68 charger tail light housings poll PLEASE RESPOND

[BEAPARTS]

New to DodgeCharger.com, My name is Mike Ross, owner of B/E & A Restoration Parts.  I am the financial partner with Peter at PG Classic and our company handles all the licensed parts, all the new parts being purchased by DiamlerChrysler for their new restoration parts program and we handle all parts distribution to all our dealers in the US and abroad.  I've been in the Mopar hobby for 25 years turning wrenches and restoring my own cars and a true mopar knucklehead no question.  It's nice to here all the good comments about our existing product and we look forward to producing additional parts for all our fellow mopar nuts out there. 

I've been watching the comments in reference to the 68 Charger tail light bezels, we are currently doing a market survey and they are not in production and based on the responses my not be produced.  This morning I received our official projected list price for these bezels which will be between $599-$699 for the pair.  These are a very heavy and expensive piece to repoduce.

Guys, we go to great lengths to insure the parts are of the highest quality, that we would use on our cars and be proud to show them off.  I always encourage input, good or bad, from all our fellow mopar friends in the hobby.

I am always available by phone (330-725-3990) and encourage anyone with input to call anytime, I love talking mopar.

Michael C. Ross
Owner - B/E & A Restoration Parts Inc.
www.beaparts.com
(330) 725-3990

[Old Moparz]

well, do to the respone from this poll im pretty sure these will prob. not happen come on people we all wonder why noone has a wide selection of parts for our chargers this stuff cost money to produce and in the end we get nice parts but i guess some of us just want that " good enuf " crap instead of paying something 

I wouldn't use one poll on a forum to judge what the entire hobby needs, or is willing to pay, but most of the responses seem sincere. The problem that is most obvious to me, is the target price of $1000. The average hobbyist knows it takes money to produce a product, but you have to understand that it's mostly a hobby, not a necessity. (Maybe to some it's a necessity, but not most, lol.) Save the replies & pass them on to the person considering the manufacturing of the housings so it can be one of several references. You have to remember one important thing, a forum for Chargers may only have a small percentage of Charger owners represented.

I'll give you an example that's local to me in the Newburgh, NY area. Of the local Mopar owners that I know of, which number about 25 that I see at cruises & such, l am friends with or talk to 12 of them. Of the 12, only 4 of us are on line regularly, including myself & only 3 of us are on forums, 2 on this one, & 1 on a Cuda-Challenger site. If this represents any kind of percentage, it tells me that if I were to ask all of the locals who saw the poll, it would be 2 out of 25. Not a good way to conduct a marketing survey if you ask me. Car shows seem to be the best way to get word out on new products & what's needed.

Forums & the internet is an important part, but not the only part.

I never wondered why there was never a wide variety of parts available, I already know it has a lot to do with production numbers. I knew that 25 years ago when friends of mine could get brand new stuff for their Mustangs & Chevelles for a lot less money than I could for my Charger, if I could get anything at all. As far as settling for "good enough" parts, for me I look at it as a trade off. I'd rather have several nice, clean, used, original parts, than spend every penny on only one repro part & still need other things. I have several cars & have no plans to make them museum pieces, just nice drivers. I also have a house & family, so I have a makeshift budget to consider.

[OttawaCharger]

New to DodgeCharger.com, My name is Mike Ross, owner of B/E & A Restoration Parts.

Welcome aboard! 

[Troy]

Hello Mike, welcome to the site!

You kind of hit on my point earlier, I'd rather see companies make necessary/impossible to find parts vs losing money on an expensive part that they can't sell because it's available from other sources. However, at $600 that changes things a bit. That means I can get the housings, bezels, lenses, and wiring for right at $1,000 which is pretty attractive compared to rechroming the old parts. I know you guys make it out to shows so you have a bit of an advantage. I can say without a doubt that after a day of trudging through a swap meet looking at overpriced, rusty garbage (ok, not all of it) that I'd be more than happy to spend my money on a nice, shiny new part. It's all about "state of mind". Todd mentioned before about selling more parts after the show from people who see the items in person but weren't planning on buying. I think that's a good way to really judge interest and a great approach to selling parts - but you have to make them first. The guys who are impressed will go tell everyone they know. Along those lines, I'm sure you meet a lot of people at shows and probably have a good idea of what the typical customer is like and how much they can spend.

To 1hot68's point, it's not always a matter of "want". I "want" perfect parts but by the time I buy them all I'll have $75k in a car with a book value in the mid $20k range. The average guy wanting to visit local cruise-ins and take Sunday drives may only have $8-20k total in his car. When it costs $1,500 to buy new grill plastic, $800 for upper door pads, $1,000 for a console, $1,000 for taillights, $700 for gauge refinishing, $1,500 for seat covers and door panels, plus maintenance like tires, brakes, gas, and oil (I'm not even not counting paint and body work here) then they will often times settle for the best they can do at the time. That's where I am with my Barracuda - as long as it is drivable and parts aren't falling off then I just keep putting the miles on it. I've learned that when a car is moving it's a lot harder for people to pick apart the details... and my smile is bigger!

Here's something that may be interesting: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,17038.0.html

I might also add that the price of good original parts and the lack of quality reproduction parts is what drives a lot of people to forums like this - to learn how to recondition the stuff they can find without spending a fortune. If there's one underlying theme among most of the threads in our tech section it's "how to get good results on a budget". Maybe that's just the online world but, in the real world, most of the local Mopar guys I know are pretty much the "MacGuyver" type. Perhaps it's a side effect of not having anything decent to work with for the last couple of decades.

Troy

[Joshua]

- as long as it is drivable and parts aren't falling off then I just keep putting the miles on it. I've learned that when a car is moving it's a lot harder for people to pick apart the details... and my smile is bigger!

That's awesome Troy!!!! My feelings exactly!

Made some very valid points......

[dkn1997]

well, do to the respone from this poll im pretty sure these will prob. not happen come on people we all wonder why noone has a wide selection of parts for our chargers this stuff cost money to produce and in the end we get nice parts but i guess some of us just want that " good enuf " crap instead of paying something 

guy, it's a grand for a pair of tailights.  nobody's against anyone making a buck, but that's a mortgage payment for some people......for a set of tailights.    that's why there is some negativity in this thread.
The mopar crowd in general is going to hem and haw about prices for anything because we seem to be a more grassroots type group than the GM and Ford guys, plus it gets real annoying watching the chevy guys run around with dirt cheap repro parts for the last 20 years when we have gotten squat.
and there are some way overpriced items in this hobby...so when someone says "it's a grand" some of us think "here we go again"

Now that  BEAparts posted the target price, it sounds a lot more reasonable for the average guy to afford.  thanks to bea parts!!

[Dave22443]

Question for BEAPARTS:

What exactly would I get for the target price of $599-$699?  Lets be specific here, so everyone is on the same page.  In other words, if I bought your "bezels", what else, if anything, would I need to also purchase in order to have "perfect" tail lights in my '68?  And will you sell those items as well?  And if so, how much are they?

If it helps, can you provide a picture of the exact thing I would recieve for my $$$?  I know this question may sound dumb, but I want to make sure I fully understand what we're talking about here.  The price your estimating is not that far off from what I said I would pay.  I may yet be convinved to move my vote to "YES, I would buy!"

Oh and, reguardless of whatever becomes of these parts, I appreciate your coming on here and joining in on the discussion.  That in itself speaks volumes for your character and I like that.

[charge-it]

Build them, we`ll buy them!

[Troy]

Dave22443: the "bezels" are already reproduced - it's the outer "housings" that we're discussing here. The bezels are the four round, chrome, ribbed thingies that hold the taillight lenses (BEAParts already makes/sells these). The housings are what hold the whole assembly together and have a chrome outer edge with a black painted center. The lenses can be purchased from Charger Specialties as stated earlier and the wiring (if you count it - I do) can be purchased through many repro parts sellers. I think that bulbs and possibly the speed nuts might be all that's left. I'll check out my parts book at home.

Troy

[Dave22443]

Cool. Thanks for the clarification Troy.    Got any prices on those other items?

[Troy]

The bezels are already reproduced at $235+shipping...

These are the Charger Specialties units.
...

$53.95 EA

$159.95 SET 4

These are reproduction talilight lenses
for 1968 chargers. Price includes gaskets
...

Dan

YearOne carries the wiring harness for $132.00. I'm sure other places have it too.

Troy

[Charger-Bodie]

i would also like to state thate bea also makes the lenses and bezals .........if they did the housings that would meen we could get complete new t lights for 68s from 1 place

[69charger2002]

i don't think the issue here is the lack of want or need for these new pieces. the issue is flat out money. $1000 for a complete 68 taillight set up is insane. it doesn't matter if tooling costs are $995 and the manufacturer is only wanting a $5 profit. not many mopar/charger owners have that kind of spare cash for such a minor part in the big picture.  as brought up before, and as i've mentioned in long ago posts, it gets very frustrating to see camaro and mustang stuff sold new at 20% of what we pay .. my old example. 68 mustang front valance repop new $30 bucks on ebay, we pay $150. do the math, yes i'm not nieve i know about demand and the amount of mustangs compared to chargers. i am simply saying why it is so frustrating. we pay more for everything, and not many people have $100k to dump into their charger, whether it be a original 318 car or HEMI car.  i mean it would literally cost us $100,000 or more if we bought EVERY part new or repro for say a 1968 charger to restore it. that is absurd.  it is nothing against the awesome repro parts suppliers who are TRYING to help us get much needed new resto parts, i am simply speaking on behalf of what i feel would be the views of majority of charger owners. after a certain $$ amount, on any particular item.. it gets out of our price range.
trav

[Joshua]

You said it Trav........

[Charger-Bodie]

i have but 1 thing to say about people comparing camaro parts to charger repro parts ...for the most part the stuff repoped for gm cars is cheap because its crap and it came out when that far below standards were fine but we are alot more fussy about restos these days .....20 years ago a average resto was seat covers and a paint job ........thats just not where its at anymore atleast not the way i see it

[CHASWINGMAN2]

i have but 1 thing to say about people comparing camaro parts to charger repro parts ...for the most part the stuff repoped for gm cars is cheap because its crap and it came out when that far below standards were fine but we are alot more fussy about restos these days .....20 years ago a average resto was seat covers and a paint job ........thats just not where its at anymore atleast not the way i see it

What he said,  I have a customer that has a classic car dealership and he loves our stuff.  He is so sick of restoring mudstains and shovels that he could vomit.  He will buy parts from several different vendors and have to send back half of it until they get it right.  Even the simplest of parts don't fit.  The GM and Ford worlds both have top notch vendors and guess what, the parts are a little pricey.  It's the old saying "You get what you pay for".  Now, that being said, There are customers that are happy with the crappy parts because of the price, and the same really goes for the Mopar world.  I for one don't want to sell junk parts, in fact I won't.   If people shop price, they will "Get what they pay for". 

          I worked two jobs to support my family and my Mopar addiction, I ponied up for the right stuff when I could.  I'm not rich now and don't plan on hitting the lottery either (you have to play to win).   Don't anyone think that we aren't bringing you the parts at the best price possible.  We all started with nothing and have real jobs as it is.  This is not our lottery ticket, we are having fun and filling a void that has be empty for a long time.  When I go to sleep at night, I don't dream about my girlfriend (s), I dream about parts, plastics, polymers, metals, plating processes, vernier calipers, 400 ton presses, shipping charges, US customs, ebay fees, pain in the ass customers that aren't even Mopar guys etc.  Pretty much the same thing we all dream about.   Well, my #2 girlfriend just walked in, gotta run, I'll rant some more later.

[Charger Aficionado]

i have but 1 thing to say about people comparing camaro parts to charger repro parts ...for the most part the stuff repoped for gm cars is cheap because its crap and it came out when that far below standards were fine but we are alot more fussy about restos these days .....20 years ago a average resto was seat covers and a paint job ........thats just not where its at anymore atleast not the way i see it

EXCELLENT perspective.


So how do you all feel about PPR pricing '68 & '69 Grilles around $599?  I was asked to ask around.  (Keep in mind, the original price was supposed to be $750).  I think the price if fair, whatabout you all?  The product looks superb so-far in photos. 

Grille = all plastic pieces:   Center Grille, Headlamp doors, and Headlamp Door Surrounds. 

[gtx6970]

Interesting reading to say the least.

I can say that IF the part is nice, (and this applies to any part )  I would be willing to bet it will sell if priced accordingly, not over priced but fair for both the seller and the buyer.

If it's cheap looking or poor fitting , word will travel fast and it will collect nothing but dust

[Silver R/T]

well the price is expensive. This is for Charger parts not chevy. You do not see Ferrari owner complaining about $5000 to redo seat, because its high priced car to start with, quality is higher as well above your daily driver.

[dkn1997]

well the price is expensive. This is for Charger parts not chevy. You do not see Ferrari owner complaining about $5000 to redo seat, because its high priced car to start with, quality is higher as well above your daily driver.

however.....ferrari guys are not pulling cars out of barns and junkyards to restore them (I am talking about the average guy who is NOT pulling a hemi car or a superbird out of a field, just average joe pulling a 318 car from somewhere)  , so comparing them to mopar owners is apples to oranges. sure there are plenty of mopars worth more than a ferrari, but the majority of us don't own them and thus, are on some sort of budget.  there are no ferrari owners on a budget, at least not like any we are on.  and a ferrari might have better parts than my daily driver, but most old mopars do not.  plastics?  they have come a long way.  engines?  well, they are not done at 100k anymore.  bodys?  they don't rust out after 5 years anymore. 

I wish we had the choice on most parts like the chevy guys do.  there are instances,  where I would take a repro part that was not perfect for my daily driver.  the problem is that for some parts, there is only one choice and sometimes, it's too expensive. 

[Silver R/T]

you're not saying that nobody's restoring ferrari's? Restorers have to pay out big bucks for their parts also, it's not just Mopar guys.

[dkn1997]

you're not saying that nobody's restoring ferrari's? Restorers have to pay out big bucks for their parts also, it's not just Mopar guys.

I said that they were not pulling them from barns and fields to restore, not that they were not restoring them period.   they are pulling them from garages and self storages.  ferraris don't generally get used as daily transportation and disposed of like our daily driver 60's/70's mopars.  those cars were collectible when new, and thus, treated as so.  so the point is that they usually don't need the sort of resto (rust repair,etc..) that our cars do and since they have no real budget to speak of,  using them as the example of a group that does not complain about the cost of resto parts is pushing it since they are much wealthier than the average guy who posts on here.

and since I work in a business that caters to very wealthy, I am talking extremely wealthy people, I am qualified to say that Yes, in fact the ferarri guy is complaining about his 5000 dollar seat.  They go out of their way to beat my company out of 50 or 60 bucks any chance they get.

[resq302]

Troy, I absolutely agree.

Granted, I own a 69 and therefore did not vote in the poll.  I will mention that our cars have a LOT of "one year only specific" parts.  I, myself, am currently being forced to restore my trim rings as 1969 trim rings for the magnum 500 rims were year specific and no one repros them.  If someone made a "correct" repro, I would certainly have paid well over what decent originals were just to get them in pristine condition.  The upper door pads are the same thing in which I think they are way over due being reprod.  With the 68 taillights being a one year only part, that itself might hurt the project where as the check pieces for the vinyl top that are now reprod (I was hesitant at first but after hearing about the quality and then seeing them in person), I was amazed at how exact they were compared to originals.  What might have helped those pieces out was that they were used for 3 years and would have had 3 times the perspective buyers.

My opinion is if the reproduction piece is just as good as the originals, then I would not have a problem buying the reproduction pieces as the metal is newer and will probably out last the originals due to weather, workmanship back then, and such.  Probably within a year I will be looking for a new 4 speed console top plate for my Charger.  From what I have heard, the repros that are being made are basically exact to what the originals were.  Mine is starting to blister but my options are...buy a repro that will probably not blister for years or get mine replated and then chance on having it blister up in a different spot 2 months after it is redone.  (we had this exact same problem happen in our head light buckets that were white metal on our 71 Buick GS convert that we sold).  So for me, if the item will not externally look different or show any things that were not visible on original pieces, and since I will not be having the judges remove these said pieces off the car just to look for those specific items such as part numbers or the penta star, I would purchase the repros.

Just my .02.

[Charger-Bodie]

Troy, I absolutely agree.

Granted, I own a 69 and therefore did not vote in the poll.  I will mention that our cars have a LOT of "one year only specific" parts.  I, myself, am currently being forced to restore my trim rings as 1969 trim rings for the magnum 500 rims were year specific and no one repros them.  If someone made a "correct" repro, I would certainly have paid well over what decent originals were just to get them in pristine condition.  The upper door pads are the same thing in which I think they are way over due being reprod.  With the 68 taillights being a one year only part, that itself might hurt the project where as the check pieces for the vinyl top that are now reprod I was hesitant at first but after hearing about the quality and then seeing them in person, I was amazed at how exact they were compared to originals.  What might have helped those pieces out was that they were used for 3 years and would have had 3 times the perspective buyers.

My opinion is if the reproduction piece is just as good as the originals, then I would not have a problem buying the reproduction pieces as the metal is newer and will probably out last the originals due to weather, workmanship back then, and such.  Probably within a year I will be looking for a new 4 speed console top plate for my Charger.  From what I have heard, the repros that are being made are basically exact to what the originals were.  Mine is starting to blister but my options are...buy a repro that will probably not blister for years or get mine replated and then chance on having it blister up in a different spot 2 months after it is redone.  (we had this exact same problem happen in our head light buckets that were white metal on our 71 Buick GS convert that we sold).  So for me, if the item will not externally look different or show any things that were not visible on original pieces, and since I will not be having the judges remove these said pieces off the car just to look for those specific items such as part numbers or the penta star, I would purchase the repros.

Just my .02.

VERY WELL SAID!!

[bull]

I might pay close to $1,000 but only for a complete, assembled pair (bezels, housing and lenses) not for the housings alone -- at least not in the immediate to near future. If I were done with my project and everything but my taillight housings were in good shape I might consider it but that's pretty steep IMO. I'd say $600 to $700 is way more doable, as mentioned by BEAPARTS, but I would most definitely have to wait for quite some time before I could justify it. PG Classic can sell you a complete '68 console plate kit for $765 so I can't really see how/why a pair of taillight housings would match or top that. I hate the thought of our comments here being responsible for the scuttling of this project but I think it's an honest take on the reality of our lives. As dkn1997 said, we are grassroots guys trying to put together grassroots cars at Ferrari prices. Something has to give in that formula and usually it's the part we see as being over the top expense-wise.

I also don't think it's fair to use this site as your only source of information to make this decision. From what I've gathered over the years, while talking to the guys on this site, it seems there aren't too many of us with gobs of expendable income. I would imagine there are hundreds of '68 Charger owners though who do not frequent this site that have that kind of money but I don't know them or talk to them. They are the guys buying and selling Hemi Chargers and I don't see that going on here.