727 Transmission Identification

[RD]

I have another 727 identification question, i bought one today and would like to know what it came out of.
The numbers on the oil pan rail are H2538333  2722614

Thanks in advance, Lennard

'66 dodge/plymouth 318

[Lennard]

Thanks RD, so it is a 727 for a small block. The seller told me it was for a big block.
I have no use for it...  

[RD]

Thanks RD, so it is a 727 for a small block. The seller told me it was for a big block.
I have no use for it... 

most likely a poly 318

[Lennard]

Thanks, i will do a search to find out what a poly engine is.

[RD]

Thanks, i will do a search to find out what a poly engine is.

polyspherical 318 engine.  also known as "semi-hemi" due to the polyspherical design of the combustion chamber.

[Lennard]

I see, thanks again.

[floyds68]

Well its been a while since ive been on the forum but im back with some tranny questions for the experts.  The tranny in my 68 started bleeding very bad out the front of the bell housing after doing donuts in a huge dirt parking lot (so fun and totally worth it, especially because of the excitement on my son and daughters face) anyway.  The numbers off that tranny are:

3515847      3589    5829

...the tranny came with the motor I rebuiltits a 71' BB thats all i really know, i replaced a filter and have crossed my fingers for 6 years as Ive pounded on it.  I bought a rebuilt tranny to put in for $350, seemed like a good deal but Its a small block tranny with numbers:

PK3496942    3785    3695

...the tail was exchanged when it was rebuilt so it is the same length as my BB tranny.  Lesson learned.  Ive never rebuilt one but im pretty good with tools and im thinking about rebuilding my BB tranny.  Can I swap out the guts? should I just rebuild my BB tranny with a rebuild kit?  Both tranny's are on the floor of my garage and Im just not sure of the best way forward.  Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.  Thanks

Floyd (nice to be back on the forum, cant believe i remembered my password)

[RD]

The numbers off that tranny are:

3515847      3589    5829

...the tranny came with the motor I rebuiltits a 71' BB thats all i really know, i replaced a filter and have crossed my fingers for 6 years as Ive pounded on it.

71 BB trans, came behind a 440 HP motor

I bought a rebuilt tranny to put in for $350, seemed like a good deal but Its a small block tranny with numbers:

PK3496942    3785    3695

...the tail was exchanged when it was rebuilt so it is the same length as my BB tranny.  Lesson learned.

came behind a 71 318 truck, short extension (nothing glamorous).

Ive never rebuilt one but im pretty good with tools and im thinking about rebuilding my BB tranny.  Can I swap out the guts? should I just rebuild my BB tranny with a rebuild kit?  Both tranny's are on the floor of my garage and Im just not sure of the best way forward.  Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.  Thanks

Floyd (nice to be back on the forum, cant believe i remembered my password)

yes you can swap out the guts, but if there is nothing wrong with your transmission other than maybe a bad front pump seal or a crack in your converter.. then why would you?  did your troubled transmission still go in every gear without any vibrations or noises? does your front pump seal have visual damage?

[floyds68]

It still went into every gear, I cant see any damage to front seal, ill have to check it a little closer,  It was bleedin bad not drippin.  I thought of replacing it all because i dont want to have to pull it again in 3-6 months for a different problem.  I dont really know the best option,  If its a simple as replacing the front seal, ill do it.  Is there any other easy replacements I should make while its out?  I was considering a shift kit but ive never put one in and was unsure of how difficult it would be.  Thanks.

[floyds68]

Here is the culprit I think.  Does anyone know what would cause this?  It is the bearing that separates the torque converter shaft form the front oil pump shaft, i think.  Im guessing oil could have been passing through the bearing?  the torque converter shaft shows some signs of wear but without a micrometer im not sure how bad.  Any suggestions? 

[RD]

Here is the culprit I think.  Does anyone know what would cause this?  It is the bearing that separates the torque converter shaft form the front oil pump shaft, i think.  Im guessing oil could have been passing through the bearing?  the torque converter shaft shows some signs of wear but without a micrometer im not sure how bad.  Any suggestions?  

those front pump bushings can take a beating.  john kunkel may chime in, as i am sure he has seen more of this than i have, but i have seen these bushings wear with engines that had vibration issues.

in your case, the burnout (though it may not have been engine vibration related) was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

easy fix though.  you got another bushing right?

[floyds68]

The part numbers are the same on the pump housings, which contain the bushing.  So im just gonna swap those out.  I must admit, even though I havnt done much its a new adventure getting into the transmission, ive only dropped the pan to change a filter in the past but im eager to take one of these all apart and maybe better understand how they work.  Any tips on alignment when putting the front plates (not sure what they are called) back on?  Maybe you or John K. can give my plan a sanity check.  Still debating on the shift kit or other easy mods to help the tranny stay alive while i beat on it for the next few years, cause im gonna keep gettin sideways, and im gonna do more donuts.  (in a controlled environment of course)  Ive learned that as you get older you can still do stupid things, you just have to be smart and safe about it.  Thanks.

Floyd

[RD]

The part numbers are the same on the pump housings, which contain the bushing.  So im just gonna swap those out.  I must admit, even though I havnt done much its a new adventure getting into the transmission, ive only dropped the pan to change a filter in the past but im eager to take one of these all apart and maybe better understand how they work.  Any tips on alignment when putting the front plates (not sure what they are called) back on?  Maybe you or John K. can give my plan a sanity check.  Still debating on the shift kit or other easy mods to help the tranny stay alive while i beat on it for the next few years, cause im gonna keep gettin sideways, and im gonna do more donuts.  (in a controlled environment of course)  Ive learned that as you get older you can still do stupid things, you just have to be smart and safe about it.  Thanks.

Floyd

BEFORE YOU DO ANY OF THE BELOW.... MEASURE THE HEIGHT AND WIDTH OF YOUR REACTION SHAFT SUPPORT.  THEY LOOK TO BE DIFFERENT, IF SO, THEN YOU CANNOT SWAP THE FRONT PUMPS.

if you say plates = the round circular steel objects on your table, then those are the front pumps.  they only go on one way.  make sure you lube up the o-ring (preferably you get a new one) that goes around the pump, and have a new pump to housing gasket emplaced.  ( this is a great time to put on a new front pump seal )
1. slowly slide the pump down onto the housing getting the bolt holes as close as possible.  if you are a little off, use a rubber mallet and tap one of the pump ribs either left or right to line it up.  

2. put in your front pump bolts (with new washers) making sure to get each threaded as much as possible with your fingers.  

3. Then, using a star pattern, tighten down each bolt until the pump is firmly set on the housing.  then torque down to 175 inch/lbs.

IMPORTANT:

are you just going to swap out the pumps?  if so... you have to adjust your input shaft endplay due to each transmission having selective thrust washers.  The #1 thrust washer from your new transmission may be a different width.  "measure" each thrust washer's width.  if they are the same, you are golden, if not.... then make sure you take off your old #1 thrust washer and put it on the new reaction shaft support.  your endplay tolerance is to be from .034 to .084 inch

[floyds68]

WOW, I love the diagram.  Any chance you have a doc that gives a name to all the referenced parts?  If not, no biggie, mainly curiosity.  I have a thick owners maintenance manual but not nearly as detailed. The trust washer is a carbon type material, right?  Are the measurements so precise that I will need a micrometer, or will a standard tape measure do, maybe a spark plug gapper tool will work.  Ive taken the pans off and im starting to disassemble the valve body, so far they are the same,  Im thinking about using some of the springs from the be-build and other parts that seem worn out.  Thanks again for the wisdom.  Im an constantly impressed by the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share expertise with strangers.  You are all some good people!

[bobfist]

How to know if the 727 are at HD edition???
10 return springs?

[RD]

WOW, I love the diagram.  Any chance you have a doc that gives a name to all the referenced parts?

nope, just my chassis manual and other 727 books.  i attached a pic of the valve body just in case you get lost.

The trust washer is a carbon type material, right?  Are the measurements so precise that I will need a micrometer, or will a standard tape measure do, maybe a spark plug gapper tool will work.

i use a micrometer... we are talking hundredths and thousandths of an inch here, and this is just the thrust washer i am referring to.  more importantly, you need to measure the diameter of your reaction shaft support.  i think those are different from viewing the pictures.  if the 318 trans is smaller than the 440 trans, you CANNOT swap the two.   you will need to replace the front pump bushing in your 71 440 pump assembly.

Ive taken the pans off and im starting to disassemble the valve body, so far they are the same,  Im thinking about using some of the springs from the be-build and other parts that seem worn out.  Thanks again for the wisdom.  Im an constantly impressed by the wealth of knowledge and the willingness to share expertise with strangers.  You are all some good people!

no problem, do not hesitate to ask any questions.  if i dont know the answer, i am sure many will.