To clone or not to clone?

[Harlow]

I can't make up my mind so I thought I'd see what some of your opinions are. I have a 68 Sport Satellite, H code 383 car, lots of good options. The car is cool but there is just one problem. No one outside of the mopar world knows/has ever heard of it. I know it shouldn't matter but It gets to me having to explain to them,"It looks just like a GTX" or "its a price grade under the GTX". Anyone ever have similar problems? So I've been thinking about doing a clone to a GTX. Or maybe I should just build it to be a bad a$$ sport satellite and make it a perfectly respectable "hot rod". I'm not sure so I was hoping for some input. I know it shouldn't matter what people think, and I've always been a fan of guys that built their car their way and not caring about going 100% stock, but I can't decide on what to do. I want the car to be a driver, driven almost everyday so its probably good I don't have a high dollar rare car, with this sport satellite I can get rid of/modify some stock components without feeling I'm ruining a piece of history. For some pictures/info on the car heres my cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2535072

[1970 Charger 500]

Is it #'s matching?
If so, I would restore it to original and not worry about having to explain it to people.
I have a '70 Charger 500, #'s matching 383 with little rare original options and I go to shows with 70charginglizard who has a '70 Charger R/T, SE CLONE.  I have to continuosly explain what a 500 is. EVERYBODY likes and wants the R/T much more than a 500. I am proud of my "lesser" 500.
Also, If you clone it, your explaining will not stop. Kelly has to always say, "it's a clone" to everyone who talks to him about the car. Don't get me wrong, Kelly's car is BEAUTIFUL and a completely well done "tribute car".
So, either restore it to stock and explain what it is or clone it and explain that.

[Harlow]

yeah its #'s matching. Just start telling people the 500 refers to the engine size...

[Old Moparz]

Hey there, welcome to the site. The car looks like a decent & solid base to work with, & fairly complete. I've never been a fan of re-badging a car to appear as another model, so I'd say leave it as a Sport Satellite. (Money says that's more rare these days anyway.) My interest has always been in the body style more than the nameplate, or the package on the vehicle. The most I would do would be to eliminate the nameplates on it, & not place the GTX name on.

I'd much rather have a car that has more mods to it to suit my own tastes than worry about whether the misinformed know what it is. Chances are they aren't really Mopar enthusiasts to begin with, & it won't matter if it's a GTX or a Satellite after you pull away. People sometimes ask me if my Satellite convertible is a Road Runner & all I say is that it's just another Plymouth built on the same platform. That seems to satisfy 99% of those who ask based on the way they nod their heads.

I also have a '71 Scamp. You should see the look on faces when I say Scamp, it's comical. My answer to them is simply "It's Dodge's version of the Dart" & they seem to understand. The thing about re-badging it as a GTX is, you'll still have the VIN for the Sport Satellite & the hardcore numbers people will roll their eyes at it. What it comes down to is what you prefer to do. That doesn't mean I would condone a VIN tag swap, that's the worst thing to ever consider.

Now at the risk of contradicting myself, my Charger is a slightly different story. It's a '68 that was a 383-2V car, but it'll have a nose cone & a wing on it when I'm done. I'm probably not doing certain mods like the window plug, wind deflectors on the front pillars, & maybe a few other things, so I'm not trying to pass it off as a Daytona. I may end up leaving the '68 Tail panel on it, & might only paint a tail stripe without the Daytona lettering as well. Sure, there'll be lots of unknowing people asking if it's stock or real, but my answer would be only that I added Daytona Charger parts to a regular Charger.

[kab69440]

I also have a '71 Scamp. You should see the look on faces when I say Scamp, it's comical. My answer to them is simply "It's Dodge's version of the Dart" & they seem to understand.

Plymouth's version of the Dart?

[chargerboy69]

If I had your numbers matching car, I would not. I did clone my regular Charger into a R/T clone. But my original engine was gone long ago.

[70charginglizard]

I can't make up my mind so I thought I'd see what some of your opinions are. I have a 68 Sport Satellite, H code 383 car, lots of good options. The car is cool but there is just one problem. No one outside of the mopar world knows/has ever heard of it. I know it shouldn't matter but It gets to me having to explain to them,"It looks just like a GTX" or "its a price grade under the GTX". Anyone ever have similar problems? So I've been thinking about doing a clone to a GTX. Or maybe I should just build it to be a bad a$$ sport satellite and make it a perfectly respectable "hot rod". I'm not sure so I was hoping for some input. I know it shouldn't matter what people think, and I've always been a fan of guys that built their car their way and not caring about going 100% stock, but I can't decide on what to do. I want the car to be a driver, driven almost everyday so its probably good I don't have a high dollar rare car, with this sport satellite I can get rid of/modify some stock components without feeling I'm ruining a piece of history. For some pictures/info on the car heres my cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2535072

I'd say if your planning on driving it all the time I'd keep it stock and not go the clone route. Unless your going to be sitting by it babysitting it when it's parked somewhere. The risk of someone seeing it as a high dollar GTX (clone or not) or a Sport Satellite could be a determining factor as to wether there going to bother ripping it off from a parking lot if no ones watching.

Something to think about.

As Tony said. I love my Cloned Charger R/T but it's rarely ever out of my site. 

[PocketThunder]

Harlow i wouldnt change a thing.  Not even the color.  Get it restored to original condition and buy some 17" rims and tires () and that will be one sweet ride.   

[blackcharger]

the simple fact that no one outside of the mopar world knows what it is screams "leave it be"
not a thing wrong with a Sport Sat. Fine cars.

[PocketThunder]

Go to this guys website to see a sister to your car.  Click on this links to see what your car will look like in white when finished.

http://www.wolfmarksden.com/68plym.shtml

[blackcharger]

Harlow i wouldnt change a thing.  Not even the color.  Get it restored to original condition and buy some 17" rims and tires () and that will be one sweet ride.   

was making sense till you added the bling wheels

[PocketThunder]

Harlow i wouldnt change a thing.  Not even the color.  Get it restored to original condition and buy some 17" rims and tires () and that will be one sweet ride.   

was making sense till you added the bling wheels

[Harlow]

Go to this guys website to see a sister to your car.  Click on this links to see what your car will look like in white when finished.

http://www.wolfmarksden.com/68plym.shtml

Sweet. Too bad mine has the 383 super commando

[Old Moparz]

Plymouth's version of the Dart?

  Yeah, Plymouth took the Dart body & put the Duster nose on it & sold it as a Scamp, while Dodge put the Dart nose on the Duster body & called it the Demon. (Later it was the Dart Sport.) The funny part about it, is that the side marker lights on the Duster & Darts are different, so the fronts & rears on the Scamps & Demons don't match.

(Here's my Scamp)

[41husk]

It's your car!  What do you want?  If you always wanted a GTX clone it, if you really don't care just make it a hot rod and save some money on decals and emblems.

[plum500]

Harlow i wouldnt change a thing.  Not even the color.  Get it restored to original condition and buy some 17" rims and tires () and that will be one sweet ride.   

was making sense till you added the bling wheels

17" implies bling??

Either way you're gonna be explaining, and it is what it is -- even if you clone it, you know what it started as.

Awesome ride to start with - rod'er up!

[Harlow]

I think I feel a lot better about it. I'm going to bring it back looking stock (I want to put a bulge hood on though. A guy I know has a buddy who may have one for me). I want to go with something sinister like black or maybe a dark gunmetal color (I think its winchester gray), but I'm still not sure yet. The engine had some performance stuff done to it about 10 years ago so I shouldn't have to sink much money into the engine to get it how I want. The car has the heavy duty suspension package with a factory sway bar, so it should be a nice ride and I'm going to add some front disc brakes, but leave them manual (anyone done this?) Do any of you guys drive your cars almost everyday? If so I want to see some of them. Thanks for the encouragement guys!

[Dave22443]

Harlow,

  I've got a '68 Charger R/T "tribute" car.  I don't call it a clone because that referes to an exact replica.  I was perfectly happy having it as a regular Charger, but the public comments seemed to demand that it be an R/T or somehow it didnt count as a Charger.    Now that I added the R/T stripe and badging I get a lot more interest in the car at shows but have to put up with the Mopar informed people pointing out that its not a "Real" R/T.  I'm thinking about putting the regular badges back on but leaving the stripe and see what kind of reaction that causes 

  I am also working on a 1970 Satellite Sport for my son.  It's strickly a budget build and is a low optioned 318 car.  With this car, I'm doing whatever I want.  I've removed all the side body trim and filled all the holes.  I've removed all of the emblems and badges with the exception of the pentastar on the fender and the Plymouth call outs on the tail and grill.  The word Satellite appears nowhere on it, but neither does GTX, Roadrunner or anything else.  It's just a Plymouth.  I have added Roadrunner tail lights and a go-wing out back (because I think they compliment the car) and on the flat hood, I'm adding a pair of A-body scoops like I had on my old 340 Dart.  If anyone asks, I'll just say its a customized Sport Satellite and leave it at that.

  Oh, and on your disk brake conversion question, my answer is yes.  I converted my non-power brakes to disk up front but left them manual.  It was cheaper, it still works well and I don't have to worry about adding a vacumm canister should I go with a really hot cam later down the road.  In my opinion, non-power disk brakes work just fine.  The big question is going to be when I upgrade to 4-wheel, 4-piston disks.  I might have to add power then, but I'm going to try it without it first.

  I don't drive the Charger every day (they won't let me drive it to work with vintage plates) but I do plan to drive the Satellite pretty regularly (with the 318 still under the hood).  Otherwise, I drive the Charger whenever the weather is nice.

-d.

[ChargerSG]

I would paint it in original color, and paint a bulge hood to, so can you make it hotroded some but have the option to put it stock if you want. Personelly i would have restord it to total stock but thats me

[Joshua]

It's your car!  What do you want?  If you always wanted a GTX clone it, if you really don't care just make it a hot rod and save some money on decals and emblems.

If you want a GTX....get a GTX......clones only fool the public, but you'll always KNOW it's a FAKE.........there is no shame in having a nice Satellite. Who cares what the "public" thinks anway.....look what they're drivin'! 

[bull]

If your motivation for cloning it is that you are tired of telling people it's a Satellite, I'd find a better motivation or leave it alone. Better yet, just leave it alone.

[tan top]

it is up to you dude it is your ride  but... i would restore it as  as the factory intended a 68 sport satellite  . good luck  with the project  what ever you decide.

[MichaelRW]

First, I'll say you should do whatever you want to do with your car as it pleases you. Having said that.......I would not clone it. Modify it, yes. Clone it, no.

My opinion on this whole clone, tribute, impersonator, and downright fakes has evolved as the hobby has evolved. Now I might get some heat for this. At one time I was more accepting of these types of cars but at the end of the day a fake is still a fake. How does a fake Cuda hemi convertible clone warrant HUGE dollars over an equally nicely restored original 318 or 340? It simply doesn't. But, of course, it happens all the time because of the more money than brains syndrome. This syndrome is extremely contagious and spreads like wild fire especially in Scotsdale, AZ every January. Tribute car? That's a weasel word. I can understand using the word tribute if you finish restoring the car your dad was restoring and he happened to expire during the process. You know, a tribute to dad. But these tribute cars at BJ are being sold before the paint is even dry. The only tribute is to some guy's wallet. It's still a fake. And then some guy 2 owners from now will take it in the shorts because now the car is "real".

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

[Dave22443]

(steps up to the soap box)

Mike,

I don't consider myself to be a weasel because I call my car a tribute car.  I am a man of modest means with a modest budget.  I have a wife and two kids.  And I still manage to have a car that most people would kill to have. (figuratively speaking)  I manage my hobby through direct deposit.  Every payday (which is twice a month) I put away $100.00 into my "car fund".  This money goes to support my hobby and by doing this I am basically making a $200 per month car payment.  As time goes on, the car gets better and better, but it does it slowly.

I consider it a "tribute" car for several reasons.

1) Its NOT an exact replica, so therefor it is not a clone.
2) It IS a tribute to the real R/T's I'll likely never be able to afford.
3) It IS my car and thats the way I (currently) want it.
4) I have NO INTENTION of EVER selling it, so I'm not a Barret Jackson whore.

Of course, I know your rant was not directed at me personally, but I wanted to get that off my chest.  I now turn over the soap box to the next interested party.

[MichaelRW]

(steps up to the soap box)

Mike,

I don't consider myself to be a weasel because I call my car a tribute car.  I am a man of modest means with a modest budget.  I have a wife and two kids.  And I still manage to have a car that most people would kill to have. (figuratively speaking)  I manage my hobby through direct deposit.  Every payday (which is twice a month) I put away $100.00 into my "car fund".  This money goes to support my hobby and by doing this I am basically making a $200 per month car payment.  As time goes on, the car gets better and better, but it does it slowly.

I consider it a "tribute" car for several reasons.

1) Its NOT an exact replica, so therefor it is not a clone.
2) It IS a tribute to the real R/T's I'll likely never be able to afford.
3) It IS my car and thats the way I (currently) want it.
4) I have NO INTENTION of EVER selling it, so I'm not a Barret Jackson whore.

Of course, I know your rant was not directed at me personally, but I wanted to get that off my chest.  I now turn over the soap box to the next interested party.

As you noted, I was not referring to you at all. No offense intended. I'm talking about the guy(s) that use the term to try to make the cloned car sound better than it really is when they are selling it. I wonder who coined the term tribute car to begin with. The first time I heard the term was during the BJ auction so I'm fairly certain it could have been one of the promoters that thought that up to make fakes sound much better.

[rt green]

clone it to a gtx, and always have something on the dash to cover up the vin!  let the ass pickers go nuts. now, that would be fun. tell em, you dont know what it is, and stay out of my car.

[dkn1997]

clone it to a roadrunner.  get a six pak hood...sure it's year off, but still cool!!  or just leave it stock, either way is good.

I made my charger an r/t.  visually, I did it because the stripe looks cool.  also all of my emblems were crap and the r/t don't really cost much more, so why not?  under the hood, the reason I made the swap should be self explanatory...

[Harlow]

clone it to a roadrunner.  get a six pak hood...sure it's year off, but still cool!!  or just leave it stock, either way is good.

I made my charger an r/t.  visually, I did it because the stripe looks cool.  also all of my emblems were crap and the r/t don't really cost much more, so why not?  under the hood, the reason I made the swap should be self explanatory...

Why road runner? I figured if I did do a clone it would be to a GTX because the sport satellite is basically a GTX with different emblems (same grill/trim). Although if I did a RR clone I wouldn't need to change the engine to make it "correct". I'm pretty much sure I'm going to leave it a sport satellite and make some mods and put some kind of hood one it (I'm thinkin' bulge).

[dkn1997]

because nothing says "I am open for busniness, baby!!" like steelies and a huge honkin hood scoop!!

I never liked any year gtx, too much molding, too much fluff for me.

[dkn1997]

sure the year is wrong and someone has thrown weld draglites on it, but you get the idea

[Harlow]

That road runner looks pretty good. I can see another positive to a six pack hood. Its probably much cheaper than buying a bulge hood.

[MOPARHOUND!]

A guy in our car club cloned a 68 Sport Satellite to a 68 GTX and wishes he hadn't. 

The general public doesn't know what it is, "is that like a GTO"??  He says "like a Road Runner", and the majority are familiar with what a Road Runner is. 

He painted it black, tinted the windows, bolted in a 440, and put a hinged 69-1/2 Six Barrel hood on it, looks sharp.  However, he said if he had to do it over again, he would make it a Road Runner.

Myself, I would leave it a Sport Satellite.  I think they are somewhat rare to see at shows, and are refreshing to see something different.  There is a 69 Sport Satellite in the barn, 383-4v/Auto, and it will always be a Sport Satellite.

[Harlow]

Anyone have any pictures of some sport satellites that look a little less stock. I have only seen a few that were roded up. I'd like to see some that aren't so grandma looking.

[dkn1997]

I would bet that about the same number of people know what a GTX is as those who know what a Satellite is.  at least with a roadrunner, they would at least know the cartoon....

[1972cuda]

I just put the car together the way I would have done 30 years ago. If I had been around that is!
I found a 68 Sport Sattelite that was reasonable. Built a 440, put on a six barrel. Added a lift off hood. Changed the four speed shifter to a pistol grip. I have some decent sized tires mounted on cop car wheels mounted to 3.91 sure grip.
It makes me happy even though it is nowheres near correct or a show car.
But it is another Mopar on the road.
Just as long as the car makes the person behind the wheel happy is all that matters.

[Dave22443]

 

[dkn1997]

I just put the car together the way I would have done 30 years ago. If I had been around that is!
I found a 68 Sport Sattelite that was reasonable. Built a 440, put on a six barrel. Added a lift off hood. Changed the four speed shifter to a pistol grip. I have some decent sized tires mounted on cop car wheels mounted to 3.91 sure grip.
It makes me happy even though it is nowheres near correct or a show car.
But it is another Mopar on the road.
Just as long as the car makes the person behind the wheel happy is all that matters.

now that's what I'm talkin' about!!!!!  scaring the general public you share the road with.....I love it!!

[bookedbydano]

Take a # matching R/T 440 restored to original specs vs. a plain charger restored with performance suspension, tires, all the goody upgrades and fitted with a 426 Hemi selling for about the same I would take the Hemi clone hands down.  The driveability is so much better and most people non moparist couldn't care less if the # match or not.  I know the overall worth is not supposed to be as good but what I have seen in the markets is people want the horsepower, handling and modern tech  in a Muscle car.  IF someone thinks that their car is better because of some vin # well then thats a shame.  Build the car that you dream of.....you only live once, don't let vin# and fender tags curb you decision on what to do with a car.  Don't let value vs. hurting value make your decision.  Can't take it when you die......