Old Style Paint....Why Not?

[Carl1]

My question is with these correct as you can get em restorations, why not use the paint like it was in '69? Are they not available, or are there other reasons?

[dreamcatcher]

Most all of the older paints are no longer available due to EPA standards.

[moparguy01]

you can still get them in some states. but they get spendy.

[jaak]

I think the formulas are different, you can still buy acrylic enamel, but its a different formula than in the ol' days, due to EPA. I read an article Roger Gibson once wrote on painting cars... he said to imitate the original finish he thinned down urethane paint thinner than suggested and put on numerous thin coats, and that created the original look with orange peel and all. I'm not gonna do mine concours so I will probaby wet sand and buff after mine is painted to get it super slick... But if your looking for a Correct finish, then Gibsons way is an option.

Jason

[Ghoste]

For that matter, I think some restorers do use the old laquers and acrylic enamels but for the most part, modern paints are easier to work with and retain their appearance better.

[Carl1]

Thanks for the input. Any info on where I can find "old stock" or would it just be a solid lump by now?

[Ghoste]

Are you sure you want the old stuff?

[hemi-hampton]

Buy some Dupont Centari Acrylic Enamel. If your doing a metallic car though this is something you do not want to heavy duty rub so it better be pretty clean first time around with no sags or heavy orange peel & you got to be experianced to spray a nice wet single stage metallic with no zebra strips or mottling. Have Fun. LEON.

[Carl1]

Ghoste, My point in asking is to get input from folks who know, then I would make a decision which way to proceed. The people actually doing the work are experienced, so degree of difficulty is not really a consideration. Is the judging at the shows adjusted to accept a deep super shiny beautiful paint job as normal? Again, the thoughts of people who know is appreciated.

[dreamcatcher]

I do my own painting and I show my cars.I have done well but most judges look more at propper color than paint type.Cars from the mid 60's and earlier were lacquers and when waxed or buffed looked as good as any base coat clear coat.But the most important thing is getting the color right.

[bill440rt]

Ghoste, My point in asking is to get input from folks who know, then I would make a decision which way to proceed. The people actually doing the work are experienced, so degree of difficulty is not really a consideration. Is the judging at the shows adjusted to accept a deep super shiny beautiful paint job as normal? Again, the thoughts of people who know is appreciated.

Carl1,
The topic/question of paint can be answered in what type of car you're building. What is "acceptable" at shows, depends on the TYPE of show you're attending. The majority of smaller, local, or even large cutom/hot rod shows all look for the "Ooooh-Aaaaah" factor. A bright and shiny buffed jewel is gonna get more attention than an orange peeled, dull "correctly painted" car. But, this is an answer that should really be obvious.

The straight single stage acrylic enamels of yesterday are now outdated, superceded by urethanes and base/clears. I'd take those over any lacquer crap paint anyday, you'd get the same results with a spray bomb & a rag with compound. Why spend the bucks on a paint job that's gonna crack 5 years later??

As some members have replied, you can still get acrylic enamels today, DuPont Centari is one line of them. There are others from PPG, etc. I'd stick with tried & trusted paint brands, such as DuPont & PPG. If you are doing an over-restored show poodle, or even one that's gonna see driving duty, I'd stick with a more durable base/clear paint job. I've found the colors from PPG are the best, color-wise. Mopars were originally painted with Ditzler, which is known as PPG today. DuPont is close, but not exact like PPG. And, I sometimes prefer spraying DuPont. But, PPG is the most correct color-wise. If you're going for OE Certification, then maybe an orange-peely paint job is better. My '70 is slick like glass with a PPG base/clear paint job, but I still scored very well in the OE Certification. Car does extremely well at AACA sanctioned shows, too. Most, if not all, of these OE cars are sanded & buffed SOMEWHAT.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Just keep in mind the kind of car you're building, and go from there. Personally, I'd rather see a nice buffed paint job than these dull grapefruits that are out there.

PS- Do NOT use any paint that has been sitting on a shelf longer than 2 years or so. This stuff does have a shelf life. For a new paint job, use new materials. I save the older stuff for small projects & parts.

[Carl1]

Thanks for the input guys. I will check with the restoration shop to see if they intend on using the PPG to achieve the beautiful F8. The car will be as correct as I can get it, what kinds of things will hurt the most in judging? The aftermarket shocks, or a cleared over glass beaded drive shaft? Any insights or observations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Carl

[Ghoste]

I would guess the shocks but it also depends a where you plan to show it.  If you are planning to show it in the Chrysler Classic events or the get the gold at the Mopar Nats, it may be worth your while to look into the points system being set up.
Damn, now I can't recall the name of the group or the link that was establishing these new guidelines.  Someone else have it?  In any case Carl, they were supposed to be getting binders ready with all the judging criteria for different cars similar to the standards the Vette guys have used for a long time.

[Carl1]

Thanks Ghoste, I guess which shows I'll go to will depend on how it all turns out. The judging guidelines would be great to have. I have no experience with official type shows, I had a car that was judged at Carlisle, that came with the judging sheet and it only showed categories like interior, paint, etc. not what the judge was looking for. Any insight on the criteria would be appreciated.

[Ghoste]

Found the link.  I don't know how well this is set up yet but it looks like it's close to ready.  It's the International Chrysler Collector Authority.  Here is the tentative shcedule they have posted.  I don't know what they are using at the Mopar Nationals.

Tentative 2007 Schedule of attendance
Barrett- Jackson , Scottsdale, AZ
Mopars on the Strip, Las Vegas, NV.
Spring Fling , Van Nuys, CA.
Most of the Chrysler Classic Events

Here is the link

http://www.icca.home.org/

[Carl1]

Thanks for the effort Ghoste. I can't access it at the moment, maybe they're working on it.

[Ghoste]

I can't seem to bring it up now either.  It was working when I got the link and schedule....??

[dads_69]

Back when our cars were painted, they had lead in the paint material. Not anymore though. You can get the same paint code for your car in the same brand of paint though. Its also in how it was done from factory compared to now. If a guy uses a non HVLP gun, then it will look more correct vs. base clear. I've sprayed cars with my old JGA 402 and 502 paint gun for correct style texture. Its not easy to make it look peely either like the factory did. To be continuous isn't easy for a factory look. Its going to take an experienced painter to do the job. But also, why would you want to look like factory vs. what is available today?
Mark

[bull]

IMO some things should be updated and paint is one of them.