DOES ANYONE KNOW : WHAT AN ORIG DAYTONA WING WEIGHS ?

[daytonalo]

IF ANYONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT A ORIG DAYTONA WING WEIGHS , NOT A GUESS BUT WHAT EACH PART WEIGHS . I'M TOOLING UP TO PRODUCE AN ALUM HOLLOW WING THAT WILL WEIGH WHAT AN ORIG ONE DOES

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

all together 55lbs

[daytonalo]

Where did you get that # , and how much does each part weigh ?

[nascarxx29]

Im not exactly sure what individual piece weighs.But I recall some wings center sections have been found .To have either a hollow or solid design.If thats the correct weight for a original 55LBS .I found repos to be stated at weighing in at 85LBS .And found the 55LBS figure mentioned again at dayclona


Steel construction. These wings weigh virtually the same as the original cast aluminum wings. ("50-55lbs") 3 pieces as original w/stainless allen head bolts(2). Wing gaskets included. (also available seperately), base studs, nuts and lock washers included. Etch-primed, ready to paint and install.

Price: $2995.00

[daytonalo]

I'm going to sell an hollow alum wing , in the works right now ! I want to end this madness with all of these wings made every way but correct

[nascarxx29]

Chrysler materials are not a exact science they had sub vendors lke centro cast hackett brass etc.Did you ever see where they had wing orders contracted to hackettbrass.com to be completed outside on the sidewalk.And not that anyone would insist on these details the center upright had a visible casting line on top.And the bases were rough around the edges in contour and small size pit holes quality control at its best

http://wwnboa.org/motw.htm

[69_500]

If I'm not mistaken weren't the street wings hollow, and the race wings solid on the upper piece right? Then the race wings had cable holes drilled through them later for the saftey cable.

[daytonalo]

If all goes as planned , I will have this at or under 55 lbs . By the way i just weighed a solid alum wing , each part comes in @ 30lbs each . I will have more info on wed , going to foundry. I think I have an orig wing bolt , is it 7/16 fine thread ? If dayclona gets 3k for a sheetmetal wing , I should be able to get the same for a alum wing that weighs the same as orig , and will also be ready to paint ?

[UFO]

Mine weigh`s in at...Cross pce 13lbs  Uprights 14lbs each

[daytonalo]

What is it made from , Styrofoam

[UFO]

Yup   with a thin coating of varnish to keep the sun from breaking it down.

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

How much u sellin wings 4 lo? dayclona charges $2995 and thats steel

[hotrod98]

If dayclona gets 3k for a sheetmetal wing , I should be able to get the same for a alum wing that weighs the same as orig , and will also be ready to paint ?

I'm thinking that he's saying 3k.

[daytonalo]

Do you know why there has never been a hollow wing before ? Its a ton of work !

[hotrod98]

Has to be a labor of love. 
BTW, My trunk hinges turned out less than expected. But, when I mentioned the problem to a friend of mine, he told me about another guy that can do them with no problems. I contacted the guy and should have a nice set fabbed up in a week or so.

[daytonalo]

what is the problem ?

[BigBlockSam]

 

[TomP]

  Hmm..  Dane sells his solid wing for about $800, so to save 40lbs it'll be another $2200?  For a clone, it's not worth the additional cost.

  Hotrod98 and Dane have been selling the parts they make for what it costs to produce them, plus a little to cover their time I suppose.  It's nice to know there are people out there who are trying to help out their fellow enthusiasts and not trying to make big bucks off them. 

  If your new wing is priced similarly, I'd be interested in one, as I'm sure many here would be.

[daytonalo]

Tom ,I don't know what level you are on when it comes to paying a tool and die maker as well as foundry costs are involved , do you know ?The reason Dane sells his wings for 800  is  they are straight up sand cast , and weigh a ton , I have a solid wing that Rene [big block sam ] lent me and just positioning it on the top of my qtr panel started do depress the top of my qtr . I did a great deal of research  on the daytona wing , let me spell it out for you , do you know what a real wing cost ? 4500 and up , do you know what the tooling cost would be ? do you ?I do , 25000.00 , to do a hollow wing , hollow cast in alum . That's just for tooling , no part . The sheetmetal wings on the market are 3k , and they are probably ok , but who wouldn't take an alum wing that weighs what and orig daytona wing weighs . Trust me , I bought a solid wing from dane , hes a great guy , and basically had them sand cast and just sold as is casting , many hours of grinding and filling have yet to be done . my product is not for everyone , only the guy who wants an , dimensionally correect , correct weighing, hollow alum wing that just needs paint , need to reply . Trust me I'm not getting rich on this like you think ! I do this for the love of these cars . One more thing , I just weighed a solid wing , 90 lbs total , Mine will come in around 50 llbs . If you think you can do a hollow alum wing cheaper , I will step aside and you can write the check to the tool and die maker !

[TomP]

  I don't doubt the costs involved in tooling up for a hollow wing, I'm just saying for my purposes, it's probably not going to be worth the added cost.  I can put a lot of my time into prepping one of Dane's wings to look good if I'm saving $2200.  I'm building a clone for me to drive, not for car shows or to sell on Ebay.  The extra weight won't be a problem if the top if the 1/4 panel is braced and a metal wing washer is used.

  If it turns out yours come in for less than $3K, who knows? 

[daytonalo]

even with the brace , too much for me after spending two years of body work . From what I was told , Dane is not doing anymore wings , the price of doing that kind of work is crazy

[hotrod98]

I had planned to mock up one of Janek's wings and make a mold. I was more than surprised when I finally saw one in person. I never knew that they had aluminum inserts in them to make them stronger. Even the blade has an aluminum insert running through it so that you are bolting metal to metal. Makes sense now that I've seen it. However, that being said, I now realize that this is going to be a much more difficult project than I had planned. I've decided to concentrate on some of the simpler stuff for now. We just had a company start making the steel z-braces out of .065 steel. I'll have prices soon and they will be reasonable.
As for the hollow aluminum wing, I think that there will be some of the guys out there that will step up and buy the better, lighter wing. Some of the guys on a budget will opt for something cheaper and make do. I think there's room for both. I haven't heard anymore from Jack at Wingcarfab regarding his new aluminum wing that he was working on. With his diversity in the fabrication business, it may be a somewhat low priority. Don't know.
Larry, my opinion is that there is a far greater need for a complete working nose assembly than a lighter wing. The nose seems to be the stunbling block for most would-be wing car builders. I think that the guy that first offers the complete bolt-on working nose will own the cloner market. You build them and offer them before I do and I'll buy one from you and forget that part of the market.

[daytonalo]

Your z-braces , do they have the Popsicle depression and bet 90 degrees for strength and attaching point for latch tray ?

[Daytona R/T SE]

Hasn't Gene Gregory been making Aluminum wings for decades?

[daytonalo]

As far as I know , NOBODY has a hollow alum wing , if he does I will buy 2 of them right now. What are you using ? fiberglass or solid alum

[Daytona R/T SE]

Here's Gene's website:  http://www.alhambracustomservice.bravehost.com/index.html 

His phone number is on his site, His Daughter does all the computer stuff for him-he never touches a computer. The only way to contact Gene is to call him or catch him at the shop...  Give him a call and see if he still makes the wings

I've got one of Janak's Steel/aluminum reinforced Fiberglass wings. I'm very pleased with it...it's very well built.

[hotrod98]

Your z-braces , do they have the Popsicle depression and bet 90 degrees for strength and attaching point for latch tray ?

At this point they don't have the depressions. We're going to test a fixture out that may allow us to add the depression. They will have the 90 degree lip all of the way around. I'll take some pics next week when they're ready.
As for the other question about the trunk hinges, the shop that tried to make them last week couldn't go past 90 degrees on the main bend without kinking the tubing slightly. This new guy says his bender won't do that. I need to pick up the blueprints from the first guy and take them to the new guy.

[A383Wing]

As far as I know , NOBODY has a hollow alum wing , if he does I will buy 2 of them right now. What are you using ? fiberglass or solid alum

Guess I'm confused...I have one of the original Nascar wings (all 3 pieces), if you look up the vertical uprights from the bottom, mine are hollow and the cable is still in there, then it crosses across the top part, and down the other side. So what is the true definition of "hollow"??

Bryan

[nascarxx29]

I had inspected a nascar wing this guy Alex in Ohio had .I recall seeing round casted dots with 4 smaller dots on the uprights.Not like anything I had seen on a street wing

[daytonalo]

Easy , the opposite of hollow is solid !

[Daytona Guy]

Tom ,I don't know what level you are on when it comes to paying a tool and die maker as well as foundry costs are involved , do you know ?The reason Dane sells his wings for 800  is  they are straight up sand cast , and weigh a ton , I have a solid wing that Rene [big block sam ] lent me and just positioning it on the top of my qtr panel started do depress the top of my qtr . I did a great deal of research  on the daytona wing , let me spell it out for you , do you know what a real wing cost ? 4500 and up , do you know what the tooling cost would be ? do you ?I do , 25000.00 , to do a hollow wing , hollow cast in alum . That's just for tooling , no part . The sheetmetal wings on the market are 3k , and they are probably ok , but who wouldn't take an alum wing that weighs what and orig daytona wing weighs . Trust me , I bought a solid wing from dane , hes a great guy , and basically had them sand cast and just sold as is casting , many hours of grinding and filling have yet to be done . my product is not for everyone , only the guy who wants an , dimensionally correect , correct weighing, hollow alum wing that just needs paint , need to reply . Trust me I'm not getting rich on this like you think ! I do this for the love of these cars . One more thing , I just weighed a solid wing , 90 lbs total , Mine will come in around 50 llbs . If you think you can do a hollow alum wing cheaper , I will step aside and you can write the check to the tool and die maker !

I hope you are able to do this. I think it is great for the hobby. We need a variety of options for all levels of restoration. I talked to the foundry that I go to and they can do the uprights as a hollow casting but once I found out the cost - I passed, so I hope you can do it. Also the horizontal being extruded makes it even more difficult and expensive but once done they can spit them out like crazy. God's speed. Keep up the good work.

The Original is 55 pounds. My wing is 85-88, or as I say, 30 pounds more, or the equivalent of just under 4 gallons of gas. The wing bracing neutralizes the weight and there is no weight bearing on the quarters for it is transferred to the trunk if the wing bracing is installed and adjusted so. The wing in 70 was an option that could be dealer installed and came with just wing washers and no trunk bracing. Here is a pic of a 70 Charger that we had with a dealer installed factory Daytona wing with no trunk bracing. Worked fine for 20 years.

The reason why I think people have found some stock car solid wings is because they made their own solid ones when they needed more wings after wrecks. The 30 pound difference was meaningless when it came to 300+ pound down force that they where looking for.

[daytonalo]

Welcome back from your retirement ! Your wing , was it straight up sand cast or did you have a plastic pattern made and they used the plastic part as a mold ? Since tooling up for an hollow cast in cost prohibitive , I have a different approach , my wing when done will  be solid in the area of the upright foot , but will be hollow , yet all alum and weigh what an orig weighs . Rene lent me a wing that was purchased from Oscar , this wing is very smooth and needs very little work to make perfect , once I make it perfect a pattern maker will make pattern out of plastic , then we use that for our form . The foundry assures me that the part will look as good as the mold, of course there is 5/32 shrinkage that is on par with any cast part .You sold me a wing , I just placed  one upright on my qtr and I watched the qtr deflect down , yea I guess it would be OK with steel wing washer and brace but , if I can make a alum wing that weighs what an orig does it would be a good thing ! Are you still making solid wings , if so was there a price increase ?Larry

[Daytona Guy]

Straight up sand cast of an original. I have not talked to them in a year, so I do not know. Someone local wants me to make him one really bad so I might do another run.

How are you going to do the horizontal? They were an extruded piece so that it could be hollow, lightweight and strong at the same time. A cast hollow horizontal may be iffy and I would not let anyone stand in the middle of them like they do the original extruded wings. Thinner cast aluminum (horizontal) are prone to crack when jarred. If you do not hollow the horizontal, that only leaves you with 55 - 30 = 25 / 2 = 12.5 pounds per upright. Not much wiggle room. The extruded horizontal is where they gained weight loss and strength. That is where I found my road block and let it go. When I looked into hollowing out an upright we could only get it down by 8 pounds because we needed the strength up top and bellow (they become solid about 6 inches from the top turn). I hope you have more success. It looks like you are more determined than I was. Keep it up man.

The pattern you described is common, and once the pattern is made the price is inexpensive to make. It is the tooling up of the pattern (plastic) that is the expense. I love the idea and you should be able to out sell any other wing out there.

[daytonalo]

It would as strong as orig , it will be as strong as orig for sure . If you go to the photo of the guy hemi tyme in mopar style , you will see him sitting on a orig superbird wing , look real close and you will see the horz deflecting a great deal , and that is orig . I will never see the point of sitting or standing on a wing , why do people do this , its loading up the qtrs trunk floor and pivot bolt , I work too hard to complete my cars , and refuse to do some kind of circus act to it or on it !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daytona Guy]

It would as strong as orig , it will be as strong as orig for sure . If you go to the photo of the guy hemi tyme in mopar style , you will see him sitting on a orig superbird wing , look real close and you will see the horz deflecting a great deal , and that is orig . I will never see the point of sitting or standing on a wing , why do people do this , its loading up the qtrs trunk floor and pivot bolt , I work too hard to complete my cars , and refuse to do some kind of circus act to it or on it !!!!!!!!!!!!

How are you making the horizontal? Will it be hollow? There is not much space to hollow because it is so thin. I know the originals can be sat on, they better, they should hold over 300 pounds (that is their purpose). I sit on mine even with no bracing (I have then in now).

[daytonalo]

Dane , thats what they are designed for , to hold 300lbs , or are you trying to say they create 300lbs of down force at 7
175 mph ? If you look at from a scientific view , and after all that is how anything is created , at speed the shape of the airfoil itself transfers a certain # of pounds . I can say for certain that an engineer didn't come up with this final design by expermenting how much the cross brace will hold . The wing design itself inherently creates downforce only at high end speeds that 99.9 % people will never experience [150+ ] My wing will look a little different inside the foot area, outside it will be identical to orig , Simply put this is an alternative for the guy who thinks sheetmetal are the only way to go .Some people are happy with non operating headlights as orig or not putting a plug on their car , thats not me , I want a daytona that is as close to the way it came , and doing it on a budjet !

[Daytona Guy]

Dane , thats what they are designed for , to hold 300lbs , or are you trying to say they create 300lbs of down force at 7
175 mph ? If you look at from a scientific view , and after all that is how anything is created , at speed the shape of the airfoil itself transfers a certain # of pounds . I can say for certain that an engineer didn't come up with this final design by expermenting how much the cross brace will hold . The wing design itself inherently creates downforce only at high end speeds that 99.9 % people will never experience [150+ ] My wing will look a little different inside the foot area, outside it will be identical to orig , Simply put this is an alternative for the guy who thinks sheetmetal are the only way to go .Some people are happy with non operating headlights as orig or not putting a plug on their car , thats not me , I want a daytona that is as close to the way it came , and doing it on a budjet !

I hear ya, but are you hollowng out the horizantal?