charger, it will remain a dream....

[LivedodgeItaly]

   ....due to pollution and eviromental problems a charger will have to remain a dream for me in Italy 

I won't be allowed to drive it freely on roads unless there is an "official occasion, meeting ect..." it means something like 10 days per year......

no weekend ride! 

I cannot think of having a car without using it!!!!!!    considering high costs I should stand to have it here.... not worthwhile I guess.

please I  need ..... good and positive words wispered at my ear.

   Andrea

[Charger1973]

How about swapping in a newer drivetrain?  Lots of people are using the new 5.7L Hemis in their old Mopars these days. 

[bull]

Sounds like Italy is run by facists. Move away.

Or, sign up for every "official occasion, meeting etc..." you can include a car in. There has to be lots of those activities going on every summer.

[CB]

Sorry to hear Andreas
When the government starts talking about pollution, I m getting uncomfortable too.
Replacing with new engine is a good idea to keep the 69.
If you would visit Belgium sometime you are more then welcome to cruise around with me and my 69!

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

Hey u know what really sucks??? one day thats gonna happen to us they are gonan outlaw these cars cause of pollution what then??? hopefully i will be long dead b4 that day comes -MATT

[LivedodgeItaly]

they look like fascists...you're right..move away..a bit more difficult;
swapping in a new engine and drivetr...I have to collect infos abuout it: expencise I think..and what's more difficult to register here..it would be needed a registration (expencive) as a "unique vehical" ( do not know a lot about);

sad situation is as follows:

national law, but single regions have 4 years to take part into it...my region ofcourse has been the first to agree ....damn....

From april 2007 every bike 2 stroke is stopped (if not Euro 1) 4 stroke keep on;
from october 2007: every car (petrol or diesel) not "Euro1" as pollutin norm is stopped if not "historical" ( everything built between 1987 and 1993 not part of an historic register)
From october 2008: every diesel "Euro1" is stopped (cars from 1992-3 till 1997).....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you get some cash to "junk" them if you buy a new  unpolluting car...but a lot of limitation in Hp and engine sizes have been settled...

my brother's car cannot move any longer from october 2007;
my daily driver Toyota land cruiser from october 2008;
our offroad Merceds G cla toy in four years..( as 30 yers old then)
with my enduro bikes I'm safe still for a while (both honda xe and suzuky rm 250 are registered);
with my Golf R32 I'm safe ...it's Euro4!!!
Concerning a charger swapping would be interesting...if it were possible to obtain homologations.... and registration with new polluting norms!!!!

how much could it cost

Andrea

[LivedodgeItaly]

CB thanx for inviting....
I know there are a lot of chargers over there.... 
I do travel alot for job...so it's more than possible!!!!!!! I'll let you know.

Andrea

[ChargerSG]

Hang in there, hope you make it

[bull]

Whenever I experience dumb rules I immediately think of ways around them. You say 10 days a year? Ok, so is there any limit on how many miles you put on the car during those 10 days? If you drive 200 miles each of those 10 days you'll probably be putting 500 more miles on your Charger per year than many guys in the USA do. Actually, 10 days isn't all that bad when you think about it. I bet most guys here don't average much more than that in a summer. Maybe four car shows plus 5-10 weekend outings and then it's back into the garage for the winter. Like I said, get plugged in to some classic car club and start signing up for every show/cruise event you can find. Honestly, it could be a lot worse than 10 days worth of Charger fun. I'd sooner enjoy 10 days than none.

[Shakey]

.....one day thats gonna happen to us they are gonan outlaw these cars cause of pollution what then???....

The song Red Barchetta comes to mind!   

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

.....one day thats gonna happen to us they are gonan outlaw these cars cause of pollution what then???....

The song Red Barchetta comes to mind!

Great song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeZk3W1GrGc

[Charger_Fan]

from october 2007: every car (petrol or diesel) not "Euro1" as pollutin norm is stopped if not "historical" ( everything built between 1987 and 1993 not part of an historic register)

I read that as a Charger would be "historical", therefore exempt from pollution laws...

..or am I reading that wrong?

[Chatt69chgr]

The whole business of making these old cars meet air pollution laws is really pretty stupid.  Folks who own these cars put very few miles on them particularly compared to all the other cars on the road.  And the amount of $$ that is pumped into the economy because people are restoring these cars is phenomenal.  I think the SEMA bunch said that their industry was a billion dollar industry.  Why would you want to keep people from putting a billion dollars into the economy?  I would think the same thing would pretty much be true in Italy. 

[Troy]

CHARGER_FAN: I think it means that anything NOT historical is banned completely. That pretty harsh to ban cars as new as 1997.

As for modernizing the engine, I'm not sure what you'd have to put in a Charger to get it to pass such harsh restrictions. For sure you'd need a small displacement engine with catalytic converters and all. Possibly a new Hemi with the variable cylinder disabling technology? It would be simpler, cheaper, and more fun(!) just to leave it stock/modified and find creative ways to get around the driving restrictions. It sounds like the historical cars are emissions exempt as long as the other rules are followed.

Good luck!
Troy

[Doright]

GRRRRRRRRR!
I hate hearing stuff like this! HOW COULD THEY?
I would leave the car compleetly stock and just drive to the shows as others have said just join all the clubs you can and make and start your own club, then rally the boys up for the cruises and shows swapmeets ect you will be suprised how many others will ralley with you! youl come up with more days driving than you really want to drive I bet! thease cars are expensive to drive thease days any ways with gas prices as they are.
I dont want to drive mine to work more than twice a year so it will be a show car in the end driven maybe 30-40 days a year tops

Think about it

[Silver R/T]

what about all those lambos', ferrari's etc. I don't think those v12s got better emissions than a well tuned Charger

[pettyfan43]

What it looks like is the government is in bed with new car makers, Doing all they can to make everybody buy newer "Non polluting" (YEAH RIGHT) cars.

[LivedodgeItaly]

..you are right pettyfun43...they help you buy what....

fiat punto, panda, 1.3 cc engine ect.....

the stupid thing is that everything(diesel and petrol) between 1988 and 1992 will be stopped, next winter diesel up to end 1996 by next year...
if you have an "historical car" (20 yeras old or more) you need to be registered in the special register for such cars..not everything older than 20 is considered " historical", when you reach 30 years old....stop, only moving around on official occasion, meetings ect.... today I heard  I'd be allowed only on private properties or closed roads for meetings ..so I should buy a lorry to bring it around....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not know what else to say!

you luky

Andrea

[bull]

What a crock! Don't the classic car guys have some sort of lobbying strength? I know there are clubs and insurance companies in the US that spend money to fight stuff like this. If the US did what happened there you can bet there's be some civil unrest.

[LivedodgeItaly]

....there are but they aren't that powerful!!!! 
they going too crazy here.....maybe in the end nothing or barely nothing  will happen. 

We'll see;

keep on saving money for the charger by any chance!!!!!! 

Thanx for all your words.

Andrea

[2Gunz]

Firstly..... whos to say exactly how many days you drove the car?

Tell them you drive 9 times a year and drive it 50.


And secondly this stuff pisses me off.

California has pretty strict pollution laws ( for the US anyway).

And they (the state) is one of the worst offenders.

Ever follow a bus in LA? Might as well just start a tire on fire.

The cop cars and state vehicles are all excempt ( I think).

So say 10,000 cop cars...
who knows how many service trucks...
Dumptrucks, highway mantaince trucks...
Firetrucks...
The people with the state cars...


All with no or up to date smog stuff.

And yet the little guy gets nabbed for it.

Doesnt make sense.

[LivedodgeItaly]

...I perfectly agree with you 2Gunz..it's just the same in Italy...medium age of oue public busses....20-28 years old diesel....black smoking every time a gear is put in!!!!!
it's still all to be seen...
I keep on hoping I'll be able to drve my still to come charger by any way...!! 

Andrea

[tan top]

hi Andrea ,  is there any  mopar clubs  Italy   

[Arigmaster]

I wonder if it would make a difference if it was converted to run on propane or natural gas?  Granted you will lose performance but if it's tuned there is far less pollution. May even be able to register it as experimental. (alternative fuels)

Just a thought...

[LivedodgeItaly]

...not really a mopar club..there are some but mainly "american cars clubs".. there's a Corvette club, a Mustang club, American V8 club, a "Chevy club"....not very common such passion here.
A club usually has both oldies and new cars...there are not a lot in Italy...

Converting to alternative fuel (propane, natural gas, Lpg ) more than possible..do not know if ther are advantages on such oldies....at the moment what's not catalized (1987-1992) even with LPG or natural gas has to be junked...so.... 

I'm thinking to trade my Toyota Land cruiser turbo diesel for may be a Gran cherockee (wrong written maybe) v8 gas/LPG....maybe ..we'll see.

Andrea

[Brock Samson]

im not sure i understand your up comming regulations LDI...
But Ii'm sure your american V-8 club would be all over this and helpful...
Good Luck let us know what you decide to do... 

[Arthu®]

I haven't actually heard about the plan, but I am guessing this was came out of the plan that Italy had to present to the EU by late december to make sure they have some idea on how to cut back on their emissions. Italy signed a treaty years ago and has since not been able to meet it and the EU was less than pleased about that. So they gave them a deadline to come up with a plan. This is probably it, I doubt it will actually be put through as they plan to make all the emission regulations for things like cars, bikes and boats the same in the entire EU and it is simply something that is going to find resistance and will be impossible to put through in some of the countries that have joined lately.

I will have to actually see it happen before I believe it, Andrea keep saving up for that Charger. Btw may I say that emissions has very little to do with how much gas you use it is more about how much gas you actually burn. The worst polution comes from poorly tuned cars that spit half of the fuel out of the exhaust pipe again. If the efficiency is almost a 100% a old car like the Charger can still pass the current EU standards as they are now applied in Holland (and we meet the emission rules of the EU every year). Don't lose hope.

Arthur

[LivedodgeItaly]

keep hopin'...never mind, keep saving for the dreamt about charger...
Toyota now is the first matter to face up... (daily driver)

Thanx

Andrea

[six-tee-nine]

These story's give me te creeps....



I always thought Belgium was a crappy country as far as the laws are conerned, but obviously it can be worse....

What are the gonna do to the tourists visiting italy with a 12 year old car.    Tell them to leave their car at the border and walk into Italy......

[road/track]

This is probably it, I doubt it will actually be put through as they plan to make all the emission regulations for things like cars, bikes and boats the same in the entire EU and it is simply something that is going to find resistance and will be impossible to put through in some of the countries that have joined lately.

Arthur

I agree, but it will never be the trough for "historical vehicles" in most of the existing part of EU either, as the historical car organizations in norther Europe is way to strong have have major influence on this.

What about all old Ferrari, Maseratis etc?? If you can't drive them I'm willing to host them up here in the north 

(last count reveals 347 Charger registered in Sweden)

[Nacho-RT74]

I'll move to Spain soon ( oh well I know I have been saying this since long time ago, but WILL  ). As far I know there is not that kind of restrictrions there. Whatever it happens I DON'T CARE and I'LL BE RIDING my car. I bet some officer stops me he will be get so STUNT about my car that will forgett the ticket ammonestation or whatever LOL. I'll invite him on a road trip

BTW, I don't think historical or oldies European cars didn't meet with pollution back there, and neither now, so  I think you won't be alone just because wanting to get an American car; I bet Classic european owners will be on fight too ( ask for those Bugatti oldies with 12 cilinders and similars ).

I'm agree with enviromental laws, and related stuff, in fact I'm an enviromental fighter, but I don't think classics are so many to affect that, more than common newer cars. I think there is limits for every stuff and nothing can be so extremist.

[6670charger]

The whole business of making these old cars meet air pollution laws is really pretty stupid.  Folks who own these cars put very few miles on them particularly compared to all the other cars on the road.  And the amount of $$ that is pumped into the economy because people are restoring these cars is phenomenal.  I think the SEMA bunch said that their industry was a billion dollar industry.  Why would you want to keep people from putting a billion dollars into the economy?  I would think the same thing would pretty much be true in Italy. 

Tree hugging.

[mridolfo]

Andrea, What part of Italy are you in ? My sister Andrea, lives outside of Udine. With the new law any car 30 years old or older can't be driven ?

[LivedodgeItaly]

...I live in Lombardia, lakes area north of Milan, 12 kms far away from Swiss line (Como lake, Varese lake, Lake Maggiore..)
mridolfo, your sister won't be touched by this stupid rules as she lives in another region.  I suggest she should collect informations about it by the way , as this is a national law to which single regions have 4/5 years to join in.
so far just Lombardia and Piemonte joined.

Yesterday's new update: as there were too many people ignoring limitation, starting from tomorrow from 8.00 a.m. to 8.00 p.m. all "euro 0" and "euro 1" diesel will have to stopp otherwise, fines and retirement of driving papers for 3 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Just worst air areas..not mine luckly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andrea

[CB]

that sux
maybe time to move

[Shakey]

Andrea, What part of Italy are you in ? My sister Andrea, lives outside of Udine. With the new law any car 30 years old or older can't be driven ?

My family orginates in Udine.  They came to Canada a long, long time ago.