Car's with close build dates and interior color would more than likely have swapped sheets.... Just a theory..

Troy

[xs29j8Bullitt]

If the interior has been swapped, its no wonder he found the wrong buildsheet.  It was probably under one of the seats, which came from another car. 

Having mismatched broadcast sheets was a VERY common thing on both C500's and Daytonas.. The tech's at Creative Industries didn't care about that, they just put the same color seat cushions back in a car with the same color...  Car's with close build dates and interior color would more than likely have swapped sheets.... Just a theory..

Troy

Thats correct... Both my C500 & Daytona had broadcast sheets for other aero cars with like interiors.  I have broadcast sheets for a Hemi C500 & a 440 Daytona.  I have heard the Daytona was seen up north (maybe Canada) in the mid 1990s, but have never heard anything back about the Hemi Charger 500.  I think I will dig out the broadcast sheets and put the VINs on this forum...

XS

[duo-stripe]

If the interior has been swapped, its no wonder he found the wrong buildsheet.  It was probably under one of the seats, which came from another car. 

Having mismatched broadcast sheets was a VERY common thing on both C500's and Daytonas.. The tech's at Creative Industries didn't care about that, they just put the same color seat cushions back in a car with the same color...  Car's with close build dates and interior color would more than likely have swapped sheets.... Just a theory..

Troy

well, I am talking about an other car; my 69RR. Rear bench was never taken out until I got the car (semi-survivorstatus; original paint, original interior, non-matching engine) the buildsheet we found under the rearbench; the last 3 digits of the VIN were slightly different than the real VIN number of my car; it was a buildsheet, also from a 69 RR. I think in the factory, the wrong bench was put in.

[xs29j8Bullitt]

well, I am talking about an other car; my 69RR. Rear bench was never taken out until I got the car (semi-survivorstatus; original paint, original interior, non-matching engine) the buildsheet we found under the rearbench; the last 3 digits of the VIN were slightly different than the real VIN number of my car; it was a buildsheet, also from a 69 RR. I think in the factory, the wrong bench was put in.

Yes, it happened at the factory as well.  My A4 Platinum colored 1969 Road Runner with a Pewter colored interior had the correct broadcast sheet in the upright cushion of the back sheet, but the bottom portion had a broadcast sheet from an A4 colored 1969 GTX with a similar scheduled build date.  Your RR doesn't have a Pewter colored interior... does it? 

I am guessing that during breaks the line workers would take bottom seat cushions out to sit on... just a theory tho...

XS

[hemigeno]

I think there were any number of reasons that a wrong seat cushion (from a Broadcast sheet perspective) could have been installed in a car at the factory.  The seat cushions were assembled in a totally different area than the chassis line, but they were assembled in pretty much the same order that the cars were supposed to be going down the chassis line.  In the upper lefthand corner of each B-cast sheet is a "sequence number", which from my research indicates the order that the broadcast sheets were printed out - and by extension, the order which the cars were going down the chassis assembly line as well.  A perfect example of this can be found on the broadcast sheets from the Y2 SE Daytona XX29L9B386543 (one on the eBay auction and the other posted by UFO), since these two separate sheets were printed on different printers at Hamtramck.  One of these has seat cushion marks and the other doesn't -- however they bear the same Sequence Number.  To me, this infers that the Hamtramck printers were synchronized off of that Sequence Number - which became the de facto order of assembly for the cars.

Once the seat cushions were assembled (with their B-cast sheet showing underneath), they were placed on a conveyor line, supposedly in the sequential order that matched the chassis line.  Theoretically, these seat cushions would arrive at the assembly line so that each car would then get the seats "intended" for it.  The line workers weren't necessarily trying to get the right seats in their cars -- but when the system was working as it should, the seats were "supposed" to be matched to the car. 

For any number of reasons, a chassis might be pulled off of the assembly line for repairs during the assembly process, which would wreak havoc on the sequences.  They might or might not have set those seat cushions aside for the "correct" chassis - they probably just put those seat cushions in the next car with the same trim grade and color.  Once the repaired chassis was inserted back into the line, the "correct" sequence would have resumed.

The assembly lines also intentionally tried to mix up the different car models, so that you might have a Charger R/T rolling down the line behind a 4-door Coronet, with another plain-Jane car behind it.  Each of those cars might have a totally different type of seat covering, even if their interior color was -for example - black.  However, there were times when they pushed batches of cars through (I think export cars may have been done in batches, for instance).  When a batch of the same model cars (with the same interior/trim grade) was coming down the line, the line workers didn't have to worry as much about matching things up, as long as the interior color was the same.  As a result, a car that happened to go through in a batch of similar models might be more prone to having mis-matched Broadcast sheets in their seat cushions.

There's no rhyme or reason to why the factoyr mixups occurred, but they definitely did screw up occasionally with regard to the seat cushions.  Creative Industries, it seems, was just as likely to put the wrong seat cushions back in a car than to put the right ones in.  That's why its almost an oddity to find a car with its correct sheet. 

Without guys like XS/Allen doing what you're doing (trying to reunite the paperwork with car owners), there would be a lot fewer cars with their proper stuff.  Kudos for doing that!   

[Ghoste]

Actually, it just wasn't important.  The broadcast sheets were for the assembly use only and were never ever meant to be seen someday by restorers.  If you knew the car took a certain style and color of seat, it did not matter if the seat cushion you threw in there had the matching sheet or not.  All that mattered was that it was the correct seat material and color.
A lot of sheets were even just thrown in the trash.

[hemigeno]

Actually, it just wasn't important.  The broadcast sheets were for the assembly use only and were never ever meant to be seen someday by restorers.  If you knew the car took a certain style and color of seat, it did not matter if the seat cushion you threw in there had the matching sheet or not.  All that mattered was that it was the correct seat material and color.
A lot of sheets were even just thrown in the trash.

I agree 100%, they were not worried about broadcast sheets back then, which is why I said:

The line workers weren't necessarily trying to get the right seats in their cars -- but when the system was working as it should, the seats were "supposed" to be matched to the car.

I guess when I said ' "supposed" to be matched' , that implies that Chrysler had some sort of requirement for that.  You're right, they didn't care - and neither did Creative Industries.  However, the factory's supply system still quite often ended up putting the seat cushions in cars that matched the broadcast sheets tucked under their springs - whether they intended to do so or cared.

[Ghoste]

We still use a similar system today on our lines.  There are multiple sheets and there is a lineset for things like trim.  However, as long as all options match what the original order specified, no one gives a rats ass at our plant what happens to the sheets.  Some guys keep them in case they are questioned later.  Some guys trash them immediately, some throw them in the truck as it leaves the area.  The other thing to know is that based on the other stock around you, you may not even have to look at the sheet.  If I see the next station has black buckets lineset and my rear seat goes in first, I don't need to read the bottom of the seats to see if it's a match, all the black ones are the same. 
I can't say it's gospel because I didn't work in a Chrysler plant in the 60's, but knowing what I do know about auto assembly plants, most likely the days lineset for seats consisted of a large stockpile of black on the line and oddball colors were in the vicinity.  The broadcast sheets we find stuffed in interior components were likely there for the stock people as much as the guys on the line.  The line worker more likely looked at the fender tag and threw in what was called up.  With the just in time method we use today, we have a master list on the line as well so you know ahead of time what to be looking for.  It's also possible (but I doubt it) that they had a similar system with a master list for the day highlight oddball colors.

[tan top]

I've never seen a column-shift C500, is that a rarity?  (Allthough I've never been to an Afro meet either)...

                not trying to hijack anything ....
  can't of been many   C500 's  built with that combination of options . i have/ had a ad in a old mag with  Don BIG DADDY Garlits  telling how he used a crower cam  in all his cars & it showed him  in front of his speed shop with his C500 i think it had A/C an was column shift  might of been red  or the ad might of been in black & white,  & the car looked it might of been red in black &white print  , sorry i can't be more  accurate  ... as i saw this .. must be 25 years ago ..  will have a look  for this magazine later to see if i still have it ,  i might be getting mixed up as it was a long time a go but  defiantly a 440 powered C500

[69_500]

I sorted through all my information I had last night, and I only have full information on 5 different 500's that are AT's on the column. 2 of those are HEMI's and the other 3 are 440's. Just for a comparison.

[UFO]

I have it handy

[UFO]

If the die cast is correct,looks more like gold-copper+black.

[Ghoste]

The one in his museum is red...

[tan top]

I have it handy

       

   thats the one    sorry guys  my memory is  going/ gone   i was convinced it showed an interior  shot                                      

   

The one in his museum is red...

     
              yeah      thats True ( Ghoste )  forgot about that one      i wonder  how that one is optioned out .  some thing is telling me it might be a HEMI car though

    thanks for finding the ad ( UFO )   you must have one   awesome collection.... good stuff     

[hemi68charger]

I have it handy

Look at those Goodyear Polyglas GT's on that '69......   

The "Charger" script is also missing on the rear pillar.......

[69_500]

The HEMI 500 that is in his museum is a beautiful car. Absolutely stunning car if you ask me. There  are a few things wrong with it, but I wouldn't turn it down.