K-member question

[Troy]

Ok, I tried to do my research but I'm still a bit unclear. I am toying with the idea of dropping a 383 into my 73 Barracuda. The Barracuda is a 318 A/C auto with no sway bars... and it's gutless. I have a "spare" 68 383 HP that I have very little money in and ran really good when pulled (as far as I know). It only needs accessory brackets, cam, and an intake/carb to be ready to go. I also have a "spare" 440 (or two) in pieces but they will cost more than what I want to spend on this little project. I don't own any other small blocks either. So, the 383 is the best solution at this price point. I have read that the k-members are "the same for all V-8 engined cars" so the only thing I need to change for it to fit are the motor mounts and transmission. I have a 68 Charger parts car with a 383 HP (seized) and 727. My Chargers all have a sway bar. Can I use the motor mounts and K-member from my 68 Charger on a 73 Barracuda to get a big block and sway bar all in one swap? I found a listing for 1970 E-body cars that shows the same motor mount part numbers as the Charger but the K-member can't exactly be "the same" if one has sway bar mounts and the other doesn't. Will I need lower control arms or anything else to make the sway bar work or should I just skip it for now and purchase an after market bar later?

Troy

[moparguy01]

that car should have the sandwhich type motor mounts. that means go to any parts store and order the big block mounts, and drop it down. everything else should be fine.

[Troy]

Ok, but what about the sway bar?

Troy

[moparguy01]

i think the sway bar brackets are the same too. just the diameter of the bar changes.

[Troy]

After more looking...

According to the Moparts Tech Archive, there are 5 different k-frames based on year of manufacture (1962, 1963-1965, 1966-1967, 1968-69, 1970-1972). I suppose they aren't counting 1973-1974 as important? Other than the 1962 it says all should bolt up. I also know that some cars like base Satellites from 1968 did not have the sway bars either so I'm wondering if all k-members had the holes drilled but didn't have the sway bar and brackets installed? If so, that makes this whole process much easier since I can leave it all attached to the car and just bolt on a bar. I may have time to crawl under the car tomorrow after work to compare it to the Chargers. I found two sets of BB mounting brackets in my storage space tonight so maybe I should dig around in there more often.

Troy

[694spdRT]

In 1973 didn't the Charger go to what was called an Iso-K member which basically had rubber isolaters between the K member and the Uni body? It was supposed to improve ride quality and noise. I have never owned or worked on one so I don't know much else about the setup. Do you know if your Cuda has this as well? My '72 Challenger does not have the rubber isolaters but I am missing the sway bar also. I was thinking about doing a control arm swap to take care of it although the aftermarket setup would probably be easier. 

[694spdRT]

Troy

I did a quick search and this is what I found on Moparts. Maybe a K member with a sway bar would work from a Cordoba. 

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2960878&Main=2960625

Edit: Here is another thread where it didn't seem to work swapping in an older K member or sway bar in a '71 Challenger but that is a Hemi K member. Looks like the poster is Triple Green from this site as well.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2975714&Main=2973439

Maybe an aftermarket swaybar and schumacher mounts might be your best bet.

[Troy]

The Charger went to the ISO stuff but not the e-bodies. Yes, triple_green managed to find a Hemi to drop into his Challenger and Hemi k-members are unlike the other V-8 k-members throughout all years. I got an answer or two on C-C.com but it sounds a bit like using the b-body k-member just to get the sway bar would mean that I'd have to switch control arms and some other parts as well. It also sounds like the sway bar mounting holes should exist on my k-member so a swap isn't exactly necessary (don't care about using the b-body bar so much since I'll likely go with a larger one at some point).

On a related note, it seems like my 383 has "213" heads which I can't find any information about (other than they are 73+ "motor home" heads). This throws a wrench into the works since I sold my last two sets of 906 heads and a pair of 516s last summer and have no spares.

Troy

[8WHEELER]

I thought this was the K-Frame you needed for your E-Body, the skid plate came
on regular 440 magnum 4bbl cars as well starting in 71. The car with the black
underside is a 71 E-Body. Sorry I am not any help on the motor mount itself, but
as said I thought they were different starting in 73.

Dan

[Chryco Psycho]

213 were used for about 4 months between the 906 & 346

[John_Kunkel]

I've always heard that when swapping B/E body k-members after '70 there is a difference in the mounting position of the steering box and the steering column won't line up with the box.

[694spdRT]

213 were used for about 4 months between the 906 & 346

My '68 383 has different casting number heads also. I think it is the same as Troys but can't remember off the top of my head. Was there another casting between the 516 and the 906? My '68 is a later build date car and I thought the 906 ran throught the end of 1969.

[Chryco Psycho]

906 was used from 68-the end of 70 , 213 appeared somewhere in there & then the 346 started in 71
I have heard something abouyt the steering box line up between 69-70 as well

[Troy]

Ah, if I gotta screw with the steering and sway bar postition then I won't really be saving much in the way of time or money. I may have found a Cuda k-member locally so I'll see about getting that. Otherwise, I can live with the aftermarket sway bar.

So the 213 heads may be ok? I should probably start another topic on those. As far as I know, the engine ran good - but I don't know if "good" means it was a screamer or that it just didn't blow smoke and sputter all the way down the road.

Thanks!
Troy

[694spdRT]

I remember asking Chryco about my '68 heads and he said they were basically the same thing as 906's.

[firefighter3931]

On a related note, it seems like my 383 has "213" heads which I can't find any information about (other than they are 73+ "motor home" heads). This throws a wrench into the works since I sold my last two sets of 906 heads and a pair of 516s last summer and have no spares.

Troy

That info is correct....the 213 is a 73 casting, open chamber, 2.08/1.74 valves. Basicly the same as a 346 head....good to go with unleaded fuel. 


Kamkuda just installed an aftermarket swaybar on his 70 Cuda. I don't recall all the details but i think he had to weld some brackets on the lower control arms. Send him a pm.



Ron

[kamkuda]

As Ronny stated, I installed an Addco Sway Bar.  They come with tabs as seen in this pic.  You simply need to drill a hole in the lower control arms.  Wow what a difference the Sway Bar makes.

[kamkuda]

Yes, you can use the lower control arms and sway bar from your 68 on the Cuda K frame.

BTW, don't forget the radiator will be difference from small block to big block.

[firefighter3931]

BTW, don't forget the radiator will be difference from small block to big block.

That's true....but you can use a later style waterpump housing which has a passenger side lower hose outlet to make it work. The later WP housings are a dime a dozen in the junkyards. 


Ron


Ps. Nice work on the swaybar install Rob, all you need now are those frame connecters and you'll be set !   

[8WHEELER]

As Ronny stated, I installed an Addco Sway Bar.  They come with tabs as seen in this pic.  You simply need to drill a hole in the lower control arms.  Wow what a difference the Sway Bar makes.

Do you need to add there bolt on brackets if your lower control arm already has a sway bar factory mount? ''68 charger''

Dan

[firefighter3931]

As Ronny stated, I installed an Addco Sway Bar.  They come with tabs as seen in this pic.  You simply need to drill a hole in the lower control arms.  Wow what a difference the Sway Bar makes.

Do you need to add there bolt on brackets if your lower control arm already has a sway bar factory mount? ''68 charger''

Dan

Dan, the car is a 70 smallblock e-body (ragtop) that had no factory swaybar. 



Ron

[Troy]

Dan, that's the problem I have - my Barracuda has no sway bars whatsoever (the Chargers all have one). That means I'll either have to drill, weld, or find original LCAs with the tabs for this car. Bars designed for a Charger should use the factory mounting points since (I believe) they all had stock bars. Silly e-bodies...

Troy

[firefighter3931]

Dan, that's the problem I have - my Barracuda has no sway bars  That means I'll either have to drill, weld, or find original LCAs with the tabs for this car. Troy

Or....you could go with the aftermarket bar like Rob did.  Does this car have to have a factory swaybar ? 



Ron

[Troy]

Ron, put down the Keith's and pay attention... the sway bar Rob installed requires drilling holes (which I put in my list of options). You even quoted him saying that above. 

What does a drag racer know about sway bars any way?

As for factory, no. Not much will be factory on this thing if I keep it long enough. I just thought that I would use parts that I had laying around if I could. The ADDCO parts seem like a pretty good deal ($149 front or rear) but I like the way the Firm Feel rear bar is frame mounted like the original AAR equipment. Chryco stated a while back that it reduces unsprung weight as well. The rear is a whole new problem though. I am most likely installing a Doctor Diff 1" spring relocation kit which allows a b-body rear to fit BUT I'm keeping the e-body 8 3/4 (did I mention the non-factory brakes above?). Firm Feel says they can send me a bar that fits. Maybe it's the standard b-body bar but, with my luck, I'll end up with 4 different ADDCO bars before one fits that combination.

With that in mind, has anyone ever tried to fit 10 1/2 wheels in the back end of one of these? Doctor Diff says a 10" rim with 6" BS will fit with the spring relocation kit and an e-body rear. My tires are only 275 wide but the wheels I want are either 9" or 10 1/2" - no 10" available.

Dang, moving this to the chassis and suspension section now that we've completely gotten away from the motor mount question.

Troy

[firefighter3931]

What does a drag racer know about sway bars any way?

Hey, i resemble that remark !    I run a swaybar too....just take off the end links when it's "play time" 

I guess you're wanting to use up some spare parts....makes sense now. 

On your wheel question ; a buddy has a 73 cuda, stock width e-body 8.75 housing,  springs moved inboard, 15x10 (6in backspace) weld wheels with 28x10 slicks and it fits fine. He also runs the caltrac bars and oddly enough, no swaybar. 


Ron

[8WHEELER]

As Ronny stated, I installed an Addco Sway Bar.  They come with tabs as seen in this pic.  You simply need to drill a hole in the lower control arms.  Wow what a difference the Sway Bar makes.

Do you need to add there bolt on brackets if your lower control arm already has a sway bar factory mount? ''68 charger''

Dan

Dan, the car is a 70 smallblock e-body (ragtop) that had no factory swaybar. 



Ron

I got you now Troy, I am working on a project     that did not come with a front sway bar as well. So I
was trying to figure out my options, I am wanting to run the ADDCO Sway bars, 1-1/8 front 7/8 rear.

Ooops I may have to come out of the closet, all Chargers have a sway bar, this car did not come with one 
What the heck have I done 

Ron and I should stick to the race track     right Ron 

Dan

[firefighter3931]

Ron and I should stick to the race track     right Ron 

Dan

Amen, brother ! 


Ron

[kamkuda]

I saw somewhere recently that somebody is making the tabs so that you can weld them to your lower control arms.  I will see if I can find that info.  It will allow you to use your old lower control arms and weld in the tabs.

Rob

Ron, if you are putting down a Keiths, can you get one for me

[kamkuda]

Here they are


Here is the company although it is not listed on their site.  http://scarebird.com

[kamkuda]

Silly e-bodies...

Troy

Cheap Cuda's!  The car came with No sway bars, a 7 1/4 rear end all drum brakes.  I had to Upgrade everythiing!

[Steve P.]

Didn't I see some end brackets that you just pull your lower shock bolt and put it through the bracket and back into the control arm??    If not, make them...     

[kamkuda]

Just remember that Ebody sway bars go thru the K frame and Early B body goes under the Kframe.

[is_it_EVER_done?]

Troy: I don't know if this helps, but sometime back in the mid/late 70's I sold the whole drivetrain out of a 68 Hemi Charger -auto - Dana, to a guy (acquaintance) that wanted to (did) put everything into a 70 challenger.

Except for modifications to fit the rear, all the 68 stuff (engine, crossmember/sway bar, radiator, etc.) bolted right into his Challenger. I can't say for sure if he had to do any other modifications, but he had it running on the Third day, so it had to be pretty straight forward.

Like I said, I have no idea if this helps as I have never been an E-body fan so have had little experience with them, but I'm guessing you shouldn't have any real problems.