Environmentalists and Musclecars

[jamie1974]

    Just curious how everyone thinks the environmental/global warming movement pushed by environmentalists is affecting or how it could affect us old Charger freaks. It kinda scares me when I see how much the environmentalists froth at the mouth over musclecars...and knowing that their initiatives are going to be the ones observed now that everyone wants to turn "green". I wonder if there is anything in the future for folks like us...or if we're going to all be driving styrofoam Honda boxes and paying $25 a gallon to fuel our Mopars.

   Just wondering what everyone else is feeling on this...and what some of your thoughts are. Are you feeling any pressure? Any frustration towards environmentalists? It wouldn't bother me so much, but I know that the oil shortage and environment was what snuffed out the musclecar movement in the early 70's. Now I wonder if the new Challenger is even going to come out, or if the greenies are going to snuff that out.

[Brock Samson]

the challanger is on track and you will see it..
but there is a trend to green/er vehicles...
So, is this an argument against treehugging?. 

[Orange_Crush]

but I know that the oil shortage and environment was what snuffed out the musclecar movement in the early 70's.

WRONG!

The environmentalists had nothing to do with the death of musclecars in the early seventies.  In fact, environmentalism was still in its infancy at the time.

In fact, Musclecars were on their way out before the oil shortage even.  Blame insurance companies that were jacking premiums up on anything that was being marketed As a musclecar.  People were no longer buying musclecars because they couldn't afford to insure them.  Add in the oil crunch that came later and it was all over.

Emissions controls were BARELY starting to make their way onto cars in 1970, mostly because of the extremely bad pollution situation in California....that wasn't environmentalism, it was necessity.  Just ask anyone who lived in LA in the sixties and seventies.

As far as todays musclecars?  If ANYONE has the power to kill them, it will probably be 3 dollar/gallon gasoline and an overzealous IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety).

[bull]

I think the extreme environmentalists would eagerly use musclecars as the example for this argument but there are so few muscle cars left it's pretty much a moot point. But extremists will always use extreme examples in an attempt to prove a point, even if it continually falls on deaf ears. Look at PETA for example. They've been working for years to end what they define as animal cruelty and I haven't seen them enjoy much success -- mostly, I think, because they're so out there that no one in the mainstream listens to them for very long. That said, I don't think there are too many people who are all that concerned with the muscle car's effect on the environment.

[MOPARHOUND!]

    Just curious how everyone thinks the environmental/global warming movement pushed by environmentalists is affecting or how it could affect us old Charger freaks. It kinda scares me when I see how much the environmentalists froth at the mouth over musclecars...and knowing that their initiatives are going to be the ones observed now that everyone wants to turn "green". I wonder if there is anything in the future for folks like us...or if we're going to all be driving styrofoam Honda boxes and paying $25 a gallon to fuel our Mopars.

   

"It ought to be possible to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a 25-year period."  - Al Gore, Earth In The Balance, pages 325-326.

More people wanted him for president, than Bush, based on popular vote (not state by state).  That is scary to me.  One day you may see Chargers only in museums.  Looked at all the other stuff they classify as hazardous to the environment, and then ban.

[BB1]

To me, the two don't go together. What's a muscle car to these folks, just a small fish or 0.5% of cars in the world.

Don't worry about it.

[Jon Smith]

If they look at the bigger picture, its more environmentally friendly to run an old car anyway..
the real automotive environmental disaster is the constant cycle of scrapping cars and making new ones..a few less mpg and a bit more smoke out the exhaust is peanuts compared to that

[Old Moparz]

I'm more concerned over what other countries do that have little, or no regards at all, to any part of the environment what so ever. Muscle cars, especially older ones that are pampered, stored, & hardly driven, are the least of the problem. I haven't followed it in a while, but when the state, or US government issues pollution credits for buying up old cars & getting them "off the road" to companies that pollute, that gets on my nerves. How about selling credits to an over polluting company? That sounds absurd but happens.

It seems to not be in the news lately & makes me wonder why.     (Too political & this thread is destined to be history.)

Pollution Credits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading

How to Sell Pollution for Profit:
http://www.ringnebula.com/project-censored/1993/1993-story21.htm

Why Crushing Old Cars Is Like "Making" Money:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/46829/article.html

[skip68]

My feelings towards enviornmentalists is the same way I look at everything.  Don't focus so much on the problem.    Focus on the resolution. Put their time and energy to use to finding better ways to do things. They all (most of them) live in wood homes, drive cars that pullute, ect. ect.  Are they willing to give up their cars ? NO!  Are they willing to give up their homes ? NO! Are they willing to give up their computers, TV's, radios,(there is plastic in them) ect. ? NO!  Not to mention groceries, clothing, ect.. How do they think these things get to stores ? I do understand their effort for cleaner air, I just think they need to not cry so much about how bad it is, Make it better.    Ask yourself this. How much emmissions does JUST ONE 747 JET put out per year compared to classic cars ?  Not to mention trains, buses, big rigs, ships and such. Commen sense will tell you that our weekend drivers have almost no effect on the enviornment.  But that's just my 2cents.      Chuck...............

[hemihead]

Tree Hugging is just a fad like it was in the early 70's, it's in vogue now with the hippies getting old and wanting to feel young again ( like war protesting) and they brainwash their kids to do the same.A car that is well tuned and in good mechanical shape doesn't pollute like the enviro groups would like the public to believe.And everyone talks like it is the U. S. that is making all the pollution.It's not.If you are worried about Global Warming and all that stuff they are brainwashing people with then next time you buy a foreign product or spout off about a Global Market and how great it is,think about how much uncontrolled pollution China and some others are producing.No Musclecars are not the problem but we pay for it by having to have Emissions Inspections every year on our cars.

[694spdRT]

I think that SUV's and trucks are the new targets for the gas guzzler argument more than the limited amount of pollution that muscle car's produce. A lot of our cars(mine included) haven't seen the light of day in years. 

Car restorers were recycling long before recycling was cool anyway. 

[defiance]

    Just curious how everyone thinks the environmental/global warming movement pushed by environmentalists is affecting or how it could affect us old Charger freaks. It kinda scares me when I see how much the environmentalists froth at the mouth over musclecars...and knowing that their initiatives are going to be the ones observed now that everyone wants to turn "green". I wonder if there is anything in the future for folks like us...or if we're going to all be driving styrofoam Honda boxes and paying $25 a gallon to fuel our Mopars.

   

"It ought to be possible to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a 25-year period."  - Al Gore, Earth In The Balance, pages 325-326.

More people wanted him for president, than Bush, based on popular vote (not state by state).  That is scary to me.  One day you may see Chargers only in museums.  Looked at all the other stuff they classify as hazardous to the environment, and then ban.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about in *production* vehicles, and I agree with him entirely.  Probably 90% of the cars being driven regularly right now are from the last decade, so if you can ensure that *NEW* cars don't pollute at all, then in a few years gasoline vehicles will become a rarity.  Problem solved without 'banning' anything.

[ITSA426]

I think we can enjoy our muscle cars and still be a good steward of the things we are given.  The earth is one of those things.  I enjoy all my old Dodges, my new RT Daytona and Rumblebee. 

I also enjoy sunny mornings, fresh air, and rain that doesn't dissolve the chrome off of car bumpers.  We can be considerate of our environment so others can enjoy it also.  I'm sure we can find better solutions that lessen the fossil fuel burn rates.  Alternative and renewable energy sources are one effort.

So far as fads go it hasn't been that long since I protested a war, and a little longer since I went to one.

And it really was insurance rates that neutered the muscle cars.

[65post]

enviromentalist = We have madmen in the  middle east right now rushing to get nukes and all these idiots talk about is that global warming is the single most important thing facing mankind.If these people had their way we would all be on bicycles and living in mud huts.Yes the ice up north is melting but it has been melting since the ice age! because if it did not we all would not be here.It amazes me how such small groups can set the agenda for the world.I could go on and on but I will stop here.And yes them there muscle cars are the cause of this whole mess were are in!

[Brock Samson]

this is turning into yet another amusing thread.. 

[Skued]

This is what keeps me sane in insane world.  You have the Far left, liberals.  Than you have the Far right, Conservatives. With out either you have tyranny.  Each(as carzy as they are) keep us on an even keel.  So, am I worried about the environmentalist? No.       

[Mean 318]

I love that global warming is based off of a 2 degree increase over 100 years! I dont know about you, but 100 years ago we were pooping in out houses, how well do you think they were at taking the temp... Also, the planet is constantly changing!

[Shakey]

And it really was insurance rates that neutered the muscle cars.

....because so many people that bought them, couldn't handle the power and ended up writing them off, forcing the insurance companies to continaully pay out claims which in turn causes rates to increase which in turn, puts the blame on the muscle car owners themselves.   

[hemihead]

And it really was insurance rates that neutered the muscle cars.

....because so many people that bought them, couldn't handle the power and ended up writing them off, forcing the insurance companies to continaully pay out claims which in turn causes rates to increase which in turn, puts the blame on the muscle car owners themselves.   

As the saying goes " Don't ban High Performance Cars,Ban Low Performance Drivers"

[MOPARHOUND!]

    Just curious how everyone thinks the environmental/global warming movement pushed by environmentalists is affecting or how it could affect us old Charger freaks. It kinda scares me when I see how much the environmentalists froth at the mouth over musclecars...and knowing that their initiatives are going to be the ones observed now that everyone wants to turn "green". I wonder if there is anything in the future for folks like us...or if we're going to all be driving styrofoam Honda boxes and paying $25 a gallon to fuel our Mopars.

   

"It ought to be possible to establish a coordinated global program to accomplish the strategic goal of completely eliminating the internal combustion engine over, say, a 25-year period."  - Al Gore, Earth In The Balance, pages 325-326.

More people wanted him for president, than Bush, based on popular vote (not state by state).  That is scary to me.  One day you may see Chargers only in museums.  Looked at all the other stuff they classify as hazardous to the environment, and then ban.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about in *production* vehicles, and I agree with him entirely.  Probably 90% of the cars being driven regularly right now are from the last decade, so if you can ensure that *NEW* cars don't pollute at all, then in a few years gasoline vehicles will become a rarity.  Problem solved without 'banning' anything.

I disagree.

The key word is "completely".

The only clarification by him, is the statement should not be confused with the banning of automobiles.

To me, the two don't go together. What's a muscle car to these folks, just a small fish or 0.5% of cars in the world.

Actually the musclecar would be an easy "political football", giving them the oppurtunity to grand stand to their constituents on the evening news yet again about how they are saving the planet from polluting cars, with the downside being minimal if only .5% (probably less if you count the owners of those cars that actually vote) feel the pinch.

They went after cars, then diesel trucks, now they're after lawn mowers, and after that what then?  What will they have to sustain the bureaucracy?

[pettyfan43]

Here's the thing. These SAME goups 30 years ago were screaming that pollution was gonna block out the SUN and the whole planet was going to frost over and go into another ICE AGE! Now 30 years later we are getting warmer, FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS!

SO which time were they wrong? THe OZONE layer is depleting! Remember this one? They did these studies about it disappearing. Then over a period of a couple of years, they figured out that in the winter months in North America, IT DOES THIS NATURALLY!  Of course they didn't scream that part at you.

Al Gore is one of the biggest frauds on this planet. If he has this deadly concern about Global warming, why does he travel EVERYWHERE in a private JET?
Why does his household own 5 (FIVE) full sized SUVs?

He makes a case about a "Scientific consensus" that global warming is manmade and we are responsible based on 938 documents. What about the other 10,000 he DOESN'T consider that say a lot of this is just a natural phenomenon caused by stronger sun rays because the SUN is in a constant state of flux? ANd that the earth warms and cools naturally BECAUSE OF THIS. OR that 99 % of Carbon Dioxide is caused by NATURALLY occuring phenomenon ON this planet and we are but a drop in the bucket.

This is the stuff the liberals WILL NOT TELL YOU!

How's THAT for an Inconvenient truth?

We have no control over this planet, the Earth is a self sufficient, self healing planet. That has been proven time and time again. Should we go and be as reckless as we can and start pouring our oil into the ground again? NO, Not by any stretch!

But the fact is that the left has its OWN agenda. The EPA and its supporters are deadly set against anything that does not further its agenda.

If you want to lose your rights and your freedom, keep electing the liberals. You won't have any money to by gas for your car or the right to drive it anyway. They never met a tax hike they didn't love and they would love nothing more than to put us into a socialist economy.

If you don't believe this, do some research a guy named George Soros. He bankrolls the biggest part of the democrat party and he is a SCARY individual.

He has a specific agenda that includes people like Barak Obama and I assure you, your rights and happiness are NOT A concern to either of these guys.

[Brock Samson]

Congrats!
you just spun out of control there Mr Petty..   

[Ghoste]

So what is the truth?  (not a rhetorical question btw)

[MOPARHOUND!]

    Just curious how everyone thinks the environmental/global warming movement pushed by environmentalists is affecting or how it could affect us old Charger freaks.

This ongoing battle is very real folks.

Here is some good related reading of what is going on in the political arena, at the various state levels, and the federal level:

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60081

[Mean 318]

When it comes to a car polluting, it doesn't matter how old it is, its how well it is maintained!