Dyno'ing the EDDY 451

[Challenger340]

Stay tuned, heads are done/flowed, 451 Engine screwed together & primed.

Frigging exhausted, we finished, and screwed, 4 engines together in the last 2 weeks since X-mas !

NEXT WEEK, dyno flogg'in !

On the 451, gonna save the flow numbers, and post with the Dyno results to "see" what happened.
Surprise, Surprise, couldn't get that "little" hole to fuck-up and go "sonic" with the 2.14 valve.
Actually, the EDDY's are a very respectable head, even for brackets.

[firefighter3931]

Surprise, Surprise, couldn't get that "little" hole to fuck-up and go "sonic" with the 2.14 valve.
Actually, the EDDY's are a very respectable head, even for brackets.

No surprise here....the RPM's are awesome heads. I've seen quite a number of cars running in the mid 9's with them ! 

I'm looking forward to the dyno thrash results. 



Ron

[OttawaCharger]

 

[RD]

 

[mikepmcs]

Pass the Pcorn

[70charger_boy]

 

[Challenger340]

Still 2 back, ran into a Oil leak on a sprint "B"  engine, aarrggghhh !  Then the barrell valve on the injector, more $%#^& !!!.

Hopefully Friday

[Challenger340]

Geez I'm pooped, getting too old for this ! Flogged 3 mills past week.

Anyways, for now, more to follow, will scan dyno sheets etc., to post later.

Little 451, makes 583 Ft/lbs Torque @ 4500 rpm, and 574 Horsepower @ 5700 rpm, "as tested"
with the "TORKER 383" Intake manifold
750 cfm Holley carb
1 7/8" headers
10.5:1 Comp. Ratio on "pump fuel", with ABSOLUTELY NO indication of any detonation(multiply plug reads on scope). I've already forgotten our "final" tune, and I just got home !

I'm VERY impressed with this little engines performance with a "relatively" small camshaft of 242 Deg @ .050 duration FLAT Tappet cam.

Whats more impressive is the fact the Torque curve from 3500 rpm starts @ 542.3 Ft/lbs, and continues above 500 Ft./lbs past 5400 ? 5600 ?
I forget already ? will check and post actual sheets later.

Little Monster !
This engine should perform well in the customers 3700 lb "B" body, 4 spd., 3.55:1 rear gear car.
On the street, "torque is KING".

Bob out.

[Challenger_7]

  Music to my ears. Waiting to see the dyno results.

You say the torque curve starts @ 3500 rpm. What is the situation at the lower end?
Does this mean you need to keep the engine revved up for optimal prformance?
What is the response like on low rpm, how sensitive will the engine response be.

From what I see, this is simply awesome

[Challenger340]

I'll try to get the sheets up for tomorrow, not going in today.

Negative on having to keep the rpm "up", Cam comes in around 2000, didn't pull it hard down there, but well over 400 ft/lbs.

Bob out.

[Challenger_7]

Coming in at 2000 rpm is not too far? That is more than one third the total rpm, or so to speak.

What I mean, if you are neck to neck with someone looking for a challenge, he will be on his way before you hit the 2000 rpm range?
Am I mistaken in this analysis?

If I am right, can you bring the power to a lower rpm?

[Challenger340]

Sorry challenger_7 but I'm not understanding your question ?

Are you an automatic car ? or 4 gear ?  Cam range affects the power band, this particular cam makes GOOD power from around 2500-5500, and what I'd call "OK" power 500 rpm either way, up or down from that range. (2000-6000)

That make any sense ?  The powerband is NOT like a light switch, ON or OFF, but rather gradual to "best" range. It's definately NOT DEAD down low, just much better in those numbers as mentioned.

If you were running an auto car, I'd rec'd a 3000 stall convertor.

4 spd., well, don't worry, just pop the clutch and pray for traction !

[firefighter3931]

I'm VERY impressed with this little engines performance with a "relatively" small camshaft of 242 Deg @ .050 duration FLAT Tappet cam.

Whats more impressive is the fact the Torque curve from 3500 rpm starts @ 542.3 Ft/lbs, and continues above 500 Ft./lbs past 5400 ? 5600 ?
I forget already ? will check and post actual sheets later.

Little Monster !
This engine should perform well in the customers 3700 lb "B" body, 4 spd., 3.55:1 rear gear car.
On the street, "torque is KING".

Bob out.

Nice work Bob  I'm sure the customer is gonna be quite happy with those results ! Those old torker single planes work pretty good huh  I've allways liked them on milder street/strip builds....those dyno numbers show how well they work...even with a set of ported aluminum heads. 


Looking forward to the dyno sheets. How were the VE #'s ? How much cfm at peak HP ?


Thanks, Ron

[Challenger_7]

Ok let me explain, and please bear with me that I am no expert in this, and trying hard to "latch on"

I have been trying to read as much as I have time for, and researching kits that I can find on the web, mainly for 2 reasons:
1. To try and figure out what you gurus are talking about
2. To come to a decision on what to buy for my 71 Challenger 400 block.

Now, in one kit offer, they mention that power surges right from 1000 rpm and as such makes the engine respond very quickl.
Obviously, I have no access to any of their figures and as such do not know really what claim are they making.
So going by this, and what you are saying, I just wondered how sensitive the engine will be to power demands when you are on low rpm.

I have recently purchased a 72 ss camaro 350, which has received a kit through the previous owner. It is automatic, and when I hit my foot down, it reacts very slowly until a higher rpm is reached (Ihave not observed yet at what rpm, but more like around 2000).
To me this is not satisfactory because if you are in a stopped position and someone decides to challenge you, he will have a serious edge over you.

Ok granted as you say, in my "Challenger's" case, I have a manual drive and can kick in additional rpm. But would you advise I buy a kit that does have a lower rpm range, or will that sacrifice other issues??

Hope I explained myself?

Thanks

[defiance]

Basically, torque will be a 'curve' on ANY engine, but when determining what kind of build you want, you get to choose where it will "peak".

So, for example, a low RPM motor might peak at 3500RPM, where a high RPM motor might peak at 5000RPM.  I can't think of any I've seen at lower RPMs than 2500-3000.

Anyway, by bringing the peak down, you bring torque up everywhere below the peak.  So, if it's 500 at 3500, maybe 400 at 2000.  whatever.  Anyway, if you raise the peak, it may now be 550 at 5000, 450 at 3500, 350 at 2000.  So, you've increased total torque, but moved it into a higher RPM range - great for the track, bad for the street.

Anyway, my point is, ANY car's torque drops off below the RPM peak, so the other car would suffer the same consequences if for some reason they both had to take off from that RPM.

However, in a standard, you'll rev before releasing the clutch, and in an auto, the torque converter will let the revs come up when you gun it.  Either way, when you come off the line, even on a mild aftermarket converter, you're over 2k RPM.  Stock I'm not sure what RPM they usually flash up to, but I'd think it would be 1500-2000?

For your camaro, maybe it needs a higher stall converter?  That's the most common way to bring the engine closer to its peak when coming off the line.

When you say "kit", do you mean engine build, transmission/torque converter? etc?  Not sure I'm following there

[Challenger_7]

Hey Defiance, nice to meet you and thanks for chipping in.

Your explanation is baasic enough for my "basic" brain to understand and thus believe that what Challenger340 has done should be more than adequate for my Challenger.
As for the Camaro, I understand from the previous owner that he installed a new crank/cam and dished pistons. The car lost its brakes (need to buy a collection tank) and is very sluggish on take off. Once it picks up it feels and sounds good. The car had a few snags to it and I kept returning it for sorting out and as such I have not driven it long enough to observe rpm.
However, the owner insists that the current carb is far too small for it and that I need a bigger one to see the difference. So till I install a new carb, I will not know for sure.
When you say higher stall converter, does that mean it needs more rpm before it kicks in?

[defiance]

Exactly.  A good stall converter will keep the RPMs a bit higher without feeling too 'jerky'.  You might lose fuel mileage on the downside, depending on your engine build.  Too low and you get sluggish low end because the engine is operating outside of its optimal range, too high and you start slipping in cruise, and easy takeoffs get difficult.  Keep in mind my understanding is pretty basic, too, but that's the general idea

574/583 and very little upper torque drop, sounds like a really sweet setup.  These are Eddy Performer RPM heads, right?  How much porting has been done on them?

[Challenger340]

Defiance

Check out here for the portwork on the EDDY's used on this 451.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,21828.0.html

Challenger_7

A Performance stall convertor, should be a consideration for purchase, and INCLUDED, of ANY engine build contemplated, in order to "compliment" that particular engines Torque & Power curve.

What I'm saying here is, ANYTIME you build an engine, you have to look at the "entire combo" to be used, NOT just the engine.
Match the engine, trans & Torque Convertor(if auto), rear gear ratio & tire diameter, EVERYTHING to get the optimal results.

Hope I'm making sense here, I'm not trying to cloud the issue.
Your builder will be a valuable resource in this area, as well as many on here, Ron, "Firefighter3931", being one of the best I've ever seen from a "practical experience" of "what works" standpoint.

Bob out.

[Runner]

nice work bob.     whats the specs on the cam?   where did the timing seem the happest at?.

[Challenger340]

nice work bob.     whats the specs on the cam?   where did the timing seem the happest at?.

Thanks Runner;
Timing was "happy", pretty much anywhere between 32 and 37, didn't make much difference to Torque at all, +/-  5 ft/lbs.  Timing only seemed to affect Horsepower, as per the fuel jetting we applied, +/- 15-20.
Because of a lack of dyno time, (running out), and the inability time-wise to re-curve the "bone stock", vintage, Dodge distributor, we finally set it up @ 34 deg., (with the restrictive Airfilter installed), and lost 5 Horsepower to 569 & Torque @ 583 ft/lbs.

This engine runs cool on the pump gas at ANY timing, with NO evidence whatsoever, of ANY detonation at all, during multiple plug reads on the scope, with the 10.5:1 Comp. Raio on the EDDY aluminum heads. Very SWEET deal  !

I'll get the specs on the engine, and resultant dyno sheets, scanned, and posted soon over here;

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,23544.0.html

[Mefirst]

-Nice power numbers... I would predict some mid 11 sec times on the 1/4 mile with a good hook...

/Tom

[Challenger_7]

Challenger_7

What I'm saying here is, ANYTIME you build an engine, you have to look at the "entire combo" to be used, NOT just the engine.
Match the engine, trans & Torque Convertor(if auto), rear gear ratio & tire diameter, EVERYTHING to get the optimal results.

Bob out.

Thanks Bob, and yes fully understood. The more I read you Gurrus the more I am feeling comfortable with what goes on, and getting it clearer to my mind what I will end up doing with my various issues. Thanks

[Challenger_7]

Challenger 340
Hi again, one more question for my Camaro 350 SS, seeing you have had experience with the small blocks too, what size carb should I order for it. 650 is ok or too big? Just to refresh your memory on this, it has received a crank/cam kit with dished pistons, but I do not know the details.

Thanks

[Challenger340]

Better late than never, here's the dyno sheets.

[OttawaCharger]

   Who says the B block can't make any power? 
This gives me ideas for a 431 build-up out of my stock 383. 

[Challenger340]

Just an "update".
This things driven the route66 in California, from Alberta Canada, and back,
as well as numerous street flogg'ins,
etc.
etc.

pump fuel, CHEAP & EASY.

Healthy respect for this little combo, and it makes power like a "Big Incher", RELIABLY !

[firefighter3931]

Now that's an endurance test.....bet your customer is a very happy camper. 

Just an "update".
This things driven the route66 in California, from Alberta Canada, and back,
as well as numerous street flogg'ins,

You can't ask for more than that 


Ron

[Challenger340]

Just heard from the 451 owner, Says "he went flogg'in at the track".

Calgary track @ 4200 ft elevation(good day).
'69 Runner, full weight, exhaust, everything works, all steel.
833 4 spd,
Pump Premium
355 rear gears

Crappy 60 ft @ 2.2 sec blowing the tires off, but still managed a 12.6 and 110 mph. (thats 12.2 @ sea level)
Attaboy Jimbo !
NOT BAD 

Methinks with an auto & 3500 stall, 4.10 cogs / Slicks, the thing should manage mid 11's closer to sea level.

[firefighter3931]

Nice.....it's making great power given the elevation. 

Just imagine if he could 60ft in the 1.6-1.7 range....solid mid 11 combo for sure. 



Ron